Permits For Starting Cafe In Thailand?

[sarpesius]

This topic straddles both business and work permit/visa laws.

I am a 36 year old american.

I want to start one-person sole-proprietor cafe in thailand.

I understand a foreigner can own a condo but not land in thailand,

but I do not want a condo, but a ground floor store front for cafe.

this is not a bar. there is no alcohol or sex involved.

I wish to work at the cafe myself without having a thai partner.

My understanding is that a work permit can be had with proof of 2 million baht investment.

Unless I own the business it is unlikely I will get a work permit. But I would appreciate opinions from forum members on how to finesse this matter.

An existing cafe can be bought in thailand for 2 million baht.

I am wondering whether it makes more sense to buy an existing cafe outright or to rent, and what the options are for doing this.

sarpesius

[Sunbelt Asia]

My understanding is that a work permit can be had with proof of 2 million baht investment.

This is not correct with a sole proprietorship. In order to get the work permit, it is not 2 million paid up capital, it's 4 Thais employed or tax paid last year in Thailand of 50,000 Baht. If married to a Thai, then it can be 2 Thai employees or tax paid last year of 25,000 Baht.

Unless I own the business it is unlikely I will get a work permit. But I would appreciate opinions from forum members on how to finesse this matter.

If you can find an employer, you can get a work permit as well. The problem is finding a employer. That’s why a number of people buy themselves a job by investing in a business.

An existing cafe can be bought in thailand for 2 million baht.

Or even lower. We have had a number of business transfers of cafes around 500,000 Baht the last several months.

I am wondering whether it makes more sense to buy an existing cafe outright or to rent, and what the options are for doing this.

In most all cases, what you are doing is buying the business not the real estate; you still need to lease the space.

If you have considered owning your own business, buying an existing business has many advantages over building a business from scratch:

You can review actual operating results, rather than projected results.

You get immediate cash flow from the ongoing business activities.

You will have trained employees in place.

You will have established suppliers.

You will have established customers and referral business.

The seller will train you in operating the business.

In some cases, the seller will provide the financing you need to buy the business.

As always, due diligence is important when investing. Carefully consider the decision to buy a business.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[smartecosse]

You can review actual operating results, rather than projected results.

well, what they have reported anyway

You get immediate cash flow from the ongoing business activities.

which may be more outwards than inwards

You will have trained employees in place.

lol

You will have established suppliers.

that are happy to continue providing sub standard service

You will have established customers and referral business.

those two repeaters each week really make the difference to the bottom line

The seller will train you in operating the business.

after all if they have made such a go of it that they are selling it they must have many "pearls" of wisdon to impart

In some cases, the seller will provide the financing you need to buy the business.

cos no bank in their right mind would lend you the money based on the real figures

As always, due diligence is important when investing. Carefully consider the decision to buy a business.

work out how much you can afford to pour down the drain, double it and then thats your business plan - simple

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

I admit that there must be many many people in Thailand that make good money from the restaurant / cafe / bar business. However, I am also sure that for every one of these there are countless dreamers who pour good maney after bad trying to make a go out of a business that is doomed to failure from the start.

In the area where I live there are cafe / restaurants opening and closing regularly. They seem to last 4 to 6 months before they have drained their resources and then have to sell, I am sure that the estate agents / business brokers love it though as there seems to be a never ending supply of muppets who think that its easy to make a killing with this type of business.

Its hard enough in the west when you are not faced with language barriers, inane laws etc so why do these people all assume that it is so easy over here? The thing that really makes me laugh is the number of Faranag owned business' that are for sale as the "owners wished to return to homeland to be with family / deal with illness etc"

Why not just put down "owner's credit cards are full and must go back to the west to pay them off"

[Sunbelt Asia]

Owning a business is not easy and it certainly is not for everyone. I’m an owner/ shareholder of twenty different restaurants in Thailand. I certainly have found the restaurant business to be very profitable. ( stressful as well, like any business) However that’s me, others have been successful and others have not been successful in the restaurant industry.

You can have the biggest debate on does it make more sense to start up a restaurant or buy an existing one. You can also have lots of different opinions you should own a business in Thailand or not.

Each person has to decide that for themselves and why I put

As always, due diligence is important when investing. Carefully consider the decision to buy a business.

Why not just put down "owner's credit cards are full and must go back to the west to pay them off"

That’s why due diligence will show if this is the case or not. A number of good businesses are for sale for human reasons such as retirement, illness, partnership disputes, relocation, and divorce. Checking the business out carefully with your team will shed light on the business and if this is the true reason. Sometimes it is and other times its not. If its not, you don't invest.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[smartecosse]

you wont be short of somehwere to go for lunch then will you

[Sunbelt Asia]

you wont be short of somehwere to go for lunch then will you

If you know me. Even if I didn't own one restaurant, eating would NEVER be a problem!

Wait till Sunrise Tacos opens; I'll be having lunch and dinner there for a month.

I'm very excited we'll be offering a gourmet burrito 24 hours a day. No cans of any kind or preservative tacos will be allowed in the Kitchen. The price will be 50% lower than the cheapest taco in Bangkok and it will be freshly made in front of the customer with fresh quality ingredients.

Even after a month, still won't be tired of having a couple tacos for lunch.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[smartecosse]

how much is a gourmet burrito then on average?

and do you deliver................................. to phuket

[Sunbelt Asia]

how much is a gourmet burrito then on average?

and do you deliver................................. to phuket

Tacos will be 39 Baht

Gourmet burritos will be 99 Baht ( Average price)

Phuket

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[WAERTH]

If you know me. Even if I didn't own one restaurant, eating would NEVER be a problem!

Wait till Sunrise Tacos opens; I'll be having lunch and dinner there for a month.

I'm very excited we'll be offering a gourmet burrito 24 hours a day. No cans of any kind or preservative tacos will be allowed in the Kitchen. The price will be 50% lower than the cheapest taco in Bangkok and it will be freshly made in front of the customer with fresh quality ingredients.

Even after a month, still won't be tired of having a couple tacos for lunch.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

So where will it open than? I certainly like Taco's a lot I am not sure if Sunbelt is also the owner of the O'Brians on Sukhumvit, someone told me this once. I enjoy going there once in a while after I finish my comedy work bit the place needs a bit of maintenance. Everytime I went there lately the aircons were switched of and it was hot. And the couches are all torn open. Food still is good enough though.

Waerth

[borracho]

Everytime I went there lately the aircons were switched of and it was hot. And the couches are all torn open. Food still is good enough though.

Waerth

I've walked into restaurants like that and walked right out.

Pinching baht to save on electric is a sign that a business is bleeding.

Once I walked into an east indian restaurant here in Phuket and was greeted with the warm pungent aroma of sweat. I nearly stumbled over myself trying to get out fast enough!

Well located and well run cafes and restaurants are not abundant here.

I'm sitting in Khun Woodys cafe right now and it is nice and smartly operated.

Opportunities exist here you need to be smart and able to work smart.

Don't pay attention to the perennial pessimists like the smartass above who can't contribute anything positive.

[roamer]

Even if the owners true reason for selling is that the business failed dismally , that alone doesn't have to be a reason not to buy, it probably failed because the food was dismal. A good restaurant is one of the few businesses that can even survive the location location location rule. Restaurants/cafes that close down leaving customers mourning their passing are few and far between, most of them close/sell up for the most obvious of reasons, the food being crap numero uno.

[sarpesius]

Most of these posts are anecdotal and contain opinions about businesses in thailand.

I am interested in knowing the concrete steps an american takes to start a new business.

At this point, I think i am not interested in buying an existing business, so I hope we can avoid wasting time on irrelevent points. It would also be good not to get diverted on side issues like bad businesses we have been to.

I am concerned at this point with

1. the requirements for starting a small business in thailand in food service. This would obviate the need for a work permit, since I would not be an employee of anyone else.

2. Also, as the business owner, I would work at the business myself. I would not have workers.

3. I would be interested in comparing the advantages of renting a space (not buying or leasing an existing business) with the advantages of buying a small structure.

any help from americans who know the procedures (written and unwritten) would be helpful. It would be good to know who to pay off, how much and when.

sarpesius

[Khun ?]

Think Sunbelt said it above. Foreigners need work permit to pick up a bottle or ash tray which

is restricted to thais only, you can manage that task though. You cannot work as a waiter regardless if you own the place. Read the work laws of Thailand or hire about the best, Sunbelt, to help you do things legally.

So many cafe's already so unless you have a niche very unlikely it will cover expenses of the

electric for a one man shop, which will not get you a visa to stay in country. Also as said above for every foreign bar, restaurant or cafe ( which there is thousands) 100 go out of business for one that

does well enough to make a profit.

Very unlikely you will get anything that will not be leasing the premises of the business which many are of sublease situations. Many of the places as small cafe's are under the same as you are planning just enough to pay your living expenses and most don't.

Read the last 6 months of post and most likely you will find post such as yours a 100 times, except the

most mention a wife, girlfriend running the place.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Khun ?

[chuchok]

Most of these posts are anecdotal and contain opinions about businesses in thailand.

I am interested in knowing the concrete steps an american takes to start a new business.

At this point, I think i am not interested in buying an existing business, so I hope we can avoid wasting time on irrelevent points. It would also be good not to get diverted on side issues like bad businesses we have been to.

I am concerned at this point with

1. the requirements for starting a small business in thailand in food service. This would obviate the need for a work permit, since I would not be an employee of anyone else.

2. Also, as the business owner, I would work at the business myself. I would not have workers.

3. I would be interested in comparing the advantages of renting a space (not buying or leasing an existing business) with the advantages of buying a small structure.

any help from americans who know the procedures (written and unwritten) would be helpful. It would be good to know who to pay off, how much and when.

sarpesius

Most of what you ask has been well covered in the forum.Sunbelt has already answered your main questions.

As Khun ? has already pointed out,it doesn't matter if you are a business owner or not,you are working in the business and therefore need a work permit.End of story.Reasons as sunbelt has already given you etc...

[sarpesius]

My understanding is that a work permit can be had with proof of 2 million baht investment.

This is not correct with a sole proprietorship. In order to get the work permit, it is not 2 million paid up capital, it's 4 Thais employed or tax paid last year in Thailand of 50,000 Baht.

Just to get this rather unbelievable statement nailed down-- you are saying for a fact that even an American cannot work at a business he owns in Thailand without having

a. either 4 thais working for him

b. or having paid tax on 50,000 Baht in the previous year.

This sounds like it is impossible to work at one's own business even if one invests 2 million baht. Because if I have brought the money in from outside investors (as I plan to do in the second year after, and if, the pilot project pans out) I still would not be paying any tax on invested money, since it was not earned in thailand.

This means it is impossible to work at your own business even with all the licenses.

A US citizen would have to

1. get the business licenses

2. lease the premises

3. hire 4 thais.

4. Then after having hired them, one could legally get a work permit, then work at your own business.

This makes a one or two person cafe operation unfeasible because the wages of the workers (about 6000 baht a month each) would eat up the start up costs and keep the startup from getting off the ground.

You could never make enough profit to make the business secure.

I have just read an old post on this exact subject on this forum

http://www.thaivisa.com/314.0.html

To me this means the best policy is the get investors in America to put up about 75k USD, then hire a company to do all this. With this kind of capitalization needed, the business model might be able to sustain repayment.

I think this is the reason almost all businesses in Thailand, especially those run by thais, are working black in one way or another.

sarpesius

[smartecosse]

Everytime I went there lately the aircons were switched of and it was hot. And the couches are all torn open. Food still is good enough though.

Waerth

I've walked into restaurants like that and walked right out.

Pinching baht to save on electric is a sign that a business is bleeding.

Once I walked into an east indian restaurant here in Phuket and was greeted with the warm pungent aroma of sweat. I nearly stumbled over myself trying to get out fast enough!

Well located and well run cafes and restaurants are not abundant here.

I'm sitting in Khun Woodys cafe right now and it is nice and smartly operated.

Opportunities exist here you need to be smart and able to work smart.

Don't pay attention to the perennial pessimists like the smartass above who can't contribute anything positive.

perennial pessimists???

how about people that actually can & do run a successfull business in Thailand wondering why people that have no experience in the restaurant or bar business assuming that they can make a successful go of it in a foreign country..........

Just in the area that I live I have watched many "farangs" decide that they are gonna make a fortune by opening a restaurant, they invariably buy one that has already closed, renovate it - normally at great expense - enjoy the flurry of business as its a new place to go and eat and then close themselves 6 months or so on when they are not getting a decent income out of it.

Cue the next farang to come along, buy / lease the same business convinced that they can make the numbers work. Our family business was hotels / bars & restaurants for 20 years, I know just how hard it is to make them profitable andthen to keep them there - from experience

I am not saying that its not possible to run these successfully, i am pointing out that it is a hard business to suceed in and even more so when you are in a forign country. Personally I think the brokers must love it as they get to sell the same business over and over again.

[lukamar]

I've been involved in restaurants and resorts for 25 years and the food-service industry is definitely the hardest business to keep out of the red. Margins on your investment are normally in the 3-5% range with the very odd restaurant turning 10%. That's also taking into account that the management is on top of the food, labor and other costs fanatically.

So do your math and ask yourself if you can live with it..

[Sunbelt Asia]

So where will it open than? I certainly like Taco's a lot I am not sure if Sunbelt is also the owner of the O'Brians on Sukhumvit, someone told me this once. I enjoy going there once in a while after I finish my comedy work bit the place needs a bit of maintenance. Everytime I went there lately the aircons were switched of and it was hot. And the couches are all torn open. Food still is good enough though.

Waerth

Thanks for your comments.

Sunrise Tacos will be opening on Sukhumvit Rd between Soi 12 and Soi 14.

Good to hear the food is good at O'Brians.

The 25 year building lease is up in July and no matter if the same Landlord will get a new 25 year extension or their is a new Landlord, the Nai Lert building including Food Land will be closed for six months for complete renovation. My wife was trying to hold off till July to renovate.

However as O’Brains is open for 24 hours, it seems it will not wait. I pointed it out to my wife a couple months ago about the wear and tear on the sofas but you make a valid point and she will go ahead and buy new sofas now. It simply just can't wait till July. On average 300 people a day have a meal at O'Brians.

As for the air conditioning, the building recently turned off the central air on Saturday and Sundays and late night. O’Brains has a couple air-conditioning units but they seem to not putting out enough cold air. This issue was going to be addressed during renovations in July but will move up to top priority.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[borracho]

Restaurant biz isn't easy. Successful ones are run by hands on owners and that isn't a guaranteed.

Franchises are another often good way to go.

Sunbelt has a list of successful ones.

Here in Phuket Subway sandwiches do well.

The Bali Hai massage/spa franchise seems to have their program dialed in too.

[Neddy]

you wont be short of somehwere to go for lunch then will you

Gald to learn that Mexican food is going somewat main stream. I am a TexMex Junkie. If you are interested in sourcing fresh jalapenos, pm me and I can help.

If you know me. Even if I didn't own one restaurant, eating would NEVER be a problem!

Wait till Sunrise Tacos opens; I'll be having lunch and dinner there for a month.

I'm very excited we'll be offering a gourmet burrito 24 hours a day. No cans of any kind or preservative tacos will be allowed in the Kitchen. The price will be 50% lower than the cheapest taco in Bangkok and it will be freshly made in front of the customer with fresh quality ingredients.

Even after a month, still won't be tired of having a couple tacos for lunch.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

Just to get this rather unbelievable statement nailed down-- you are saying for a fact that even an American cannot work at a business he owns in Thailand without having

a. either 4 thais working for him

You stated you wanted to open a sole proprietorship. This is the case of one of the criteria

To get the work permit.

b. or having paid tax on 50,000 Baht in the previous year.

this is another option to meet the criteria.

The third option is having a business that had turnover last year of 700,000 Baht.

Married to a Thai, then its 2 Thai employees, 25,000 Baht tax paid last year or 350,000 Baht in turnover last year.

This sounds like it is impossible to work at one's own business even if one invests 2 million baht. Because if I have brought the money in from outside investors (as I plan to do in the second year after, and if, the pilot project pans out) I still would not be paying any tax on invested money, since it was not earned in thailand.

If you have investors, why not do a Thai limited Company? You then can have a 2 million Baht registered company. You would not need to have any Thai employees or had to pay tax last year to get the work permit.

This means it is impossible to work at your own business even with all the licenses.

A US citizen would have to

1. get the business licenses

2. lease the premises

3. hire 4 thais.

4. Then after having hired them, one could legally get a work permit, then work at your own business.

This is the case with a sole proprietorship, (if you could meet the criteria of being married to a Thai then the criteria would be 2 Thais) or tax of 50k per year or turnover in another business you owned as a sole proprietorship of 700K for the year.

This makes a one or two person cafe operation unfeasible because the wages of the workers (about 6000 baht a month each) would eat up the start up costs and keep the startup from getting off the ground.

Huh? How much are you looking to sell a month? If your business is doing 500,000 Baht a month. Your labor costs at 24,000 Baht are just 5% for the month. In the USA, labor costs are around 33%.

You could never make enough profit to make the business secure.

Not one restaurant that I'm in involved in has a payroll less than 60,000 Baht and one restaurant the payroll is 1.5 million Baht per month. The labor costs at every restaurant are less than 14% per month, with the average being 8% labor costs per month. Labor costs is the biggest advantage in Thailand, it is not a negative.

I have just read an old post on this exact subject on this forum

http://www.thaivisa.com/314.0.html

To me this means the best policy is the get investors in America to put up about 75k USD, then hire a company to do all this. With this kind of capitalization needed, the business model might be able to sustain repayment.

If you invest two million or three million Baht, it will not change your business model much. Your business model however would be much more successful hiring Thais to help you, rather doing it yourself with no employees or hiring a company to do it. You seem to be upset on the idea having to use the one option for a sole proprietorship to hire 4 Thais but this 288,000 Baht for the year is nothing as for you making a profit or losing. Certainly having almost 10,000 hours of labor in exchange for this 288,000 Baht investment will help you generate more sales. A company you would hire, would certainly charge more than 288,000 Baht and the business would never do as well with you not being there.

I think this is the reason almost all businesses in Thailand, especially those run by thais, are working black in one way or another.

Yes, an advantage exists for being a sole proprietor with the tax rate and no requirement to keep track of your expenses for taxes in Thailand. Be aware many are in the system as 800,000 registered companies, limited companies and sole proprietorship exist in Thailand.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[sarpesius]

Many of your responses are based on the assumption assured investment from America, but this investment only comes if the business model can proven to work.

I am not going to approach a potential investor to start any type of company if the business model is not proven to work. That is why the pilot project of the business has to be set up (in the most economical way) so I can prove the business model. This is how I compile the Pro Forma report: costs going forward must be compared to proven revenue.

The pilot project must 1. prove the potential for profit, 2. be fun for me to run. If the pilot project shows that it will only sustain me, then I run it as a sole proprietorship. If the pilot project shows huge profit potential, then I approach investors and direct the project toward being a multi-national chain.

But if the laws to set up a sole proprietorship are too xenophobic, then I cannot get the pilot project going. So I will not approach investors with a still-born idea.

If the Thai government will not give a sole proprietor a long term resident visa and work permit, but make him hop over the border every 2 months, then this eats away profit potential and causes him to either close the business, losing profit, or letting employees run it who might steal.

There is no way to say if the business will pull in even one baht much less 500,000. It useless to consider hiring employees and assuming their labor is of any benefit at all with an untried business model. So the requirement to hire anyone at all is out of the question. The pilot project obviously cannot be tried this way in Thailand. Another possibility is to approach my contacts in thailand who already own businesses to allow me to manage a business they set up.

"...having almost 10,000 hours of labor in exchange for this 288,000 Baht investment will help you generate more sales." No it won't. This is not a sales business model. Hiring anyone would just be a drain until the business model is proven to work on the smallest scale possible.

The business model is based on the bare minimum on costs. My concept has nothing to do with an existing franchise or business model. I would not want them even if they were financially viable.

This is why the cafe scene in thailand is so unsatisfying. Native thais do not operate on this model and foreigners are not allowed to. That is why you see on Khao San Road all the tourists wind up sitting on the curb at 2 a.m. Ultimately there is no where to sit down and relax in thailand: the foreigner can only go from his hotel room to some place to spend money and back again.

I am now shifting my research focus to other southeast asian countries, like Laos. Laos prohibits a foreigner from doing retail.

On the other hand, a consultancy might be possible, if it was based on the USA and provided fee-based services to thais.

sarpesius

[britmaveric]

2am? Heaps of places to go!! And well Khao San Rd tourists, most likely would be sitting there regardless of time.

[Pikey]

Sarpesius,

As a former restaurant owner in CNX, and still and inhabitant with money in my pocket, after reading your posts, can I ask you one simple question: Why the hel_l do you want to come to Thailand????

It's an absolutely beautiful part of the world but IMHO, you must be willing to forgo a lot of the mindset that you forged in Farangland. If you can do that, then welcome, happy, enjoy. If not, you will come here, get disillusioned and just end up posting on this board as yet another whinging scrote who would be better off back in their home country.......

One last thing, there is no Thai government as such right now, unless it escaped your attention, we are citizens of a military coup at the moment.

Cheers,

Pikey.

Edited February 23, 2007 by Pikey

[Sunbelt Asia]

Many of your responses are based on the assumption assured investment from America, but this investment only comes if the business model can proven to work.

I am not going to approach a potential investor to start any type of company if the business model is not proven to work. That is why the pilot project of the business has to be set up (in the most economical way) so I can prove the business model. This is how I compile the Pro Forma report: costs going forward must be compared to proven revenue.

The pilot project must 1. prove the potential for profit, 2. be fun for me to run. If the pilot project shows that it will only sustain me, then I run it as a sole proprietorship. If the pilot project shows huge profit potential, then I approach investors and direct the project toward being a multi-national chain.

But if the laws to set up a sole proprietorship are too xenophobic, then I cannot get the pilot project going. So I will not approach investors with a still-born idea.

If the Thai government will not give a sole proprietor a long term resident visa and work permit, but make him hop over the border every 2 months, then this eats away profit potential and causes him to either close the business, losing profit, or letting employees run it who might steal.

There is no way to say if the business will pull in even one baht much less 500,000. It useless to consider hiring employees and assuming their labor is of any benefit at all with an untried business model. So the requirement to hire anyone at all is out of the question. The pilot project obviously cannot be tried this way in Thailand. Another possibility is to approach my contacts in thailand who already own businesses to allow me to manage a business they set up.

"...having almost 10,000 hours of labor in exchange for this 288,000 Baht investment will help you generate more sales." No it won't. This is not a sales business model. Hiring anyone would just be a drain until the business model is proven to work on the smallest scale possible.

The business model is based on the bare minimum on costs. My concept has nothing to do with an existing franchise or business model. I would not want them even if they were financially viable.

This is why the cafe scene in thailand is so unsatisfying. Native thais do not operate on this model and foreigners are not allowed to. That is why you see on Khao San Road all the tourists wind up sitting on the curb at 2 a.m. Ultimately there is no where to sit down and relax in thailand: the foreigner can only go from his hotel room to some place to spend money and back again.

I am now shifting my research focus to other southeast asian countries, like Laos. Laos prohibits a foreigner from doing retail.

On the other hand, a consultancy might be possible, if it was based on the USA and provided fee-based services to thais.

sarpesius

It doesn’t matter where you open a business, even your own country. There are no proven business models unless you are acquiring an existing business or franchise. Even that is no guarantee that past performance is going to be a guarantee of future performance.

Your staff is the biggest asset of a business. That’s how I look at a business but that’s me.

It comes down to risk. I embrace risk and am not fearful of it. If something does not work, I cut my losses and move on to another location. Fortunately in Thailand, business has been good and only one location has needed to be change. Even then it was not a diaster as that bad location still made a return of 2.3 % last year. It's a Chester Grill Franchise in The Majior Multiplex on Ramhunhaeng Rd.

Business is not for everyone. You have to love it with all your heart and have the passion. To me, only my wife and kids mean more than loving business ownership.

As for Kao San Rd, we are open 24 hours. We don't close at 2 a.m. In fact, seven of our restaurants are open 24 hours.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[digitele]

This is not correct with a sole proprietorship. In order to get the work permit, it is not 2 million paid up capital, it's 4 Thais employed or tax paid last year in Thailand of 50,000 Baht. If married to a Thai, then it can be 2 Thai employees or tax paid last year of 25,000 Baht.

Can Thai wife be one partner? Correct?

The Capital can be in Buidings, property?

How can you show a previous years tax stuff on a "startup"?

[Sunbelt Asia]

This is not correct with a sole proprietorship. In order to get the work permit, it is not 2 million paid up capital, it's 4 Thais employed or tax paid last year in Thailand of 50,000 Baht. If married to a Thai, then it can be 2 Thai employees or tax paid last year of 25,000 Baht.

Can Thai wife be one partner? Correct?

The Capital can be in Buidings, property?

How can you show a previous years tax stuff on a "startup"?

It is not corporate tax, it is personal tax you paid the previous year. ( Which could of been as a employee or employer of another company)

If you are talking sole proprietorship, you only have one person( In other words, only yourself ). There is no registered capital in a sole proprietorship.

If you are talking a Limited Company or Limited Partnership. the capital can be property.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[sarpesius]

The best way for me to test the business model and bring back some hard figures to potential investors in America appears to be as follows:

1. get the licenses as a sole proprietor American citizen.

2. rent the premises.

3. hire 4 thai (at 6,000 - 12,000 a month) (Since I will not have worked in thailand the previous year paying taxes is not possible.)

4. get the work permit for myself on the basis of point 3

5. Tell my thai employees to take the day off while I work the business with my work permit.

Apparently this way I do not have to hire professional help.

sarpesius

Edited February 25, 2007 by sarpesius

[Sunbelt Asia]

The best way for me to test the business model and bring back some hard figures to potential investors in America appears to be as follows:

1. get the licenses as a sole proprietor American citizen.

2. rent the premises.

3. hire 4 thai (at 6,000 - 12,000 a month) (Since I will not have worked in thailand the previous year paying taxes is not possible.)

4. get the work permit for myself on the basis of point 3

5. Tell my thai employees to take the day off while I work the business with my work permit.

Apparently this way I do not have to hire professional help.

sarpesius

I don't remember seeing one restaurant/Cafe in any Country where they only have one employee which is the owner. When I mean restaurant I mean inside a building with 30 seats. (Not a street Hawker). If you go into any restaurant or any business in Thailand, 9 times out of 10 it’s not the owner that serves you. Easily 70% or higher chance the owner is not even there.

If you think you can own and manage a restaurant with no help. God bless you. That means you will order the supplies, check the delivery for freshness and quantity, place your advertisement, market the business, do the accounting books all the same time as cooking and taking orders from customers and then finally getting the money when they pay the bill. Even if you could manage it for an hour. How bout at peak time... how much in lost revenue as customers are waiting to place an order( some will just walk away).

How long before you burn out? No Holidays or even one day off without closing the business.

Once again Thailand is a different business model. Its rent that is the biggest expense item, not labor. Don’t be afraid of labor costs. These partners are your biggest asset. They can hand out fliers and market the business, even if the restaurant is not busy.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[RAZZELL]

5. Tell my thai employees to take the day off while I work the business with my work permit.

Apparently this way I do not have to hire professional help.

sarpesius

Who's going to look after it when you're sick, want a holiday, or you need a piss!!!

There are no absolutes...For that you need a crystal ball!!!

RAZZ