Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[rixalex]

 
Go back through all the Brexit threads. You will find that Farage has been quoted as if his words are Holy Writ by many of your fellow Brexiteers.

Presumably they didn't mean Holy Writ to you then, so why do they now?

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[vinny41]

39 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I have already explained why we need to make a final decision before we actually leave; but I'll do so again..

 

T ECJ has ruled that if we withdraw Article 50 we can remain a member on exactly the same terms as now. Which means, among other things, that we keep the pound, keep the rebate, stay out of Schengen.

 

Were we to leave and then in a few years time apply to join again this ruling would not mean a toss. So, like all others applying to join, we would not only lose the rebate, but we would also have to adopt the Euro and join Schengen.

 

I find that being acceptable to any Brexiteer very strange. I thought you Brexiteers wanted us to maintain control over our own borders and finances!

Britain would lose EU rebate even if it decided to ditch Brexit - EU official6

After Brexit, the EU wants to wind down in stages all the rebates, including those that the Netherlands or Denmark enjoy. The bloc’s executive European Commission has proposed to have none in the next common budget for 2021-2024.

“I think that even for the pleasant but improbable case that the British wish to remain... then in my budgetary framework I would stick to the phased ending of rebates. The rebates, in a family of 27, are no longer appropriate.”

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-rebate/britain-would-lose-eu-rebate-even-if-it-decided-to-ditch-brexit-eu-official-idUKKCN1MM1PV

 

 

 

[rixalex]

 
Q.E.D., bristolboy.
 
Farage is a major quotable source to Brexiteers, until he says something they don't like!

How is what you are doing any different, albeit it in reverse? Rubbish hits every word until he says something you agree with.

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[bristolboy]

16 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

In which case we probably wouldn't be accepted into the EU until we did; and if we were we would have to commit to using it as soon as we qualified.

I"m not so sure about the UK having to commit to the Euro. At least in any meaningful way. Poland has committed to adopting the Euro but there's no time limit imposed on the Poles to actually do it. 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

hang on there krap, stay tuned

might still happen

 

the end is nigh but we are not there yet

 

 

 

[7by7]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If that is the case you wouldn't have any problem finding them and re linking them in a  updated post  will you

A couple from a topic just after the referendum.

Work forward from there and you'll find many more of the same.

[vinny41]

20 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

But the fact remains that Rees-Mogg is so confident about the UK's future prosperity outside the EU that he has moved some of his money to Ireland! His excuse that he is just a partner and does not make investment decisions is feeble in the extreme.

That is your opinion but what Somerset Management is doing is no different to what most members on this forum do and that is you don't put all your eggs in one basket

[billd766]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 I have already explained why we need to make a final decision before we actually leave; but I'll do so again..

 

T ECJ has ruled that if we withdraw Article 50 we can remain a member on exactly the same terms as now. Which means, among other things, that we keep the pound, keep the rebate, stay out of Schengen.

 

Were we to leave and then in a few years time apply to join again this ruling would not mean a toss. So, like all others applying to join, we would not only lose the rebate, but we would also have to adopt the Euro and join Schengen.

 

I find that being acceptable to any Brexiteer very strange. I thought you Brexiteers wanted us to maintain control over our own borders and finances!

 

 

 

I am not sure if you are strictly correct when you say that the UK will keeps its rebates.

 

This man certainly disagrees with you.

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union’s budget chief Guenther Oettinger said on Friday Britain would lose its rebate even in the “pleasant but improbable” event of it staying in the bloc.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-rebate/britain-would-lose-eu-rebate-even-if-it-decided-to-ditch-brexit-eu-official-idUSKCN1MM1PV

Edited January 6, 2019 by billd766
added extra text

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

A couple from a topic just after the referendum.

Work forward from there and you'll find many more of the same.

You can hang on to Nigel Farage messages if you want I will hang on to Tony Blair messages

Blair: a no vote means no

Tony Blair today suggested that he would not seek another referendum on the EU constitution if it was rejected by the British people.
Under repeated questioning from reporters on whether the poll would be rerun if the answer came back negative, Mr Blair responded: "If the British people vote no, they vote no. You can't then start bringing it back until they vote yes.

Today he said if Britain voted no he would have to go back to the European council and discuss the way forward.

The PM said: "This is an issue which it is time for the British people to decide and let them have their say."

He stressed: "If the British people vote no in this referendum, that is their verdict. That is absolutely clear."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...2/eu.politics3

 

"Tony Blair said yesterday that he would not call an immediate second referendum on Europe if the British people throw out the proposed EU constitution in the vote expected next year."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...pe-560931.html

[dunroaming]

The only thing I can take from the interview May has just had with Marr is that she has stopped saying an absolute no to the alternatives.  Marr was pushing for some sort of weakening on her position over a second referendum and she was careful to just fudge her replies.  Same goes for position on a hard Brexit.

[7by7]

22 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Go back through all the Brexit threads. You will find that Farage has been quoted as if his words are Holy Writ by many of your fellow Brexiteers.

 

14 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Presumably they didn't mean Holy Writ to you then, so why do they now?

Except they don't; and I have never they have. 

 

As should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of Engli8sh comprehension I am merely pointing out that at least one prominent Brexiteer has twice called for a second referendum, only to change his mind.

 

I offered one plausible reason for his change of heart; he's scared he'd lose. What explanation do you have?

 

12 minutes ago, rixalex said:

How is what you are doing any different, albeit it in reverse? Rubbish hits every word until he says something you agree with.

Read what I have actually posted and then find someone who can explain it to you.

 

If that seems condescending, I'm sorry but you seem incapable of understanding it by yourself.

 

Unless, of course, you do fully understand it and are merely playing games. in a feeble effort to score what you see as debating points. 

[7by7]

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I am not sure if you are strictly correct when you say that the UK will keeps its rebates.

 

This man certainly disagrees with you.

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union’s budget chief Guenther Oettinger said on Friday Britain would lose its rebate even in the “pleasant but improbable” event of it staying in the bloc.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-rebate/britain-would-lose-eu-rebate-even-if-it-decided-to-ditch-brexit-eu-official-idUSKCN1MM1PV

 Personally, I put more faith in a judgement from the ECJ than a EU bureaucrat's opinion

[7by7]

10 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

That is your opinion but what Somerset Management is doing is no different to what most members on this forum do and that is you don't put all your eggs in one basket

Agreed, but as Rees-Mogg tells us that the EU is so terrible, why has his company put any eggs at all in that particular basket?

[damascase]

12 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I am not sure if you are strictly correct when you say that the UK will keeps its rebates.

 

This man disagrees with you.

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union’s budget chief Guenther Oettinger said on Friday Britain would lose its rebate even in the “pleasant but improbable” event of it staying in the bloc.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-rebate/britain-would-lose-eu-rebate-even-if-it-decided-to-ditch-brexit-eu-official-idUSKCN1MM1PV

Well, that certainly is not up to this Commissioner. If the UK would withdraw its Article 50 application - as made possible by the Court of Justice ruling - nothing would change in this respect, in my view.

Edited January 6, 2019 by damascase
Typo

[melvinmelvin]

44 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

In which case we probably wouldn't be accepted into the EU until we did; and if we were we would have to commit to using it as soon as we qualified.

thats how the Euro rulez are. if and when your state finances qualify - you go Euro - whether you like it or not

 

becoming a member is not linked to qualifying to use Euro

 

 

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Agreed, but as Rees-Mogg tells us that the EU is so terrible, why has his company put any eggs at all in that particular basket?

Its not his own money that he is investing in Dublin its clients money, some clients have requested that their funds be placed in an EU investment fund, 

I am sure Dyson Vacuum cleaners are still be sold in Europe and will be sold once the UK has left the EU

[nontabury]

44 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

In which case we probably wouldn't be accepted into the EU until we did; and if we were we would have to commit to using it as soon as we qualified.

 

 Well let’s first implement the wishes of the British electorate who Democratically  voted to leave this so called union. Then in perhaps 30- 35 yrs later we could hold another people’s referendum. Then everybody would be happy, unless of course, that referendum resulted in 52% - 48% for re-entry. Could this then lead to those on the losing side, to start slagging off the 52%, stating that they could not possible know what they voted for.

[nontabury]

52 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

But the fact remains that Rees-Mogg is so confident about the UK's future prosperity outside the EU that he has moved some of his money to Ireland! His excuse that he is just a partner and does not make investment decisions is feeble in the extreme.

 

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, damascase said:

Well, that certainly is not up to this Commissioner. If the UK would withdraw its Article 50 application - as made possible by the Court of Justice ruling - nothing would change in this respect, in my view.

What the ECJ said is "The ECJ has said that if the UK revoked Article 50, it would stay in the EU “under terms that are unchanged as regards its status as a member state”. That means the UK would keep all the opt-outs and the EU budget rebate it has at the moment.

Key word is moment and what the EU Commissioner is refering to is the next EU budget for 2021-2024

[melvinmelvin]

32 minutes ago, damascase said:

Well, that certainly is not up to this Commissioner. If the UK would withdraw its Article 50 application - as made possible by the Court of Justice ruling - nothing would change in this respect, in my view.

agree with that

but dont forget - rebate is not in the treaties

the basis for the rebate is the blessing from the council of ministers, pretty loose

 

[billd766]

50 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Personally, I put more faith in a judgement from the ECJ than a EU bureaucrat's opinion

I don't put any trust in any part of the EU.

 

Now if you can show me that the ECJ would be against it I may believe you but AFAIK the ECJ does not make any policy decisions in the running of the EU.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[billd766]

47 minutes ago, damascase said:

Well, that certainly is not up to this Commissioner. If the UK would withdraw its Article 50 application - as made possible by the Court of Justice ruling - nothing would change in this respect, in my view.

But if the UK does not withdraw Article 50 then it will not matter.

 

The ECJ does NOT make EU policy. The commissioners do that in just the same way that the EU Commissioners don't dispense justice.

 

My view is diametrically opposed to yours though our opinions don't really matter where the UK and the EU are concerned.

[nontabury]

29 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

The only thing I can take from the interview May has just had with Marr is that she has stopped saying an absolute no to the alternatives.  Marr was pushing for some sort of weakening on her position over a second referendum and she was careful to just fudge her replies.  Same goes for position on a hard Brexit.

 

 I’ve also just watched the Andrew Marr show,and would agree with you that T.May is full of waffle, but then what do we expect from a remainers who is trying by all means possible to stop Brexit.

 I also noticed on this BBC show, how again the two people invited to give their opinions, where as usual,against implementing the people’s Democratic decision to leave this so called union. And I would remind you that on the ballot paper, we were asked, do we want to remain IN the E.u or do we want OUT.  It was never an option for a so called soft Briexit as against a So called hard Brexit.

[evadgib]

49 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 I’ve also just watched the Andrew Marr show,and would agree with you that T.May is full of waffle, but then what do we expect from a remainers who is trying by all means possible to stop Brexit.

 I also noticed on this BBC show, how again the two people invited to give their opinions, where as usual,against implementing the people’s Democratic decision to leave this so called union. And I would remind you that on the ballot paper, we were asked, do we want to remain IN the E.u or do we want OUT.  It was never an option for a so called soft Briexit as against a So called hard Brexit.

B-liar wriggling a few days ago.

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by evadgib

[Patriot1066]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

I"m not so sure about the UK having to commit to the Euro. At least in any meaningful way. Poland has committed to adopting the Euro but there's no time limit imposed on the Poles to actually do it. 

I understood the nice chaps at Euro Kangaroo court said we could cancel article 50 and keep everything we already had? So no nasty Euro, and still be controlled by the German France alliance. (Deep Joy).

 

However, we would then be back in, again incurring massive hidden liabilities like the 39 billion we are supposed to owe?

 

Quicker we get on WTO terms the better.

 

 

[Patriot1066]

10 minutes ago, evadgib said:

B-liar wriggling a few days ago.

 

In my opinion he should be locked up for war crimes in any case he is leaves secret weapon as whenever he tells us what’s best more people will vote leave.

 

i must have misunderstood the nice government leaflet that piped through the letter box. It was a quality produced project fear tactic.

 

It did say if we dared to vote leave (actually it didn’t say dare) we would leave everything to do with the EU  including any trading pact so I fact there is no ‘hard Brexit’ only Brexit!

 

Therefore, Soft Brexit according to HM Government and the remain camp is not Brexit at all it is a sham!

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, Patriot1066 said:

In my opinion he should be locked up for war crimes in any case he is leaves secret weapon as whenever he tells us what’s best more people will vote leave.

 

i must have misunderstood the nice government leaflet that piped through the letter box. It was a quality produced project fear tactic.

 

It did say if we dared to vote leave (actually it didn’t say dare) we would leave everything to do with the EU  including any trading pact so I fact there is no ‘hard Brexit’ only Brexit!

 

Therefore, Soft Brexit according to HM Government and the remain camp is not Brexit at all it is a sham!

what was the essence of what Blair was saying?

 

may-deal is not good - should not be pursued

 

2nd referendum is the way to go, pick(no deal, remain)

 

did I get that right?

 

 

 

 

[billd766]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

what was the essence of what Blair was saying?

 

may-deal is not good - should not be pursued

 

2nd referendum is the way to go, pick(no deal, remain)

 

did I get that right?

 

 

 

 

But how can you have a second referendum until the first referendum has been completed?

 

That would mean ignoring the votes, not wishes, of some 17 million people to appease some 15 million people.

 

IMHO there should have been a PM who voted for Brexit and not a Remainer PM like Teresa May.

 

YMMV.

[melvinmelvin]

7 minutes ago, billd766 said:

But how can you have a second referendum until the first referendum has been completed?

 

That would mean ignoring the votes, not wishes, of some 17 million people to appease some 15 million people.

 

IMHO there should have been a PM who voted for Brexit and not a Remainer PM like Teresa May.

 

YMMV.

 

hmm

as I often say, hindsight is the only true wisdom

 

yes, pm-remainer, sure mistake

but

alternative; PM- bojo-rees/mog-ddavies-nitwit this nitwit that?

dunno

have your pick

 

[StreetCowboy]

9 hours ago, talahtnut said:

The subconscious desperately needs repetition for

ideas and concepts to stick. UK and EU media are

repeating 'remain' programming in bucket loads

every day. The Matrix is real.. run by the dark 

overlord billionaire gang prepared to gamble

billions on a short sell.

 

Not like Nigel Farage, then?  Not like our Proletarian Hero Rees-Mogg?

 

I don't know about you guys, but I have family who are going to suffer the consequences of this idiocy