Suvarnabhumi Airport Is A Firetrap

[wintermute]

Typically a government thing. You approve a design (12 years ago) , you make changes, this government had all the time ton postpone the opening of the airport, they did not do so. They went along with the design (It is a well known Japanese agency, so there is not much reason to doubt them) than you use the toilet space for smoking rooms, and retail space. You lock the exits (bet they will blame the former government for the locked doors today) and than in the end, you create a panel. The panel contains only ass kissers of the goveernment which will always come with a guilty party, and you guess right. That is ALWAYS a foreign party...

500% CORRECT ! I couldn't say it better.....

You know what they have to start with in this country ? Banishing all those masked costumes which are been wearing by almost EVERYBODY ; from security guards over doormen to ministers.... Especially these last ones ! Take away all that shit and dress like normal people, not like circus clowns ! Then MAYBE they gonna do where they are payed for (although i doubt that...).

But i think they really are gonna loose face if they cannot show their suits anymore.... Verry silly !

Go to any thai organization and you will see the following:

An old out of touch poo yai wearing a conservative suit with a well coifed/manicured look standing around with a frown on their face. They don't seem to be doing anything useful except acting like the big bossman/bosswoman. In his entourage there are a whole lot of underlings wearing the prerequisite company uniform scampering around waiing and scraping to the poo yai. The poo yai issues a few vague and possibly incompetent commands while the underlings all race around trying to fulfill their duties. It's purely a top/down hierarchy with little to no compartmentalization or management networks that you would see in a western organization.

Then when the poo yai arbitrarily changes his mind (to show he/she's the boss) the underlings have to race around midway through their previous task to carry out the new one. If you have a problem with the way the poo yai is doing something then you better not say anything or you will get humped by the alpha dog.

This is why things don't work in Thailand they are stuck in a neverending costume party playing big chief and little indians.

[tuky]

Anyone knows smoke can kill you, but the cubic volume of air in there means it would need to be something big to fill it with smoke. A kitchen fire or an electrical panel wouldn't hardly make a dent in that volume.

What airport in the world is carpeted?

Actually, Changi is carpeted.

[tuky]

Typically a government thing. You approve a design (12 years ago) , you make changes, this government had all the time ton postpone the opening of the airport, they did not do so. They went along with the design (It is a well known Japanese agency, so there is not much reason to doubt them) than you use the toilet space for smoking rooms, and retail space. You lock the exits (bet they will blame the former government for the locked doors today) and than in the end, you create a panel. The panel contains only ass kissers of the goveernment which will always come with a guilty party, and you guess right. That is ALWAYS a foreign party...

500% CORRECT ! I couldn't say it better.....

You know what they have to start with in this country ? Banishing all those masked costumes which are been wearing by almost EVERYBODY ; from security guards over doormen to ministers.... Especially these last ones ! Take away all that shit and dress like normal people, not like circus clowns ! Then MAYBE they gonna do where they are payed for (although i doubt that...).

But i think they really are gonna loose face if they cannot show their suits anymore.... Verry silly !

HUH???

[John1012]

Why are international airlines still using Suvarnabhumi Airport if it is unsafe? If there is an accident either in landing, takeoff or in the terminal (due to internationally recognised safety standards not being adhered to) is the carrier liable for damages having knowingly used the facility ?

Can the carrier be taken to court for damages? Could an existing carrier be taken to court today for causing phycological damage to passengers by using a facility that is clearly unsafe? Is the carrier not responsible for ensuring the safety of it's customers? comments please.

[qualtrough]

Why are international airlines still using Suvarnabhumi Airport if it is unsafe? If there is an accident either in landing, takeoff or in the terminal (due to internationally recognised safety standards not being adhered to) is the carrier liable for damages having knowingly used the facility ?

Can the carrier be taken to court for damages? Could an existing carrier be taken to court today for causing phycological damage to passengers by using a facility that is clearly unsafe? Is the carrier not responsible for ensuring the safety of it's customers? comments please.

All good questions, and ones I and some others have raised before, but I doubt you will get an answer here from the know-alls. The short and correct answer, is yes. If you believe all the nay-sayers, all the airlines (60 plus now) are in a great conspiracy to continue operating in a terribly dangerous airport because they just don't want to spend any more money moving back to Don Muang. That is just absurd. For a start, the firms insuring these carriers would demand that they cease operations there or move if there was even a whiff of truth to the dire claims that have been made. Most claims which, by the way, have turned out to be exagerrated in the extreme.

The parties that would benefit from a move back to Don Muang and other parties (there is an overlap) that wish to tar Taksin with everything negative they can find, have bent over backward to case one aspersion after another on the new airport, no matter how ludicrous the claim. Expect a new claim to surface in a few days, and then another claim, and so on. Eventually they will either get their way (doubtful) or give up. There is a third alternative, and that is that they would actually sabotage the new airport in some way in order to get what they want. I would not rule that out.

One final point. Do all those worried about these latest claims think that Don Muang was some kind of state-of-the-art safety oasis in Thailand??

[bri1guy]

I knowticed a state of the art fire dept there at the Savarnabhumi airport & believe there are more than 1 station there. I was lucky to of met some of the Firefighters & know that the flights in & out are Fire Safe. The Airport may have Fire saftey deficiencies or bldg code hazards noted but it is a thirrd world country & they are much more safer and up to date than others. There is no need to say people could die when that fact is always true of a possible emergency at a airport but Preparedness (emergency evacation plans) are in place for that.

[mitrapaap]

So before everyone panics, how much of the interior of the airport is actually flamable?

Just the walls, carpet and ceiling.

Ceiling is glass - no..

Carpet - none that I have seen (yet - been there 15-odd times)

Walls - bare concrete, again, inflammable...

Of course, there is all the booze and perfume in the numerous King Power stores...

And smoke goes up, does not stick to the ground. With the huge dimensions of this hall people would probably have time to walk out the normal doors before being killed by smoke. (by which I don't mean that fire exit doors should be used as fire exit doors and nothing other than that).

If the designer had talked earlier, maybe before September 19, would anybody had listened to him? Or would it have been dangerous for him to open his mouth?

[mitrapaap]

I knowticed a state of the art fire dept there at the Savarnabhumi airport & believe there are more than 1 station there. I was lucky to of met some of the Firefighters & know that the flights in & out are Fire Safe. The Airport may have Fire saftey deficiencies or bldg code hazards noted but it is a thirrd world country & they are much more safer and up to date than others. There is no need to say people could die when that fact is always true of a possible emergency at a airport but Preparedness (emergency evacation plans) are in place for that.

Then why would you still think it is a third world country (just a rethorical question as I happen to be kind of allergic to this insult).

[mitrapaap]

Typically a government thing. You approve a design (12 years ago) , you make changes, this government had all the time ton postpone the opening of the airport, they did not do so. They went along with the design (It is a well known Japanese agency, so there is not much reason to doubt them) than you use the toilet space for smoking rooms, and retail space. You lock the exits (bet they will blame the former government for the locked doors today) and than in the end, you create a panel. The panel contains only ass kissers of the goveernment which will always come with a guilty party, and you guess right. That is ALWAYS a foreign party...

500% CORRECT ! I couldn't say it better.....

You know what they have to start with in this country ? Banishing all those masked costumes which are been wearing by almost EVERYBODY ; from security guards over doormen to ministers.... Especially these last ones ! Take away all that shit and dress like normal people, not like circus clowns ! Then MAYBE they gonna do where they are payed for (although i doubt that...).

But i think they really are gonna loose face if they cannot show their suits anymore.... Verry silly !

Go to any thai organization and you will see the following:

An old out of touch poo yai wearing a conservative suit with a well coifed/manicured look standing around with a frown on their face. They don't seem to be doing anything useful except acting like the big bossman/bosswoman. In his entourage there are a whole lot of underlings wearing the prerequisite company uniform scampering around waiing and scraping to the poo yai. The poo yai issues a few vague and possibly incompetent commands while the underlings all race around trying to fulfill their duties. It's purely a top/down hierarchy with little to no compartmentalization or management networks that you would see in a western organization.

Then when the poo yai arbitrarily changes his mind (to show he/she's the boss) the underlings have to race around midway through their previous task to carry out the new one. If you have a problem with the way the poo yai is doing something then you better not say anything or you will get humped by the alpha dog.

This is why things don't work in Thailand they are stuck in a neverending costume party playing big chief and little indians.

I used to work for a western poo yai (or should I say ars yai?). I now work for a Thai poo yai again. Much better and he is much more competent in many means than the other one was, is and will ever be. What I mean to tell you is that you might want to consider your global judgment of "any Thai organization".

[jbsears]

Typically a government thing. You approve a design (12 years ago) , you make changes, this government had all the time ton postpone the opening of the airport, they did not do so. They went along with the design (It is a well known Japanese agency, so there is not much reason to doubt them) than you use the toilet space for smoking rooms, and retail space. You lock the exits (bet they will blame the former government for the locked doors today) and than in the end, you create a panel. The panel contains only ass kissers of the goveernment which will always come with a guilty party, and you guess right. That is ALWAYS a foreign party...

500% CORRECT ! I couldn't say it better.....

You know what they have to start with in this country ? Banishing all those masked costumes which are been wearing by almost EVERYBODY ; from security guards over doormen to ministers.... Especially these last ones ! Take away all that shit and dress like normal people, not like circus clowns ! Then MAYBE they gonna do where they are payed for (although i doubt that...).

But i think they really are gonna loose face if they cannot show their suits anymore.... Verry silly !

Go to any thai organization and you will see the following:

An old out of touch poo yai wearing a conservative suit with a well coifed/manicured look standing around with a frown on their face. They don't seem to be doing anything useful except acting like the big bossman/bosswoman. In his entourage there are a whole lot of underlings wearing the prerequisite company uniform scampering around waiing and scraping to the poo yai. The poo yai issues a few vague and possibly incompetent commands while the underlings all race around trying to fulfill their duties. It's purely a top/down hierarchy with little to no compartmentalization or management networks that you would see in a western organization.

Then when the poo yai arbitrarily changes his mind (to show he/she's the boss) the underlings have to race around midway through their previous task to carry out the new one. If you have a problem with the way the poo yai is doing something then you better not say anything or you will get humped by the alpha dog.

This is why things don't work in Thailand they are stuck in a neverending costume party playing big chief and little indians.

I used to work for a western poo yai (or should I say ars yai?). I now work for a Thai poo yai again. Much better and he is much more competent in many means than the other one was, is and will ever be. What I mean to tell you is that you might want to consider your global judgment of "any Thai organization".

What is a Western poo yai? I didn't know they exist. I thought they were exclusive to Asian cultures like Thailand and China. I'm just a boy from Midwest States, so maybe they exist elsewhere.

[Scott]

I think there is some international treaty that limits the liability of an air carrier. Does anyone know about this or how it would affect any kind of incident (not necessarily just here, but at any airport that may have safety issues).

[slimdog]

I think there is some international treaty that limits the liability of an air carrier. Does anyone know about this or how it would affect any kind of incident (not necessarily just here, but at any airport that may have safety issues).

I presume you are referring to the " Warsaw Convention "

This is only applicable to International journeys, and places a limit of US$75,000 per passenger for death or injury, on the provision that the journey either starts, stops or transfers through the USA. On journeys which don't start, stop or transfer through the USA a limit of between US$ 10,000 - US$ 20,000 is applicable. The above liability is inclusive of any legal fees.

[John1012]

I knowticed a state of the art fire dept there at the Savarnabhumi airport & believe there are more than 1 station there. I was lucky to of met some of the Firefighters & know that the flights in & out are Fire Safe. The Airport may have Fire saftey deficiencies or bldg code hazards noted but it is a thirrd world country & they are much more safer and up to date than others. There is no need to say people could die when that fact is always true of a possible emergency at a airport but Preparedness (emergency evacation plans) are in place for that.

Then why would you still think it is a third world country (just a rethorical question as I happen to be kind of allergic to this insult).

I am sorry to stray from the main subject but I feel quite strongly about this.

mitrapaap, what is a third world country?

a country where corruption is endemic ?

a country where governments can govern in a manner suited to enhance the personal wealth and power of the senior members of that government?

a country where the rule of democracy is controlled by a wealthy elite?

a country where the military can take over control at the slightest whim?

a country where the human rights of non residents are treated with contempt , innocent until proven guilty?

a country that does not allow non residents to own land?

you tell me what a third world country is?

If Thailand fits the description, then it is not an insult to called a third world country, but the truth.

We 'Farangs' can do little to change this, we try, but it is very frustrating. I anm starting to develop a mild case of contempt for the Thai attitude of TIT.

[Tony Clifton]

Look at these headlines on the Nations frontpage...

SUVARNABHUMI

Foreign thieves target travellers

Thailand aims to protect heritageimage

[The Snark]

I would love to see the equivalent of a US Fire Marshall pay a series of surprise visits to various hotals and other public gathering locations in Thailand. You know, the people who have absolute authority and can't normally be bought. It would be a safe guess the Thailand would have about 10% of it's major businesses closed within in a week.

Edited March 2, 2007 by The Snark