Please clarify the "money in the bank" method..

[sunnyboy2018]

On 12/5/2018 at 5:03 PM, JackThompson said:

The combo method is an embassy-letter showing mo-income plus some seasoned bank-money.  If you take your embassy-letter mo-income and multiply it by 12, then add the seasoned bank-money, the total of these must equal 800K or more.

 

Notes:

• The "combo" method is only applicable to retirement-extensions - not marriage-based. 
• The law doesn't say the bank-money portion of a combo-method needs to be seasoned, but it does in practice. 
• IOs can ask for further backup-proof in addition to an embassy-letter, but only one case (ever) has been reported of a successful extension based on foreign-income without an embassy-letter as the primary source of income-evidence.

Thanks for your reply. I was assumming a printed statement from the bank showing 12 months of payments plus anything else on deposit and a passbook showing amount currently in bank.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Thank you. But for what yearly period? If my extension for renewal is May 2018 is the annual income from may 2017 to may 2018?

The annual income is only a calculated number based upon the proof of your monthly income you will show immigration on the day you apply for the extension. It is not for any fixed period of time.

[sunnyboy2018]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

The annual income is only a calculated number based upon the proof of your monthly income you will show immigration on the day you apply for the extension. It is not for any fixed period of time.

Thank you for your reply and Im sorry to seem dim but most month I transfer funds into my Thai bank account varying from 60k to 80k. This is aprx 800k per year. As I still have time to make more monthly deposits which month will the IO use to determine my annual income.  I had assumed I just added up all the past 12 months of deposits from a bank printout then divided them by 12 to get monthly income. This, in my case would exceed 65k per month. If there  was a shortfall I still have 1 to 4 months to deposit more. Thus I had assumed bank statements from the previous year would demonstrate my average income and any money currently in the account. Sorry to ask you a confusing question. Thanks for your advice

 

 

[sunnyboy2018]

On 12/5/2018 at 5:16 PM, ubonjoe said:

That means your annual income by multiplying your monthly income by 12. For example annual income of 600k baht plus 200k baht in the bank  to reach the 800k baht total required.

Thank you. Can  I use bank statements to prove my anuall income

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Thank you. Can  I use bank statements to prove my anuall income

You only have to prove a monthly income and immigration will multiply it by 12 to get your annual income.

At this time immigration may still want proof of your income from your embassy which normally will only be for your monthly income.

[wgdanson]

32 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The annual income is only a calculated number based upon the proof of your monthly income you will show immigration on the day you apply for the extension. It is not for any fixed period of time.

Please Joe, for how many months do you need to show a monthly income. Would 3 months @ Bht 50,000 be enough to calculate Bht 600,000 annually?

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Please Joe, for how many months do you need to show a monthly income. Would 3 months @ Bht 50,000 be enough to calculate Bht 600,000 annually?

As I wrote before at this time it would be the amount shown on an income letter from your embassy times 12.

If immigration starts accepting transfers for 3 months they would use that number.

[sunnyboy2018]

32 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You only have to prove a monthly income and immigration will multiply it by 12 to get your annual income.

At this time immigration may still want proof of your income from your embassy which normally will only be for your monthly income.

I thought the BE and others had stopped issuing ILs. I wont have 800k in my Thai bank by May when my retirement extension is due but have imported this amount in the last year. Given the lack of BE Ils I am unclear what to do?

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

I thought the BE and others had stopped issuing ILs. I wont have 800k in my Thai bank by May when my retirement extension is due but have imported this amount in the last year. Given the lack of BE Ils I am unclear what to do?

Other than the Danish embassy the others are still issuing proof of income until the 1st of January (Australia the 7th). The UK embassy will stop accepting application on the 12th.

If you get a letter now you can use it for your extension in May since they will be accepted for 6 months from the date of issue.

[sunnyboy2018]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Other than the Danish embassy the others are still issuing proof of income until the 1st of January (Australia the 7th). The UK embassy will stop accepting application on the 12th.

If you get a letter now you can use it for your extension in May since they will be accepted for 6 months from the date of issue.

Thank you but I would not be able to get to BKK until Monday and have no idea what is involved in getting POI letter. Or How long it takes or what documents I have to provide. Sorry to sound so wet!

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Thank you but I would not be able to get to BKK until Monday and have no idea what is involved in getting POI letter. Or How long it takes or what documents I have to provide. Sorry to sound so wet!

You have to apply by mail or email to the UK embassy. 

See: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-obtain-a-pensionincome-letter-for-thai-immigration

[sunnyboy2018]

34 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You have to apply by mail or email to the UK embassy. 

See: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-obtain-a-pensionincome-letter-for-thai-immigration

Thank you. I have just checked that out but am confused about my proof of income document as my income comes from a variety of streams, eg property rentals as well as a small pension. So how do I prove income from property rentals or do I just write it on the form?

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Thank you. I have just checked that out but am confused about my proof of income document as my income comes from a variety of streams, eg property rentals as well as a small pension. So how do I prove income from property rentals or do I just write it on the form?

You send copies of bank statements that show your income going into them. Normally 3 months is enough.

[sunnyboy2018]

Thank you for your time.  Assuming its too late to organise all this paperwork in two days what are the likely options next year? Os is that a question impossible to answer?

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Thank you for your time.  Assuming its too late to organise all this paperwork in two days what are the likely options next year? Os is that a question impossible to answer?

If you can download bank statement from online banking they will be accepted. Try sending the application by email.

For the year after next year my crystal ball is little fuzzy. But I think the money going into a Thai bank will be accepted.

[sunnyboy2018]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If you can download bank statement from online banking they will be accepted. Try sending the application by email.

For the year after next year my crystal ball is little fuzzy. But I think the money going into a Thai bank will be accepted.

By IO or embassy?

[sunnyboy2018]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

You have to apply by mail or email to the UK embassy. 

See: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-obtain-a-pensionincome-letter-for-thai-immigration

They stop issuing them 12th December or 12 January

[skatewash]

9 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

They stop issuing them 12th December or 12 January

12th of December is the last date to apply at the BE (to give them time to produce all letters by the end of the year).

US Embassy is producing the letters until the end of the year.

 

Australian Embassy is producing the letters until early January 2019.

Danish Embassy, nevermind, too late (at least they didn't retroactively claw back the ones they have already produced ???? )

Time is of the essence, don't wait till the last minute.

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

By IO or embassy?

By immigration since at this time the embassy is saying they will no longer issue them.

[sunnyboy2018]

4 minutes ago, skatewash said:

12th of December is the last date to apply at the BE (to give them time to produce all letters by the end of the year).

US Embassy is producing the letters until the end of the year.

 

Australian Embassy is producing the letters until early January 2019.

Danish Embassy, nevermind, too late (at least they didn't retroactively claw back the ones they have already produced ???? )

Time is of the essence, don't wait till the last minute.

Its too much like hard work. I retired to relax actually not to be rushing around doing mindless paperwork. I will wait and see what develops or see if an agent can help but as my visa runs out in May its a good time to return to Europe and leaves plenty of time to pack.  But thanks for the advice.  

[OZEMADE]

This may help as I got this from Jomtien Immigration today.

See attachment

Documents required for retirement etc.pdf

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Its too much like hard work. I retired to relax actually not to be rushing around doing mindless paperwork.

Me too, but Thailand seems to have other ideas. Extensions, Embassy letters, Ministerial Stamps, Bank Letters, 90 Day reports, TM 30s, re-entry permits, even when I get a new passport they want a confirmation it isn't a fake one. Have I missed any? 

[superal]

12 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Me too, but Thailand seems to have other ideas. Extensions, Embassy letters, Ministerial Stamps, Bank Letters, 90 Day reports, TM 30s, re-entry permits, even when I get a new passport they want a confirmation it isn't a fake one. Have I missed any? 

Brown envelopes , agents fees , late 90 day reporting fines , consistently inconsistent rules , non consideration of farangs liquid assets ,  lack of info from the B.E. / T.I. as to future rules . 

 

BTW a friend in Hong Kong went to the Thai consulate to ensure that he had the correct papers for P.O.I. visa . He was told " not interested in your papers , we want to see the 800k in your bank  and because you are a H/K resident the money can lay in either a H/K or Thai bank account " He was happy with that as a Thai bank for him was a no no .

[Pattaya46]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Me too, but Thailand seems to have other ideas. Extensions, Embassy letters, Ministerial Stamps, Bank Letters, 90 Day reports, TM 30s, re-entry permits, even when I get a new passport they want a confirmation it isn't a fake one. Have I missed any? 

2 hours ago, superal said:

Brown envelopes , agents fees , late 90 day reporting fines , consistently inconsistent rules , non consideration of farangs liquid assets ,  lack of info from the B.E. / T.I. as to future rules . //

 

Why guys are you living in Thailand if your favourite pastime is to criticize Thailand ??? 

 

For me :

Extensions : 5 minutes in Immigration Office every year

Embassy letters : easy and sent by mail

Ministerial Stamps : never required

Bank Letters : not needed

90 Day reports : 3 minutes online every 76 days

TM 30s : not required

Re-entry permits : at airport when leaving

Brown envelopes : never

Agents fees : never

Late 90 day reporting fines : never

Consistently inconsistent rules : ? not concerned

Non consideration of farangs liquid assets : What about your 800k ?

Lack of info from the B.E. / T.I. as to future rules : no future rules planned

 

[JackThompson]

 

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

Why guys are you living in Thailand if your favourite pastime is to criticize Thailand

Speaking for myself, I live in Thailand for all the many reasons that don't involve "Go to an agent to pay us off," shenanigans.  Those who are not yet targeted, due to which office they use, or how they have qualified for their extensions to-date, should consider themselves fortunate.

 

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

Embassy letters : easy and sent by mail

Not sent by mail, ever, for many nationalities.

No Longer Available at all, for many, soon (which, just coincidentally, will drive-up agent-use).

Edited December 8, 2018 by JackThompson

[JTXR]

I had been planning to use the income method (or, actually the combo method: the letter from US embassy with my real income + the small difference in my Thai bank account).  Like many people, I preferred that option to the option of tying up 800K, which could make more in interest/dividends back in the US.  Now, though, the new uncertainties surrounding the income method make it better for me to go the 800K for 3 months route. 

I agree that some folks who have been using the 800K method seem to denigrate those who prefer the income method but who are now thrown for a loop by the new uncertainty.  That's unfair.  There are valid reasons to prefer the income route, and I don't think it's "moaning" to be concerned that this route seems a lot riskier now.

In any event, for me, I'm just going to eat the interest/dividends I might have made keeping 800K in the U.S. and change my thinking.  The "lost" interest/dividends are just another cost of staying in Thailand, the cost of certainty.  Instead of 800K, it's really 800K + around 4%.  So be it.

 

[farangx]

4 hours ago, superal said:

Brown envelopes , agents fees , late 90 day reporting fines , consistently inconsistent rules , non consideration of farangs liquid assets ,  lack of info from the B.E. / T.I. as to future rules . 

 

BTW a friend in Hong Kong went to the Thai consulate to ensure that he had the correct papers for P.O.I. visa . He was told " not interested in your papers , we want to see the 800k in your bank  and because you are a H/K resident the money can lay in either a H/K or Thai bank account " He was happy with that as a Thai bank for him was a no no .

I been using the 800K deposit in a Thai bank for 3 months for all my extensions, which has been all the while consistent and seemed so in the future.  So I am not affected by any rule changes, okay maybe map to my house last year but no map this year and no photo of my house last year but photo to my house this year.  But TI been nice, they let me furnished that when I collect my passport the next day.

 

Though I dislike leaving that much money in a Thai bank, I have no reason to think the big banks here will do a Lehman in the next 3 months.  Anyway the 800K is free to go wherever it likes after 3 months of inaction. 

 

I don't know if I can do the same with a country in the EU or any English speaking countries, but if any of you do let me know.  I like options. TIA ....

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, farangx said:

I been using the 800K deposit in a Thai bank for 3 months for all my extensions, which has been all the while consistent and seemed so in the future.  So I am not affected by any rule changes ...

 

I don't know if I can do the same with a country in the EU or any English speaking countries, but if any of you do let me know.  I like options. TIA ....

If traveling to a country where wages are comparable or higher than those in your passport-country and/or where handouts / social-services could be abused, you could expect additional scrutiny.  Only a very few countries with lower wage-levels than your passport-country will not welcome you to stay as long/frequently as you wish to stay.

Edited December 8, 2018 by JackThompson

[farangx]

34 minutes ago, JTXR said:

In any event, for me, I'm just going to eat the interest/dividends I might have made keeping 800K in the U.S. and change my thinking.  The "lost" interest/dividends are just another cost of staying in Thailand, the cost of certainty.  Instead of 800K, it's really 800K + around 4%.  So be it.

 

Your "lost" of 4% is still affordable because you still gain 12% for the year.  You don't lose your 800k.

Edited December 8, 2018 by farangx

[sunnyboy2018]

5 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

 

Why guys are you living in Thailand if your favourite pastime is to criticize Thailand ??? 

 

For me :

Extensions : 5 minutes in Immigration Office every year

Embassy letters : easy and sent by mail

Ministerial Stamps : never required

Bank Letters : not needed

90 Day reports : 3 minutes online every 76 days

TM 30s : not required

Re-entry permits : at airport when leaving

Brown envelopes : never

Agents fees : never

Late 90 day reporting fines : never

Consistently inconsistent rules : ? not concerned

Non consideration of farangs liquid assets : What about your 800k ?

Lack of info from the B.E. / T.I. as to future rules : no future rules planned

 

I am not really criticizing Thailand but I did not come here to take orders from men in uniforms or be bothered by mindless paperwork.  I am happy to pay agent fees. They do a good job. The IO in Jomtien does a good job. But after 30 years comimg here and living here I am not prepared to conform to idiocy in a place that is becoming increasingly joyless, expensive and authoritarian. I recently spent 3 months in Europe, it was great and I only returned here reluctantly. I want to open a small bar, I like to work part time when I feel like it but here I cannot. I like to drink in bars without TV screens flickering or mindless sport being promoted. I like to hear real music not MTV driven Hip Hop etc. I was in Bangkok recently. It was a nightmare of plastic shopping malls connected by overhead trains. A dystopian Metropolis. It used to be fantastic and I loved it. I can tolerate this but I aint gonna struggle to fight to be here. A wise man told me 30 years ago that the only reason to tolerate Thailand is the girls. As the girly scene is changing also, this for me is another reason for not bothering to expend energy on getting a visa.  I apolgise for digressing from the main subject of this thread but regarding white people staying here on a long time basis - 'It aint over but the writings on the wall. The future is short term tourists from India, China and the 'Stans'. I will keep and eye on visa developments. Good Luck to all and thanks for answering questions especially UJ.

Edited December 8, 2018 by sunnyboy2018
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