ICT Minister Rants Against Foreigners

[manjara]

Who is in charge of creating these inflamatory headlines? This is the reason I dumped The Nation. He wasn't disparaging foreigners, he was bemoaning the fact that the Thai IT sector is losing ground. Gets people all worked up for nothing. Its asinine...

The real headline was "Miniter Cool on IT" I think. The inflamatory one was done by none other than the OP I assume. Still got a number of TV'ers going though..especially the usual suspects.

I agree he wasn't disparaging foreigners, but he (or the translator) used some fairly unfortunate phrases to get his point across. The implication was not outward looking, but protectionist in tone.

Regardless of what he meant, it will be perceived as protectionist attitude in the global markets, further eroding the willingness of foreign companies to invest in thailand. And I doubt that is what he wants!

[Old Man River]

Who is in charge of creating these inflamatory headlines? This is the reason I dumped The Nation. He wasn't disparaging foreigners, he was bemoaning the fact that the Thai IT sector is losing ground. Gets people all worked up for nothing. Its asinine...

The real headline was "Miniter Cool on IT" I think. The inflamatory one was done by none other than the OP I assume. Still got a number of TV'ers going though..especially the usual suspects.

I agree he wasn't disparaging foreigners, but he (or the translator) used some fairly unfortunate phrases to get his point across. The implication was not outward looking, but protectionist in tone.

Regardless of what he meant, it will be perceived as protectionist attitude in the global markets, further eroding the willingness of foreign companies to invest in thailand. And I doubt that is what he wants!

While I agree with you on how this will look outside of Thailand, inside of Thailand we know that such protectionist comments would be much more valid if there really was something to protect.

[aznyron]

I am just wondering how the thai baht got so strong with all the imports and very little exporting or is it they pump up the baht so they can buy more foriegn goods I would not take his remarks to serouisly but like some one posted before me about freedom of ownership and many other perks Malaysia is offering foriegn business to come there might be a good lesson for those in charge of Thailand when they see other countries past them by I went to Penang some time back and I was impressed with how clean and orderly it was what stop me from moving there was the fact I did not feel safe since I am American no need to explain any further LOL Ronnie

[btate]

Thailand shouldn't worry about IT and its benefits/drawbacks until

they can do simple electrical stuff well.

Remember electricity is the basis for all this crap. Make a toaster,

hot pot, or even and extension cord guaranteed for a year. Then

come talk to me.

I'd be more than willing to help set up some processes for more complicated

tasks. Until they can control a PROCESS they will ultimately fail.

Descent design, manufacturing and servicing are all a matter of process.

No short cuts, no bending the rules, not payoffs, its called work.

Bt

[jayjayjayjay]

As for company setting up their HQ in Singapore, there are others that decide to set it up in Thailand ... closer to their manufacturing plant :-)

I saw news on Bloomberg a couple of days ago about Toshiba planning on closing all their factories in Japan and moving their entire manufacturing bases to China and Thailand by 2008.

Well, you've just proven everybody’s point! Moving manufacturing is what (rape and pillage of the lower income earning countries, what have you got to be proud off) coz the wealthier ones are too busy counting the beans from intellectual property they bring........ Sad!

[Artisi]

Just another day in LOS and the ongoing comedy - what would we do without it?

[pete_r]

There is Thairung ......

http://www.thairung.co.th/

Sometimes nothing is the best thing to say

Regards

I don't know what that's about, the opening shows an Isuzu. Maybe they make parts now but their aim is to develop a car.

I may be wrong, but I thought Thairung imports motors made in Japan (by Isuzu) and builds a body around them.

[A_Traveller]

There is Thairung ......

http://www.thairung.co.th/

Sometimes nothing is the best thing to say

Regards

I don't know what that's about, the opening shows an Isuzu. Maybe they make parts now but their aim is to develop a car.

I may be wrong, but I thought Thairung imports motors made in Japan (by Isuzu) and builds a body around them.

That was my understanding, though they have a range of businesses as well. The results were described to me as Isuzu - {minus}. There's a price list there for vehicles @ 1.2 mm THB

Regards

[A_Traveller]

My problem with giving the Minister the benefit of the doubt on this is that this is not his first such 'statement'. So far his tenure has been marked by a tendency to say things which are breathtakingly inaccurate or infamatory. Even though the 100USD PC project is full of questions, to dismiss it in a sentence as 'a toy' is at best disingenuous. Further his anti-technology position for younger students has been noted by many.

There are those who use the comment that he is a believer in carbon not silicon in the classroom. {Pencils not PC's}

Regards

[MrSnrang]

Why don't they provide incentives for those seriously dedicated to IT research?

A university education doesn't seem all that rewarding when the starting salary for the average uni grad is about 8000b/mo.

[lannarebirth]

I guess the only way Thailand would do anything right in the eyes of these pompous farangs is to keep depending on their technology forever (i.e keep being their economic slaves.) Of course, if Thailand failed, it would be even better. Why would you not be thrilled to see 50 bath per dollar exchange rate, right? Who wouldn't like having cheap beers and cheap prostitutes while laughing your asses off at their backwardness at the same time?

Hi Thaigoon,

I'm with you in spirit, but i just can't let these comments pass with out a comment of my own.

Though I'm a foreigner, Thailand is my home. It is the home of my wife and our children. Most likely we will live our entire lives here.

We want Thailande to succeed. We want it to succed spectacularly. I don't want to send our children overseas to get a decent education, but as things now stand I must. Thailand has set the wrong priorities. It does not value knowledge and seems to have no understanding of what it takes to create knowledge in it's citizens. Thailand needs to take a hard look at itself and see that it's best universities are turning out graduates who cannot develop competitive technologies, ideas.... anything. Not that they're intellectually incapable, but in Thailand thought, innovation THINKING is frowned upon. That's got to change. Till then, when stooges like this guy come out and make comments like this, with no solutions attached, people will deride them.

Needless to say, if similar quality Thai goods were available, I would buy them.

Edited February 22, 2007 by lannarebirth

[rogerinthai]

All you said about the need to improve educational system is all true and nice, but it's not the point of this thread by the OP. The OP claimed that the minister is being "anti-foreigner" which he isn't. The minister also didn't ask Thais to stop buying foreign products altogether. He just said that this exhibition would just urge Thais to be more wasteful. The whole thing is being taken out of context.

It is the not exact verbiage thats wrong its the underlying tone of his entire comment..

For example "The technology show here provides foreigners an opportunity to take money from Thai people"..

No it provides hard working innovative companies the opportunity to earn via hard work, investment (in education as well as financially) and effort, money from Thai people. this isnt 'taking' from Thai people its free and fair trade.. Thais have the opportunity to not buy these products, this isnt 'taken' from them.

Exactly, and conviniently ignored by ThaiGoon. Why not repeat it then:

The technology show here provides foreigners an opportunity to take money from Thai people

This is Xenophobia. Plain and Clear.

[wintermute]

All you said about the need to improve educational system is all true and nice, but it's not the point of this thread by the OP. The OP claimed that the minister is being "anti-foreigner" which he isn't. The minister also didn't ask Thais to stop buying foreign products altogether. He just said that this exhibition would just urge Thais to be more wasteful. The whole thing is being taken out of context.

It is the not exact verbiage thats wrong its the underlying tone of his entire comment..

For example "The technology show here provides foreigners an opportunity to take money from Thai people"..

No it provides hard working innovative companies the opportunity to earn via hard work, investment (in education as well as financially) and effort, money from Thai people. this isnt 'taking' from Thai people its free and fair trade.. Thais have the opportunity to not buy these products, this isnt 'taken' from them.

Exactly, and conviniently ignored by ThaiGoon. Why not repeat it then:

The technology show here provides foreigners an opportunity to take money from Thai people

This is Xenophobia. Plain and Clear.

Thaigoon seems to exhibit the usual thai symptoms of conveniently "forgetting" negative comments or attributes from their side as long as it supports their point of view. I believe this is also referred to as a departure from reality.

[seagull]

All you said about the need to improve educational system is all true and nice, but it's not the point of this thread by the OP. The OP claimed that the minister is being "anti-foreigner" which he isn't. The minister also didn't ask Thais to stop buying foreign products altogether. He just said that this exhibition would just urge Thais to be more wasteful. The whole thing is being taken out of context.

It is the not exact verbiage thats wrong its the underlying tone of his entire comment..

For example "The technology show here provides foreigners an opportunity to take money from Thai people"..

No it provides hard working innovative companies the opportunity to earn via hard work, investment (in education as well as financially) and effort, money from Thai people. this isnt 'taking' from Thai people its free and fair trade.. Thais have the opportunity to not buy these products, this isnt 'taken' from them.

Exactly, and conviniently ignored by ThaiGoon. Why not repeat it then:

The technology show here provides foreigners an opportunity to take money from Thai people

This is Xenophobia. Plain and Clear.

It truly amazes me how all this politicians continue to shoot themselves in their foot. This is not an off the cuff remarks. It is a prepared text speech to be delivered to foreign IT. He had said what the thinks. But I bet you. There is gonna be some back tracking and wild excuses as to why he had made those comments.

[Plus]

Well, if he meant to say that Thais look extremely stupid showing off Nokia phones at IT exhibitions and beaming with pride as if they made them themselves, I can understand that.

If he came across as if he called Nokias a foreign evil, I can see that, too.

Talking about educated workforce is fine, but what to do about grown up IT professionals who honestly think that importing yet another piece of technology is their best possible achievement in life.

IT world is so big that there's a place for EVERYONE to make a big name for himself. Thais don't need to do another Seagate, they can succeed in whatever they are already doing if they do it well.

In many areas they are limited by poor infrastructure - don't expect them to capitalise on 3G gaming, for example, or Internet TV production, but if they can do something with nanotechnology - they world is their oyster.

This is the kind of IT that should be promoted, encouraged, and rewarded, not the latest gadgetry from someone like Huawei. Leave Huawei to do its own marketing.

[wintermute]

.

IT world is so big that there's a place for EVERYONE to make a big name for himself. Thais don't need to do another Seagate, they can succeed in whatever they are already doing if they do it well.

The rest of the world is more competitive these days and every country is scrambling for a piece of the global pie. The NE Asian countries and Singapore are so far ahead in terms of this it's not even funny. I really don't see how Thailand could catch up in the next 50 years seeing as how broken their educational system is. In Thailand it's customary to be an underachiever or fall into line with your peers the problem is in the global world noone cares what Thailand thinks what's fair or isn't fair to them. The competition will consume them alive sooner or later and all the protectionist policies they can think of won't stop the inevitable.

In many areas they are limited by poor infrastructure - don't expect them to capitalise on 3G gaming, for example, or Internet TV production, but if they can do something with nanotechnology - they world is their oyster.

Sure it's easy to remark that you'll be the hub of everything and the leader in nanotechnology the problem is having the education, infrastructure, and work ethic to support research in developing it. I don't see that happening here anytime soon. India, China, S. Korea, Japan are more likely to be the first to implement it.

[Scott]

It's not just that they guy said it; it's his choice of venues which leads one to wonder where his head is at.

[ThaiGoon]

Well, you've just proven everybody’s point! Moving manufacturing is what (rape and pillage of the lower income earning countries, what have you got to be proud off) coz the wealthier ones are too busy counting the beans from intellectual property they bring........ Sad!

I wasn't proud, but more of happy to know that there will be more jobs created for Thais in the next few years. Thailand is still not in a position to compete in high end industry sectors yet. Bu it's a decent start. You have to be able to walk before you can run. If you are so sad about the situation, then go do something about it.

[ThaiGoon]

Hi Thaigoon,

I'm with you in spirit, but i just can't let these comments pass with out a comment of my own.

Though I'm a foreigner, Thailand is my home. It is the home of my wife and our children. Most likely we will live our entire lives here.

We want Thailande to succeed. We want it to succed spectacularly. I don't want to send our children overseas to get a decent education, but as things now stand I must. Thailand has set the wrong priorities. It does not value knowledge and seems to have no understanding of what it takes to create knowledge in it's citizens. Thailand needs to take a hard look at itself and see that it's best universities are turning out graduates who cannot develop competitive technologies, ideas.... anything. Not that they're intellectually incapable, but in Thailand thought, innovation THINKING is frowned upon. That's got to change. Till then, when stooges like this guy come out and make comments like this, with no solutions attached, people will deride them.

Needless to say, if similar quality Thai goods were available, I would buy them.

Actually my comment was aimed a certain group of people, not the entire expat population in Thailand. But I understand the irks. I'm sorry.

As for the state of Thai educational system, if you looked at Thai papers, you probably would have seen that there have been numberous talks about revamping it for quite a few years now. It's just a matter of time before the needed changes happen. I just hope that they will happen sooner rather than later. And it will be a long process.

[The Skipper]

First, give the Thais some credit. They have mastered noodle soup and massage parlors, next, teach them how not to block the Skytrain doors, then on to developing nano technology... going to take some time....

[ThaiGoon]

First, give the Thais some credit. They have mastered noodle soup and massage parlors, next, teach them how not to block the Skytrain doors, then on to developing nano technology... going to take some time....

Well, if the US, the country where millions of people still believe that earth was created a few thousands years ago, dinosaurs and humans coexisted, God created Katrina to punish gay people, Suddam behind 9/11...etc, has still yet managed to be the sole superpower, then I think Thailand has a chance.

Edited February 23, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[Prakanong]

"As for the state of Thai educational system, if you looked at Thai papers, you probably would have seen that there have been numberous talks about revamping it for quite a few years now. It's just a matter of time before the needed changes happen. I just hope that they will happen sooner rather than later. And it will be a long process."

They may have talked about this for years and thats all that will happen.

Why talk about it - why no action?

You are saying they have the "Vision" but are unable to "Execute" - lots of poor people like that.

[JimmyTheMook]

First, give the Thais some credit. They have mastered noodle soup and massage parlors, next, teach them how not to block the Skytrain doors, then on to developing nano technology... going to take some time....

Well, if the US, the country where millions of people still believe that earth was created a few thousands years ago, dinosaurs and humans coexisted, God created Katrina to punish gay people, Suddam behind 9/11...etc, has still yet managed to be the sole superpower, then I think Thailand has a chance.

Interesting comments , especially coming from someone who in order to obtain an education had to travel overseas to get it.

[ThaiGoon]

First, give the Thais some credit. They have mastered noodle soup and massage parlors, next, teach them how not to block the Skytrain doors, then on to developing nano technology... going to take some time....

Well, if the US, the country where millions of people still believe that earth was created a few thousands years ago, dinosaurs and humans coexisted, God created Katrina to punish gay people, Suddam behind 9/11...etc, has still yet managed to be the sole superpower, then I think Thailand has a chance.

Interesting comments , especially coming from someone who in order to obtain an education had to travel overseas to get it.

Guess I didn't make myself perfectly clear enough. What I meant was every country has its fair share of silly people. To use them as a standard to judge a country's future is laughable.

[kriswillems]

I develop electronic devices in Europe (hardware and software). I spent years looking for similar activities in Thailand and to be honest, I found very few companies that do this kind of development. There are quiet a few companies developing software in Thailand, but real hardware or system developers are very hard to find.

I believe it might not be bad if government would startup some high-tech companies that are working together with the universities. I would also encourage government to hire foreign experts for teaching Thai people how to develop things.

I think the minister is right, today Thailand is nothing more than a country with cheap labour. The moment labour becomes too expensive, all foreign companies will move to another country and Thailand will know nothing about the technoly produced by these companies. Thailand should focus more on development.

Edited February 23, 2007 by kriswillems

[Prakanong]

I develop electronic devices in Europe (hardware and software). I spent years looking for similar activities in Thailand and to be honest, I found very few companies that do this kind of development. There are quiet a few companies developing software in Thailand, but real hardware or system developers are very hard to find.

I believe it might not be bad if government would startup some high-tech companies that are working together with the universities. I would also encourage government to hire foreign experts for teaching Thai people how to develop things.

I think the minister is right, today Thailand is nothing more than a country with cheap labour. The moment labour becomes too expensive, all foreign companies will move to another country and Thailand will know nothing about the technoly produced by these companies. Thailand should focus more on development.

Exactly what I have been saying - they need to encourage companies by having the public private links with Academia while offereng incentives for foreign expertiseto come and provide skills and knowledge transfer just like its neighbours Singapore and Malaysia do

[wintermute]

I develop electronic devices in Europe (hardware and software). I spent years looking for similar activities in Thailand and to be honest, I found very few companies that do this kind of development. There are quiet a few companies developing software in Thailand, but real hardware or system developers are very hard to find.

I believe it might not be bad if government would startup some high-tech companies that are working together with the universities. I would also encourage government to hire foreign experts for teaching Thai people how to develop things.

I think the minister is right, today Thailand is nothing more than a country with cheap labour. The moment labour becomes too expensive, all foreign companies will move to another country and Thailand will know nothing about the technoly produced by these companies. Thailand should focus more on development.

Exactly what I have been saying - they need to encourage companies by having the public private links with Academia while offereng incentives for foreign expertiseto come and provide skills and knowledge transfer just like its neighbours Singapore and Malaysia do

Singapore's historical success is very interesting. If you look at where Singapore was at in 1965 they were much worse off than Thailand ever was. They had massive unemployment, racial tension, and infrastructural problems. Lee Kuan Yew reformed everything by offering up free public housing and extending a consistent rule of law. He then brought the infrastructure up to speed through modernization and sending Singaporeans overseas to become educated. If you think about it Singapore went from one of the most screwed up countries in the SE Asian region to an economic power and the 22nd richest country in the world in less than 30 years time. That is quite remarkable and a lot of it had to do with the cultural and educational reform brought on by a strong leader.

[autonomous_unit]

I liked ThaiGoon's point about silly people everywhere, but he misses the true nature of the western technological apparatus. There are layers of bureaucracy and delegation which channel real assets away from the know-nothing politicians and into the hands of specialists, researchers, and technologically-aware administrators. Non-trivial resources are put in the hands of people who can apply them to research in many areas, some of which fail, some of which are mediocre successes, and a few of which succeed brilliantly. I will not argue about the efficiency of the process, but the fact is that real money does reach the folks who can apply it to develop the state-of-the-art sciences and technology. It seems like one problem Thailand has here is that the loss rates for money siphoned off into know-nothing pockets is still approaching 100%.

From what I have learned of the highly skilled, western-educated Ph.D. students who return to Thailand, they are often shoved into crippling roles in academia or quasi-governmental organizations where they are underpaid, under-appreciated, and not allowed to do real research. They end up having to take second jobs as consultants and such to get any real intellectual stimulation, if their primary job allows it. The end result is that their experience with how first-rate research organizations work in the west is being ignored and left to atrophy.

ThaiGoon, and others in similar situations: please make the most of your freedoms as graduate students and researchers in the west. Get some "curriculum practical training" if you can, before your visa status ends. You may be in for a shock when you return to Thailand. The more clearly you can see the chasm when you return, the more likely you can make some objective decisions about how you might impact things here for the better. Unfortunately, many may choose to just activate the ejection seat and return to the west, or perhaps just give up and disappear into the system here. I think the best hope for Thailand is that a small percentage are able to remain engaged and find the patience to apply the best parts of what they learned.

A final comment, in case I am not making myself clear: I am not in any way advocating that Thailand should try to emulate the west in every regard. But, my exposure to students like ThaiGoon (but 5-10 years further along in the process) has made me realize that the system here does not work well at all. As any engineer or scientists could tell you, looking at systems which do seem to work is a good starting point in deciding how to repair one that does not...

[Plus]

Singapore's historical success is very interesting. If you look at where Singapore was at in 1965 they were much worse off than Thailand ever was. They had massive unemployment, racial tension, and infrastructural problems. Lee Kuan Yew reformed everything by offering up free public housing and extending a consistent rule of law. He then brought the infrastructure up to speed through modernization and sending Singaporeans overseas to become educated. If you think about it Singapore went from one of the most screwed up countries in the SE Asian region to an economic power and the 22nd richest country in the world in less than 30 years time. That is quite remarkable and a lot of it had to do with the cultural and educational reform brought on by a strong leader.

Maybe the junta should tighten the screws instead - no nonsense about "we'll reject your constitution", no nonsense with democratically selecting National Broadcasting Commission for ten years and counting (now they are talking about merging it with NTC which in itself might be dissolved), no nonsense with coalition governments that last less than a year, no nonsense with business tycoons subverting government policies, no nonsense with listening to the people (majority of whom don't know shit about governance, and those who know only want a piece for themselves). This kind of democracy is too ineffective for the modern world. I personally think that these are necessary steps, but if one wants to see quick results, then maybe they should deal with politics Chinese style - sentence and shoot the deviants in one day. Case closed, let's move on with real policies and country development.

The problem is that Thailand doesn't have enough honest people a la Lee Kuan Yew to enforce this beneficial dictatorship. So Thais will be left endlessly fighting with each other over who gets to steal more.

I wish the generals(as beneficial dictators) and Abhisit(as a promising democrat) all good luck they can get, but I think they don't stand a chance against the majority of their countrymen.

[JimmyTheMook]

From what I have learned of the highly skilled, western-educated Ph.D. students who return to Thailand, they are often shoved into crippling roles in academia or quasi-governmental organizations where they are underpaid, under-appreciated, and not allowed to do real research. They end up having to take second jobs as consultants and such to get any real intellectual stimulation, if their primary job allows it. The end result is that their experience with how first-rate research organizations work in the west is being ignored and left to atrophy.

Taksin *earned* a Ph. D from overseas.

He did quite well for "himself".