Help Me Im starving

[whimsicalmike]

On 1/20/2019 at 5:07 PM, poohy said:

 April an May in will be back in UK feasting on real food and drinking real beer.

England has proper food? My god when did they get that, finally ????

[lensta]

On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 4:01 PM, Nyezhov said:

Cardiologist said no keto. Balanced healthy diet. I feel like I'm withdrawing from drugs. the thought of stir fried Chinese broccoli and a piece of chicken breast for dinner tonight makes me want to fly off the balcony. maybe I'll go see if the fruit guy is outside and I'll gorge myself on papaya.

Yes I am sure that your Cardiologist did say that and by listening to them and nutritionists the world has got fatter and fatter. Also look at the rate of diabetes world wide. Go to https://www.dietdoctor.com/ and educate yourself.

 

[geriatrickid]

On 1/20/2019 at 4:09 AM, madmen said:

He said no keto? So low carb steamed Veges eg cauliflower and a chicken breast steamed or grilled is bad for the heart? 

That is not the trendy keto diet. And the fact of the matter is that the cardiologist was correct. There are  set diet plans for heart patients. These plans are tried, tested and proven.  Heart patients  have special parameters in respect to sodium, potassium etc. Depending upon the medications taken certain vegetables are reduced or avoided (e.g. people on blood thinners should reduce their intake of kale, spinach, green tea etc.) 

 

Everyone has a diet plan they guarantee  will work. The  problem is that  many heart patients are different and the purveyors of the diet advice are not there when  blood pressure soars or a person is haemorrhaging in the gut and bowel because a diet wasn't right. Let the patient follow the guidance of the person who has reviewed the medical dossier and is aware of the patient's details.

[robblok]

29 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Dude your basic civil war ration was carb and fat heavy.

 

Your skinny Irishman of the 19th Century lived on Taters.

 

You scrawny Russian peasant lived on Bread and Kasha.

 

Nothing wrong with carbs. Its the processing, the sugars the lack of excersize, the lack of balance. Nothing wrong with animal fats in moderation. Nothing wrong with some vegtable fats in moderation.

 

The fat guts are from all the crap we eat. The crap we didnt eat 100 years ago meant we werent fat. And we excersized more.

 

Your adherence to Keto as the end all and be all is getting to the point of religious fervor and Infomercial territory. Are you seriously contending that keto is a healthier diet than a well balanced diet of vegtables (carbs), fruits (carbs), fish/meat? You think that one cannot give up the bad processed carbs and sugars if they have to?

 

Here tell me this: If I ate a cup of steamed broccoli for lunch, with a half a cup of brown rice, with 4 oz of salmon grilled in olive oil and garlic, is that unhealthy in the keto world?

 \

By the way, where do you Keto dudes get your fiber?

Arent there many fibers in vegetables.. i assume even Keto dudes eat vegetables. I buy brocoli frozen from the macro and frozen peas beans corn and carrots in one bag.. probably a deadly sin in Keto land. But it helps my diet. The moment we start demonizing vegetables even if they contain carbs is the moment we overshoot the target.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Benroon said:

I’ve just spent an hour reading every single post across the 13 pages and this is comfortably the best thread I’ve ever read on here!

 

Some great info, really informative links, no paranoid anti Thai crap, proper, mostly informed, debate.

 

This added bugger all of course but just felt better saying that!

 

Personally my weight fluctuates like crazy, to TRY and control it I do 100 25 meter lengths in the pool in about 55 mins  (Tru Arena gym) - every other day and inbeteeen days do 1 hour fairly heavy weights! Loads of research to suggest weights are your best friend in a gym for overall health but so many people walk past them to get to the treadmill.

 

Weskness is I can’t go a day without a mountain of chicken and cashew nuts spiced to the max and cold cold beer!! 

 

Lately (few months) felt numerous heart ‘flutters’ but the first google search says perfectly normal so I’m not reading search 2,3,4 or 5 !

 

Hope everyone stays healthy 

Weight lifting is even better if you can remove the beer and adhere to a good diet. I been training for years and years and got fat even when training. You can't out train a bad diet. When i finally was fed up with being fat i changed my diet and all of a sudden slabs of muscle started to appear (as long as i lifted heavy). The magic really happens when you control your diet.

 

If you don't want to .. so be it up to you. I won't force anyone to do anything they don't want.

[robblok]

17 minutes ago, lensta said:

Yes I am sure that your Cardiologist did say that and by listening to them and nutritionists the world has got fatter and fatter. Also look at the rate of diabetes world wide. Go to https://www.dietdoctor.com/ and educate yourself.

 

There we have an other one.. your funny. I bet no nutritionist ever said to over eat ?. That is what causing weight gain, not certain foods. 

[Nyezhov]

21 minutes ago, lensta said:

Yes I am sure that your Cardiologist did say that and by listening to them and nutritionists the world has got fatter and fatter. Also look at the rate of diabetes world wide. Go to https://www.dietdoctor.com/ and educate yourself.

 

Another money grubbing website run by a bunch of non experts? No thanks.

[PBob]

Take one four times a day after meals.

[FracturedRabbit]

38 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Winner

 

My comment is going to be: show me a peer reviewed study out of a top Medical School that Keto is the Cure all.

 

Everyone loves Snake Oil.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18175736

 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-789X.2012.01021.x

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27059106

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext

 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circulationaha.109.879254

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29522789

 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs13300-018-0373-9

 

Links to many more here: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/science#type2diabetes

 

And I wouldn't look to a medical school for nutrition research. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/
 

The lack of nutritional knowledge by doctors is part of the problem. When my cardiologist detected my atherosclerosis, he didn't ask me what I ate and had no advice on what I should be eating; apart from statins. Doctors are trained to cure, not to prevent.

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Loads of research to suggest weights are your best friend in a gym for overall health but so many people walk past them to get to the treadmill.

I had my gym regime designed by my cardio recovery team. Primarily, cardio (treadmill, rowing machine, cycle etc.). Important to monitor your pulse constantly. Eventually added core. Sit ups, crunches etc.

 

Was told no weights ever. Puts strain on your heart.

 

Note for @Nyezhov: Was given a booklet on discharge from hospital. In it was listed 3 activities that I must never do:

 

1. Can't remember.

 

2. Pushing cars.

 

3. Shovelling snow. Particularly bad as it involves exercise in temperature extremes.

 

All put tremendous strain on your heart. Might be best to avoid Alaska!

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, FracturedRabbit said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18175736

 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-789X.2012.01021.x

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27059106

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext

 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circulationaha.109.879254

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29522789

 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs13300-018-0373-9

 

Links to many more here: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/science#type2diabetes

 

And I wouldn't look to a medical school for nutrition research. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/
 

The lack of nutritional knowledge by doctors is part of the problem. When my cardiologist detected my atherosclerosis, he didn't ask me what I ate and had no advice on what I should be eating; apart from statins. Doctors are trained to cure, not to prevent.

Not so in the UK. I was assigned a dietician as part of my cardio recovery team. Specialised in nutrition for heart patients.

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, FracturedRabbit said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18175736

 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-789X.2012.01021.x

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27059106

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext

 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circulationaha.109.879254

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29522789

 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs13300-018-0373-9

 

Links to many more here: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/science#type2diabetes

 

And I wouldn't look to a medical school for nutrition research. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/
 

The lack of nutritional knowledge by doctors is part of the problem. When my cardiologist detected my atherosclerosis, he didn't ask me what I ate and had no advice on what I should be eating; apart from statins. Doctors are trained to cure, not to prevent.

Your obviously ignoring what we ask. We ask for proof that Keto is better then other diets. There has been a meta study comparing Keto and other diets and the result was that Keto did exactly the same for weight loss as the other diets. I am sorry that its not what you want to hear.

 

Nobody ever said that Keto does not work, I am disputing it works BETTER then other diets if people adhere to the diet (Keto wont work if you don't adhere to it neither will other diets)

 

You got intermittend fasting

You got keto

You got paleo

You got normal reduction while eating healthy (that is what I am on just means eating healthy foods and not too much no carb fear)

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I had my gym regime designed by my cardio recovery team. Primarily, cardio (treadmill, rowing machine, cycle etc.). Important to monitor your pulse constantly. Eventually added core. Sit ups, crunches etc.

 

Was told no weights ever. Puts strain on your heart.

 

Note for @Nyezhov: Was given a booklet on discharge from hospital. In it was listed 3 activities that I must never do:

 

1. Can't remember.

 

2. Pushing cars.

 

3. Shovelling snow. Particularly bad as it involves exercise in temperature extremes.

 

All put tremendous strain on your heart. Might be best to avoid Alaska!

science goes on

 

July 16, 2007 -- It's no longer a no-no. Moderate weight training offers big benefits to people with heart disease, the American Heart Association says.

In 2000, the AHA approved weight training for people with several kinds of heart disease. Now that cautious permission has become a ringing endorsement.

"Just as we once learned that people with heart disease benefited from aerobic exercise, we are now learning that guided, moderate weight training also has significant benefits," says Mark Williams, PhD, of Creighton University School of Medicine in Omaha, Neb.

Williams and colleagues rewrote the AHA's new weight training advice. Those recommendations appear in the July 31 issue of the AHA journal Circulation.

 

https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20070716/weight-training-for-heart-disease#1

[Spidey]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

science goes on

 

July 16, 2007 -- It's no longer a no-no. Moderate weight training offers big benefits to people with heart disease, the American Heart Association says.

In 2000, the AHA approved weight training for people with several kinds of heart disease. Now that cautious permission has become a ringing endorsement.

"Just as we once learned that people with heart disease benefited from aerobic exercise, we are now learning that guided, moderate weight training also has significant benefits," says Mark Williams, PhD, of Creighton University School of Medicine in Omaha, Neb.

Williams and colleagues rewrote the AHA's new weight training advice. Those recommendations appear in the July 31 issue of the AHA journal Circulation.

 

https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20070716/weight-training-for-heart-disease#1

I would go with the advice I received from a British heart expert. No weights. Received that advice in 2009.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2019 by Spidey

[tandor]

On 1/20/2019 at 4:04 PM, Nyezhov said:

I'm tired of jok anyway. I need fat and sugar. Help me.

..life is self serve...help yourself.

Edited January 22, 2019 by tandor

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I would go with the advice I received from a British heart expert. No weights. Received that advice in 2009.

 

 

Your body, not my choice, in the Netherlands they also have no problem with weight training. Us also not so seems to be getting traction. That being said I would go with whatever makes you feel best. 

 

I can't say that weight lifting is fun, though I prefer it over the cardio you described. I do have a rowing machine though.

[Nyezhov]

24 minutes ago, Spidey said:

3. Shovelling snow. Particularly bad as it involves exercise in temperature extremes.

Climate change. As Humans warm up the environment, it gets colder and snows more, and more old Polish guys in Buffalo and Chicago keel over with heart attacks while shoveling.

 

My idea of shoveling snow is a $10 bill to some 12 year old.

[Saltire]

On 1/20/2019 at 5:14 PM, NCC1701A said:

i have been eating like that for 30 years. and i have very few health problems. i eat no white refined sugar in any form. no pasta or bread or wheat. two glasses of red wine on Saturday nights. no beer.

 

stopped drinking soda in 1984.

 

breakfast is two eggs, salmon. spinach and one whole tomato. substitute broccoli, sweet potatoes. black coffee.

sometimes oats and oat bran with blueberries. Being bad is corn flakes and Almond milk and bananas. 

 

lunch is 1/2 roast chicken, salad, oil and vinegar, Japanese sweet potatoes. broccoli. vegetables lightly steamed or raw.  

 

Dinner is more chicken or fish. salad. broccoli. spinach, kale. vegetables lightly steamed or raw.  

desert is purple grapes.

 

no meds, no high blood pressure, look 10 years younger than I am, big boom boom.  

 

when I first came to Thailand I was 58 and they looked at me at immigration and said I was too young for a retirement visa. they were serious.

 

just saying this to anyone who will listen. it is never too late to change. not that hard. and you can eat all you want as long as you exercise everyday by walking or doing something to burn some calories.  

I haven't the time to read all 14 pages but this is the best advice so far.

 

Basically I eat low carb high fat and have done for 2 years. I am 20Kg lighter and have come off my statins and diabetes meds about a year ago. I never feel hungry or weak. Walking or some sort mild daily exercise is definitely a bonus. I don't think about calories I just minimise carbs. I do think about sugar every day and that is the hardest to kick, it's a real addiction in every sense of the word. Good luck. You may find these useful references

 

www.diabetes.co.uk and www.dietdoctor.com

 

[robblok]

36 minutes ago, Benroon said:

‘Can’t out train a bad diet’ - great saying

 

Its the early evening, sat by the pool - the cold beer siren is deafening! Really really difficult, never drink to oblivion but every day for sure.

 

Pathetic I know! 

Just a life choice, i don't comment on other people their habits. I only comment when they complain they can't lose weight or are overweight but still keep drinking.

 

Really I stopped judging people on what they do exercise or diet wise. Everyone should decide that for themselves. I was going real well.. then i fell of for a few months. Stress and sleeping problems were a killer. 

 

Now i got everything back on the row and I am busy to get back what i lost (muscle wise) and to lose what i got (fat wise). (not at the same time of course).

 

For me what works is eating less and healthy stuff. I admit I take protein and casein shakes as its a good way for me to get a lot of proteins while keeping calories down. 

Edited January 22, 2019 by robblok

[Nyezhov]

15 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I would go with the advice I received from a British heart expert. No weights. Received that advice in 2009.

 

 

As I read the current literature,  weight training and the type there of is a decision to be made by the individual patients cardiologist based on his evaluation of the patients circumstances.

[FracturedRabbit]

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your obviously ignoring what we ask. We ask for proof that Keto is better then other diets. There has been a meta study comparing Keto and other diets and the result was that Keto did exactly the same for weight loss as the other diets. I am sorry that its not what you want to hear.

 

Nobody ever said that Keto does not work, I am disputing it works BETTER then other diets if people adhere to the diet (Keto wont work if you don't adhere to it neither will other diets)

 

You got intermittend fasting

You got keto

You got paleo

You got normal reduction while eating healthy (that is what I am on just means eating healthy foods and not too much no carb fear)

"We" didn't ask. Nyezhov asked for research on keto, which I provided. 
It is extreme, and there are other approaches to nutrition which are also effective. You choose the route that you feel will work for you.

I discovered I had atherosclerosis 18 months ago. I did the research and decided that going keto, with other lifestyle changes (more exercise, intermittent fasting, plenty of sleep), was my best chance of beating it. I feel better than I have for years, but only a CAC scan later this year will evaluate whether I have succeeded in halting/reversing the spread of the disease.  

[robblok]

Just now, FracturedRabbit said:

"We" didn't ask. Nyezhov asked for research on keto, which I provided. 
It is extreme, and there are other approaches to nutrition which are also effective. You choose the route that you feel will work for you.

I discovered I had atherosclerosis 18 months ago. I did the research and decided that going keto, with other lifestyle changes (more exercise, intermittent fasting, plenty of sleep), was my best chance of beating it. I feel better than I have for years, but only a CAC scan later this year will evaluate whether I have succeeded in halting/reversing the spread of the disease.  

I fully agree with you, I never said Keto did not work. Just said its one of many diets that work.

 

They even lost weight on a Mc Donalds diet (not that it was good for the blood values) but it shows that reducing quantity works. 

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

As I read the current literature,  weight training and the type there of is a decision to be made by the individual patients cardiologist based on his evaluation of the patients circumstances.

If I had heart problems I certainly would ask and there is weight training and weight training... Such a difference between one workout an an other. I can certainly understand there are ways to workout that would tax your heart.

 

I am currently getting back into it and am doing some full body work with pairing exercises and it sends my hearth through the roof. (especially the squat- dumbbell shoulder press combination meaning first squat then DB press.. no rest between them.. then a bit of a rest).

 

But really weight training can be done in many different ways and intensity. 

[Nyezhov]

44 minutes ago, FracturedRabbit said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18175736

 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-789X.2012.01021.x

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27059106

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext

 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circulationaha.109.879254

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29522789

 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs13300-018-0373-9

 

Links to many more here: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/science#type2diabetes

 

And I wouldn't look to a medical school for nutrition research. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/
 

The lack of nutritional knowledge by doctors is part of the problem. When my cardiologist detected my atherosclerosis, he didn't ask me what I ate and had no advice on what I should be eating; apart from statins. Doctors are trained to cure, not to prevent.

I read your first article. It doesnt say what you purport it to say. Again, where is the proof that it is the Cure all as opposed to any other proper diet? Are you saying that the Keto diet is superior in long term heath in every case that to a healthy balanced diet? Or is it so wonderful that the Cardiologists of the world are suppressing it so they dont get put out of business? Are you saying that for a case like mine, the Keto diet would have reversed my blockage? Are you saying that if the entire world ate Keto, there would be no heart disease at all?

 

If I eat Keto can I smoke and be lazy?

 

[NoshowJones]

No reason why you should not enjoy eating certain foods, here is what I do, I exercise twice a day five days a week, doing cycling, walking, using the exercise machines in the local park, I am exactly 6 ft tall and weigh around 76 odd Ks.

When I go on road trips on my motorbike, I do not exercise at all, and am guilty of eating junk foods, which after  three or four days, I gain a little bit more than 1 Ks.

At home, I eat fish, chicken, pork, with potatoes or French Fries, always grilled, grain bread, do not eat fruit or veg unless I make myself soup where the veg is always liquidated. Every night around 7pm. I have a mug of tea, never use sugar, always artificial sweetner, and cake and biscuits. Drink one of these "all you need' drinks from 7-11. Drink full cream milk from time to time.

In a recent trip to the UK for three weeks, I ate a lot of junk food, huge portion of ice cream every day after dinner around 5pm. I stayed in a hotel for the whole three weeks in a room on the 6th floor, used the stairs about five or six times a day two at a time without stopping, only used the lift on the first and last day because I was carrying luggage.

Despite that, I gained about 3 Ks in these three weeks, but soon lost it when I got back home here in Thailand.

Have never smoked or drank alcohol at any time of my life.

[oldrunner]

I'm approaching 79 and just cannot lose the pounds, then I think, just how long do you want to live? I've had a good life and only a few regrets. Anxious to see what's on the other side.

[gturoff]

On 1/20/2019 at 4:01 PM, Nyezhov said:

Cardiologist said no keto. Balanced healthy diet. I feel like I'm withdrawing from drugs. the thought of stir fried Chinese broccoli and a piece of chicken breast for dinner tonight makes me want to fly off the balcony. maybe I'll go see if the fruit guy is outside and I'll gorge myself on papaya.

Find another Cardiologist. The Atkins diet and ketogenic diets have been extensively studied and found to be very effective in losing weight, lowering cholestoral, controlling blood sugar. Only certain fruits can be eaten, such as strawberries, bluberries, rasberries, which have very low sugar content. No bread, rice (brown or otherwise), sugar, honey, or any sweetners which end in -ose, fructose, glucose etc. No starchy veggies like potatoes, corn, etc., Brocolli, green beans, spinach, califlour, eat all you want. A little cheese sauce is quit good. Eggs are good, bacon, sausage, steak, pork, chicken, salmon, any fish, shrimp, crab. You shouldn’t be hungry with all those choices.

[NoshowJones]

On 1/20/2019 at 6:39 PM, scubascuba3 said:

On 1/20/2019 at 4:10 PM, Snow Leopard said:

Yes, beer as well. A 6K walk helps as well. I am doing the same from next week. I need to lose some

A 6k walk will be about 300 calories +-50, although good for you it won't have much an impact on weight loss. You have to do lots of exercise (i burned 2000 calories cycling today) or eat a lot less

How can you tell how many calories you burn while cycling? I estimate I cycle about 8 Ks a day, from my house to the exercise park, all on flat ground, there are no hills anywhere near me. So how many cals will I burn? Would I be right in saying about 200?

[meerhof]

Most peoples bodies are trained to getting unlimited quantities of food and their bodies start moaning if they don t get enough. Just try intermittent fasting skip simple sugars en exchange them for narural sweetness and forget everything else. Your body will take care of getting rid of surplusses. I eat everything to my liking in rather large portions but never eat anything between 8pm and 12am leaving me time enough to indulge in loads of nice things.  I am 72 and slender since I do this for a few years now. Before I started I was getting fatter and fatter.

But also ....... switch from beer to sodawater after 8pm.

 

Just google for intermittent fasting.

 

[tropo]

On 1/20/2019 at 3:54 PM, Snow Leopard said:

No Carbs. No Sugar. Go have a steak. 

When I eat steak with no carbs, I'm hungry again not long after - even a big steak. I'll end up eating more when I head straight for carbs later on. Now a steak with some peas and potatoes - that's a proper meal LOL.

Edited January 22, 2019 by tropo