Thai immigration to show leniency to foreigners applying for retirement & marriage extensions

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Yes of course you need to spend it to be able live on it. I was answering the question, which has come up before regarding continually sending the same funds in and out.

That would obviously look suspicious. It doesn't appear to be against the technical rules, but like anything, immigration officers are police, and police have the right to ask questions when they're suspicious. 

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I think the only people who end up with a large unpaid bill, are the uninsured who get immediate treatment for injuries or something like a heart-attack - treatment to keep them alive at that moment. 

I can imagine you can add those whose insurance turns them down, has exclusions, or is simply insufficient. The policy I have I believe only allows for 15 days in ICU at 15,000 baht/day. If it is 30,000 / day cost the deficit might put someone on a do-a-runner flight!

[BertM]

1 hour ago, DavisH said:

Wouldnt one just transfer money out and then back in again? Yes, you get slogged on the exchange rate and fees, but aren't they only asking the monthly deposits to be shown? I'm sure this has been mentioned. I'm not on this visa so it doesn't affect me personally. Just interested. 

Interesting thought DavisH... If someone had say about 100k THB in savings, they could withdraw it, somehow convert/send it back out, then send it back in again and maybe that could work. The person could continue using whatever other money they normally use to live on. I'm sure someone could withdraw the 100k a little at a time and make it look like it is being spent when really it isn't. It would certainly dwindle down with the fees. Probably too cost prohibitive to do and probably cheaper to get help from an agent if the agents do that type of thing. Has anyone figured out how much a roundtrip out and back in would cost per month say on 100k THB? just interested if that would work, not that I need it, but someone may need. With kind regards...

Edited January 25, 2019 by BertM

[stephenterry]

On 1/23/2019 at 2:37 PM, jesimps said:

Yes but one of my last three transfers using TW was sent via TMB. Surely if I was with BB this would show up as a domestic transfer.

Yes it would. You need to transfer from overseas.

[stephenterry]

2 hours ago, BertM said:

Interesting thought DavisH... If someone had say about 100k THB in savings, they could withdraw it, somehow convert/send it back out, then send it back in again and maybe that could work. The person could continue using whatever other money they normally use to live on. I'm sure someone could withdraw the 100k a little at a time and make it look like it is being spent when really it isn't. It would certainly dwindle down with the fees. Probably too cost prohibitive to do and probably cheaper to get help from an agent if the agents do that type of thing. Has anyone figured out how much a roundtrip out and back in would cost per month say on 100k THB? just interested if that would work, not that I need it, but someone may need. With kind regards...

Yes, by using TransferWise, you could send your 65+k back to overseas bank account and transfer it back to Thailand using Bangkok bank. However, if you have 65K income, what's the point?

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, BertM said:

Interesting thought DavisH... If someone had say about 100k THB in savings, they could withdraw it, somehow convert/send it back out, then send it back in again and maybe that could work. The person could continue using whatever other money they normally use to live on. I'm sure someone could withdraw the 100k a little at a time and make it look like it is being spent when really it isn't. It would certainly dwindle down with the fees. Probably too cost prohibitive to do and probably cheaper to get help from an agent if the agents do that type of thing. Has anyone figured out how much a roundtrip out and back in would cost per month say on 100k THB? just interested if that would work, not that I need it, but someone may need. With kind regards...

This was discussed a lot when this "show the transfers" bit first came up.  Pulling it out a bit at a time to put in another acct, and sending-back from there, etc.  It is far less risky to the faker than a felony to lie in one's passport-country on a Stat-Dec. 

 

Someone ran the numbers, and found one could save 10K or so vs an agent in a year, but for most fakers, I think the effort would would be more trouble than it's worth.  Consider that an IO can ask for backup-docs also, so more trouble faking those.  With the agent's brown-envelope, there is no scrutiny at all - though it still has its own inherent risks.

 

55 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Yes, by using TransferWise, you could send your 65+k back to overseas bank account

I think TW only goes in this direction, so would have to use Dee-Money, a crypto-coin exchange, or some other option sending back.

 

55 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

However, if you have 65K income, what's the point?

A legitimate use, would be sending back a part of one's total income - which exceeds the necessary minimum required for one's extension - to cover passport-country expenses. 

 

Sending money there, to send it right back, would be faking non-existent income.

Edited January 25, 2019 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I can imagine you can add those whose insurance turns them down, has exclusions, or is simply insufficient. The policy I have I believe only allows for 15 days in ICU at 15,000 baht/day. If it is 30,000 / day cost the deficit might put someone on a do-a-runner flight!

Better stick to govt-hospitals.  They aren't bad here - my wife got far better care for something here, than a person with good-insurance in the USA would receive.

[lamyai3]

9 hours ago, MickeyR said:

Do they realize that because of the devaluation of the pound to the baht, 19,000 baht per month Uk Government pension wont meet the said requirements.

It's a bit more than 19000, but state pension amounts to less than one third of the requirements currently, assuming the pound doesn't slide further. For long term retirees who have been in country for years it'll be lower still, as they will have had their pension at a static level without any annual increases. 

[lamyai3]

9 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Yes, that is why the Thai embassy, London has increased the financial requirements slightly now requiring £1500 per month from £1400 per month. Not a lot really considering the plus 20% devaluation of sterling too the baht over the last 2 years.

This might be that their website isn't properly updated. When you apply for a non O/A there you've got to show the equivalent of the 800k at current rates, despite their website sometimes citing a lower amount as an indicator. 

[lamyai3]

9 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Nobody can say with any certainty how Immigration will view that at your next extension when they look at your bank book and see the money going in a continual loop.

This may or may not fly, but it'd be inadvisable to just send it back from the same account. There's zero they can do about someone withdrawing say 20k and sending it back using dee money or something though, and why would they be bothered? I'd think it'd be a prohibitively expensive monthly rigmarole though with transfer fees both ways and the buy-sell rate differential. 

[SPREX]

Hello ! 

Please,  read that 

As you know and read it immigration changes the rules for the financial justifications of the visa renewals in clause 2.18 and 2.22 each interpreter as he wants the Order Command personally I do not use the consulate certificate since I have the 800,000 at the end of my account

But as I like to do complicated I told myself that I will apply my new model of bank deposit in case it would be necessary to do it during my next renewal (October 2020) that the officer will formally notify me for the next extension (Oct 2021) I will have to prove that I paid well 12 times my 65 000 Bth and coming from abroad or more during the year (Financial Flow) and as I do not want to stuff me all the month an international transfer at an uncertain rate and a commission so I decided to open a save account in THB to my bank or I can install a transfer automatic monthly transfer to my current account that I present to immigration to each extension
The bank will provide without hesitation the certification that this money comes from abroad and that there have been 12 payments of origin clear and clear without any discussion parant to any form of situation in prevention

HANG YOUR WELL AND READ CAREFULLY WHAT I COME TO LIVE AT THE BANK (KASIKORN) THIS MORNING DURATION OF OPERATION 1H20

I arrive at the bank and my wife explains that I want to open another current account in THB in addition to my existing 4 and I show my model (see the map)

Answer no worries Mr Bernard !!!

I give as my request my passport with my visa withdrawal my Tabien Ban and my card ID 13 digit
'' And he asks me the title of Pension since I ticked on the opening sheet the box RETIRED and asking for the monthly amount in THB ....... Oup!

I call him and tell him what is this new salad .... I opened all my accounts before without this document why so you ask me to produce a pension title that was never provided in the regulation my visa OA proves that I am retired !!!!

Answer '' Sorry Mr Bernard .... new rule !!!!!

We received in October 2018 instruction to ask this document I am really sorry ...
I answer him that I do not have on me this title but that I can go and get it
No ! No, Mr BERNARD! I call the BKK center and if I can proceed with the verification Oops!

I immediately asked where he was phoning to know if I had a title or not an answer ...
After 5 'of communication he hangs up and tells me it's Ok Mr BERNARD we open .. !!! .

So the account was opened a bookbank and a debit card

SO NO THERE IS NO CHANGE ????????????

It was very easy to open a bank account in Thailand no problem but especially did not come to the Kasikorn !!!
And obviously I wonder if the other banks have received the same instructions (very likely ...)

For disputes or obstruction thank you for calling your bank useless to discuss me I'm reporting what I just did not live anymore and I guess you will not have missed the relationship that exists in the amendment of the order of Police immigration on the banking certification which specifies the conditions to make more clear it is in the end the bank which certifies the income in its origin and in its deposit of your money on the annual flow

 

Please check alternative solution to avoid to many international tranfer money 

the model is valid for hold solution or new requiremment montly 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gzktctpt5ckzd8n/income pension proposal solution to avoid multi transfer and montly deposit.JPG?dl=0

 

[fusion58]

On 1/22/2019 at 2:51 PM, webfact said:

Where this is the case, the Pol Lt. Gen Hakpal has instructed immigration officers that from 1 Jan to 31 Dec 2019 they have discretion to accept evidence of less than 12 monthly transfers from overseas.

“Less than 12?” So “pick a number between 1 and 11?”

 

I appreciate the “leniency,” but how much leniency are we talking about?

 

I have no embassy letter, no Thai bank account and a retirement extension which expires at the end of next month.

 

I have a Thailand Elite Visa application pending, but it’s been more than three weeks, and I’ve yet to receive an approval notice. I was advised initially that the wait time for immigration approval was two weeks...then that time frame was amended to one month. (Trying not to break a sweat here...)

 

Ironically, I have been transferring considerably more than the required 65K to my wife’s Bangkok Bank account from my U.S. bank every month for the past four years.

 

If only TI would accept these international transfers as evidence of my good credit. But that would be too easy, no?

[lamyai3]

22 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

“Less than 12?” So “pick a number between 1 and 11?”

 

I appreciate the “leniency,” but how much leniency are we talking about?

 

I have no embassy letter, no Thai bank account and a retirement extension which expires at the end of next month.

 

I have a Thailand Elite Visa application pending, but it’s been more than three weeks, and I’ve yet to receive an approval notice. I was advised initially that the wait time for immigration approval was two weeks...then that time frame was amended to one month. (Trying not to break a sweat here...)

 

Ironically, I have been transferring considerably more than the required 65K to my wife’s Bangkok Bank account from my U.S. bank every month for the past four years.

 

If only TI would accept these international transfers as evidence of my good credit. But that would be too easy, no?

Married to a Thai, and on a retirement extension to boot - why on earth would you throw your money away on an Elite visa? 

[jacko45k]

15 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Married to a Thai, and on a retirement extension to boot - why on earth would you throw your money away on an Elite visa? 

Because he doesn't have a Thai bank account!

[fusion58]

16 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Married to a Thai, and on a retirement extension to boot - why on earth would you throw your money away on an Elite visa? 

With no embassy letter, no Thai bank account and a retirement extension which expires in one month, my options would appear limited, no? 

 

(Hence my original question “how ‘lenient’ are we talking about?”)

 

All things considered, five years with zero contact with TI is starting to seem more than worth the 500K price of admission.

[fusion58]

7 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Because he doesn't have a Thai bank account!

Ding ding ding! Winner!

 

Furthermore, I’d prefer to avoid having one if at all possible.

[lamyai3]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Because he doesn't have a Thai bank account!

It'd take him five minutes to get one with these credentials. Bangkok Bank will provide one with an embassy letter of residence, which costs less than 0.5% of the cost of the Elite visa. 

[lamyai3]

3 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

With no embassy letter, no Thai bank account and a retirement extension which expires in one month, my options would appear limited, no? 

So it would appear. But it begs the question, how have you been getting your extensions the past three years? 

[fusion58]

1 minute ago, lamyai3 said:

It'd take him five minutes to get one with these credentials. Bangkok Bank will provide one with an embassy letter of residence, which costs less than 0.5% of the cost of the Elite visa. 

Um, did I mention that my current retirement extension expires next month?

[fusion58]

1 minute ago, lamyai3 said:

So it would appear. But it begs the question, how have you been getting your extensions the past three years? 

With these things called “income affidavits” from the U.S. Embassy.

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

Um, did I mention that my current retirement extension expires next month?

Get that local bank account sorted, it appears to be an obligation now. Perhaps then a border run, Visa Waiver, conversion to a Non-Imm Entry and extension again, or a Non _Imm O in a nearby country.  Or is it to be the Elite?

[lamyai3]

4 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

With these things called “income affidavits” from the U.S. Embassy.

You didn't say so earlier, and since you seem to be opting for a combative line in forum debate, I'd say you're knackered. Unless you can find an agent. 

[fusion58]

2 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

You didn't say so earlier, and since you seem to be opting for a combative line in forum debate, I'd say you're knackered. Unless you can find an agent. 

 

I assumed that I was using income affadavits went without saying inasmuch as this fact could be deduced from my initial statement about not having a Thai bank account.

 

 

[fusion58]

12 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Get that local bank account sorted, it appears to be an obligation now. Perhaps then a border run, Visa Waiver, conversion to a Non-Imm Entry and extension again, or a Non _Imm O in a nearby country.  Or is it to be the Elite?

Elite seems to be the way to go.

 

I’m prepared to reach for the credit card as soon as that immigration approval notice arrives. Should be any day now (knock on wood.)

[lamyai3]

1 minute ago, fusion58 said:

I assumed that I was using income affadavits went without saying inasmuch as this fact could be deduced from my initial statement about not having a Thai bank account.

Don't forget the old axiom about assuming stuff. The US isn't the only game in town, UK income letters have also been scrapped recently, these were on the basis of submitted proof, not sworn affidavits. 

[fusion58]

6 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Don't forget the old axiom about assuming stuff. The US isn't the only game in town, UK income letters have also been scrapped recently, these were on the basis of submitted proof, not sworn affidavits. 

Either way, it follows from the fact that I have no Thai bank account that I must have been using embassy letters for income verification (which was the point of my last post.)

[JLCrab]

13 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

it follows from the fact that I have no Thai bank account that I must have been using embassy letters for income verification

The US Embassy - Bangkok announced on OCT26 2018 that the last income verification letters would be issued DEC31 2018.

 

Where were you?

[fusion58]

8 hours ago, JLCrab said:

The US Embassy - Bangkok announced on OCT26 2018 that the last income verification letters would be issued DEC31 2018.

 

Where were you?

In America.

 

 

 

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, fusion58 said:

9 hours ago, JLCrab said:

The US Embassy - Bangkok announced on OCT26 2018 that the last income verification letters would be issued DEC31 2018.

 

Where were you?

In America.

Expensive trip.

[Mark mark]

On 1/23/2019 at 3:58 PM, Petchou said:

Very good news.  At least it allows to avoid Thai Banks to get Chunk of our money charging fees and giving very bad exchange rates.   Thanks for your reply.

The Thai Banks are the Cheapest Banks in the world from my Experience, and I have never had ANY trouble with them, Try learning a bit of Thai to Impress / Snow them, ... Use one of the Bigger better ones, like BBL is about the only one I think ? I must admit, Thai Farmers (KrisaKon Bank is it) has been yes, a bit Dodgey, from my experience, .... But BBL. .... a Cheap and Great Bank. With the best rates that I can get with a reliable bank, as far as I am aware.

 

When I was working off shore, I was Blindly using HBC in Singapore, I had so much money coming in, that I was not noticing their corruption !!!!  ... But when I finished and actually had a look at what they were doing !!!    Varrrr !!! ..... I closed all my Business off with HSBC in Singapore as they were trying to charge me $30 a month as Foreign Client fee, like using money laundering as an excuse ... Double dipping with Currency changes, like forcing a transfer in to Singapore Dollars and then another back in to the currency you wanted like putting it up to something like 4% + .... Like my Thai bank only charges ne ? 2 0r 3% I think, and even for Visa and Master card, which always are more expensive to use !!! ... And they straight conversions are just fine !!! and way WAY under 2% I think.  ... and well Mistakes +++ HSB !!! !!! ... (F' then to really be quite Honest) 

 

The Singaporeans reckon that they speak English, but well, I can tell you !!! They still have a Real long way to go on Numbers !!! (Well their Pronunciation, and also understanding) .... So I closed all my Accounts with them, including the hard to get credit cards, and opened them all back up with BBL (I told them I was closing all my accounts with HSBC, and moving my Business to them, and they gave me, attention, and a much better Deal) ....  and it was the best thing that I did in my Banking for Years !!!

 

I had thought HSBC was a Chinese bank, but alas, NO, ... it is British, ...  and like all other British banks that I have had any thing to do with, sweat talkers, but corrupt, and VERY Incompetent underneath. ... and so far ? ... Well getting on to 30 years now, BBL has not been like that, ... and it is way WAY cheaper than HSBC, and similar also ! ....

 

I do use UOB now in Singapore, and be warned Fellows, with the new Crack down on Potential Money laundering, and tax evasion, my broker there HAS told me not to let my accounts there go, as he says I possibly will never be able to get them back, if I do !!! .... And that it will come to Thailand also sooner or later also. - He used to be a banker, and is old, so he has a great over view, ...and he knows.  

 

So If I was you fellows I would set up my Thai banking with BBL or similar, NOW, before the rules change, ... and you can not.

 

Yes I use UOB in Singapore now, (As I have to have a savings account there for the Stock Dividends) .... like I finally found a Real Singaporean / Chinese bank, and they are a lot better than HSBC by miles, ... though well, Singlish, ... you still have to watch them with their figures over the phone !!!