thaibeachlovers Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said: Oh the wall.Trump must think we live in prehistoric times Oops forget, he does not think like the rest of the civilised world Well he certainly doesn't think like most politicians. He actually wants to fulfil a campaign promise, unlike most politicians that have amnesia the moment they get elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becker Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 35 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: You take too much credit on my education. Attention: Israel- population nearly 9 million USA- population 327 million. I think there is also a discrepancy of border length between the 2 countries. will have to be patrolled and maintained by a large number of persons earning real wages. ??????????????? Never heard of CCTV? Cameras and a small helicopter force of guards will solve that problem in mountainous areas. CCTVs and helicopters monitored and maintained by people earing real wages, yes true. Thanks for making my point for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becker Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: Well he certainly doesn't think like most politicians. He actually wants to fulfil a campaign promise, unlike most politicians that have amnesia the moment they get elected. Well, when what you promise is pure idiocy then amnesia is much preferred. It does however seem like amnesia has set in among his base as he did repeatedly promise that Mexico would pay for the wall. Now that is one election promise he won't be able to keep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 36 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: Well he certainly doesn't think like most politicians. He actually wants to fulfil a campaign promise, unlike most politicians that have amnesia the moment they get elected. Actually the trump request for $5.6 billion for the 'wall" will only fund a relatively small amount of new infrastructure. Believe around $20billion additional need to complete a barrier. The current fight, created by trump, is a nonsensical distraction, demonstrating extremely poor ethics by trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said: Wrong, 230 miles in select areas. 5.7 billion dollars divided by 230 miles divided by 5280 feet per mile = a little over 4,700 dollars (150,000 baht) per foot. I thought that Trump was the master builder. The number is more than 10 times higher than it should be for a steel slatted wall and if Pelosi gives in he will close down the government again in September when next years budget must be submitted by throwing another temper tantrum to get what he wants! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srinivas Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 48 minutes ago, wayned said: 5.7 billion dollars divided by 230 miles divided by 5280 feet per mile = a little over 4,700 dollars (150,000 baht) per foot. I thought that Trump was the master builder. The number is more than 10 times higher than it should be for a steel slatted wall and if Pelosi gives in he will close down the government again in September when next years budget must be submitted by throwing another temper tantrum to get what he wants! add in height and you'll have a rough sqf cost allowance 4700/30feet=157/sqf now consider build quality requirements and location and make your bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacuum Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 How about a dome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 Troll post removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I think that the congressmen and senators are a bunch of idiots. Trump originally wanted 25 billion for 2000 miles of wall over all terrain. He now wants 5.7 billion for 230 miles over relatively "friendly" terrain. 230 is 11.5% of 2000, which would equate to 2.875 billion (.115 x 25 billion). But he is asking for 5.7 billion which is 2 times the 2.875 billion. Why doesn't somebody nail his ass to the wall and have him produce a detailed construction plan that justifies the 5.7 billion, I bet that he or his cronies don't have a clue, Stephen Miller most likely pulled it out of a place where the sun doesn't shine!. Pelosi is right give him "0" for the wall until he reopens the government and demand a financial study justifying the construction of 230 miles of steel slatted barrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 1/20/2019 at 6:20 AM, mcambl61 said: There are areas where the terrain is too severe to cross, so a barrier is not needed. what is not being conveyed by either side of the debate is precisely what parts are not protected where pedestrian or vehicle traffic can still cross, most of it is in Texas. Add to that what parts are private land and which land owners agree to install a barrier and which ones do not. As far as your "logic" that there are less apprehensions, so you think there is no problem. There simply has to be a better deterrent to illegal crossings and to visa overstays. how much longer do citizens have to tolerate illegal immigration at the scale it has become with most REALISTIC estimates at almost 20 million illegals in the country? https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0201193 It is insane to keep allowing this to continue. We have a backlog of over 900k immigration cases waiting for hearings for people crossing illegally, and you think there is no problem? And I have never heard one single explanation of this "better management and technology" argument/solution with what does it mean and what data shows it will work. Do you have this or are you just saying it because you do not want any improvements or additional barriers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slip Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 1/21/2019 at 10:28 AM, thaibeachlovers said: You take too much credit on my education. Attention: Israel- population nearly 9 million USA- population 327 million. I think there is also a discrepancy of border length between the 2 countries. will have to be patrolled and maintained by a large number of persons earning real wages. ??????????????? Never heard of CCTV? Cameras and a small helicopter force of guards will solve that problem in mountainous areas. Should be fun trying to land those choppers on the mountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVENKEEL Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 9 hours ago, wayned said: I think that the congressmen and senators are a bunch of idiots. Trump originally wanted 25 billion for 2000 miles of wall over all terrain. He now wants 5.7 billion for 230 miles over relatively "friendly" terrain. 230 is 11.5% of 2000, which would equate to 2.875 billion (.115 x 25 billion). But he is asking for 5.7 billion which is 2 times the 2.875 billion. Why doesn't somebody nail his ass to the wall and have him produce a detailed construction plan that justifies the 5.7 billion, I bet that he or his cronies don't have a clue, Stephen Miller most likely pulled it out of a place where the sun doesn't shine!. Pelosi is right give him "0" for the wall until he reopens the government and demand a financial study justifying the construction of 230 miles of steel slatted barrier. You forgot the wall is "Immoral" don't you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said: You forgot the wall is "Immoral" don't you know. You forgot that the Republicans made the border their #1 campaign issue. Doesn't seem to be a lot of support out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 1/21/2019 at 6:32 AM, thaibeachlovers said: Well he certainly doesn't think like most politicians. He actually wants to fulfil a campaign promise, unlike most politicians that have amnesia the moment they get elected. His campaign promise was Mexico would pay for the wall, not the tax payer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 hour ago, bristolboy said: You forgot that the Republicans made the border their #1 campaign issue. Doesn't seem to be a lot of support out there. He will not give in on the 5.7 billion for the wall. president Coulter, Vice President Limbaugh and Secretary of State Hannity will never let him. They also will never let him agree to a permanent solution to DACA and TPS with a road to citizenship as that will be an amnesty program. He's between a rock and a hard place and as I see it his only option is to declare a national emergency and take the heat for pulling funds from other crisis programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said: You forgot the wall is "Immoral" don't you know. Immoral or not, he should be forced to provide a detailed development plan. After all, according to him, he is running the government like a business and what business would propose a construction project without a detailed development plan. I'm not sure that anybody in either the house or the senate, on either side of the asile, have a clue. They are just worried about where their next check will come from when 25% of the country is not being paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVENKEEL Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 5 hours ago, wayned said: Immoral or not, he should be forced to provide a detailed development plan. After all, according to him, he is running the government like a business and what business would propose a construction project without a detailed development plan. I'm not sure that anybody in either the house or the senate, on either side of the asile, have a clue. They are just worried about where their next check will come from when 25% of the country is not being paid. One of nancy's lines was the wall is "Immoral", you can't run from that one. You simply making things up about 25% of country not being paid. Think about it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Trump has claimed the wall is needed to stop drug trafficking. It seems that's not going to work. El Chapo Trial Suggests Trump’s Wall Would Do Little to Stop Drug Smuggling Some of the drugs were hidden in passenger cars, concealed in trucks in cans of jalapeños or stashed in tanker trains with ordinary loads of cooking oil. Others were sent beneath the border in sophisticated tunnels. The 10 weeks of testimony at the trial of Joaquín Guzmán Loera, the drug lord known as El Chapo, have revealed that his innovative smuggling network typically went through legal checkpoints — not isolated stretches of the border where a wall might be an obstacle. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/nyregion/el-chapo-trial-border-wall.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cu&fbclid=IwAR22vcutOFlypLIUkx2dy-SiKk5KGIKnz1UWP-zMUF3of8LhJvrw6N58jA0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 6 hours ago, wayned said: Immoral or not, he should be forced to provide a detailed development plan. After all, according to him, he is running the government like a business and what business would propose a construction project without a detailed development plan. I'm not sure that anybody in either the house or the senate, on either side of the asile, have a clue. They are just worried about where their next check will come from when 25% of the country is not being paid. I'm not running from immoral as I said immoral or not, he still needs to provide a detailed plan and he doesn't have a clue! I will correct the 25% of the country to say 25% of the federal workers but what nobody seems to say much about is the government contractors and the industries that depend on these workers. I was one of those contract employees at Goddard Space Center when I was in college and about 50% of the workers at the facility were contract employees that worked for different contractors each year as the contracts came up for bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcambl61 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 7 hours ago, wayned said: Immoral or not, he should be forced to provide a detailed development plan. After all, according to him, he is running the government like a business and what business would propose a construction project without a detailed development plan. I'm not sure that anybody in either the house or the senate, on either side of the asile, have a clue. They are just worried about where their next check will come from when 25% of the country is not being paid. unlike the non existent democratic plan, here is what has been offered: Key details of Trump's plan to end shutdown The White House sent out key aspects, both the key money figures and compromises, of the plan after Trump's speech: $5.7 billion to fund a "steel barrier" in "priority areas" noted by Border Patrol $675 million for increased drug detection technology at ports of entry $130 million for canine units, training and more personnel $800 million in humanitarian assistance $782 million for 2,750 additional border agents $563 million to hire 75 new immigration judges Three years of protection from deportation for certain undocumented immigrants https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/19/donald-trump-announcement-shutdown-border-white-house/2623790002/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcambl61 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Credo said: Trump has claimed the wall is needed to stop drug trafficking. It seems that's not going to work. El Chapo Trial Suggests Trump’s Wall Would Do Little to Stop Drug Smuggling Some of the drugs were hidden in passenger cars, concealed in trucks in cans of jalapeños or stashed in tanker trains with ordinary loads of cooking oil. Others were sent beneath the border in sophisticated tunnels. The 10 weeks of testimony at the trial of Joaquín Guzmán Loera, the drug lord known as El Chapo, have revealed that his innovative smuggling network typically went through legal checkpoints — not isolated stretches of the border where a wall might be an obstacle. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/nyregion/el-chapo-trial-border-wall.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cu&fbclid=IwAR22vcutOFlypLIUkx2dy-SiKk5KGIKnz1UWP-zMUF3of8LhJvrw6N58jA0 so I guess the additional money for more detection and personnel and canine units would help with this, or does that not matter to the Ny times with an agenda? Key details of Trump's plan to end shutdown The White House sent out key aspects, both the key money figures and compromises, of the plan after Trump's speech: $5.7 billion to fund a "steel barrier" in "priority areas" noted by Border Patrol $675 million for increased drug detection technology at ports of entry $130 million for canine units, training and more personnel $800 million in humanitarian assistance $782 million for 2,750 additional border agents $563 million to hire 75 new immigration judges Three years of protection from deportation for certain undocumented immigrants https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/19/donald-trump-announcement-shutdown-border-white-house/2623790002/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, mcambl61 said: so I guess the additional money for more detection and personnel and canine units would help with this, or does that not matter to the Ny times with an agenda? Key details of Trump's plan to end shutdown The White House sent out key aspects, both the key money figures and compromises, of the plan after Trump's speech: $5.7 billion to fund a "steel barrier" in "priority areas" noted by Border Patrol $675 million for increased drug detection technology at ports of entry $130 million for canine units, training and more personnel $800 million in humanitarian assistance $782 million for 2,750 additional border agents $563 million to hire 75 new immigration judges Three years of protection from deportation for certain undocumented immigrants https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/19/donald-trump-announcement-shutdown-border-white-house/2623790002/ And what's stopping Trump from proposing those measures without money for the Wall? Or are the somehow useless without the Wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, mcambl61 said: unlike the non existent democratic plan, here is what has been offered: Key details of Trump's plan to end shutdown The White House sent out key aspects, both the key money figures and compromises, of the plan after Trump's speech: $5.7 billion to fund a "steel barrier" in "priority areas" noted by Border Patrol $675 million for increased drug detection technology at ports of entry $130 million for canine units, training and more personnel $800 million in humanitarian assistance $782 million for 2,750 additional border agents $563 million to hire 75 new immigration judges Three years of protection from deportation for certain undocumented immigrants https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/19/donald-trump-announcement-shutdown-border-white-house/2623790002/ As i said, no explanation of the 5.7 billion. before it was 25 billion for 2000 miles now it's 5.7 billion for 239 miles in mostly desert terrain. 230 is 11.5% of 2000, which would equate to 2.875 billion not 5.7 billion which is double, why? The deal offered for the DACA and TSP people is only temporary, the wall is permanent, the offer should be a permanent resolution to the problem. You forgot to mention the little poison pill that Stephen miller threw in that drastically limits the rights of immigrants asking for asylum. Pelosi is adding 1 billion to her bill to re-open the government but she will not agree to any money for the wall. If she does, what's to keep Trump from throwing another temper tantrum when he wants something else and close down the government again. Open the government and then discuss further immigration changes including proper funding for a 230 mile barrier. It won't be long before TSA shuts down the airports if he doesn't start paying them, they just can't survive. He really thinks that they are "expendables" and can be replaced quickly. He's now calling back farm loan people to work without pay to process farm loans, a critical part of his base. He grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth and doesn't really give a crap about any body but himself. It won't be long before Don Jr. has bus tire tracks on his back! A total Psychopath! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said: One of nancy's lines was the wall is "Immoral", you can't run from that one. You simply making things up about 25% of country not being paid. Think about it...... So what if Nancy Pelosi claimed it? The only people in this thread and others that I see referring to it are supporters of the Wall. Whereas I see plenty of Trump supporters backing his lies about the wall being a major hindrance to terrorist infiltrators and drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 21 minutes ago, bristolboy said: And what's stopping Trump from proposing those measures without money for the Wall? Or are the somehow useless without the Wall? I suspect the Pelosi would accept most of this without the wall, but his wall is the pillar of his presidency. If they pass the bill without the wall he will have no bargaining power, the lives of the people and businesses that are suffering due to the shut down, and without the wall he will loose the support of Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity and possibly a big chunk of his base! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcambl61 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, wayned said: As i said, no explanation of the 5.7 billion. before it was 25 billion for 2000 miles now it's 5.7 billion for 239 miles in mostly desert terrain. 230 is 11.5% of 2000, which would equate to 2.875 billion not 5.7 billion which is double, why? The deal offered for the DACA and TSP people is only temporary, the wall is permanent, the offer should be a permanent resolution to the problem. You forgot to mention the little poison pill that Stephen miller threw in that drastically limits the rights of immigrants asking for asylum. Pelosi is adding 1 billion to her bill to re-open the government but she will not agree to any money for the wall. If she does, what's to keep Trump from throwing another temper tantrum when he wants something else and close down the government again. Open the government and then discuss further immigration changes including proper funding for a 230 mile barrier. It won't be long before TSA shuts down the airports if he doesn't start paying them, they just can't survive. He really thinks that they are "expendables" and can be replaced quickly. He's now calling back farm loan people to work without pay to process farm loans, a critical part of his base. He grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth and doesn't really give a crap about any body but himself. It won't be long before Don Jr. has bus tire tracks on his back! A total Psychopath! it was never a 2000 miles, as there were already existing barriers, so please get the facts straight. as far as the cost increase you are trying to say is not warranted, do you think land acquisition prices and construction cost might have risen in 17 years, or for that matter, you don't think the style and type of barrier is not the same as the bare minimum installed before? that would require common sense and logic though. these are the proposed outlines of the border security, so should the dems propose a compromise? Where is it? what are they proposing? give details if they are serious, where is it? so just say no and nothing changes. The leftist base will never forgive the dems if anything is compromised or approved. as far as the vacuously obtuse silver spoon comment, how does a woman in politics since 1962 and has never done anything else amass a net worth of 20 million dollars? I'm sure it was all sheer wise investing and savings it no advantages being exploited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smotherb Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 On 1/21/2019 at 9:53 AM, thaibeachlovers said: which does not mean that illegal alien entry will not increase in the future. No wall in history has ever stopped SOME people crossing, and there always has to be a human element behind it to make it effective. A wall is like having a lock on your front door- it won't actually stop any one entering if they want to, but it is a deterrent, and slows them down so defenders can react. IMO, had the great one wanted a wall, everyone currently opposed would have been praising him for his "cleverness" and all for it. Haven't the Dems supported a wall in the past? This, IMO, is purely and simply an anti Trump thing by the "resistance". If the angel Gabriel came down and said God was going to construct a wall for free in 6 days and nights as long as Trump was to take the credit, the same opposition would be opposing still. TDS much? Yes, it's just an anti-Trump thing; everybody would like a wall around their country. While we're at it, why not add concertina wire, a moat filled with sharks, electrified fencing and mines. We could even make the moat 10 miles wide and fill it with hydrofluoric acid; wouldn't need the sharks then. Or, you could just put the angels on duty keeping all those illegal aliens out of the US and sending then straight to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcambl61 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, wayned said: I suspect the Pelosi would accept most of this without the wall, but his wall is the pillar of his presidency. If they pass the bill without the wall he will have no bargaining power, the lives of the people and businesses that are suffering due to the shut down, and without the wall he will loose the support of Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity and possibly a big chunk of his base! works both ways, Dems would be villified for any compromise by the vacuous progressive hive and their compliant media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcambl61 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, wayned said: I suspect the Pelosi would accept most of this without the wall, but his wall is the pillar of his presidency. If they pass the bill without the wall he will have no bargaining power, the lives of the people and businesses that are suffering due to the shut down, and without the wall he will loose the support of Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity and possibly a big chunk of his base! works both ways, Dems would be vilified for any compromise by the vacuous progressive hive and their compliant media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, mcambl61 said: it was never a 2000 miles, as there were already existing barriers, so please get the facts straight. as far as the cost increase you are trying to say is not warranted, do you think land acquisition prices and construction cost might have risen in 17 years, or for that matter, you don't think the style and type of barrier is not the same as the bare minimum installed before? that would require common sense and logic though. these are the proposed outlines of the border security, so should the dems propose a compromise? Where is it? what are they proposing? give details if they are serious, where is it? so just say no and nothing changes. The leftist base will never forgive the dems if anything is compromised or approved. as far as the vacuously obtuse silver spoon comment, how does a woman in politics since 1962 and has never done anything else amass a net worth of 20 million dollars? I'm sure it was all sheer wise investing and savings it no advantages being exploited. Someone else who apparently suffers from a disability when it comes to using Google search: How Nancy Pelosi Achieved a Net Worth of $29 Million "In a nutshell, it all comes down to real estate. As it turns out, she and her husband have been heavily involved in real estate for several years. She actually owns a number of different properties, including several commercial properties that are used as apartment buildings or as office space for corporations" https://moneyinc.com/nancy-pelosi-net-worth/ And it's worth noting that she opposed the tax cut bill which favored real estate investors to a ridiculous degree. Unlike a certain President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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