No Letter and no Money

[JackThompson]

23 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

The OP has been using a letter from embassy to extend. That means he has an income of at least 40k a month. Is that a pittance? 

 

Having a letter unfortunately does not necessarily mean he has an income.  Due to abuses of the system

He said "I live on my pensions," in his first post.  To get his letter from the British embassy, he was supplying sources of his income.  Let's give him the benefit of a doubt he has the minimum required income - though perhaps no way to prove it to immigration's satisfaction - and move forward from there.

 

12 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Yes, it is a pittance not even social security in the US.....

US Social security can be under 30K Baht /mo, sadly. 

 

18 minutes ago, ravip said:

In those circumstances, is it not the best option to stay in your own country?

The cost-of-living there would be considerably higher, for a comparable standard of living.

[marcusarelus]

8 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

He said "I live on my pensions," in his first post.  To get his letter from the British embassy, he was supplying sources of his income.  Let's give him the benefit of a doubt he has the minimum required income - though perhaps no way to prove it to immigration's satisfaction - and move forward from there.

 

US Social security can be under 30K Baht /mo, sadly. 

 

The cost-of-living there would be considerably higher, for a comparable standard of living.

Average Social Security is 45,000 baht per month with a maximum of 89,000 baht per month.

 

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/07/30/americans-average-social-security-at-age-62-66-and.aspx

[janclaes47]

26 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

US Social security can be under 30K Baht /mo, sadly.

 

26 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Average Social Security is 45,000 baht per month with a maximum of 89,000 baht per month.

 

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/07/30/americans-average-social-security-at-age-62-66-and.aspx

Let me guess, you want to play the smart arse, but have no idea about the meaning of average.

[geisha]

roger101, hi, I’ve been a few times to Vietnam, why not try it . Lots of plus points, easier to get to than Philippines, a bit safer, much better food, delicious in fact. The Vietnamese are lovely people lots of things to do there, lots of gorgeous places to visit. You could do a trip there if you haven’t been, see what you think. I’ve heard that rent is cheaper than here, and food is definitely cheaper. Beer too ,if you drink. Look at it this way, if you didn’t like it, you could always come back to Thailand or elsewhere. Where do you live in Thailand ? Have you thought of moving to a cheaper area and wait and see what the near future brings concerning paperwork  ?

Good luck. 

[marcusarelus]

21 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

 

Let me guess, you want to play the smart arse, but have no idea about the meaning of average.

A number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.

 

The average Social security recipient gets enough to qualify for the Marriage Visa income method.  Or close to the Retirement income method with a small amount deposited in the bank.  If those methods will be allowed without the embassy letter. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by marcusarelus

[madmen]

roger101, hi, I’ve been a few times to Vietnam, why not try it . Lots of plus points, easier to get to than Philippines, a bit safer, much better food, delicious in fact. The Vietnamese are lovely people lots of things to do there, lots of gorgeous places to visit. You could do a trip there if you haven’t been, see what you think. I’ve heard that rent is cheaper than here, and food is definitely cheaper. Beer too ,if you drink. Look at it this way, if you didn’t like it, you could always come back to Thailand or elsewhere. Where do you live in Thailand ? Have you thought of moving to a cheaper area and wait and see what the near future brings concerning paperwork  ?

Good luck. 

The only things you got right is its closer to the Philippines but who cares about that it's a dump and are you gonna swim to it or fly there? and the beer is cheaper

 

No offense but the rest is totall nonsense. If it were amazing both you and me would be there.

 

[marqus12]

55 minutes ago, madmen said:

The only things you got right is its closer to the Philippines but who cares about that it's a dump and are you gonna swim to it or fly there? and the beer is cheaper

 

No offense but the rest is totall nonsense. If it were amazing both you and me would be there.

 

Thailand Philippines and Vietnam are comparable
something is better something is worse.
People choose Thailand because they know this place
and have some obligations or investments.
But in my opinion in recent years Thailand has dropped

to 3th and even 5th position when it comes to a 'good place

to live for expat in SEA'

[geisha]

madmen, did  I say that Vietnam was amazing ? Sorry , the rest I didn’t quite understand, “ swim to it, fly there” ? Is Thailand the only place in the world for you ? This post was about possibilities, and Vietnam is definately not a dump, and does have great food. 

Maybe you didn’t like it, you’re not everyone ! No offense. 

[madmen]

madmen, did  I say that Vietnam was amazing ? Sorry , the rest I didn’t quite understand, “ swim to it, fly there” ? Is Thailand the only place in the world for you ? This post was about possibilities, and Vietnam is definately not a dump, and does have great food. 
Maybe you didn’t like it, you’re not everyone ! No offense. 

I said Phillipines was a dump. Swim or fly meant how is it relevant that the Phillipines is closer? Flying from thailand or Vietnam to the Philippines makes little difference unless you swim.. Tongue in cheek

Rents are just as expensive, infrastructure and public transport is woeful.. You want to compare food? The variety in Thailand is mind blowing and food courts in hundreds of malls are 40 baht a dish so how is food in Vietnam cheaper?

I've been there many times but your giving really poor information that somebody may take as true.

[DrJack54]

This whole thread is just crap. The op stated "where move to now"

What load of rubbish. The letter gig has not even panned out yet. As for next extension can use agent. I posted in reply 3. As for future he can use agent (20k). 

All the advice about relocate to Philippines or Vietnam etc is just bs. He can't even afford other methods of extensions in Los and you suggest to this old poor fella change country. Read between lines of op. Where next! Is this a wind up?

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by DrJack54
Error

[assayer]

On 12/2/2018 at 4:12 PM, cyberfarang said:

I think in the whole history of Thai visa there has never been so many threads opened on the same subject, many asking the same questions over and over again, hoping to receive answers they want to hear.

 

A question for the OP: you claim not having enough funds to even raise 400000 baht ($12000) to obtain your yearly extension and I am assuming that as you are living on pension incomes you`re not a young guy. So have you planned or thought about what might happen if you get seriously ill or involved in an accident, how you would pay for your medical expenses? Are you hoping to obtain your medical fees with a Go Fund Me or from some charitable organisation? This is part of why immigration are insisting westerners have some funds put by in Thailand for such occurrences that is in your best interests to do so. 

 

As Thai immigration start tightening up and enforcing the immigration procedures more and more, many expats will be considering moving to other S.E. Asian countries. Last year I visited Vietnam and Cambodia and while in those countries got chatting to expats. They all told me that as more westerners start staying in those countries looking for relaxed lifestyles for a pittance, the rules are being tightened up there as well.

 

I can never understand why elderly westerners would even consider retiring abroad without enough funds put by for a rainy day, living on a month to month basis and having no plan B for changing bank rates and changing immigration policies, then blame immigration and others for their predicaments.

 

I am not deliberately going out of my way to be malicious, I am only talking common sense that everyone is responsible for their own lives and no one owes anybody else a certain lifestyle and a living.  My dad once told me, you make your own bed and you must lie on it and he was right.

Oh Mr. millions in the bank, how about loaning those of us who do not have the means to put 400,000 away in a Thai bank some of your so well planned for available cash? There are many of us who don't have the means for this but it doesn't mean we are destitute. Why did we leave our home countries you say then, well it's because of the 1%ers who made the cost of living in our home countries so high that we can't afford to stay there when we retire. We had to look for an alternative place to live out our remaining lives.

So you can look down your nose as much as you like, but in the end we all put our pants on one leg at a time. You are no better than or worse than me, maybe have more money, but it doesn't make you any happier than me.

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, madmen said:

I said Phillipines was a dump. Swim or fly meant how is it relevant that the Phillipines is closer? Flying from thailand or Vietnam to the Philippines makes little difference unless you swim.. Tongue in cheek

Rents are just as expensive, infrastructure and public transport is woeful.. You want to compare food? The variety in Thailand is mind blowing and food courts in hundreds of malls are 40 baht a dish so how is food in Vietnam cheaper?

I've been there many times but your giving really poor information that somebody may take as true.

So now, after saying there is  food in Sydney which is under $10, you are praising Thai food for its variety? The last time I looked at the baht/AUD exchange rate, 40 baht was less than $2.

The so-called affordability of Sydney food - do pensioners there access said food by renting a dumpster to live in? You are being critical of poor information?

Please keep posting - you get more amusing with every one. You've certainly picked a good sobriquet.

 

[5633572526]

On 12/2/2018 at 4:12 PM, cyberfarang said:

I think in the whole history of Thai visa there has never been so many threads opened on the same subject, many asking the same questions over and over again, hoping to receive answers they want to hear.

 

A question for the OP: you claim not having enough funds to even raise 400000 baht ($12000) to obtain your yearly extension and I am assuming that as you are living on pension incomes you`re not a young guy. So have you planned or thought about what might happen if you get seriously ill or involved in an accident, how you would pay for your medical expenses? Are you hoping to obtain your medical fees with a Go Fund Me or from some charitable organisation? This is part of why immigration are insisting westerners have some funds put by in Thailand for such occurrences that is in your best interests to do so. 

 

As Thai immigration start tightening up and enforcing the immigration procedures more and more, many expats will be considering moving to other S.E. Asian countries. Last year I visited Vietnam and Cambodia and while in those countries got chatting to expats. They all told me that as more westerners start staying in those countries looking for relaxed lifestyles for a pittance, the rules are being tightened up there as well.

 

I can never understand why elderly westerners would even consider retiring abroad without enough funds put by for a rainy day, living on a month to month basis and having no plan B for changing bank rates and changing immigration policies, then blame immigration and others for their predicaments.

 

I am not deliberately going out of my way to be malicious, I am only talking common sense that everyone is responsible for their own lives and no one owes anybody else a certain lifestyle and a living.  My dad once told me, you make your own bed and you must lie on it and he was right.

There are many people in the world living paycheck to paycheck and I suspect many here who have relied on the income letter will have trouble “seasoning” the money required. He is probably here because whatever he gets goes farther here which is the draw for many. You are indeed being malicious and assuming the worst of someone you don’t know.

[garyk]

9 minutes ago, 5633572526 said:

There are many people in the world living paycheck to paycheck and I suspect many here who have relied on the income letter will have trouble “seasoning” the money required. He is probably here because whatever he gets goes farther here which is the draw for many. You are indeed being malicious and assuming the worst of someone you don’t know.

Well put and very true, many people in America get hit hard by divorce, crooks in the stock market. It is endless.

Thailand is billed on the internet as a cheap place to live, and have quality life. And, IMO that is the case.

Really the only thing that has changed is the bureaucracy. 

 

Now with so many other countries wanting the tourist and expat business. Thailand has fallen out of the top places to retire by quite a bit. 

No retired person in their right mind wants to put up with this nonsense IMO. Thailand will continue to fall down the scale of quality and expat friendly countries to retire in.

[marcusarelus]

9 minutes ago, garyk said:

Well put and very true, many people in America get hit hard by divorce, crooks in the stock market. It is endless.

Thailand is billed on the internet as a cheap place to live, and have quality life. And, IMO that is the case.

Really the only thing that has changed is the bureaucracy. 

 

Now with so many other countries wanting the tourist and expat business. Thailand has fallen out of the top places to retire by quite a bit. 

No retired person in their right mind wants to put up with this nonsense IMO. Thailand will continue to fall down the scale of quality and expat friendly countries to retire in.

The choice comes down to Thailand or Thailand for old guys who require high tech health care with the possible exception of Penang.  All of my major costs were locked in 10 years ago so recent developments don't bother me.

[ozmeldo]

On 12/4/2018 at 12:01 AM, rutteketuut said:

Even if you have the funds it is hard to get an extension of stay nowadays. I had all the required documents and 400000 thb in the bank for longer than 2 months and was refused an extension because now they wanted photos of a Thai witness with my wife and me in the bedroom, living room and outside of the house showing house number. They also wanted a copy of their housebook and id card. Next day we went back to immigration office and told them we could not find anybody who wanted to do that. That was last Friday in Jomtien.  The io than told my wife that Thai witness also had to come to immigration office together with us. Io said come back next week but than I was in overstay. I asked her if could give me 60 days, that also seemed to be a problem but I finally got the 60 days. Don't know what I'm gonna do next. All that hassle to get only 60 days. I have my own house and live here whole year.

National immigration really needs to sort Jomtien out. It's a cesspool of corruption and confusion.

 

Pattaya is now a huge city full of very intinerant people. Further, it's a city full of very shonky people. It's quite likely that a couple would not have aquaintences nearby, more so that want to bother with photos and the idea that a few Thai should come to a police station, take a day off work no less - to vouch for a marriage between a foreigner and an out of towner is patently absurd and farcical.

 

This needs to be fixed, it's an impossible hurdle. Absolutely ridiculous af.

Edited December 5, 2018 by ozmeldo

[marcusarelus]

8 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

National immigration really needs to sort Jomtien out. It's a cesspool of corruption and confusion.

 

Pattaya is now a huge city full of very intinerant people. Further, it's a city full of very shonky people. It's quite likely that a couple would not have aquaintences nearby, more so that want to bother with photos and the idea that a few Thai should come to a police station, take a day off work no less - to vouch for a marriage between a foreigner and an out of towner is patently absurd and farcical.

 

This needs to be fixed, it's an impossible hurdle. Absolutely ridiculous af.

First thing needs to be fixed is apply 30 days in advance so you have time to deal with the problems.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, ozmeldo said:

National immigration really needs to sort Jomtien out. It's a cesspool of corruption and confusion.

 

Pattaya is now a huge city full of very intinerant people. Further, it's a city full of very shonky people. It's quite likely that a couple would not have aquaintences nearby, more so that want to bother with photos and the idea that a few Thai should come to a police station, take a day off work no less - to vouch for a marriage between a foreigner and an out of towner is patently absurd and farcical.

 

This needs to be fixed, it's an impossible hurdle. Absolutely ridiculous af.

Yes, my wife's friends all worked daytime-jobs, so they were not available for doing this "witness" bit. 

 

We used one of the night-shift security-guards from our condo, who was getting off-work at the same time we went to immigration in the morning.  This is an ideal witness, who sees us every evening and morning coming and going.  But, of course, since we were asking them to essentially work extra hours, we paid them for this "over-time."

 

I was still denied the extension, based on impossible-to-get landlord docs (moved the goalposts at each attempt to try to force me to an agent-payoff).  But, I think if I owned my own condo, I would have gotten the extension on the 3rd attempt - which is what others report (2nd or 3rd try, since they change the picture requirements, etc every year).

[roo860]

Yes, my wife's friends all worked daytime-jobs, so they were not available for doing this "witness" bit. 
 
We used one of the night-shift security-guards from our condo, who was getting off-work at the same time we went to immigration in the morning.  This is an ideal witness, who sees us every evening and morning coming and going.  But, of course, since we were asking them to essentially work extra hours, we paid them for this "over-time."
 
I was still denied the extension, based on impossible-to-get landlord docs (moved the goalposts at each attempt to try to force me to an agent-payoff).  But, I think if I owned my own condo, I would have gotten the extension on the 3rd attempt - which is what others report (2nd or 3rd try, since they change the picture requirements, etc every year).

So you should have paid the security guy, probably getting very little salary.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, roo860 said:

On 12/5/2018 at 9:48 AM, JackThompson said:

...

We used one of the night-shift security-guards from our condo, who was getting off-work at the same time we went to immigration in the morning.  This is an ideal witness, who sees us every evening and morning coming and going.  But, of course, since we were asking them to essentially work extra hours, we paid them for this "over-time."

...

So you should have paid the security guy, probably getting very little salary.

I did - and they earned more for that couple hours than for their full-shift. 

Edited December 8, 2018 by JackThompson

[whitemouse]

On 12/2/2018 at 4:12 PM, cyberfarang said:

 

 

I can never understand why elderly westerners would even consider retiring abroad without enough funds put by for a rainy day, living on a month to month basis and having no plan B for changing bank rates and changing immigration policies, then blame immigration and others for their predicaments.

 

 

 

OP is asking advice where to move, what "you can never understand" is not an issue here. It's actually none of your business where man chooses to live.

 

OP, I was in Saigon, Vietnam recently, much much better than anything in Cambodia. Also small beach resort town Tung Vau is 2 hour drive away, true beach with ocean waves and wind. I met an American who moved to Vung Tau 1 month ago, he is a teacher, he told me his room rent is $100 USD. Everything else in Vietnam is as cheap, or cheaper than Thailand. Red Marlboro in 711 cost $1 USD, that is 3 times lower from Thai price. Call can of beer 50 Cents, half price of Thailand. Street food about half price from Thai, not as tasty as Thai food, but far better than Khmer food. 

No street violence, locals are friendly, most do not speak any English. What you don't encounter is hostility or general rude behaviour towards foreigner, not once was there even a moment.

 

You should go and take a look, direct flight from DMK to Saigon (Ho Chi Minh City)  is usually around 1400b one way, if you happen to be in Phnom Penh there are several bus companies offering $9 one way ride, about 6 hours.

 

I, too went to look around Vietnam in case Tourist Visa is becoming harder to manage, and I only need 7 months out if the year here, if Thailand becomes undoable, Vietnam is great place to stay long term!

[Naam]

20 minutes ago, whitemouse said:

On 12/2/2018 at 4:12 PM, cyberfarang said:

 

 

I can never understand why elderly westerners would even consider retiring abroad without enough funds put by for a rainy day, living on a month to month basis and having no plan B for changing bank rates and changing immigration policies, then blame immigration and others for their predicaments.

 

OP is asking advice where to move, what "you can never understand" is not an issue here. It's actually none of your business where man chooses to live.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, whitemouse said:

Everything else in Vietnam is as cheap, or cheaper than Thailand.

Bar girls charge double, but Vung Tau has hordes of them to choose from.

Everything else I agree with.

Edited December 9, 2018 by BritManToo

[Dick Crank]

On 12/2/2018 at 1:12 AM, cyberfarang said:

I can never understand why elderly westerners would even consider retiring abroad without enough funds put by for a rainy day, living on a month to month basis and having no plan B for changing bank rates and changing immigration policies, then blame immigration and others for their predicaments.

they probably wouldn't, the choice is either staying in asia and getting more for your money or staying in your home country and paying more for everything.

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, Dick Crank said:

they probably wouldn't, the choice is either staying in asia and getting more for your money or staying in your home country and paying more for everything.

Except for medical treatment brought on by all those cheap cigarettes and beer!

[tideout]

On 12/4/2018 at 9:19 AM, madmen said:

I said Phillipines was a dump. Swim or fly meant how is it relevant that the Phillipines is closer? Flying from thailand or Vietnam to the Philippines makes little difference unless you swim.. Tongue in cheek

Rents are just as expensive, infrastructure and public transport is woeful.. You want to compare food? The variety in Thailand is mind blowing and food courts in hundreds of malls are 40 baht a dish so how is food in Vietnam cheaper?

I've been there many times but your giving really poor information that somebody may take as true.

I've been in Vietnam for almost  four years. The food here can be cheap but I know few expats who don't limit themselves to a known cart in their alley. Poor food handling is one of the primary reasons tourists don't return here. The variety of foods here in Ho Chi Minh has improved over the years but it's not even a shadow of what you can get in a Thai mall let alone other places. I can think of six people who've had to return to their native countries to "finish" or complete a medical procedure here. MRI's and biopsies are routinely sent to Singapore if you've got a concerned western doctor you go to. If you're going to chance living here go to the middle of the coast, Da Nang, Hue etc.. Ho Chi Minh is Jakarta-lite. Polluted, congested, poor infrastructure and constant non-stop construction (noise, further pollution). Don't be overly lured into something that it isn't just because the Visa's easier....there's are reasons for it. 

[bkk6060]

3 hours ago, tideout said:

I've been in Vietnam for almost  four years. The food here can be cheap but I know few expats who don't limit themselves to a known cart in their alley. Poor food handling is one of the primary reasons tourists don't return here. The variety of foods here in Ho Chi Minh has improved over the years but it's not even a shadow of what you can get in a Thai mall let alone other places. I can think of six people who've had to return to their native countries to "finish" or complete a medical procedure here. MRI's and biopsies are routinely sent to Singapore if you've got a concerned western doctor you go to. If you're going to chance living here go to the middle of the coast, Da Nang, Hue etc.. Ho Chi Minh is Jakarta-lite. Polluted, congested, poor infrastructure and constant non-stop construction (noise, further pollution). Don't be overly lured into something that it isn't just because the Visa's easier....there's are reasons for it. 

One of the better more intelligent ( and honest) posts I have read on this.

I do not get live in a place because the Visa is easier??

You are talking about your life and lifestyle which are much less in some of these places mentioned.

And on the big picture, none of these other places are that much less expensive.

If I was pinching pennies for Visa reasons I would do what I could to save up and use an agent here.

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

One of the better more intelligent ( and honest) posts I have read on this.

I do not get live in a place because the Visa is easier??

You are talking about your life and lifestyle which are much less in some of these places mentioned.

And on the big picture, none of these other places are that much less expensive.

If I was pinching pennies for Visa reasons I would do what I could to save up and use an agent here.

I had ruled out posting again in this thread because about 14 pages ago i posted #3ish, "use an agent". Some of the above posts about Vietnam etc, I have found interesting. I agree with a couple of members above who enjoy Saigon. I find it great joint for break from bkk. I go every 3or 4 weeks for last 5 years. Now to the point.

Lot of people have been stating " easy visa rules in Vietnam" please direct/advise me how you do that, because being AU, I do not have the visa exempt many countries receive. I cannot get the 12 month available ONLY to USA. (BTW expensive). Next wed I go again and need new 3 month multiple anyway, I don't find it east at all. I contacted a "visa agent" to be fair I'm the one that suggested business visa. (In fact asked same q in visas to other countries forum") zero replies....anyway I said..."I don't have a sponsor letter, in the main because I'm not doing business" he replied .." No problem. We get you a business visa, one month, to enter then obtain a temport resident card" Something like that. 

Then we get you annual ongoing business visa. 

Guess what....I'm using an agent, same as most likely op would use if he moved to Vietnam. BTW I can imagine this costing more than staying in Thailand and using agent for 800k in bank, I suggested in post 3

This thread reminds me of the book catch 22

Edited December 10, 2018 by DrJack54
Error

[tideout]

18 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I had ruled out posting again in this thread because about 14 pages ago i posted #3ish, "use an agent". Some of the above posts about Vietnam etc, I have found interesting. I agree with a couple of members above who enjoy Saigon. I find it great joint for break from bkk. I go every 3or 4 weeks for last 5 years. Now to the point.

Lot of people have been stating " easy visa rules in Vietnam" please direct/advise me how you do that, because being AU, I do not have the visa exempt many countries receive. I cannot get the 12 month available ONLY to USA. (BTW expensive). Next wed I go again and need new 3 month multiple anyway, I don't find it east at all. I contacted a "visa agent" to be fair I'm the one that suggested business visa. (In fact asked same q in visas to other countries forum") zero replies....anyway I said..."I don't have a sponsor letter, in the main because I'm not doing business" he replied .." No problem. We get you a business visa, one month, to enter then obtain a temport resident card" Something like that. 

Then we get you annual ongoing business visa. 

Guess what....I'm using an agent, same as most likely op would use if he moved to Vietnam. BTW I can imagine this costing more than staying in Thailand and using agent for 800k in bank, I suggested in post 3

This thread reminds me of the book catch 22

I may not be the best source of this as I've been here on working visas but you might try getting a business visa and then getting an agent to extend it. There are a number of them in HCM often on Facebook. If you message me I'll direct you to a well known source (legit, or as legit as it needs to be) here in HCM. Next time you're here you can stop by their cafe. If you're paying more to stay in Vietnam than Thailand (especially over a year) then you're getting ripped off. Currently, Vietnam seems to be becoming the new plan b for every questionable person from BKK to Jakarta......The "entertainment district" or backpacker area is a sliver of Khao San without any of the charm but to each his own. Get up to the middle of the country and try to avoid the constant hustling and grifting of HCM. Cheers.

[metisdead]

A post containing comments on moderation has been removed.