Thai govt urged to lift ban on e-cigarettes

[webfact]

Govt urged to lift ban on e-cigarettes

By Jintana Panyaarvudh 
THE NATION

 

 

Allowing smoke-free products seen as more effective in discouraging tobacco smokers than plain packaging.

 

A NETWORK OF e-cigarette users and importers have suggested that lifting the ban on smoke-free products and issuing appropriate regulations would be a more-effective measure to discourage people from smoking rather than selling cigarettes in plain packages. 

 

The Public Health Ministry is in the process of announcing a new regulation requiring cigarettes to be sold only in plain packages, with 10 new pictures and warning messages designed by the ministry. The new regulation will come into force in 270 days after being published in the Royal Gazette. 

 

Citing research that plain packaging helps reduce the craving for cigarettes, this new regulation will make Thailand the first country in Asia and 11th in the world to adopt “negative” packaging to discourage smoking, officials said earlier. 

 

 

However, Maris Karanyawat, representative of the End Cigarette Smoke Thailand group [ECST], said plain packaging will do little to cut down on cigarette consumption, citing the number of smokers staying at 11 million over the past decade in Thailand despite the inclusion of warning pictures on packets since 2005. 

 

“Thai laws [related to smoking] include severe punishment, but whether they can be really or seriously enforced is the problem,” he added. 

 

ECST had earlier submitted 40,000 signatures in a campaign for legalising e-cigarette and suggesting that it be turned into a “controlled” rather than “banned” substance. 

 

The Commerce Ministry has banned production, import, sale and consequently possession of e-cigarettes since 2014. 

 

Maris met with concerned agencies late last month about lifting the ban, but came away without a resolution. However, the Commerce Ministry did say it will set up a panel to study the proposal’s feasibility, he said. 

 

 

Meanwhile, Gerald Margolis, managing director of Philip Morris (Thailand), said revoking the ban on smoke-free products and appropriately regulating cigarettes will achieve more than selling them in plain packaging. He added that his company was not opposed to plain packaging, but was more focused on efforts to secure appropriate regulations for products that have been scientifically substantiated as being less harmful. 

 

He said Philip Morris International was working to create a smoke-free future, and that the priority of the company was to provide less harmful alternatives to adult smokers who will otherwise continue to smoke.

 

“Today’s issue is not about packaging, it is about the cigarettes inside that really cause harm when people light and smoke them,” he said.

 

He cited statistics showing that in countries where smoke-free products are prohibited, such as Australia and Singapore, smoking rates have not changed significantly over the last several years despite increasingly aggressive regulatory and fiscal efforts.

 

By contrast, in countries where smoke-free alternatives are allowed, such as the UK, Europe Union, Sweden and Japan, smoking rates have dropped to historic lows, he added. 

 

Margolis said regulatory measures for cigarettes should be complemented by policies that allow and encourage smokers to switch to better, smoke-free alternatives to cigarettes, he said.

 

Separately, the authorities will appeal against a ruling issued by the World Trade Organisation (WTO) against Thailand’s regulations on cigarette imports, Chaiyuth Khamkun, spokesman of the Customs Department, said.

 

The WTO dispute panel released a report two weeks ago, saying that Thailand had failed to implement the recommendations and rulings of the dispute settlement body to bring its measures into conformity with its obligations under the customs valuation agreement and the general agreement on tariffs and trade. 

 

The issue concerns the valuation of cigarettes imported by Philip Morris (Thailand) from Philip Morris subsidiaries in the Philippines and Indonesia. 

 

Philip Morris (Philippines) claims Thai tariff and customs measures for imported cigarettes were unfair. The dispute panel ruled in favour of Philip Morris (Philippines) in late 2010, saying Thailand’s taxation on Philippines’ tobacco exports was contrary to multilateral trading rules. 

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30359264

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-11-26

[yellowboat]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Philip Morris (Philippines) claims Thai tariff and customs measures for imported cigarettes were unfair.

Most imported anything in Thailand is subject to unfair tariffs.  That is why black markets thrive. 

 

E-cigs are huge and loved by many.  Adoption makes sense as there is a huge market.

[toenail]

-meanwhile the West is now banning them in some cities due to students getting addicted to the various flavors ; Thailand wants to legalize them...

[Nielsk]

Good idea. Just like Medicine cannabis. The sooner the better !!

[quandow]

More and more we're finding evidence these e-cigs are NOT the innocuous, better alternative claimed by their manufacturers. Aren't there already enough ways to harm ourselves without adding to the pile? Decriminalizing or making pot completely legal would be a much better way to go. Of course, that would hurt the bottom line for so many powerful industries that it will be a while before it's accepted. For being the supposedly smartest creatures on this planet we sure act stupid.

[silver sea]

If you google: “e-cigarettes Dr Mercola”, you will find plenty of articles by him showing that ‘vaping’, as it seems to be called, is not healthy either for the user or for the bystander, who inhales the vapours.

 

Here is just one example: 

 

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/08/29/vaping-health-risks.aspx

 

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by silver sea

[finnishmen]

thais have only at world who criminal vaping, big idiots work, who has die at vaping, no any, and healty, better vaping than smoking cigarettes, cigarettes include 5000 different poisons but vaping NOT, has only 3 different parts and all cleans, i know many many peoples who vapinf in thailand and other countrys and newer not has anybody healt problems whit vaping, but smoker have all somethink problems alltime healt.

[spidermike007]

The greatest benefit to e-cigarettes is the smaller amount of noxious smoke, that is released, to terrorize bystanders. Inhaling second hand smoke is beyond obnoxious, for a non smoker. Fill your lungs with as much of that crap as you want, but please do not inflict it upon us.

 

The reality I believe, is that the Thai monopoly has not been able to figure out how to make money on e-cigarettes, hence the aggressive policy of preventing it. Not a health concern at all, when you have a government monopoly pushing cigarettes on the nations population. 

[CptnAhab]

1 hour ago, silver sea said:

If you google: “e-cigarettes Dr Mercola”, you will find plenty of articles by him showing that ‘vaping’, as it seems to be called, is not healthy either for the user or for the bystander, who inhales the vapours.

 

Here is just one example: 

 

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/08/29/vaping-health-risks.aspx

 

 

Do you really think, that the opinions of one organisation who is making their money with "health"-products is more valuable than very many scientific (not in it for the money) researchers think?

 

[nowhereman]

I am really surprised of the number of TV posters who are completely ignorant about this topic and yet they have face to comment on it. Luckily you can hide behind avatars, otherwise you would be a laughing stock on the streets where people have freedom to choose a healthier alternative to smoking. Reading one article does't make you knowledgeable.    

[connda]

Someone, somewhere saw The Light!!!   ฿฿฿<Cha-Ching>฿฿฿  <Sound of angels singing>

[sammieuk1]

Mod on there's money to be made????

[anon345535]

3 hours ago, silver sea said:

‘vaping’, as it seems to be called, is not healthy either

 

Healthy? No. 
Less harmful? Yes.

Just published. A risk assessment analysis of a recent study by John Hopkins which was all over the media and reported that e-cigarettes emit toxic levels of metals. In fact they do not!! John Hopkins was wrong... The original study was all over the media, with impressive headlines all over the world (including Greece). I expect absolutely zero publicity for this study, which is unfortunate for smokers. But being in the scientific domain, it cannot be ignored by scientists or the regulatory authorities.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08958378.2018.1523262?fbclid=IwAR0BtVZ_RvTUvl31blfFIZly7lBctKnBpO1hVi7vYTaAYxFvDvvqP6SDpQk&amp;journalCode=iiht20

Edited November 26, 2018 by c411um

[silver sea]

2 hours ago, CptnAhab said:

 

Do you really think, that the opinions of one organisation who is making their money with "health"-products is more valuable than very many scientific (not in it for the money) researchers think?

 

 

1 hour ago, nowhereman said:

I am really surprised of the number of TV posters who are completely ignorant about this topic and yet they have face to comment on it. Luckily you can hide behind avatars, otherwise you would be a laughing stock on the streets where people have freedom to choose a healthier alternative to smoking. Reading one article does't make you knowledgeable.    

 

 

Hello CptnAhab and nowhereman,

 

Thank you for taking the trouble to comment on my post (#6 above).

 

I said that Dr Mercola has written several articles on vaping. I offered a link to one of them as an example only; not everyone has the time or the inclination to play around on google.

 

I have never smoked cigarettes; food has, in the past, been my addiction when I have felt upset or stressed. I am 1.78 m tall, and at one time weighed 120 kgs.

 

I have found Dr Mercola helpful on a wide range of health matters such as diet, sugar, fasting, and cell phones, to name just a few topics, and so feel more inclined to believe him, a 64 year old medical practitioner, rather than Gerald Margolis, managing director of Philip Morris (Thailand), which imports such well known cigarette brands as Marlboro and L&M, who is quoted in the OP above.

 

 

Yes, you have the freedom to choose. My previous post, with its link, was simply an attempt to help people to make an informed choice, when doing their own research. The article may not be definitive, but I find it persuasive.

 

It is up to other posters to provide links to one or more of the “... very many scientific (not in it for the money) reseachers ...” [CptnAhab] who show that vaping does not damage your health.

 

When posting however they should be aware: 

“Most scientific studies are wrong, and they are wrong because scientists are interested in funding and careers rather than truth.” (Doug Altman)

 

The above quote is from a British Medical Journal (BMJ) blog: 

 

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2014/01/31/richard-smith-medical-research-still-a-scandal/

 

Yes I choose not to post under my real name, just like you do, nowhereman, so I don’t really understand your point. My reason is that you can never be too careful when using the internet and social media. There are some weird people out there, doing some very strange things:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6406277/Student-discovers-mystery-lookalike-stalking-extreme-copying-Instagram-posts.html

[Machiavelli]

3 hours ago, silver sea said:

If you google: “e-cigarettes Dr Mercola”, you will find plenty of articles by him showing that ‘vaping’, as it seems to be called, is not healthy either for the user or for the bystander, who inhales the vapours.

 

Here is just one example: 

 

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/08/29/vaping-health-risks.aspx

 

 

 

 

Gee. Big deal. The bystander, if by any chance they could cross the road, they could be hit by a car, or god forbid, shot by some road rage nut. There are many ways to die. Millions of people died will die today. Not all are smokers. 

[Machiavelli]

4 hours ago, silver sea said:

‘vaping’, as it seems to be called, is not healthy either

So is eating, crossing the road, over-laughing, guns, catapults, beer, wine, falling trees, cars, apples, sleeping, earthquakes, tsunamis, sticking finger where the sun don't shine, shouting "bomb" at an airport, etc. None of these is healthy. They kill more too. 

[silver sea]

14 minutes ago, Machiavelli said:

Gee. Big deal. The bystander, if by any chance they could cross the road, they could be hit by a car, or god forbid, shot by some road rage nut. There are many ways to die. Millions of people died will die today. Not all are smokers. 

 

9 minutes ago, Machiavelli said:

So is eating, crossing the road, over-laughing, guns, catapults, beer, wine, falling trees, cars, apples, sleeping, earthquakes, tsunamis, sticking finger where the sun don't shine, shouting "bomb" at an airport, etc. None of these is healthy. They kill more too. 

 

 

Hello Machiavelli,

 

Thank you for reading and making a comment on my earlier post. 

 

I have always found Dr Mercola helpful on a wide range of health matters. I was 120 kgs, but have managed to lose 40 kgs. I am still overweight, but I feel much happier in myself.

 

I find his articles on vaping persuasive and that was why I gave a link to one of them on this thread in the hope that it might be of interest to other people. But it is up to them whether they vape or not.

 

If, after doing your research, you are happy to smoke cigarettes, and/or vape, then that is your informed choice and good luck to you. I hope you enjoy a long, happy and healthy life ????

[Scottjouro]

5 hours ago, toenail said:

-meanwhile the West is now banning them in some cities due to students getting addicted to the various flavors ; Thailand wants to legalize them...

Do you actually read what you write ?

 

Where in the west are they being banned, and some cities is not "the West" per se and Thailand is a country not a city

 

Some states in the US still allow sex with chickens...the west isnt always right...

[Scottjouro]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The greatest benefit to e-cigarettes is the smaller amount of noxious smoke, that is released, to terrorize bystanders. Inhaling second hand smoke is beyond obnoxious, for a non smoker. Fill your lungs with as much of that crap as you want, but please do not inflict it upon us.

 

The reality I believe, is that the Thai monopoly has not been able to figure out how to make money on e-cigarettes, hence the aggressive policy of preventing it. Not a health concern at all, when you have a government monopoly pushing cigarettes on the nations population. 

There is no smoke released from an e-cig....smoke is a product of combustion, there is no combustion in an e-cig, the e juice is vapourised and the vapour released is water vapour for the most part with a very small quantity of glycol

 

So if your getting on your self righteous soap box at least make an attempt to get your technical references correct before getting all hysterical 

[Scottjouro]

1 hour ago, Machiavelli said:

So is eating, crossing the road, over-laughing, guns, catapults, beer, wine, falling trees, cars, apples, sleeping, earthquakes, tsunamis, sticking finger where the sun don't shine, shouting "bomb" at an airport, etc. None of these is healthy. They kill more too. 

I used to smoke 40 a day and after many other attempts to stop smoking involving patches, gum, medication (champex) etc, an e-cig stopped me smoking cigarettes and ultimately i stopped using the vape as well..been 3 years now...so in my case a vape gave the exact result it was invented for

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Amusements]

Banning E-cigarettes was definitely the wrong thing to do, and should be unbanned ASAP....However, the government might want to put a ban on Diacetyl, which gets put in to some E-liquid, as it can cause popcorn lung. 

https://www.lung.org/about-us/blog/2016/07/popcorn-lung-risk-ecigs.html

[Scottjouro]

41 minutes ago, Amusements said:

Banning E-cigarettes was definitely the wrong thing to do, and should be unbanned ASAP....However, the government might want to put a ban on Diacetyl, which gets put in to some E-liquid, as it can cause popcorn lung. 

https://www.lung.org/about-us/blog/2016/07/popcorn-lung-risk-ecigs.html

Banning things by governments worldwide is usually the first step as they dont understand the consequences of allowing something 

 

Think about mobile phone usage being banned on airplanes...originally one had to have your phone switched off at all times - the plane will fall out the sky if you leave it on... LOL...not withstanding the fact you cant get a signal at 30k feet lol..

 

for most airlines these days flight mode is fine, and even if not in flight mode not a single proven case of a plane crash caused by a mobile phone 

[thaichina]

52 minutes ago, Amusements said:

Banning E-cigarettes was definitely the wrong thing to do, and should be unbanned ASAP....However, the government might want to put a ban on Diacetyl, which gets put in to some E-liquid, as it can cause popcorn lung. 

https://www.lung.org/about-us/blog/2016/07/popcorn-lung-risk-ecigs.html

There s not one documented case of popcorn lung caused by ecigarette. There is no dyacetyl in good elquids, only in cheap liquids for certain tastes, and cigarettes contain far more dyacetyl ( at minimum 9 times ) than cheap ejuices.

[Greyhat]

I wish there was as much enthusiasm to get e-cigs legalised as there appears to be behind the medical marijuana push. They're both fantastic ideas but the potential to get huge numbers of people away from cigarettes on onto a much safer alternative deserves to be taken very seriously. A prevention is better than a cure.

[Scottjouro]

10 minutes ago, Greyhat said:

I wish there was as much enthusiasm to get e-cigs legalised as there appears to be behind the medical marijuana push. They're both fantastic ideas but the potential to get huge numbers of people away from cigarettes on onto a much safer alternative deserves to be taken very seriously. A prevention is better than a cure.

Marijuana was not banned on medical grounds, it was banned on politcal grounds by the US and then the US strong armed countries into following the US agenda..

 

should have never been banned in the first place, at worst no more destructive than the legal use of alcohol...but Marijuana as a safer alternative to cigarettes ?...smoking weed based on medical studies is worse for you than smoking cigarettes in the damage it does to your lungs

 

There is nothing wrong with the premise of using e-cigs as a stop smoking aid, which is what they were invented for

 

 

[Greyhat]

1 minute ago, Scottjouro said:

but Marijuana as a safer alternative to cigarettes ?

OH TOMMY TOMMY.

Was not my intention to conflate the two mate, just saying.. All this drive to get cannabis reclassified under law, e-cigs deserve to be looked at properly too (as an alternative to tobacco). 

[Scottjouro]

34 minutes ago, thaichina said:

There s not one documented case of popcorn lung caused by ecigarette. There is no dyacetyl in good elquids, only in cheap liquids for certain tastes, and cigarettes contain far more dyacetyl ( at minimum 9 times ) than cheap ejuices.

Giving you my perspective as an ex smoker who used a vape to stop smoking cigarettes and then stopped using the vape...just so you understand i am not some self righteous, anti smoking /anti vaping zealot on a soap box..

 

There may be no documented cases of popcorn lung due to the addtion of dyacetyl to e-juice, but by the same token there are no documented studies which show e-cigs as being 100% safe either

 

Will there be long term health consequences to long term vapers which where not foresee ?....most likely...your putting something into your lungs which shouldnt be there in the first place

 

All we can say at this stage is vaping appears less harmful than smoking cigarettes, but this doesnt infer vaping is 100% safe either 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Scottjouro

[CptnAhab]

"Will there be long term health consequences to long term vapers which where not foresee ?....most likely...your putting something into your lungs which shouldnt be there in the first place..."

 

Probably true... But nobody states vaping is healthy!  Having a walk in nice climate surely is better  ????.   But vaping is less dangerous than smoking! Most or all experts worldwide agree on that.

[CeeGee]

I am not going into the argument smoke or vape etc.People do smoke and people do vape,but one issue that has not been mentioned is the production of the actual vape juice.In areas where it is legal to vape,the production of vape juice is controlled by various regulations so there is some control as to what is exactly in the juice.Where vaping is illegal, the production of the juice has no regulation and as such anyone can knock up a batch of juice in their back room with no regard for health and safety, foodstuff regulation etc and then sell it at street markets,with no control over what they are actually selling(and we are all aware of the Thai attitude to health and safety  with regard to foodstuffs)

I vape when I am in Thailand but I will not use the juice from the market stalls but bring it with me.

[DrTuner]

Right, so PM seems to have their juice lineup ready then. Some hope in horizon.