Thai Elite visa tax issues

[alexanderhu]

lkv: I see, then probably I'll try to obtain a tax id and will pay taxes based on my assumption that my trading income is locally sourced. The other option is to spend only 5 months in Thailand and setup a tax residence in a low tax jurisdiction because the up to 37% marginal income tax rate here is a bit steep.

[lkv]

5 minutes ago, alexanderhu said:

lkv: I see, then probably I'll try to obtain a tax id and will pay taxes based on my assumption that my trading income is locally sourced. The other option is to spend only 5 months in Thailand and setup a tax residence in a low tax jurisdiction because the up to 37% marginal income tax rate here is a bit steep.

Better break it down in 3 countries, so that you don't exceed 6 months in the second one. ????

 

What strikes me though, is that, when referring to Thai Elite, you use the word "guaranteed". This word should be out of anybody's vocabulary, particularly a derivatives trader ????

[alexanderhu]

lkv: Well, if you pay ~€55,000 for a visa that allows you to stay for 20 years then you expect the government to honor it otherwise they'd ruin their reputation so bad that investors would probably think not twice but for long before believing them in any matter in the near future so I kinda think that it's a guaranteed way to be able to live here for 20 years although they may decide to cancel all of it and not to refund the fees but I find this highly unlikely.

 

I will just find one more where the highest marginal tax rate that's applicable on my income is below 20% and will spend the other 7 months there.

Edited January 9, 2019 by alexanderhu

[lkv]

2 minutes ago, alexanderhu said:

lkv: Well, if you pay ~€55,000 for a visa that allows you to stay for 20 years then you expect the government to honor it otherwise they'd ruin their reputation so bad that investors would probably think not twice but for long before believing them in any matter in the near future so I kinda think that it's a guaranteed way to be able to live here for 20 years although they may decide to cancel all of them and not to refund the fees but I find this highly unlikely.

Your scenario of chasing foreigners retroactively for unpaid taxes on foreign income is as unlikely as.

 

So I suggest you hang around Thailand as long as you wish and enjoy what you've paid for, i.e. Elite visa.

[Terek]

my opinion is that OP is insane or at least stressed a lot, and just looking for problems where there is none, I understand why Thai authorities not answer him. 9 pages of some maniacal obsession to pay tax which clearly is not required here. My sugesstion is to stop this obsession, head to Nana plaza for relax for start ????

[alexanderhu]

Terek: You're funny my friend. Well, the risk is mine not yours so it's a maniacal obsession for you but an actual risk for someone like me. I get your point though, things work in a different way here and I should understand that I won't get any legal clarification.

[Terek]

2 hours ago, alexanderhu said:

Terek: You're funny my friend. Well, the risk is mine not yours so it's a maniacal obsession for you but an actual risk for someone like me. I get your point though, things work in a different way here and I should understand that I won't get any legal clarification.

I think there is 1000 more dangerous risks here and in general, this is not actual risk, you are overthinking in my opinion, and you will not get any legal clarification about it. Better focus on trading ???? what you are trading, news? 

[LivinLOS]

On 1/9/2019 at 5:05 PM, humbug said:

many visas are gray area visas as they allow you stay for certain periods of time, marriage, education, retirement, elite but thats the point if you going to trash a visa and abuse its gray area on an open visa web board read by thousands, looked over by authorities is it really a smart thing to do????

 

Hell neon bright lights look at this thread tax issues with a gray area visa whoo hoo look at this mr immigration. 

 

This is my point its daft and on any other gray visa this thread would be a public threat, so why isnt the elite visa treated in the same way on this forum board?

 

The title should never have been allowed on this forum

 

the elite is not a visa that you pay taxes on income from working. So why have an op blatantly trashing the visa through mud by thinking you can get around the headache of opening a company name paying taxes through it and having a work permit. and instead live of a gray area visa in thailand and openly throw the visa under the bus with this type of thread

Because you do not need to open a company for buying and selling shares or other legal investments (bonds etc). 

 

This has been repeatedly said by officialdom. 

 

They say its fine.. Its not trashing or cheating if your doing what is stated as legal is it ?? 

[LivinLOS]

On 1/9/2019 at 4:49 PM, Crisu said:

 

 

I visited a lawyer last year in Phuket which i know already for several years and asked him can he arrange a thai TIN for me. I woud be also willing to pay some money.

He said there is only one chance left if i am not employed at a thai company with a salary and that is the way with a fixed deposit at a thai bank.

I also dont have any other taxable income like rental income or own a company in thailand.

So if you have 'nothing' right now, your chances are going to zero to obtain a TIN in 2019.

Stock trading does not entitle you to ask for a TIN!

But maybe other revenue departmens in TH will see it differently.

 

Simply not The case for me at all..  

 

Walked in.. Asked for one.. Took my passport copy and issued me one.. 

Tel them you have overseas rental income you need to remit tax on.. Its clearly in the tax code if you bring it in during the year it was 'earned'.. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

On 1/9/2019 at 5:38 PM, Naam said:

why? questions which cause a roar of laughter and a ridiculing rebuttal from our side are fun.

I actually had similar asking for income tax returns from the 90s.. 

 

When I couldnt provide them they closed my account despite having a long term banking history with them since 95.. Blew my mind.. 

[Crisu]

I am going to ask back the withholding tax from my fixed deposit account. But to be able to do that, you have to wait until the taxable year is finished (2018).So if you want to go this way too, you have to open a fixed deposit first and wait until 2019 is finished then you can try to obtain TIN in 2020 to be able to request back the withholding tax.One of my thai friends who assist me, talked with the thai revenue department in BKK and the staff told this way would be possible.No need work permit, no need thai elite visa. Just bring bank book as proof the bank charged tax on my interest + your residence in TH (e.g. rental agreement).Just in case i will prepare also copies of my passport, utility bill, certificate of residence of thai immigration    

 

 

 

 

Got my Thai Tax ID last week in Bangkok to request back payment of the withholding tax on my fixed deposit account    

 

Documents requested:  

 

Copy first page passport (Visa type unimportant)

 

Copy bank book

 

As proove of adress in TH copy of my thai driving licence. Rental agreement would be accepted too.

 

Fill out a form in thai.

 

Needed time: ~15 min.

 

 

On the Tax ID card everything is written in thai except the tax no. and my name.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cabbageform]

I am have exactly the same problem as yours. Just PMed you.

[oMega69]

On 1/21/2019 at 11:43 PM, Crisu said:

Got my Thai Tax ID last week in Bangkok to request back payment of the withholding tax on my fixed deposit account    

 

Documents requested:  

 

Copy first page passport (Visa type unimportant)

 

Copy bank book

 

As proove of adress in TH copy of my thai driving licence. Rental agreement would be accepted too.

 

Fill out a form in thai.

 

Needed time: ~15 min.

 

 

On the Tax ID card everything is written in thai except the tax no. and my name.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess its okey to declare ZERO thb in local income . . would be nice to get some Interest back from bank savings here.

[vibration]

I have a Thai Elite PE Visa and I happily pay tax to both Thailand and to Norway which is the main source of my pensjon income.

 

The tax paid to Thailand is only paid on pension derived in the same year it is sent to Thailand.

 

Previously I worked in Thailand and was given a Thai Tax ID which I use now to pay tax.

 

Because of Tax agreements between Thailand and Norway I am legally virtually tax free in both countries as my pensjonable income from Norway in Thailand can be used to reduce my taxable income in Norway.

 

We have neighbours where we live that are high up in the Tax Office and I asked them several years back when I became tax resident in Thailand if I needed to pay tax on pension sent to Thailand and they said that I do but only on income remitted in the same year it is derived.

 

Hope this information helps.

[oMega69]

13 hours ago, vibration said:

I have a Thai Elite PE Visa and I happily pay tax to both Thailand and to Norway which is the main source of my pensjon income.

 

The tax paid to Thailand is only paid on pension derived in the same year it is sent to Thailand.

 

Previously I worked in Thailand and was given a Thai Tax ID which I use now to pay tax.

 

Because of Tax agreements between Thailand and Norway I am legally virtually tax free in both countries as my pensjonable income from Norway in Thailand can be used to reduce my taxable income in Norway.

 

We have neighbours where we live that are high up in the Tax Office and I asked them several years back when I became tax resident in Thailand if I needed to pay tax on pension sent to Thailand and they said that I do but only on income remitted in the same year it is derived.

 

Hope this information helps.

 

Great so u pay only the TAX in Thailand and 0% to Norway sounds like a fair deal .

https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/taxes/get-the-taxes-right/employment-benefits-and-pensions/pension-and-disability-benefit/resident-abroad/countries/thailand/

Edited July 1, 2020 by oMega69

[squabtrick]

Not sure about the necro policy here.  

But anyone else managed to get an answer to this issue?  

Seems there are a few grey areas about it:

1. Whether you can daytrade with a foreign brokers or even a local one without a work permit on a tourist visa like Thai Elite Visa.
2. Whether they will give you a TIN.  
3. Whether the "tax if remitted the same year" rule still applies if your main income is from trading and general investments on foreign brokers.  

I think it's obvious that I and OP just want to pay lower taxes or even zero taxes. A tax ID and tax filing would be helpful to convince the tax office back home about my tax residency status. So it's not just about whether Thai tax authorities will pursue this or do an audit.  

 

Even if I need to pay taxes, the income tax rate in Thailand is pretty low. Just behind Singapore and Hong Kong. Although no idea if it will last, or if there are hidden taxes like social contributions, healthcare, TV license, etc.  

 

On 1/9/2019 at 10:16 PM, alexanderhu said:

the risk is mine not yours so it's a maniacal obsession for you but an actual risk for someone like me.

Good point. People give many advice online, but you're the one who will need to deal with the consequence in the end if you follow them.   

Edited June 14, 2022 by squabtrick

[phetphet]

I haven't read through the whole thread so I don't know f this has already been mentioned. Just a suggestion.

 

If one have any savings in a Thai bank account that are earning interest, and the bank imposes a withholding tax on that interest, I have seen others apply for a  Tax ID number to reclaim that interest.

 

Perhaps you could get one using that method, then go from there.

 

HTH.

Edited June 14, 2022 by phetphet