EU leaders express dismay after May's Brexit defeat

[rixalex]

30 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Finally with an aging population, we need working age immigrants. We've already turned around EU immigration just through being unpleasant; where do you want immigrants coming from? 

I find it staggering that after all the exchanges we have had on this topic, you feel the need to ask. I have made my point abundantly clearly, countless times. I don't care where the immigrants come from. I care about what they can offer the country and how they will fit in. Each person judged on their own merits, not on their passport.

[Snow Leopard]

On 1/16/2019 at 3:24 AM, Thailand said:

Another referendum coming soon!

Not a chance. It will be a no deal exit.

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, rixalex said:

I find it staggering that after all the exchanges we have had on this topic, you feel the need to ask. I have made my point abundantly clearly, countless times. I don't care where the immigrants come from. I care about what they can offer the country and how they will fit in. Each person judged on their own merits, not on their passport.

Which merits?

 

How will you control for the merits you favour?

 

I favour short blond gymnasts with respect for aged engineers

Edited January 18, 2019 by Grouse

[melvinmelvin]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Obviously better to bring in working age Europeans during their most productive years

obviously? how so?

I think this is a multi faceted and not so easy question

 

A debate re this problem area is currently on in Norway.

(when I was young the average mother had about 2.3 children, the figure is now down to about 1.5)

 

The PM is strongly arguing that more boomboom and kids are needed,

she says the country needs more people that work in order to fill the

coffers for taking care of the growing old generation.

 

The researchers in the Statistical Bureau disagrees with the PM.

They say that more boomboom and more working heads/hands are fine,

but that will NOT improve the satang level in the coffers.

They point to the very high keep cost for the average Norwegian.

 

 

 

[rixalex]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Which merits?

 

How will you control for the merits you favour?

 

I favour short blond gymnasts with respect for aged engineers

Work-related merits.

 

Suggest starting with their experience and qualifications and go from there. It's not exactly rocket science.

[vogie]

The BBC were impartial again last night, not. Question Time gave us as its panelists 4 remainers and 1 leaver, although 1 remainer was Dianne Abbott, maybe that evened things out a bit, no a lot.

Isabel Oakeshot tries to explain some logic to DA, but I don't think she or the Labour party does logic.

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

 

Funny that. Of course for you, a British man living in the EU, reciprocal rights are very valuable. How valuable are they for the rest of British people though?

How valuable is Brexit for the British people? 

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Work-related merits.

 

Suggest starting with their experience and qualifications and go from there. It's not exactly rocket science.

Correct, but we can't control our borders as it is 

 

Are you sure that Somalian wheel barrow operator will have an equivalent licence to a British one?

[dick dasterdly]

10 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Work-related merits.

 

Suggest starting with their experience and qualifications and go from there. It's not exactly rocket science.

I agree.  Those who have found a job (before arriving) paying 30,000 p.a. or more, no problem

 

It's those who arrive with little in the way of skills, and so are keeping wages down for the lowest in society that need to be stopped IMO.

[Snow Leopard]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree.  Those who have found a job (before arriving) paying 30,000 p.a. or more, no problem

 

It's those who arrive with little in the way of skills, and so are keeping wages down for the lowest in society that need to be stopped IMO.

Everyone forgets that EU workers are entitled to all the social benefits as would be a British worker. So if you are earning 20-30K as an EU national working in the UK you would probably have your family with you. All the benefits you are given and paid subsequently then are spent in the UK economy adding to GDP.

 

If you are earning under 20K the chances are that your family will not be with you. You will be spending the minimum amount required to live off. Living in cheap shared accommodation, etc. At this level of salary, you are paying virtually no income tax but you are entitled to every social benefit, You will be sending most of your income back to your own home country this then has a negative impact on the UK GDP.

 

A worker from outside the EU is not entitled to any social benefits unless they are employed. This type of immigration is the easiest to control. Both how many and the length of stay. Probably quite neutral in terms of GDP. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

29 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree.  Those who have found a job (before arriving) paying 30,000 p.a. or more, no problem

 

It's those who arrive with little in the way of skills, and so are keeping wages down for the lowest in society that need to be stopped IMO.

Minimum wage to low? Too high? What?

[rixalex]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Correct, but we can't control our borders as it is 

 

Are you sure that Somalian wheel barrow operator will have an equivalent licence to a British one?

Leaving the EU and getting out of the open door immigration policy we are a part of thanks to EU membership, doesn't guarantee our government does a good job of controlling our borders, but it does mean that they have no excuse for not.

 

On your second question, it's surely incumbent on immigration department, if they are seeking wheel barrow operators, to find out what the standards are in the country of said immigrant, and for them to make a decision as to whether or not they are sufficiently high enough.

 

Australia, amongst many other countries, seems able to make such decisions about immigrants and their qualifications. Why do you think we can't?

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Leaving the EU and getting out of the open door immigration policy we are a part of thanks to EU membership, doesn't guarantee our government does a good job of controlling our borders, but it does mean that they have no excuse for not.

 

On your second question, it's surely incumbent on immigration department, if they are seeking wheel barrow operators, to find out what the standards are in the country of said immigrant, and for them to make a decision as to whether or not they are sufficiently high enough.

 

Australia, amongst many other countries, seems able to make such decisions about immigrants and their qualifications. Why do you think we can't?

Because we have 10x the population and are rather less diligent. EU immigration has already plumetted due to nastiness. Ready to deal with all the Africans and South Asians and the coming chapati shortage crisis?

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Leaving the EU and getting out of the open door immigration policy we are a part of thanks to EU membership, doesn't guarantee our government does a good job of controlling our borders, but it does mean that they have no excuse for not.

 

On your second question, it's surely incumbent on immigration department, if they are seeking wheel barrow operators, to find out what the standards are in the country of said immigrant, and for them to make a decision as to whether or not they are sufficiently high enough.

 

Australia, amongst many other countries, seems able to make such decisions about immigrants and their qualifications. Why do you think we can't?

"Leaving the EU and getting out of the open door immigration policy we are a part of thanks to EU membership, doesn't guarantee our government does a good job of controlling our borders, but it does mean that they have no excuse for not."

 

Agree.

 

But better to ignore the rest of his posts about "wheel barrow operators" and the like (roll eyes)......

Edited January 18, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Leaving the EU and getting out of the open door immigration policy we are a part of thanks to EU membership, doesn't guarantee our government does a good job of controlling our borders, but it does mean that they have no excuse for not."

 

Agree.

 

But better to ignore the rest of his post about "wheel barrow operators"  (roll eyes)......

Please sir, Yogi started it; the wheel barrow starter that is. I shall stop the references now.

[rixalex]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Because we have 10x the population and are rather less diligent. EU immigration has already plumetted due to nastiness. Ready to deal with all the Africans and South Asians and the coming chapati shortage crisis?

I'm sorry, but someone who makes the sweeping sort of generalisations that you do about Muslims, about Africans, about Asians, about Somalians, etc, doesn't then get to shake his head and bemoan the nastiness towards immigrants. You ARE that bigoted nastiness.

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

I'm sorry, but someone who makes the sweeping sort of generalisations that you do about Muslims, about Africans, about Asians, about Somalians, etc, doesn't then get to shake his head and bemoan the nastiness towards immigrants. You ARE that bigoted nastiness.

 

I am a bigot WRT muslims.

 

But I'm not nasty

 

I just feel that Europeans integrate rather more successfully 

Edited January 18, 2019 by Grouse

[rixalex]

I am a bigot WRT muslims.
 
But I'm not nasty
 
I just feel that Europeans integrate rather more successfully 

You're making judgements on people purely based on their nationality. That's pretty nasty.

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[ivor bigun]

Another referendum coming soon!

Doubt it very much,they might want one ,but will not

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[vogie]

Just now, ivor bigun said:

Doubt it very much,they might want one ,but will not

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They had a show of hands on the Question Time program last night about another referendum and if that's all to go by.

????????????????

 

 

[ivor bigun]

You're making judgements on people purely based on their nationality. That's pretty nasty.

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Trouble is the good ones get lumped in with the thousands of bad ones that cause most of the trouble,you just have to look at the pictures of the vast majority of people who do all the knife crime in London.

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[ivor bigun]

They had a show of hands on the Question Time program last night about another referendum and if that's all to go by.
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
 
 

What was the outcome,cant open the tweet.

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[vogie]

1 minute ago, ivor bigun said:

What was the outcome,cant open the tweet.

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Out of the approx 40 audience members only 3 raised their hands for another referendum.

[evadgib]

23 minutes ago, vogie said:

Out of the approx 40 audience members only 3 raised their hands for another referendum.

I note too that Abbot conceded that we'd win again if they were daft enough to be granted an 'action replay'; as did Alan Johnson on weekly politics afterwards.

Edited January 18, 2019 by evadgib

[ivor bigun]

Out of the approx 40 audience members only 3 raised their hands for another referendum.

I reckon that if there ever was another vote the no wanting to leave would be far higher,but still do not think there willbe one

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[Retiredandhappyhere]

On 1/16/2019 at 4:22 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Are you serious?

The EU was consistent from the very beginning about what is possible and what not. The UK had the choice between some realistic options. But they didn't want realistic options, they wanted the cake and eat it with lots of cherries on top. That option does not exist and it will never exist.

It's not that the EU has the unicorns hidden somewhere and that the UK only has to put enough pressure on them to release the unicorns. THE UNICORNS DON'T EXIST! Why is that so difficult to understand?

Lot of people here want to leave but they ignore the consequences. The UK will have to work together with the EU on many levels in the future. And to do this efficiently you need agreements, lots of agreements, like now as part of the EU.

Many agreements are complicated and work only in combination with each others. How should that work? On 1st of April they will sit together and think about agreements for visas, flights, rights for the citizens, business regulations, and, and, and?

This is what they were trying to do in the last two years and they failed to find a solution. And they failed because the UK parliament and even the tory MPs couldn't make up their minds what they really want. Why should any of this work better after a no deal brexit? It's mission impossible!

Basically, what you are saying is that any country that is, or becomes, a member of the EU is a prisoner in the organisation and that there is no realistic way out.  When I join a club, I do so on the understanding that I can leave when I want to and I do not expect to have, for example, to pay for the future pensions of people who happened to be employed there when I was a member, whether or not I agreed directly or indirectly for their employment at the time.

[Loiner]

Basically, what you are saying is that any country that is, or becomes, a member of the EU is a prisoner in the organisation and that there is no realistic way out.  When I join a club, I do so on the understanding that I can leave when I want to and I do not expect to have, for example, to pay for the future pensions of people who happened to be employed there when I was a member, whether or not I agreed directly or indirectly for their employment at the time.

I simply stop paying the subs and break their rules. They tend to kick me out then, which has the desired effect.


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[whatsupdoc]

On 1/19/2019 at 9:41 PM, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Basically, what you are saying is that any country that is, or becomes, a member of the EU is a prisoner in the organisation and that there is no realistic way out.  When I join a club, I do so on the understanding that I can leave when I want to and I do not expect to have, for example, to pay for the future pensions of people who happened to be employed there when I was a member, whether or not I agreed directly or indirectly for their employment at the time.

Any EU member can leave; just trigger A50 and go (but there are consequences in doing so.......)

 

How about those pensions you mention?

Should the British who worked at the EU not get any pension or do you expect the Polish (or any other EU country) to pay for it?

Gotta love the society the Brexiteers are trying to build.....

[melvinmelvin]

6 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Any EU member can leave; just trigger A50 and go (but there are consequences in doing so.......)

 

How about those pensions you mention?

Should the British who worked at the EU not get any pension or do you expect the Polish (or any other EU country) to pay for it?

Gotta love the society the Brexiteers are trying to build.....

yes,

the collective EU should pay the pensions,

there is no meaning in the UK paying those, the Brits working in EU work

for the benefit of EU, not for the UK

 

 

[whatsupdoc]

7 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

yes,

the collective EU should pay the pensions,

there is no meaning in the UK paying those, the Brits working in EU work

for the benefit of EU, not for the UK

 

 

No, Nigel Farage didn't.