BREAKING NEWS Thai immigration reveals new requirements for retirement, marriage extensions (visas)

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

1) The 'notice' only talks about pension income,  which even a Thai bank is unlikely to be able to confirm unless the pension income is paid directly into a Thai bank, rather than being paid into a 'home' bank and then amounts transferred monthly to a Thai bank?

Do not worry about the word pension. Immigration will not be interested in proof it came from a pension as long as it is transferred from abroad.

The word pension was used in the police order before.

[wobalt]

Luckily my wife can support me as she have a German bank account

[johnarth]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The new change for Americans, Brits, Aussies and Danes relying on the monthly income method is...

 

Before, you had to claim the monthly income, but it didn't have to be imported into Thailand.

 

Now, it HAS to be imported into a Thai bank account apparently from a foreign source, and probably be done on an every month basis (pending how the forthcoming translations clarify that matter.)

 

That's a not insignificant change, particularly for those who don't need to spend 65K per month every month in Thailand, and/or prefer to keep their funds in higher earning investments in their home countries.

 

lucky you, good thing you don't have to live on the pension

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 minutes ago, Pat 42 said:

Can anyone tell me if it is ok to have the money paid into Citibank Bangkok branch as that is the bank I use here?

 

Citibank Thailand certainly qualifies as a Thai bank. But you'll need to check with them as to whether they can/will issue for you the kind of account balance verification and/or monthly foreign deposit verification letters that Thai Immigration may be looking for in the future.

 

[overherebc]

14 minutes ago, mjakob007 said:

If one does not have a pension plan meeting these requirements, but has investments that generate sufficient returns to fulfill these requirements, would that be sufficient for visa purposes?

 

 As you can imagine, dividends and returns from investment would not flow in every month on a consistent basis, but from previous experience the portfolio generates sufficient annualized returns to well cover the monthly requirements of 65k/month.

in that case, would a monthly transfer of 65k/month from my offshore account to thai bank account suffice?

If unsure of the sum at the end of the year go Combination to offset any possible short fall with a fudge factor added.

[Moonlover]

8 minutes ago, Nong Khai Man said:

Also, as far as I understand it, the British Government will not send pensions into a Thai bank account (only into a British one), and not every British bank will automatically forward a pension to a bank account in Thailand every month. Maybe I am wrong. You Are Wrong Mate, The British Government sends the pensions to Citibank ( Who make a HUGE Amount of interest in about the 15 Days They hold it in their account )Before they ( Citibank ) Transfer it to the Thai Bank,In My case ( Bangkok Bank ) who then take their cut before they put it into MY Account.....

Misinformation following on from misinformation! Citbank DO NOT hold on to pensions for 2 weeks at all. In my particular case, my pension is paid out on a Tuesday and it reaches my Thai bank on the Thursday of the same week.

 

And I know this is true because I've used both a UK account and a Thai account to receive my pension at various times.

 

And if your bank is taking a cut on the deposit, then it's time to change banks. I've never had that happen to me.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, watso63 said:

Thai Immigration are saying put your money where your mouth is. 65,000 minimum in a Thai bank every month or season the required 800,000. (Combination still allowed)

 

No pay no play????

But that's precisely where it's unclear!

 

The OP notice talks only about 'pension' income, and also says that it has to be paid monthly into a Thai bank account - which is not always possible with company/private pensions.

 

The notice doesn't say that 65,000 bht minimum is required every month, as it also says an average of 65,000 bht p.m. will be acceptable.

 

No doubt we'll have to wait a few months to find out how different branches of Immigration translate the rules.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

23 minutes ago, mlmcleod said:

I am sad to see that retirement funds need to be sent to a Thai bank to qualify!  My letter from Social Security should be enough!  It can be notarized if necessary.

 

It SHOULD be enough, but sadly, won't be in this new regime.

 

Money in a Thai bank or monthly deposits into a Thai bank, that's what they're going to be looking for....

 

... assuming that you're an American who no longer has the ability to obtain an Embassy income letter.

 

[4MyEgo]

3 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

Evidence of a pension. Letter of certification from a Thai bank supported by bank statements showing a pension being transferred to the pensioner’s bank account every month for at least 12 months.

In essence what they are saying is, if you are a pensioner and can provide evidence as such and the monthly income to support yourself, e.g. 40,000 baht per month for the married guys and 65,000 baht for the retired guys, deposited into your Thai bank account "without having to have any other funds in the bank, flat broke or not, they will accept it, and I am assuming that you would have to provide your bank a letter from your local government department back in the land you left originally stating you are a pensioner, then they can work the rest out, best have that translated and naturally a copy for immigration.

 

For those who are, or are not pensioners and have the usual funds placed into their Thai accounts, e.g. 400,000 baht for the marriage extensions or 800,000 for the retirement extension, it's business as usual. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[EL159]

Right. I ve read every page every post. Theres 2 hours of my life I ll never get back. Its as clear as day for me regarding the remittance method. "Show an average monthly income of 65,000". Fine. So given the word "average", and lets keep this simple, if you bring in and show 200,000 four times a year, that comes to a total of 800,000 divided by twelve equals about 66,000 per month.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Eligius said:

On the face of it, this looks EXTREMELY worrying for British retirees here. The irresponsible action of the British embassy in not confirming a retiree's income flow could be the death knell for many Brits here. Also, as far as I understand it, the British Government will not send pensions into a Thai bank account (only into a British one), and not every British bank will automatically forward a pension to a bank account in Thailand every month. Maybe I am wrong. 

 

Perhaps it is not as bad as I fear. What do other members think?

 

 

 

 

My state, military and company pension were sent to my KBank account for many years. However last October I opened a TransferWise account in the UK and the pensions go there now. I get an sms when they arrive and do the transfer myself though it costs a few baht more but I get a better forex rate.

[JLCrab]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Do not worry about the word pension. Immigration will not be interested in proof it came from a pension as long as it is transferred from abroad.

The word pension was used in the police order before.

However just as with the embassy income affidavit before, the IMM officer may still have the right to ask for corroborating documents to make sure that there actually is some plausible source of monthly income and not just some fix on the monthly from ex-Thailand deposit.

[wobalt]

all i see is... Thai Imm trying to do things
 
I believe their next action will be about NON-O 90 days visa run thing. As we all know they already stopped it in big borders. And i believe more is coming. So.. its really becoming more difficult and stressful getting NON-O and stay on it.
Stopped atBig borders where and when?
 
Thanks for the great info though! This is why i love this website.

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[4MyEgo]

8 minutes ago, EL159 said:

Right. I ve read every page every post. Theres 2 hours of my life I ll never get back. Its as clear as day for me regarding the remittance method. "Show an average monthly income of 65,000". Fine. So given the word "average", and lets keep this simple, if you bring in and show 200,000 four times a year, that comes to a total of 800,000 divided by twelve equals about 66,000 per month.

If your going to do it the 800,000 baht way, just make sure the last 200,000 baht gets put in 3 months before the 12 months is up when you lodge your application.

 

The income of 65,000 per month only applies to a pensioner, who is here on grounds of retirement, so if your not a pensioner, the 200,000 baht method four times a year will work as long as its all in before the 3 months prior to the application.

Edited January 6, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[mfd101]

17 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The new change for Americans, Brits, Aussies and Danes relying on the monthly income method is...

 

Before, you had to claim the monthly income, but it didn't have to be imported into Thailand.

 

Now, it HAS to be imported into a Thai bank account apparently from a foreign source, and probably be done on an every month basis (pending how the forthcoming translations clarify that matter.)

 

That's a not insignificant change, particularly for those who don't need to spend 65K per month every month in Thailand, and/or prefer to keep their funds in higher earning investments in their home countries.

 

And that differs from what I said in what way? The basic fact is that all the previous options are still there PLUS a NEW option to meet the circumstances created by the 4 Embassies' change of policy.

[Moonlover]

20 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

Actually you are wrong yourself. My own UK bank will not allow an automatic monthly transfer to a Thai bank.  Also one of my three pension providers will only pay my pension into a UK bank.  So I agree please post factually correct information.

I did not say that. He did. I simply mentioned it is possible to transfer money by using TransferWise or similar.

 

Please read posts properly and be sure of YOUR facts before posting.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Moonlover

[bangkoklasse]

My embassy is still doing income letter for me. Do I have to show that 65k baht is coming into my account? Or is it still exectly the same as last year if having the income letter?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

28 minutes ago, mjakob007 said:

If one does not have a pension plan meeting these requirements, but has investments that generate sufficient returns to fulfill these requirements, would that be sufficient for visa purposes?

 

 As you can imagine, dividends and returns from investment would not flow in every month on a consistent basis, but from previous experience the portfolio generates sufficient annualized returns to well cover the monthly requirements of 65k/month.

in that case, would a monthly transfer of 65k/month from my offshore account to thai bank account suffice?

 

Although the current translation of the new rules is using the term "pension," in all likelihood, what's going to end up mattering for monthly income applicants is that you or someone transfers at least the required 40K or 65K into your Thai bank account from some foreign source every month -- regardless of the original source of those funds.

 

[DPKANKAN]

28 minutes ago, Nong Khai Man said:

Also, as far as I understand it, the British Government will not send pensions into a Thai bank account (only into a British one), and not every British bank will automatically forward a pension to a bank account in Thailand every month. Maybe I am wrong. You Are Wrong Mate, The British Government sends the pensions to Citibank ( Who make a HUGE Amount of interest in about the 15 Days They hold it in their account )Before they ( Citibank ) Transfer it to the Thai Bank,In My case ( Bangkok Bank ) who then take their cut before they put it into MY Account.....

Incorrect! As I stated previously, having starting receiving my UK government pension late last year, I was asked did I want it weekly or 4 weekly? (there may have been a third option) and the name of my Thai Bank account as they had very good exchange rates. I said 4 weekly and please pay to my UK Halifax account. Which they do!!

[geoffbezoz]

15 minutes ago, gamini said:

The problem is that many expats didn't have the required income but claimed they did, and there was no means for the Immigration Department to check it. The embassies refused to verify it. The American embassy simply accepted the applicant's affidavit without checking his income. Some years back I produced a letter from my investment broker to the UK embassy and they issued the necessary letter. But I could have easily photoshopped a letter from any broker. So don't blame Imigration.  Blame the embassies for being too lazy to verify people's income.

Exactly correct and what was "done to death" in many other posts, and also in many other forums, is that those who were cheating the system, including corrupt visa agents supported by immigration personnel, indicatively a high number I suspect, are the ones responsible for the consequential actions being taken by the respective embassies to the detriment of those amongst us wishing to stay honestly.  Always the same the few spoiling it for the majority.  Rather than rooting out the offenders and sending them back,  much easier to do nothing about the true cause. Smoke and mirrors again. 

[EL159]

1 minute ago, 4MyEgo said:

If your going to do it the 800,000 baht way, just make sure the last 200,000 baht gets put in 3 months before the 12 months is up when you lodge your application.

 

The income of 65,000 per month only applies to pensioner, so if your not a pensioner, the 200,000 baht method four times a year will work as long as its all in before the 3 months prior to the application.

Thats NOT what I m saying. Do pay attention! I work on the remittance method and said so in my post. If I remit 200,000 baht every three months, that shows average remittances of 65,000 a month. I dont believe for a moment that theyre going to "require" us to literally bring it in every month, and that "average" will be sufficient.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

31 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

I think it would have been shown/stated...if it was?

 

No change to the 400K or 800K Thai bank DEPOSITS method (as opposed to the monthly income method).

[moto77]

They'll likely lose their wealthiest retirees with this nonsense. I don't have a pension. I have a business in the US and take draws of well over 500K THB a month. Of course I'm not going to put that in a Thai bank. LOL

I don't really care anymore because I dropped my retirement visa two years ago and decided to spend more time in other places just due to the other nonsense going on in Thailand. I suspect more will follow with silly rules like this. ???? 

Edited January 6, 2019 by moto77

[geoffbezoz]

4 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

I did not say that. He did. I simply mentioned it is possible to transfer money by using TransferWise or similar.

 

Please read posts properly and be sure of YOUR facts before posting.

I did post the facts, a shame you wish to contribute nothing but negativity.  But hey ho have a nice day and remember, you earn no brownie points for contradicting yourself on an anonymous forum.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

34 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

The most likely problems (IMO) are going to be:-

 

1) The 'notice' only talks about pension income,  which even a Thai bank is unlikely to be able to confirm unless the pension income is paid directly into a Thai bank, rather than being paid into a 'home' bank and then amounts transferred monthly to a Thai bank?

2) Will the official translation change 'pension income' into 'funds from abroad'?

 

Joe has advised in a prior post here, and I agree, that the current use of the term "pension" in the translated version of the new Immigration rules is almost certainly meant to be a generic term. Whether the translated term changes or not, in practice, Immigration almost certainly will care only that the required funds came monthly from a foreign source -- not what kind of funds were transferred in.

 

Don't obsess about the use of the term "pension" in this context.

 

[dick dasterdly]

30 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Do not worry about the word pension. Immigration will not be interested in proof it came from a pension as long as it is transferred from abroad.

The word pension was used in the police order before.

From a purely selfish viewpoint, this notice by Immigration is good news as I'm pretty sure that (as you say):-

 

1) Immigration will only be looking for income from abroad to meet their requirements.

2) My income is entirely from company/private pensions - and so the only likely problem is that they are not paid directly into a Thai Bank account, and there is no easy way to PROVE that it is pension income.  Certainly not by the Thai bank receiving monthly transfers!

3) I'm sure that all Thai banks will quickly come up with a letter to confirm that the income came from abroad.

4) I already pay an agent to deal with my extensions/90 day reports at Immigration (even though I'm entirely 'legal'), as I can't be bothered to deal with the stress of dealing with the ever changing demands of the Immigration dept......

 

Nonetheless, I'm not entirely selfish - and so am still concerned about others who have problems with the changes.

Edited January 6, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[mfd101]

3 minutes ago, EL159 said:

Thats NOT what I m saying. Do pay attention! I work on the remittance method and said so in my post. If I remit 200,000 baht every three months, that shows average remittances of 65,000 a month. I dont believe for a moment that theyre going to "require" us to literally bring it in every month, and that "average" will be sufficient.

Wouldn't count on it. When they say 'every month' I think they mean every month.

 

And whether your income is paid to you 'back home' weekly, fortnightly, monthly, quarterly etc is simply irrelevant. Up to you to make the payments every month, if that's the option you've chosen (or had thrust upon you).

[DPKANKAN]

31 minutes ago, johnarth said:

don't know what is happening to my replies to make it short I Australian our pension worst in the western world with the Thai Baht eating up our dollar won't be long before we are forced to leave Thailand

Your Aussie government pension is 30% better than our UK one based on what my Aussie mates tell me!! Yours 40k plus a month ours 30k. And that is, at least mine is for paying in for 42 years!!

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

Letter of certification from a Thai bank supported by bank statements showing a pension being transferred to the pensioner’s bank account every month for at least 12 months.

If one is transferring a part or whole monthly pension that is deposited first directly into one's home nation's bank account such as Bank of America, how can the Thai bank certify the funds transferred to one's Thai bank account is from a pension?

• If "pension" is not specified such as called simply "funds", not a problem.
• If "pension" must be indicated in transferred funds from the home country to one's Thai bank, that's a problem.

Does the Thai government understand that Thai banks have online banking?

• Monthly statements are available online to account owner
• Data comes from the bank
• Can be printed and saved electronically
• Shows Bank's color logo in a format created by the Bank

Instead the government requires a bank certification of "pension" deposits. Other than a boon to additional bank income from account holders, certification is completely duplicitous.

Will the government specify the format and language for a bank's certification? There should be no disagreement between account holders and the bank as to what will be acceptable to the government.

[Moonlover]

17 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

8 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

I did not say that. He did. I simply mentioned it is possible to transfer money by using TransferWise or similar.

 

Please read posts properly and be sure of YOUR facts before posting.

 

17 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

I did post the facts, a shame you wish to contribute nothing but negativity.  But hey ho have a nice day and remember, you earn no brownie points for contradicting yourself on an anonymous forum.

Kindly go back to post #171 and read the thread from the top. You will then realize that I did not suggest that a UK bank will allow automatic transfers. In fact, no one has suggested that this is possible.

 

You jumped in half way through the conversation and completely misinterpreted what you read. It happens a lot on this forum.

 

Have a nice day yourself.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Moonlover