Wymondham In Thai

[Richard W]

How do you transliterate Norfolk placenames like Wymondham, Mundesley and Happisburgh into Thai? Purely phonetic transcriptions would be วินดำ, มันซ์ลี and เฮซเบร็อ (two syllables), but I've a strong feeling these don't accord with Thai practice. The letter 's' is pronounced /z/ in both the last two words, and they're all stressed on the first syllable. For a real challenge, we could add Hunstanton, pronounced ฮันสตัน, though I think Thais would insist on ฮันสตอน even if it were spelt 'Hunston'.

The question arose because I was pontificating on the usage of thanthakhat, and then realised I didn't know how it would be used in these words.

[tgeezer]

How do you transliterate Norfolk placenames like Wymondham, Mundesley and Happisburgh into Thai? Purely phonetic transcriptions would be วินดำ, มันซ์ลี and เฮซเบร็อ (two syllables), but I've a strong feeling these don't accord with Thai practice. The letter 's' is pronounced /z/ in both the last two words, and they're all stressed on the first syllable. For a real challenge, we could add Hunstanton, pronounced ฮันสตัน, though I think Thais would insist on ฮันสตอน even if it were spelt 'Hunston'.

The question arose because I was pontificating on the usage of thanthakhat, and then realised I didn't know how it would be used in these words.

I think this comes under the heading of ambitious! You certainly know how to "roll a boulder over the converstaion" It will be interesting to see who takes you on. On the subject of "thanthakhat" and pontificating; I was with some Old Thais the other day and when I mentioned that the test of reading they gave me had "thanthakhat" over the 't' in tent written in Thai, they said that it was garand. I rushed for the dictionary when I got home and looked up garand, my copy said it referred to the letter under the thanthakhat. When spelling I suppose they say "Dtor garand" not "dtor thanthakhat" so the transference is easy to see and understand why after sixty years they have forgotten completely the thanthakhat. Common useage is reflected in some dictionaries which say what my freinds say, that garand is thanthakhat. Now that is what I call "pontificating!!"

[tgeezer]

How do you transliterate Norfolk placenames like Wymondham, Mundesley and Happisburgh into Thai? Purely phonetic transcriptions would be วินดำ, มันซ์ลี and เฮซเบร็อ (two syllables), but I've a strong feeling these don't accord with Thai practice. The letter 's' is pronounced /z/ in both the last two words, and they're all stressed on the first syllable. For a real challenge, we could add Hunstanton, pronounced ฮันสตัน, though I think Thais would insist on ฮันสตอน even if it were spelt 'Hunston'.

The question arose because I was pontificating on the usage of thanthakhat, and then realised I didn't know how it would be used in these words.

I think this comes under the heading of ambitious! You certainly know how to "roll a boulder over the converstaion" It will be interesting to see who takes you on. On the subject of "thanthakhat" and pontificating; I was with some Old Thais the other day and when I mentioned that the test of reading they gave me had "thanthakhat" over the 't' in tent written in Thai, they said that it was garand. I rushed for the dictionary when I got home and looked up garand, my copy said it referred to the letter under the thanthakhat. When spelling I suppose they say "Dtor garand" not "dtor thanthakhat" so the transference is easy to see and understand why after sixty years they have forgotten completely the thanthakhat. Common useage is reflected in some dictionaries which say what my freinds say, that garand is thanthakhat. Now that is what I call "pontificating!!"

So I was right then Richard, noone is going to take this up. Are you thinking taking Thais on tours of the Broads?

[Richard W]

So I was right then Richard, noone is going to take this up. Are you thinking taking Thais on tours of the Broads?

No, though I have taken one to Mundesley. However, there must be Thai documents (e.g. affirmations of freedom to marriage) with some of these place names in them. For me, Stiffkey would be more relevant, but I think that's clearly going to be something like สตูฟ์กีย์.

[gummy]

Most people in the UK can not pronounce them correctly either but that also includes Acle that most often is pronounced "Akle" and what about Bozeat in Northamptonshire ? When hearing the pronounciation they are then spelt incorrectly even in the UK. In actual fact my Thai wife got nearer to pronouncing names correctly than most Scots I know, but not sure why you would need to translate to Thai anyway unless that is you are writing a guide book to Norfolk in Thai. And by the way Stiffkey is in Lincolnshire.

Edited February 24, 2007 by gummy

[Richard W]

Most people in the UK can not pronounce them correctly either but that also includes Acle that most often is pronounced "Akle" and what about Bozeat in Northamptonshire ?

What about Belvoir (บีล์เวอร์)? Actually, Bozeat does present problems. I'd suggest โบเซียต, but the Royal Institute rules at Transcribing English to Thai are not clear on the matter, and I can't rule out โบจัต.

When hearing the pronounciation they are then spelt incorrectly even in the UK. In actual fact my Thai wife got nearer to pronouncing names correctly than most Scots I know, but not sure why you would need to translate to Thai anyway unless that is you are writing a guide book to Norfolk in Thai.

The rules for converting roman-script text to Thai says the spelling is to be based on the pronunciation , but it's quite clear that silent consonants are generally needed. The conversion is needed when English documents need to be translated to Thai, e.g. addresses (for affirmation of freedom to marry) and place names on birth certificates so overseas luk krueng can get Thai passports. How do people surnamed Featherstonehaugh (pron. Fanshaw) get married in Thailand? Even Menzies may present problems. By contrast, Beauchamp and Cockburn just need appropriate use of karan.

Actually, even better examples would be the silent 'ce' in Leicester, Gloucester and Worcester. How is that handled in 'transliteration' into Thai?

And by the way Stiffkey is in Lincolnshire.

My forebears' one in Norfolk is the one you'll find when looking it up by name, e.g. Stiffkey - Norfolk Holiday and Tourist Information.

[endure]

I can hardly speak English properly let alone Thai but here are a few more names for you to get your teeth into:

Leicester, Bicester, Loughborough, Cholmondeley

[Richard W]

I can hardly speak English properly let alone Thai but here are a few more names for you to get your teeth into:

Leicester, Bicester, Loughborough, Cholmondeley

Well, Loughborough is actually quite easy. 'Gh' pronounced 'f' is transliterated the same. For reasons that escape me, silent 'gh' is not represented in Thai, so Loughborough is simply ลัฟบะระ. Edinburgh is less clear - we have 1980 raw Google hits for เอดินบะระ versus 1610 for เอดินเบิร์ก, but one can see that simply as Sassenach v. Scots.

Words like Leicester do present problems. I found the following transliterations of Worcester in the Thai wiki, with the following total numbers of raw Google hits:

วอร์เคสเตอร์ 1 hit.

วอร์สเตอร์ 0 hits !!

วูสเตอร์ 201 hits.

One class of problem I had overlooked was words like Greenwich and Norwich, with 'w' assimilated to the previous consonant and 'ch' pronounced as though 'dge'.

Edited February 25, 2007 by Richard W