12 Thais arrested trying to re-enter kingdom illegally after gambling losses

[rethaier]

4 hours ago, madmitch said:

Where's Big Joke? How could he miss a photo opportunity like this?

 

4 hours ago, madmitch said:

Where's Big Joke? How could he miss a photo opportunity like this?

Why would Big Joke be interested in Thais crossing without a passport?

 

[rethaier]

10 hours ago, fruitman said:

And what about making thailand look bad internationally??

 

1800 baht for entering illegally is A LOT cheaper than buying a real visa....

Did you even read the story?

[Katia]

2 hours ago, les Dennis said:

So they commit a crime in Cambodia, and immigration let them back in knowing that they have effectively lost their passports in a gambling debt, and thats ok ! The mind boggles

What was immigration going to do?  Unless Cambodia wants them extradited or jailed-- which would require the person(s) they owed the debt to to go to the police (are Cambodian casinos state-run?), and then for the police to be interested enough to seek arrest or extradition-- what's to keep them from returning home?  Immigration is going to stick them in a holding cell and leave them there indefinitely just in case someone comes after them someday?  Refuse to let them enter the country of their home/citizenship for who-knows-how-long when they haven't the means to rectify the situation and let them figure out how to support themselves in the meantime?

Edited December 6, 2018 by Katia

[les Dennis]

2 hours ago, Katia said:

What was immigration going to do?  Unless Cambodia wants them extradited or jailed-- which would require the person(s) they owed the debt to to go to the police (are Cambodian casinos state-run?), and then for the police to be interested enough to seek arrest or extradition-- what's to keep them from returning home?  Immigration is going to stick them in a holding cell and leave them there indefinitely just in case someone comes after them someday?  Refuse to let them enter the country of their home/citizenship for who-knows-how-long when they haven't the means to rectify the situation and let them figure out how to support themselves in the meantime?

Their job to start with. Were the Cambodian authorities told, I would doubt it. They broke the law in Cambodia and then tried to breach an immigration border control point and got away with a piss pot fine. Remind me of the point of  having to show a passport at an international border if upon returning you can tell the immigration officer that you lost it in a gambling debt in exchange for a small back hander. And the passports  could probably end up on the black market creating a further problem for a legitimate (sic) rural Thai immigration border later on. And with regards to your last comment, how are they going to rectify their crimes ? Get a new passport, return to Cambodia, pay their debts, get the old ones back, return back to Thailand and hand the old ones back to passport control, I would doubt that. They should not have been allowed back in to Thailand without correct documentation, which they knew, simple as.

[mogandave]

Their job to start with. Were the Cambodian authorities told, I would doubt it. They broke the law in Cambodia and then tried to breach an immigration border control point and got away with a piss pot fine. Remind me of the point of  having to show a passport at an international border if upon returning you can tell the immigration officer that you lost it in a gambling debt in exchange for a small back hander. And the passports  could probably end up on the black market creating a further problem for a legitimate (sic) rural Thai immigration border later on. And with regards to your last comment, how are they going to rectify their crimes ? Get a new passport, return to Cambodia, pay their debts, get the old ones back, return back to Thailand and hand the old ones back to passport control, I would doubt that. They should not have been allowed back in to Thailand without correct documentation, which they knew, simple as.

The were fined, they did not pay bribes.

So if you lose your passport, you should not be allowed back into your home country?

[Katia]

7 hours ago, les Dennis said:

Their job to start with. Were the Cambodian authorities told, I would doubt it. They broke the law in Cambodia and then tried to breach an immigration border control point and got away with a piss pot fine. Remind me of the point of  having to show a passport at an international border if upon returning you can tell the immigration officer that you lost it in a gambling debt in exchange for a small back hander. And the passports  could probably end up on the black market creating a further problem for a legitimate (sic) rural Thai immigration border later on. And with regards to your last comment, how are they going to rectify their crimes ? Get a new passport, return to Cambodia, pay their debts, get the old ones back, return back to Thailand and hand the old ones back to passport control, I would doubt that. They should not have been allowed back in to Thailand without correct documentation, which they knew, simple as.

So they shouldn't be allowed back into Thailand so they can get a passport to be allowed back into Thailand so they can work their job and make money so they can return to Cambodia to pay their debts so they can get back into Thailand?  Okay.

[Burma Bill]

21 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

And why wouldn't they think that the loan shark mafia would come looking for them in Thailand? Borrowing against a passport? These guys and gals have a serious problem.

Yes indeed. Their passports could have been a "last resort" as they may have already used their houses, cars, gold, motorcycles and land as collateral for gambling funds. An addicted Thai gambler once said to me "money is for the table, not the pocket"!

[outsider]

22 hours ago, dddave said:

The (ahem) "organization" that runs the border gambling operations has deep roots in Thailand and they are most disinclined to let deadbeats off the hook as it sets a bad example.  With their passports in hand, the collectors will have little problem finding these noobs and when they do, it won't be pleasant. They will end up paying a lot more than they lost.

 

Yes. Those who believe that getting a new passport and staying away from Cambodia will solve the problem really don't know how it works. This is just the start of more problems for the 'defaulters'. Very unpleasant ones too, I believe.

 

[outsider]

The passport is a national document, and actually belongs to the issuing country, not to whoever it is issued to. The person bearing the passport is just that - a bearer. In some countries like Malaysia, one will be made to explain in detail and jump through hoops to get a replacement after losing or damaging a passport. In most cases, a fine is also imposed. In some cases i.e 'repeat offenders', the person is denied a new passport because he/she is not fit/responsible enough to bear a passport. A single-trip exit/entry pass (whatever it is called) is issued instead. That these 12 Thais can get off so lightly and the Thai immigrations' easygoing response to this is surprising. If these were Malaysians, they will never get another passport for the rest of their lives because of their lackadaisical attitude with a national document.

 

Then again, maybe it shouldn't be surprising. According to passportindex.org, the Malaysian passport is the seventh most powerful in the world. The Thai passport is ranked 53rd, in the company of Nauru and Kazakhstan. Perhaps it's too 'worthless' to warrant any serious attention and action.

 

To those who don't see what the problem is - at best, the organisation in Cambodia know where each of these 12 people are and I believe have the network and means in Thailand to trace each one of them to recover its losses plus interest, unless the 12 change their identity, and go off the grid completely. Of bigger concern (to governments, authorities etc) is that there is potentially going to be another 12 illegal entries into Thailand, or there will be 12 more Thai nationals in the world who are actually not Thai nationals.

 

[mogandave]

50 minutes ago, outsider said:

The passport is a national document, and actually belongs to the issuing country, not to whoever it is issued to. The person bearing the passport is just that - a bearer. In some countries like Malaysia, one will be made to explain in detail and jump through hoops to get a replacement after losing or damaging a passport. In most cases, a fine is also imposed. In some cases i.e 'repeat offenders', the person is denied a new passport because he/she is not fit/responsible enough to bear a passport. A single-trip exit/entry pass (whatever it is called) is issued instead. That these 12 Thais can get off so lightly and the Thai immigrations' easygoing response to this is surprising. If these were Malaysians, they will never get another passport for the rest of their lives because of their lackadaisical attitude with a national document.

 

Then again, maybe it shouldn't be surprising. According to passportindex.org, the Malaysian passport is the seventh most powerful in the world. The Thai passport is ranked 53rd, in the company of Nauru and Kazakhstan. Perhaps it's too 'worthless' to warrant any serious attention and action.

 

To those who don't see what the problem is - at best, the organisation in Cambodia know where each of these 12 people are and I believe have the network and means in Thailand to trace each one of them to recover its losses plus interest, unless the 12 change their identity, and go off the grid completely. Of bigger concern (to governments, authorities etc) is that there is potentially going to be another 12 illegal entries into Thailand, or there will be 12 more Thai nationals in the world who are actually not Thai nationals.

 

 

How do you know what the punishment is if they do not have new passports yet?

 

They've (apparently) only been let back into the country.

[tingtong]

15 hours ago, fullcave said:

Pulling a runner on a gambling debt, how typical is that for a Thai?

must be some minibus drivers.

they have got the experience how to make a run for it ????

[outsider]

50 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

How do you know what the punishment is if they do not have new passports yet?

 

They've (apparently) only been let back into the country.

Good point and, to be honest, I was merely speculating based on the information (or its lack thereof) from the article. Sounds like they were being let off just like that - my bad. For all I know, they'll be banned from leaving their own houses, never mind being given another national document and travel to another country.

 

I do know, for a fact, that if you were a Malaysian and you lost your passport, you do not get to re-enter your own country with just a slap on the wrist, never mind what punishment comes afterwards. I know because a friend went through the ordeal - and he merely - and accidentally - dropped his passport onto a wet floor which, unfortunately for him, was wet enough to smudge the stamps inside, rendering them unreadable. He was detained at his home airport, until he could arrange for someone to bring proof of his citizenship - birth certs and the like. And then... at the immigration office, he was made to wait for a week while the department deliberated on whether he should be given a new doc. Meanwhile, he was asked to submit a letter of appeal. Finally, he got a new one, after a fine, and a very stern lecture about taking care of national docs.

 

And apparently for Malaysians, singing the national anthem doesn't pass muster when it comes to proving citizenship... lol

[Artisi]

How can a citizen of Thailand enter illegally?

[gk10002000]

Interesting.  I wonder what the  USA penalty is if one somehow gets back into the USA without going through immigration or a TSA checkpoint or whatever.  I suspect many Americans wander back from Mexico or Canada.

[gk10002000]

5 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Interesting.  I wonder what the  USA penalty is if one somehow gets back into the USA without going through immigration or a TSA checkpoint or whatever.  I suspect many Americans wander back from Mexico or Canada.

as of 2016 I found this article.

 

Fines for US Travelers Without Passports

Right now, there is no fine for US citizens who don’t show a passport when they cross the border. However, in April, a new rule was proposed that would levy a fine on any US citizen who attempts to re-enter the United States without a passport or other WHTI-compliant document. This rule is still in the review stage, but it’s generally assumed that it will be put into effect. The fee is intended to cover the costs of the extra inspection required to admit a US citizen without a passport.

It’s not yet known just how much the fine will cost, but it’s possible it will cost as much or more than getting a passport!

[gk10002000]

https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/crime-enter-illegally.html

 

looks the USA is stepping up fining Americans that attempt to enter the USA without going through the proper channels.

[mogandave]

1 minute ago, gk10002000 said:

as of 2016 I found this article.

 

Fines for US Travelers Without Passports

Right now, there is no fine for US citizens who don’t show a passport when they cross the border. However, in April, a new rule was proposed that would levy a fine on any US citizen who attempts to re-enter the United States without a passport or other WHTI-compliant document. This rule is still in the review stage, but it’s generally assumed that it will be put into effect. The fee is intended to cover the costs of the extra inspection required to admit a US citizen without a passport.

It’s not yet known just how much the fine will cost, but it’s possible it will cost as much or more than getting a passport!

 

So the fine is higher in Thailand...

[mogandave]

1 minute ago, gk10002000 said:

https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/crime-enter-illegally.html

 

looks the USA is stepping up fining Americans that attempt to enter the USA without going through the proper channels.

 

This appears to be in regard to non-citizens attempting to enter illegally...

[Maitdjai]

On 12/7/2018 at 11:19 AM, mogandave said:

 

How do you know what the punishment is if they do not have new passports yet?

 

They've (apparently) only been let back into the country.

 

Edited December 10, 2018 by Maitdjai
I have choosen the wrong quote...

[Maitdjai]

On 12/7/2018 at 10:27 AM, outsider said:

The passport is a national document, and actually belongs to the issuing country, not to whoever it is issued to. The person bearing the passport is just that - a bearer. In some countries like Malaysia, one will be made to explain in detail and jump through hoops to get a replacement after losing or damaging a passport. In most cases, a fine is also imposed. In some cases i.e 'repeat offenders', the person is denied a new passport because he/she is not fit/responsible enough to bear a passport. A single-trip exit/entry pass (whatever it is called) is issued instead. That these 12 Thais can get off so lightly and the Thai immigrations' easygoing response to this is surprising. If these were Malaysians, they will never get another passport for the rest of their lives because of their lackadaisical attitude with a national document.

 

Then again, maybe it shouldn't be surprising. According to passportindex.org, the Malaysian passport is the seventh most powerful in the world. The Thai passport is ranked 53rd, in the company of Nauru and Kazakhstan. Perhaps it's too 'worthless' to warrant any serious attention and action.

 

To those who don't see what the problem is - at best, the organisation in Cambodia know where each of these 12 people are and I believe have the network and means in Thailand to trace each one of them to recover its losses plus interest, unless the 12 change their identity, and go off the grid completely. Of bigger concern (to governments, authorities etc) is that there is potentially going to be another 12 illegal entries into Thailand, or there will be 12 more Thai nationals in the world who are actually not Thai nationals.

 

"Malaysia" and "Godfather Fairy Tales", private problems and depth are NOT the issues of Thai immigration! As long they're a Thai citizen, they have the RIGHT to enter after the ID is verified. That's what happened, fees/fines are paid and that's it so far.

[poohy]

So Thailand is protecting THIEVES !

Wonderful and not entirely surprising, Why were  they let off with paltry fine and not sent back to collect passports which i believe should not be used as collateral for gambling debts.

[mogandave]

35 minutes ago, poohy said:

So Thailand is protecting THIEVES !

Wonderful and not entirely surprising, Why were  they let off with paltry fine and not sent back to collect passports which i believe should not be used as collateral for gambling debts.

Why should the government be involved in collecting private debt incurred in a foreign country?

 

If I skip on paying my hotel bill in Thailand, should I be refused entry back into the US?

[poohy]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

Why should the government be involved in collecting private debt incurred in a foreign country?

 

If I skip on paying my hotel bill in Thailand, should I be refused entry back into the US?

By using a countries document as Guarantee ?

 

Anyway on lighter more positive note, i have heard the debt collectors employed by these casino  guys will give the losers and their families many sleepless nights, interest is already accruing and its not going to be pleasant for them personally or anyone who is vaguely connected with them until whats owed plus "fees" is repaid.

If god forbid no cash.... ouch will it get painful!

[Just Weird]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 10:55 AM, ThreeEyedRaven said:

I note with amusement in the story, there is no mention of them being forced to pay their debts to the neighbouring country.

Let them off with a pittance of a fine, and let them get away with it. That to me is a poorer performance, making Thailand look bad, than these obviously piss poor gamblers crossing illegally.

They don't owe anything to "the neighbouring country".  Why should Thai police force them to pay debts to a Cambodian casino?

[mogandave]

By using a countries document as Guarantee ?
 
Anyway on lighter more positive note, i have heard the debt collectors employed by these casino  guys will give the losers and their families many sleepless nights, interest is already accruing and its not going to be pleasant for them personally or anyone who is vaguely connected with them until whats owed plus "fees" is repaid.
If god forbid no cash.... ouch will it get painful!

Yeah, I think if I left my passport at a hotel and skipped on the bill I think I should be able to get back into my home country.

You don’t?

[wabothai]

7 hours ago, Just Weird said:

They don't owe anything to "the neighbouring country".  Why should Thai police force them to pay debts to a Cambodian casino?

Perhaps the casinos are 'owned' by thai loan sharks.

[bangrak]

On 12/6/2018 at 5:39 AM, tingtong said:

"After interrogation, Pol Lt Colonel Paisin Kaewsikhao used his authorised discretion to impose a fine ranging from Bt100 to Bt500 on each of them on the charge of entering Thailand without due process, which is punishable with a maximum fine of Bt1,800."

 

this must be one unchanged for 50 years.

it would be time to adjust to inflation, a visa or re-entry stamp cost more than this!!

AND there isnt even mention of jail time.

 

these guys lost on gambling, but laugh in the end, back to Thailand for 100-500thb, debt unpaid.

low risk "investment". 

next trip Laos?

As soon as they have a new passport to replace the 'lost' one, ...and of cause fresh (black?) cash to gamble. It would of course be racist and xhenophobic to ask about these losers' (literally) families' origins. I have some idea though...

Edited December 10, 2018 by bangrak

[Just Weird]

15 hours ago, wabothai said:

Perhaps the casinos are 'owned' by thai loan sharks.

Perhaps they are, perhaps they're not but what's your point in the context of my comment?