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[webfact]

Ailing Central American migrants in dire conditions dig in at U.S. border

By Christine Murray

 

A migrant, part of a caravan of thousands from Central America trying to reach the United States, steps across mud after taking a shower at a temporary shelter in Tijuana, Mexico, November 28, 2018. REUTERS/Lucy Nicholson

 

TIJUANA, Mexico (Reuters) - Thousands of Central American migrants are digging in for the long haul at a filthy, overcrowded sports complex in sight of the United States, while a small number have opted to return home after clashes with border forces dimmed hopes of crossing.

 

The bedraggled men, women and children of a caravan of mostly Hondurans began cramming into the complex in Tijuana about three weeks ago. They now number more than 6,000 in a space the city government first prepared for a third as many.

 

As the reality sinks in that those seeking asylum in the United States will likely have to remain in the Mexican border city for months, 350 people have asked authorities to help them travel home.

 

Jose Luis Tepeu, 22, from Guatemala, was sleeping on cardboard boxes on the ground. He said he would only wait five more days to see if help would come to take him to the United States, or even Canada.

 

"If they don't come, I'll return to my home," he said, saying that salaries in Mexico were too low for him to stay and send money home to help his family. "You don't earn well here."

 

To seek asylum, migrants must first sign onto a waiting list to see U.S. border officials. The list already had a weeks-long backlog before the caravan came. Adding to uncertainty are U.S.-Mexico talks aimed at keeping migrants in Mexico longer.

 

On Sunday, U.S. border guards fired tear gas canisters at a smaller group, including women and children, that rushed the border.

 

The violence seems to have shocked some, and dozens more asked to be sent home voluntarily on Monday, said Rodolfo Olimpo, a migration official in Tijuana.

 

The overcrowding has also helped illness spread. There have been multiple cases of respiratory illnesses, lice and chicken pox, according to three city officials who declined to be named because they were not authorized to speak to the media.

 

With too many to fit into shelters, the migrants, who had travelled about 3,000 miles (4,800 km) since mid-October, were ushered into the complex to wait until U.S. and Mexican authorities settled on how to deal with them.

 

Many have been living in tents, while others are in shelters made from trash bags or patches of cold floor walled off with backpacks and blankets, enduring the harsh elements and lack of privacy as they had learned to do on each leg of their near daily 30-mile treks from northern Honduras.

 

But despite the difficult conditions, many seemed determined to wait in Mexico for their chance to make their case to the United States, with more than 600 applying for permits to work in Mexico just on Tuesday, according to the foreign ministry.

 

"It cost me a lot to walk almost 15 to 20 hours a day, and to go back now: no," said Anabell Pineda, 26, who has pitched a tent in the stadium beside a neat pile of bags and rolled-up blankets.

 

Pineda, who had travelled for almost a month from the violent Honduran city of San Pedro Sula with her six-year-old son, said she arrived in Tijuana 13 days earlier, feeling unwell.

 

When she learned it would be nearly impossible to cross to the United States quickly under current U.S. policies, she resolved to be patient, and get a Mexican work permit meanwhile.

 

At the complex, men washed using buckets in a shower area beside reeking portable toilets and giant mud puddles. Women, wary of uninvited gazes, bathed with clothes on.

 

Sniffing through a blocked nose, Katherin Arita, a 17-year-old Honduran, said she has been losing weight since leaving her homeland a month and a half ago. She expected she would have to wait up to four months to try to enter the United States.

"It's dangerous what I'm doing, it's dangerous," she said.

 

Inside a gymnasium where the caravan's first arrivals had set up neat rows of thin mattresses, a city official said there had been a chicken pox outbreak.

 

U.S. President Donald Trump threatened this week to "permanently" close the U.S.-Mexican border if Mexico does not deport the Central Americans gathered in Tijuana.

 

Mexican Foreign Minister Luis Videgaray, who leaves office this weekend, said in response that Central American migrants were welcome to stay in Mexico.

 

But he said the migrants have a right to request U.S. asylum, and Mexico has repeatedly refused U.S. requests to force them to seek refuge in Mexico instead.

 

(Reporting by Christine Murray; writing by Delphine Schrank; editing by Dave Graham, Jonathan Oatis and Rosalba O'Brien)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-11-29

[marko kok prong]

While i do feel sorry for these people,who have fled often awful conditions,they cannot realistically have thought the US would just let them waltz over the border and settle down,it just does not work that way.

[riclag]

13 minutes ago, marko kok prong said:

While i do feel sorry for these people,who have fled often awful conditions,they cannot realistically have thought the US would just let them waltz over the border and settle down,it just does not work that way.

The poor poverty stricken who have lived in those countries, were misled.

[guest879]

hopefully this sends a clear message to any economic migrants looking to travel to America in the future. Maybe America can be spared from the fate that Merkle has inflicted on Europe with her open door policy.

[TopDeadSenter]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

"It cost me a lot to walk almost 15 to 20 hours a day, and to go back now: no," said Anabell Pineda, 26, who has pitched a tent in the stadium beside a neat pile of bags and rolled-up blankets.

She would have saved much money and effort by looking at a map before setting off. Heading to the US border at Brownsville would have shaved some 1,500km off her walk. Now, I do wonder, what or who persuaded these migrant caravans to walk an extra 1,500kms? I refuse to believe that out of all these tens of thousands of migrants nobody looked at a map and said hey guys let's save a few weeks of walking and head to the Texas border. 

 

 The question we should be asking is did somebody arrange or pay for transporting all these souls to the border at Tijuana to make a political statement against Trump? Pawns in an evil game?

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, TopDeadSenter said:

She would have saved much money and effort by looking at a map before setting off. Heading to the US border at Brownsville would have shaved some 1,500km off her walk. Now, I do wonder, what or who persuaded these migrant caravans to walk an extra 1,500kms?

The Proclaimers  

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, marko kok prong said:

While i do feel sorry for these people,who have fled often awful conditions,they cannot realistically have thought the US would just let them waltz over the border and settle down,it just does not work that way.

No. But they reasonably expected their ASYLUM applications to be processed in a timely manner. 
"trump" has maliciously and deliberately STALLED that.

[Jingthing]

28 minutes ago, guest879 said:

hopefully this sends a clear message to any economic migrants looking to travel to America in the future. Maybe America can be spared from the fate that Merkle has inflicted on Europe with her open door policy.

It's not the same situation at all. 

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

She would have saved much money and effort by looking at a map before setting off. Heading to the US border at Brownsville would have shaved some 1,500km off her walk. Now, I do wonder, what or who persuaded these migrant caravans to walk an extra 1,500kms? I refuse to believe that out of all these tens of thousands of migrants nobody looked at a map and said hey guys let's save a few weeks of walking and head to the Texas border. 

 

 The question we should be asking is did somebody arrange or pay for transporting all these souls to the border at Tijuana to make a political statement against Trump? Pawns in an evil game?

If anything, "trump" is using this for his own propaganda purposes. So if you're advancing a conspiracy theory, don't assume it would be from the left. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

The white nationalist xenophobic race baiting "trump" regime is both viciously cruel and extremely unusual. Americans are asking themselves, is this who we are as a country? The recent midterms gave the answer -- NO!

 

Quote

 

The true depths of Trump’s cruelty are about to be exposed

The House GOP’s near-total abdication of any oversight role has done more than just shield President Trump on matters involving his finances and Russian collusion. It has also resulted in almost no serious scrutiny of the true depths of cruelty, inhumanity and bad-faith rationalization driving important aspects of Trump’s policy agenda — in particular, on his signature issue of immigration.

That’s about to change.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/11/28/the-true-depths-of-trumps-cruelty-are-about-to-be-exposed/?utm_term=.4e63cd7ed147

[TopDeadSenter]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If anything, "trump" is using this for his own propaganda purposes. So if you're advancing a conspiracy theory, don't assume it would be from the left. 

Interesting post. Accusing me of advancing a conspiracy theory, by floating a conspiracy theory of your own. Can we put it down to them eating too many Mexican walking beans?

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Interesting post. Accusing me of advancing a conspiracy theory, by floating a conspiracy theory of your own. Can we put it down to them eating too many Mexican walking beans?

But you did.

[marko kok prong]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

No. But they reasonably expected their ASYLUM applications to be processed in a timely manner. 
"trump" has maliciously and deliberately STALLED that.

i agree but surely an asylum application is quite a long process,if Trump has done as you say i agree that is damn poor form. I am remembering my emigration process from UK to Australia,took around 2 months and that was considered superfast,mainly because it was well put together,the Officer told me,this made it easier for her. But some of these people may have sparse or no documentation,sure you can say anything you like,send me back i will be killed ect, but read the main article again one guy complains he can't earn good money in Mexico to send back to his family,so i would class him as an economic migrant not an asylum seeker. So the immigration officials have a very hard job. Also where does this stop,if they let in this lot how many will try next time,10,000 or 20,000 America is a big country but this is 2018,not 1918,the USA no longer wants or needs mass immigration. No i am not American,my sister however has lived there near on 30 years and i have spent a fair bit of time stateside,a wonderful country,with i always found very nice people in the main. My sister hates Trump,but she is not keen either on just flinging open the gates and letting in everyone.

[Jingthing]

Economic migrants are not legally allowed in at the border. Some should be at least for guest workers but that's a matter of comprehensive immigration reform, which sadly has been basically impossible in the U.S. political system (blame to go all around on that). There should be a better job in Central America to let people know that's not possible to discourage them from even trying. Even with legitimate asylum applications, surely the rules are overly harsh. The last I heard less than 10 percent were approved. Yes, indeed, "trump" has been stalling their processing in evil ways.

 

To wit --

Quote

Trump keeps making it harder for people to seek asylum legally

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/5/17428640/border-families-asylum-illegal

Edited November 29, 2018 by Jingthing

[guest879]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Economic migrants are not legally allowed in at the border. Some should be at least for guest workers but that's a matter of comprehensive immigration reform, which sadly has been basically impossible in the U.S. political system (blame to go all around on that). There should be a better job in Central America to let people know that's not possible to discourage them from even trying. Even with legitimate asylum applications, surely the rules are overly harsh. The last I heard less than 10 percent were approved. Yes, indeed, "trump" has been stalling their processing in evil ways.

 

To wit --

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/5/17428640/border-families-asylum-illegal

there is no evidence of trump making anything harder for anyone seeking asylum outside of America. the majority of the people at the boarder will have to go home. they have been used as a political pawn. suckered into believing California is a sanctuary for illegal immigrants. doubt those who financed them traveling north will cover their expenses to head back south. if anything hopefully Mexico has learnt that they need to stop people before they get into Mexico. 

[chama]

6 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Interesting post. Accusing me of advancing a conspiracy theory, by floating a conspiracy theory of your own. Can we put it down to them eating too many Mexican walking beans?

The endless flow of would be immigrants needs to stop. Perhaps by working to improve conditions in their home countries? But when you see a contributor with Muller's name superimposed over a Batman image you can be pretty sure they will not be endorsing anything done by Trump. The people involved must have known that the trip would be hard, should have known that coming across the border would be hard, and should now realize that money does not rain down from the sky in the United States. But...if they are truly interested in immigrating they should apply for immigration, the U.S. should do everything they can to approve\disapprove the application as quickly as possible and move on. At this point it may be beneficial to all to ask how many want to go back home and find a way to get them there. That may relieve some of the pressure on resources in their camp and leave only those that think they really have a chance at citizenship. Trump has also suggested that laws created when the U.S. was trying to populate a huge uninhabited land be revised. I believe that if that happened some of these people would not be so anxious to make the trip. 

 

One thing most of us can agree on is that something needs to be done to resolve this situation. No one should be living like this. But something also needs to be done to prevent reoccurrences. 

[vinegarbase]

14 hours ago, webfact said:

But he said the migrants have a right to request U.S. asylum

9 consulates and 1 embassy scattered throughout Mexico where they could apply have easily applied for asylum but they chose to come 2500 miles to Tijuana. They also had offers of asylum and jobs in Mexico only to refuse and complain. Only a complete fool would believe this is real. Even the interviewed migrants themselves said that the organizers promised them it would be easy to get into the USA and that there were work programs waiting for them. This was intentionally organized by people with evil agendas to destabilize the USA. They couldn't wait to get some staged photo ops at the border to distribute to corrupt news outlets around the world. 

[Jingthing]

The images favor "trump" invasion propaganda narrative. Enough with the moronic conspiracy theories that they were staged by the left.

 

 

Expansion about the "trump" brand of cruelty to all others, all opponents, particularly immigrants.

 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/the-cruelty-is-the-point/572104/

 

The Cruelty Is the Point

 

President Trump and his supporters find community by rejoicing in the suffering of those they hate and fear.

 

OCT 3, 2018

 

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[riclag]

1 hour ago, chama said:

The endless flow of would be immigrants needs to stop. Perhaps by working to improve conditions in their home countries? But when you see a contributor with Muller's name superimposed over a Batman image you can be pretty sure they will not be endorsing anything done by Trump. The people involved must have known that the trip would be hard, should have known that coming across the border would be hard, and should now realize that money does not rain down from the sky in the United States. But...if they are truly interested in immigrating they should apply for immigration, the U.S. should do everything they can to approve\disapprove the application as quickly as possible and move on. At this point it may be beneficial to all to ask how many want to go back home and find a way to get them there. That may relieve some of the pressure on resources in their camp and leave only those that think they really have a chance at citizenship. Trump has also suggested that laws created when the U.S. was trying to populate a huge uninhabited land be revised. I believe that if that happened some of these people would not be so anxious to make the trip. 

 

One thing most of us can agree on is that something needs to be done to resolve this situation. No one should be living like this. But something also needs to be done to prevent reoccurrences. 

Wrong poster sorry

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by riclag

[sanemax]

58 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The images favor "trump" invasion propaganda narrative. Enough with the moronic conspiracy theories that they were staged by the left.

Expansion about the "trump" brand of cruelty to all others, all opponents, particularly immigrants.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/the-cruelty-is-the-point/572104/

The Cruelty Is the Point

President Trump and his supporters find community by rejoicing in the suffering of those they hate and fear.

OCT 3, 2018

No one is "rejoicing" in the "suffering of others" though and theres no "hate" or "fear"

You are just using these people to attack Trump and his supporters .

I do have a feeling that these people are being used by ..........others

[Jingthing]

Again his brand is cruelty. His xenophobic base likes that and on immigration they think it's a deterrent.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[guest879]

21 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It's not the same situation at all. 

perhaps you could explain how you think it is different?

[Prissana Pescud]

23 hours ago, vinegarbase said:

9 consulates and 1 embassy scattered throughout Mexico where they could apply have easily applied for asylum but they chose to come 2500 miles to Tijuana. They also had offers of asylum and jobs in Mexico only to refuse and complain. Only a complete fool would believe this is real. Even the interviewed migrants themselves said that the organizers promised them it would be easy to get into the USA and that there were work programs waiting for them. This was intentionally organized by people with evil agendas to destabilize the USA. They couldn't wait to get some staged photo ops at the border to distribute to corrupt news outlets around the world. 

Mostly, I agree with your post. But not sure about the "intentionally organised" bit. You need to have some firm proof of this, not just a Trump twitter. 

 Also, I can't believe that a few thousand impoverished economic refugees is possible to "destabilise" the US. I think it would take many millions to do that.

Lastly, all journalists post news It is how they earn a living. Talking to a few economic refugees and submitting their views does not make the news outlets "corrupt"

How can these same outlets who present news from Trump be called corrupt? 

[Prissana Pescud]

7 hours ago, guest879 said:

perhaps you could explain how you think it is different?

I can answer on behalf of Jinthing. Nearly all of his posts I disagree with by the way.

The mostly all Muslim refugees from Syria and Iraq were in an active civil war and were welcomed into the EU by Ms Merkel. (Encouraged to)

 The mostly Christian economic refugees are leaving their central Americans to seek a better economic future.

They have not been told to expect a warm welcome by Mr Trump. (Discouraged to)

They are two different circumstances, neither of which is acceptable to me, but I do recognise the vast difference.

 I also doubt if these mostly Christian migrants has murder and mayhem built into their psyche. 

[Jingthing]

That's pretty good. Also Mexico and Central America are close neighbors to USA. Much of the USA used to be Mexico. Syria is not a neighbor to western Europe.

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[Prissana Pescud]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's pretty good. Also Mexico and Central America are close neighbors to USA. Much of the USA used to be Mexico. Syria is not a neighbor to western Europe.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Err, well it was almost good but even my simle explanation does not explain the machinations of Russia and US in the middle east. Nor why a lot of central and Sth America is in such a mess when it would have to be one of the richest continents in the world. Especially in actual potential wealth of the minerals, unused land use and the unused labour wealth of the population. Instead, the land is being abused by over zealous land clearing, the population is mostly lacking a basic education, corruption in the extreme flourishes and there is little in the way of any sort of basic freedom of expression and political engagement with the people. 

As for refugees of any sort, the basic concept is to flee from a country of direct individual persecution and war and proceed to the closest country of safe refuge. Once there, it is up to the UN to supervise a safe environment with financial assistance coming from countries whose best interest it is to help protect them and help establish a better prospect for them to return to their own countries. That is not happening

[guest879]

5 hours ago, Prissana Pescud said:

I can answer on behalf of Jinthing. Nearly all of his posts I disagree with by the way.

The mostly all Muslim refugees from Syria and Iraq were in an active civil war and were welcomed into the EU by Ms Merkel. (Encouraged to)

 The mostly Christian economic refugees are leaving their central Americans to seek a better economic future.

They have not been told to expect a warm welcome by Mr Trump. (Discouraged to)

They are two different circumstances, neither of which is acceptable to me, but I do recognise the vast difference.

 I also doubt if these mostly Christian migrants has murder and mayhem built into their psyche. 

the mostly Christian migrants (Mexicans) don't have murder and mayhem built into their psyche? but the migrants going to Europe do. seems like a pretty big difference. also most of the European migrants are sub Sarahian Africans also moving for economic reasons. Europe is becoming less accepting of the migrants. Italy, Hungary and Poland have closed their boarders. England is leaving the EU partly because of immigration. Either way Europe and America have the same essential problem. Masses of people who want to move in which will over whelm  their social welfare programs.