International Airlines Threaten To Boycott Thailand

[CHAIYES]

QUOTE(Phil Conners @ 2007-02-17 16:15:07) And btw, Axel, Spore is still only an hour and a half away, even if they are in a different timezone

Thanks Phil, I am regularly on either CX or TG. 2 hrs 20 min. Who is faster?

CX712 SIN 13:50 BKK 15:10 02:20 hrs

Thai Airways Intl (TG 404)

dep: 12:25 - Singapore (SIN) terminal 1

arr: 13:45 - Bangkok (BKK) terminal

BKK-SIN flight time is definetly 2hrs 20mins..!(takeoff to landing by stopwatch)

Because of the one(1) hour time difference between singapore & thailand, you "lose" an hour travelling eastbound, and "gain" an hour travelling west, (in respective local times).

[robenroute]

The reason why nothing gets ever done properly in this country is this culture of "KRENG JAI" (hey, even 2 major universities here in Thailand have written reports on this perpetual hindrance of progress). It's all fine and dandy to take other people's position in to account/consideration, but it should never stand in the way of national progress. Then again, that's the nail on the proverbial head, I guess: not a soul in this, or any other Thai government from the past for that matter, has ever been interested in anything but his/her own pockets. Keep the people uneducated and maintain and control situations that cause fear and confusion (South, border with Burma, disappearing of pro-democracy people, etc.) and you're set for a comfy ride into wealth.................

[Pattaya_Fox]

QUOTE(Phil Conners @ 2007-02-17 16:15:07) And btw, Axel, Spore is still only an hour and a half away, even if they are in a different timezone

Thanks Phil, I am regularly on either CX or TG. 2 hrs 20 min. Who is faster?

CX712 SIN 13:50 BKK 15:10 02:20 hrs

Thai Airways Intl (TG 404)

dep: 12:25 - Singapore (SIN) terminal 1

arr: 13:45 - Bangkok (BKK) terminal

BKK-SIN flight time is definetly 2hrs 20mins..!(takeoff to landing by stopwatch)

Because of the one(1) hour time difference between singapore & thailand, you "lose" an hour travelling eastbound, and "gain" an hour travelling west, (in respective local times).

Next time I`m going Sing to BKK I`ll def book a flight on Phils Airways to get me there 50 mins sooner.

Do you land at Don Muang or the new one Phil?

[wiki256]

I don't think they are going to use Don Muang as #2 airport. It doesn't seem very reasonable. They tried all the persuading tricks, but none has worked. Instead, they are just wounding themselves and Thailand as a whole. No one cares enough to travel to Thailand anymore. It is just not safe with all those bad news.

None of them would want to have operations from two airports at the same time. It is just too costly and troublesome.

If the military government is still pushing, they will surely be sorry.

[BlackJack]

This overall cultural thinking way of whats in it for me is at the heart of all the Thai woes.

I see it from getting air in the tires to building the airport - amazing Thailand.

I say let the new airport rust away as a permanent reminder of greed nepotism corruption.

In 50 years time Thai children will ask what it is and their english teacher can tell them of how Thailand used to be in times gone by.

NOT

[Maestro]

why spend a dollar when 25 cents will get it done?

The general impression is that the full dollar was spent but that by far not all of it went into the construction.

Step 1: construction design

Step 2: bidding

Step 3: award to lowest bidder, which is a Thai company

Step 4: change in design, to reduce cost.

But the Murphy Jahn/TAMS/ACT (MJTA) consortium admitted yesterday the design had been modified during construction to cut costs

--

Maestro

[popshirt]

thaigene has a good point:

"The longer I live here, the clearer it becomes how easy it was for a certain group of people, in such a short time (a few generations)to get so rich by exploiting a passive gullible indigenous population -- by taking over the bureacracy and doing deals between families, by doing dirty litle deals between themselves, by cooking up half baked ideas for public works projects that weren't needed - only to enrich temselves by skimming and replacing the parts with cheaper ones...it just never, never stop..."

I'm wondering that in the age of globalization, they are not going to get away with this stuff as much as in the past. When it starts affecting not just an indigenous population, but certain parts of the international community, there will be new prices to pay.

The prices are already being paid, in my opinion. The reference to The Times (London) article cautioning investment in Thailand mentioned above is but one straw in the wind. To say nothing about farang who own real property in Thailand no matter what the land title status.

International business has many choices for investment besides Thailand and the word is getting around very quickly. What an actual and public relations disaster this all is.

Most investors are not so much concerned about a junta or military government; it is what that government does or does not do that shows up on the radar screen. This government has been, so far, a total public relations disaster and has either promulgated or condoned some very stupid decisions.

The sufficiency economy may be ethically laudable, but I do feel very sorry for the indigenous Thais who are not connected to the well-connected.

Edited February 17, 2007 by popshirt

[HOOD Robin]

Why doesnt he find someone who is familiar with this sort of thing and appoint them to run it. what does he know about the airport, or is it that famous thai logic that since he is the guy incharge, he is the most capable to handle any problem?

it seems like one bad stoy after another chasing this interim government.

Yea....... unfortunately..... TiT .......

They really think that this guy discovered the HOT water....

Indeed it is a HOT topic, but please, don't give it in the hands of somebody who thinks that he knows everything about airports (just like Toxin before him, but that was another fact, wasn't it ??? )

Anyway, where is this soap gonna end ??

[Billfear]

Just a case of uping the anti and brinkmanship to either sqeeze a hefty amount of compensation or a concession on landing fees I would then expect to hear from those airlines that it was not a monetary consideration at all but based upon operating efficiency whist the new airport undergo its repairs and even perhaps upgrade ?

Did I hear you say a concession on landing fees? Dont think so! When the Thai Government impose a 500 Baht (soon to be 700 Baht) airport tax which EVERY passenger pays on exit the governmwnt here deserves every problem they get. We all pay within our Air ticket price all airport taxes etc. Good on these Airlines...let them squeeze the Thai governments B****s for a change. Enough is enough.

[DrDweeb]

The reason why nothing gets ever done properly in this country is this culture of "KRENG JAI" (hey, even 2 major universities here in Thailand have written reports on this perpetual hindrance of progress). It's all fine and dandy to take other people's position in to account/consideration, but it should never stand in the way of national progress. Then again, that's the nail on the proverbial head, I guess: not a soul in this, or any other Thai government from the past for that matter, has ever been interested in anything but his/her own pockets. Keep the people uneducated and maintain and control situations that cause fear and confusion (South, border with Burma, disappearing of pro-democracy people, etc.) and you're set for a comfy ride into wealth.................

This tactic has/was employed by the major religions for 1000-1500 years and is ongoing. The tactic is employed because it works. Deja vu all over again.

Dweeb

[lukamar]

I feel better knowing that the PM will handle it all himself. Will he handle it by blaming Thaksin for buying off all the Airlines or Singapore for spying on the Generals and passing the information on to the Airlines? Possibly having all the foreign airlines stop flying into Thailand would suit the old folks well. They could then close all the borders and live in their dream self sufficient dessert island without the fear of foreigners ruining the view or watering down the gene pool.

[Johpa]

The longer I live here, the clearer it becomes how easy it was for a certain group of people, in such a short time (a few generations)to get so rich by exploiting a passive gullible indigenous population -- by taking over the bureacracy and doing deals between families, by doing dirty litle deals between themselves, by cooking up half baked ideas for public works projects that weren't needed - only to enrich temselves by skimming and replacing the parts with cheaper ones...it just never, never stop...

But leave it up to me "I'm the Phooyai" I will fix it.." and get a bit richer of course in the process..ahem.

Now that is one of the more succinct summations of how things work in Thailand that I have seen on these boards.

Chaiyo!

[endure]

Just a case of uping the anti and brinkmanship to either sqeeze a hefty amount of compensation or a concession on landing fees I would then expect to hear from those airlines that it was not a monetary consideration at all but based upon operating efficiency whist the new airport undergo its repairs and even perhaps upgrade ?

Did I hear you say a concession on landing fees? Dont think so! When the Thai Government impose a 500 Baht (soon to be 700 Baht) airport tax which EVERY passenger pays on exit the governmwnt here deserves every problem they get.

700bt is quite a bargain. If you fly out of the UK you pay 1400bt airport tax if you travel in economy and 2800bt if you fly Business or First Class.

[george]

The reason why nothing gets ever done properly in this country is this culture of "KRENG JAI" (hey, even 2 major universities here in Thailand have written reports on this perpetual hindrance of progress). It's all fine and dandy to take other people's position in to account/consideration, but it should never stand in the way of national progress. Then again, that's the nail on the proverbial head, I guess: not a soul in this, or any other Thai government from the past for that matter, has ever been interested in anything but his/her own pockets. Keep the people uneducated and maintain and control situations that cause fear and confusion (South, border with Burma, disappearing of pro-democracy people, etc.) and you're set for a comfy ride into wealth.................

Isn't this the truth?

[iosufm]

Short the SET. It's a proxy for being short thai government intelligence.

Positon: short the set from much higher prices & lovin' it.

[farang2002]

Why doesnt he find someone who is familiar with this sort of thing and appoint them to run it. what does he know about the airport,

--------- or is it that famous thai logic that since he is the guy incharge, he is the most capable to handle any problem? ------

it seems like one bad stoy after another chasing this interim government.

Yup. That's sounds about right..

The longer I live here, the clearer it becomes how easy it was for a certain group of people, in such a short time (a few generations)to get so rich by exploiting a passive gullible indigenous population -- by taking over the bureacracy and doing deals between families, by doing dirty litle deals between themselves, by cooking up half baked ideas for public works projects that weren't needed - only to enrich temselves by skimming and replacing the parts with cheaper ones...it just never, never stop...

But leave it up to me "I'm the Phooyai" I will fix it.." and get a bit richer of course in the process..ahem.

That's pretty much the way things are here in the LOS.

[colin-uk]

I think that as one of the carriers talking about the boycott would be SQ, then in that case they would be simply dropping their flights altogether to Bangkok, and I very much doubt that they would jeopardise their landing rights in that way. This is why they are talking as a group.

I have used the airport quite a lot and to be really honest, I haven't seen anything of the problems quoted by others in this and other forums. I have seen the reports and photographs of the cracks, and OK, they exist of course and need to be repaired. I would suggest that the company that built the airbridges would have had to put some form of warranty in place so repairs will not cost the governement cash outlay, but of course there is the lost revenue from tourists or others not wishing to come due to all the negative publicity.

There are definitely things that need to be fixed, but apart from those well known issues with the building and runways etc, I think much of the rest of the hoo-ha is probably associated with the usual problems that airports face when newly opened. I am not saying it is acceptable practice, but I am saying that the minor hiccups are just that.

The major issuues are the building construction problems and those involving the runways and taxiways - those must be fixd properly of course!

I applaud the governement for at least trying to move to sort out the issues and get things straightened away. The Prime Minister is at least taking the bull by the horns, whereas the previous governement would simply have muzzled the press...no more stories...problem solved!

By the way, it is 1hr 45 minutes flight from KL to BKK, and a bit more from Singapore...around 2hrs.

As a european i am a little worried about landing and taking off from an airport which seems to be sliding back into a swamp don mang wasnt perfect but at least it was safe not only are there runway and taxiway problems you dont expect a new terminal building falling to bits around your ears not a very good advert to tourism perhapse tourists and safety dont matter anymore losing face if they shut the disaster down means more, think as others have said fly to a country nearby and continue overland safer till they sort out the fiasco

[TukTukDriver]

Looks like Star Alliance is more than just for frequent flyer miles.

[wintermute]

I think that as one of the carriers talking about the boycott would be SQ, then in that case they would be simply dropping their flights altogether to Bangkok, and I very much doubt that they would jeopardise their landing rights in that way. This is why they are talking as a group.

I have used the airport quite a lot and to be really honest, I haven't seen anything of the problems quoted by others in this and other forums. I have seen the reports and photographs of the cracks, and OK, they exist of course and need to be repaired. I would suggest that the company that built the airbridges would have had to put some form of warranty in place so repairs will not cost the governement cash outlay, but of course there is the lost revenue from tourists or others not wishing to come due to all the negative publicity.

There are definitely things that need to be fixed, but apart from those well known issues with the building and runways etc, I think much of the rest of the hoo-ha is probably associated with the usual problems that airports face when newly opened. I am not saying it is acceptable practice, but I am saying that the minor hiccups are just that.

The major issuues are the building construction problems and those involving the runways and taxiways - those must be fixd properly of course!

I applaud the governement for at least trying to move to sort out the issues and get things straightened away. The Prime Minister is at least taking the bull by the horns, whereas the previous governement would simply have muzzled the press...no more stories...problem solved!

By the way, it is 1hr 45 minutes flight from KL to BKK, and a bit more from Singapore...around 2hrs.

As a european i am a little worried about landing and taking off from an airport which seems to be sliding back into a swamp don mang wasnt perfect but at least it was safe not only are there runway and taxiway problems you dont expect a new terminal building falling to bits around your ears not a very good advert to tourism perhapse tourists and safety dont matter anymore losing face if they shut the disaster down means more, think as others have said fly to a country nearby and continue overland safer till they sort out the fiasco

Ahh..well let me reassure you then in the voice of the thai service personnel operating this great nation:

"Don' worry Suh! Every-ting aw-light! I Khoon Thai! Mai pen rai! ha ha ha. Di mak lieu! 1000 baht can have poo-ying! Sexxy gurl mak! Taxi to Sukhimvit 2000 baht! good good!!

Edited February 17, 2007 by wintermute

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The reason why nothing gets ever done properly in this country is this culture of "KRENG JAI" (hey, even 2 major universities here in Thailand have written reports on this perpetual hindrance of progress). It's all fine and dandy to take other people's position in to account/consideration, but it should never stand in the way of national progress. Then again, that's the nail on the proverbial head, I guess: not a soul in this, or any other Thai government from the past for that matter, has ever been interested in anything but his/her own pockets. Keep the people uneducated and maintain and control situations that cause fear and confusion (South, border with Burma, disappearing of pro-democracy people, etc.) and you're set for a comfy ride into wealth.................

Isn't this the truth?

Right on

[dr_Pat_Pong]

.... Personally, I wouldn't mind taking a short hop from Singapore to Don Muang. It's only a little over an hour away by one of the smaller airlines and the flight is usually pretty cheap.

Make that 2 hours 20 min.

SIN - time is one hour ahead of BKK.

Axel,as ever ... dead right

[OlRedEyes]

Well, Thailand does not need the Tourism anyway. You can take boats, Buses, Tuk Tuk, Motor taxi's, bick's, or even walk into Thailand.

Thailand is looking for quality tourism, you know, the guys with the private jets. No need for common economy class carriers here.

[thaimat]

Well, Thailand does not need the Tourism anyway. You can take boats, Buses, Tuk Tuk, Motor taxi's, bick's, or even walk into Thailand.

Thailand is looking for quality tourism, you know, the guys with the private jets. No need for common economy class carriers here.

Yup!! Every PR nightmare is met with the now standard reply, "But we want quality tourists". I guess that now means people who don't care about pollution where they holiday-polluted air, polluted beaches, filthy streets; people who have such a low value on their own lives that flying into unsafe airports isn't nearly as important as having a Bulgari store in the airport so they can spend big money on "quality" items; people who don't care they are charged double, and more, for most things because they have a different skin color, indeed should simply paint big targets on their forehead with captions stating "walking ATM here-fleece at will".

[rstrauss]

Well, Thailand does not need the Tourism anyway. You can take boats, Buses, Tuk Tuk, Motor taxi's, bick's, or even walk into Thailand.

Thailand is looking for quality tourism, you know, the guys with the private jets. No need for common economy class carriers here.

Yup!! Every PR nightmare is met with the now standard reply, "But we want quality tourists". I guess that now means people who don't care about pollution where they holiday-polluted air, polluted beaches, filthy streets; people who have such a low value on their own lives that flying into unsafe airports isn't nearly as important as having a Bulgari store in the airport so they can spend big money on "quality" items; people who don't care they are charged double, and more, for most things because they have a different skin color, indeed should simply paint big targets on their forehead with captions stating "walking ATM here-fleece at will".

I second that. I recently was in Bang Saen and i didn't know, that the beach there is an official rubbish dump. Charged double? The national parks a are 10x the price. Off limit for me now.

[Old Man River]

Airlines threaten to boycott Thailand

BANGKOK:

Board of Airline Representatives president Brian Sinclair-Thompson, speaking for more than 60 carriers, said last night:

"Some members are going to review their commitment to continue their services from Thailand if they are forced to split operations to serve two airports.''

--The Australian 2007-02-17

Purely from an international carrier point of view, why is it not acceptable to split operations between DM and Suvarnabuhmi airports, but it is acceptable to split operations between Gatwick and Heathrow?

[Phil Conners]

Ok ok all you jokers. I haven't flown Bangkok Spore for 10 years so I don't remember the actual flight time but the way Alex explained it it sounded like the flight was actually 1.5 hrs but the schedule showed 2.5 hrs due to the timezone difference. Apologies. Now can we get back to the subject?

[Canadianvisitor]

What's everybody worried about?

They can just ask the carriers that are landing at the New Airport to back the tire pressure off just before they land!

They could also just back off the pressure on their last stop

before they reach "The Swamp" and not worry about the "little bumps"!

OR...

They could install hydraulic pistons to level out the runways

in unison with each flights arrival.

You see!... we just need some creative thinking to overcome these small obstacles...

like they could put pylons on the runways and

the planes could just steer around the "bumpy bits"!!!

Whattya think?

Not a laughing matter really, I love Thailand so, but we

have to have a bit of fun with this very serious subject.

Edited February 18, 2007 by Canadianvisitor

[lukamar]

Purely from an international carrier point of view, why is it not acceptable to split operations between DM and Suvarnabuhmi airports, but it is acceptable to split operations between Gatwick and Heathrow?

They know that if they are at Gatwick the Brits won't send them to Heathrow and then send them back to Gatwick a couple of months later only to be sent back to Heathrow after investing millions of Pounds for the initial move. They know the Thai's don't care and will do that to them at the drop of a hat.

A note on flight safety. No international carrier will fly into any airport, except possibly in an emergency situation, that it feels is unsafe. Not because of the passengers safety but because the loss of a plane would cost them many times the payouts awarded to the passengers and the cost of the plane. Airlines make money when the plane is in the air working not when it is in a hanger being put back together by NTSB investigators. If the international carriers feel the new airport is safe then it probably much safer than we are all led to believe and all the hype to the contrary is PR spin. Are there problems - sure are - is it unsafe not a bit.

[Sing_Sling]

Looks like Star Alliance is more than just for frequent flyer miles.

Spot on.

[glaitong]

Everybody unhappy about old and new airports. I am fine as I love the trains.