The Old Question: Toyota Fortuner Vs Isuzu Mu7 (diesels)

[Sing_Sling]

I know there's a long-running thread going on already but my question is more specifically geared towards the diesel versions - seeing as our business is bio-diesel.

Aesthetics are unimportant, my favourite dogs are bulldogs, so looks don't count.

So . . . Fortuner vs MU7

Cheers

[LoveDaBlues]

I'm happy with my Fortuner diesel. Isuzu's in general have always felt a little 'tinny' to me. Just don't have a solid feeling.

[CM-Joe]

I had many diesel cars in my life. But the 3 l diesel motor from the fortuner is just great. I can realy recommend it.

[Mobi]

My Fortuner diesel brought the fun back into driving for me.

It is a superb vehicle and absolutely ideal for Thailand's roads

I don't know of asingle Fortuner owner who has anything bad to say about it them - and all the the independant road testers say that in it's class, it can't be beaten.

A great vehicle, a great smooth ride, goes like stink and is as quiet as a mouse. I've done over 30k's in less than six months and haven't had a single problem, and the Toyota Services places are excellent.

My only complaint is that there are too many of them around....

But don't take the word of a stranger on the internet - road test one for yourself - if you can find one.

[MichaelSong]

Do you have a Thai wife or g/f ? If so dont forget to ask her opinion !

Mine says the Isuzu is a farmer truck , once I came home with an Isuzu for a test drive, and she would not even give it a glance !

Michael

[moonoi]

Guess I'm the lone voice of a MU7 owner again

I prefer it to the Fortuner, found it has more room inside and is more comfortable (for me) and I also prefer the looks. I have the pre-facelift model, and have no problem with the engine, pulls strongly and it seems that I can always beat those Fortuner drivers away from the lights My gfs' dad has the new generation MU7 with the VGS Turbo diesel engine. This is a significant improvement, while mine isn't noisy, his is almost quiet, it also has more power and torque too, although it comes in a little higher up the rev range than mine (mine pulls strong from 1300 rpm, his has to wind up to about 1600).

Have to admit the other reason I like my MU7 is that every man and his dog doesn't own one! I've also yet to meet a Fortuner owner that doesn't drive like he/she owns the road.....although at least there not as bad as Camry drivers

And no its not a farmers truck....thats the DMAX...thats like calling a the Fortuner a Vigo.

Isuzu tend to market themselves with the MU7 as a family car. Toyota markets the Fortuner as a car to be proud to be seen in and goes anywhere. They're aimed at differant segments of the same market.

Oh before I forget I did test drive both before buying Can't say I thought the Fortuner was superior in any area (and yes I know the rear suspension is differant)

Edited February 23, 2007 by moonoi

[MichaelSong]

And no its not a farmers truck....thats the DMAX...thats like calling a the Fortuner a Vigo.

That is women logic: the DMAX is a farmer truck, the DMAX is an Isuzu...all Isuzu's are farmer trucks !

[undercover]

The fortuner is excellent, at last somebody has fitted coil springs all round.

The drawbacks I see is every man and his dog has got one, and that reputation they have of being driven by moron's.

Years ago the poor old Ford Capri had the same reputation, they called them a wally's car, black and white dice qube hanging from the mirror, Every time you looked in your rear view mirror sure enougth there was some wally in his Capri right up your ass, 30 odd years later it's a fortuner.

[Gary A]

Do you have a Thai wife or g/f ? If so dont forget to ask her opinion !

Mine says the Isuzu is a farmer truck , once I came home with an Isuzu for a test drive, and she would not even give it a glance !

Michael

I guess that makes my Thai wife a farmer? Since our last Toyota was such a poor experience, she has suggested that when we trade again, we go for the Isuzu 4X4. We have a new Ford Focus and a 2004 Nissan king cab. I'd like to have another 4X4 so the wife says the next one should be Isuzu. I love my Nissan and it my well be the best vehicle I have ever owned. Since it IS up to me I'll probably buy a new Ford 4X4.

[HDRIDER]

Fortuner looks better than MU7 thats why i bought it, did not even try the MU7, what if i have tried it and found it better than the Fortuner????. mine is 200hp.

[taxexile]

brother in law has the isuzu , had it for 3 years.

has had to have 2 gearbox replacements ( they dont replace with new g'boxes , but use reconditioned/repaired ones) , in the garage for 3 weeks each time , and the rear suspension has had to be replaced.

[Mobi]

Do you have a Thai wife or g/f ? If so dont forget to ask her opinion !

Mine says the Isuzu is a farmer truck , once I came home with an Isuzu for a test drive, and she would not even give it a glance !

Michael

I guess that makes my Thai wife a farmer? Since our last Toyota was such a poor experience, she has suggested that when we trade again, we go for the Isuzu 4X4. We have a new Ford Focus and a 2004 Nissan king cab. I'd like to have another 4X4 so the wife says the next one should be Isuzu. I love my Nissan and it my well be the best vehicle I have ever owned. Since it IS up to me I'll probably buy a new Ford 4X4.

Well I really don't know that much about motor vehicles, but I have driven a huge number of of them in varying road conditions throughout the world for over 40 years.

If you are talking about a Ford Escape - I had one for 3 years, and believe you me, the Fortuner - for the same price or less, is in a different class. I was quite happy with the Escape (3 litre petrol), but the 'tuner is superior in every regard, except, maybe the ride is slightly harder - but nothing I would really notice.

A friend of mine has a 10 million Baht imported Range Rover, and he was embarrassed treying to keep up with me as I whisked past slow moving vehicles on a single track road.

[Sing_Sling]

Why have you limited your choice to these two very average SUVs?

Oh, and go test drive both yourself before making a decision. You'd have to be extremely foolish (or trusting!) to buy a car based on an anonymous recommendation on a website forum!

I guess the reason I chose to look at these two diesels is that they are about all I know in this category - any others I should be aware of? And it has to be a diesel - I'll be using a 50/50 bio-fuel/petro-diesel mix most of the time, even as a commonrail. My company has several flatbeds but I need a family car when we move over that can double as a work-horse.

Of course I wouldn't base my decsion solely on members input, but owner's opinion does give a good indication of reliability and general satisfaction, added to which I can't seem to find any 'professional' comparative analysis.

Do you have a Thai wife or g/f ? If so dont forget to ask her opinion !

No girlfriend and nope, my wife isn't Thai and will be getting a Honda or Mazda something-or-other, as long as it is red . . .

Thanks so far for the responses, seems like a lot of people own Fortuners and are happy witht M7 owners split on the qualitative aspects . . . does that sound about right?

[Mobi]

A friend of mine has a 10 million Baht imported Range Rover, and he was embarrassed treying to keep up with me as I whisked past slow moving vehicles on a single track road.

Yet more dillusion from a Fortuner owner!

A new Range Rover is a superior vehicle in every regard. A true offroad 4x4 but a luxury automobile as well. The Fortuner is an SUV.

Different class, and like comparing apples with oranges.

Did I in any way try to claim that the Fortuner is superior to the Range Rover?

Of course I didn't. How can you compare the two?

I simply stated a fact - the guy was surprised and a bit embarrassed at my turn of speed, and in subsequent conversation, there was no doubt that he was wondering whether he wouldn't have been better off saving himself around 9 million Baht, especially as its been in the shop more than its been on the road.

I know which one I'd rather have - got better things to do with 10 million Baht thanks, and I reiterate that you can't get better value for money than a Fortuner. My extended family love it - and so does my dog

[Sing_Sling]

Emperor-Tud mentioned alternatives . .. I haven't found any in this price bracket . . . Anyone?

[ThaiPauly]

What on earth is a "Commonrail"...what a stupid name!

[Sing_Sling]

What on earth is a "Commonrail"...what a stupid name!

Well, ThaiPauly, it's quite simple really:

The Common Rail system in particular gives engine developers the freedom they need to reduce exhaust emissions even further, and especially to lower engine noise. The particular design of Common Rail, with its flexible division of injection into several pre-, main and post-injections, allows the engine and the injection system to be matched to each other in the best possible way. In the Common Rail accumulator injection system, the generation of the injection pressure is separate from the injection itself. A high-pressure pump generates in an accumulator – the rail – a pressure of up to 1,600 bar (determined by the injection pressure setting in the engine control unit), independently of the engine speed and the quantity of fuel injected. The fuel is fed through rigid pipes to the injectors, which inject the correct amount of fuel in a fine spray into the combustion chambers. The Electronic Diesel Control (EDC) controls extremely precisely all the injection parameters – such as the pressure in the Rail and the timing and duration of injection – as well as performing other engine functions.

To wit:

and to further explain and enlighten you:

Sorry . . . Basically it is a new type of fuel injection system.

[Sing_Sling]

Oh, I should add that my last post was cut and pasted . . . I don't quite understand the common rail stuff either to such a degree.

Anyone else?

[ThaiPauly]

WOW...thats way to technical for me...but thanks for the explanation Sing Sling

[Sing_Sling]

Sorry, ThaiPauly . . . having a bit of a laugh - I did a cut and paste job on the explanatory text. I guess what it basically means is that the engine is more refined and uses a more sophisticated fuel injection system.

[PETERTHEEATER]

What on earth is a "Commonrail"...what a stupid name!

Well, ThaiPauly, it's quite simple really:

The Common Rail system in particular gives engine developers the freedom they need to reduce exhaust emissions even further, and especially to lower engine noise. The particular design of Common Rail, with its flexible division of injection into several pre-, main and post-injections, allows the engine and the injection system to be matched to each other in the best possible way. In the Common Rail accumulator injection system, the generation of the injection pressure is separate from the injection itself. A high-pressure pump generates in an accumulator – the rail – a pressure of up to 1,600 bar (determined by the injection pressure setting in the engine control unit), independently of the engine speed and the quantity of fuel injected. The fuel is fed through rigid pipes to the injectors, which inject the correct amount of fuel in a fine spray into the combustion chambers. The Electronic Diesel Control (EDC) controls extremely precisely all the injection parameters – such as the pressure in the Rail and the timing and duration of injection – as well as performing other engine functions.

To wit:

and to further explain and enlighten you:

:lol: Sorry . . . Basically it is a new type of fuel injection system.

And I thought the fuel system now known as 'commonrail' was invented by a Frenchman in the 1930s.

[PETERTHEEATER]

What on earth is a "Commonrail"...what a stupid name!

Well, ThaiPauly, it's quite simple really:

The Common Rail system in particular gives engine developers the freedom they need to reduce exhaust emissions even further, and especially to lower engine noise. The particular design of Common Rail, with its flexible division of injection into several pre-, main and post-injections, allows the engine and the injection system to be matched to each other in the best possible way. In the Common Rail accumulator injection system, the generation of the injection pressure is separate from the injection itself. A high-pressure pump generates in an accumulator – the rail – a pressure of up to 1,600 bar (determined by the injection pressure setting in the engine control unit), independently of the engine speed and the quantity of fuel injected. The fuel is fed through rigid pipes to the injectors, which inject the correct amount of fuel in a fine spray into the combustion chambers. The Electronic Diesel Control (EDC) controls extremely precisely all the injection parameters – such as the pressure in the Rail and the timing and duration of injection – as well as performing other engine functions.

To wit:

and to further explain and enlighten you:

:lol: Sorry . . . Basically it is a new type of fuel injection system.

And I thought the fuel system now known as 'commonrail' was invented by a Frenchman in the 1930s.

No, I was wrong (I shall go to bed without supper as a penance). Wilkepedia says 'The common rail system prototype was developed in the late 1960s by Robert Huber of Switzerland'

But I bet he spoke French!

[moonoi]

What on earth is a "Commonrail"...what a stupid name!

Well, ThaiPauly, it's quite simple really:

The Common Rail system in particular gives engine developers the freedom they need to reduce exhaust emissions even further, and especially to lower engine noise. The particular design of Common Rail, with its flexible division of injection into several pre-, main and post-injections, allows the engine and the injection system to be matched to each other in the best possible way. In the Common Rail accumulator injection system, the generation of the injection pressure is separate from the injection itself. A high-pressure pump generates in an accumulator – the rail – a pressure of up to 1,600 bar (determined by the injection pressure setting in the engine control unit), independently of the engine speed and the quantity of fuel injected. The fuel is fed through rigid pipes to the injectors, which inject the correct amount of fuel in a fine spray into the combustion chambers. The Electronic Diesel Control (EDC) controls extremely precisely all the injection parameters – such as the pressure in the Rail and the timing and duration of injection – as well as performing other engine functions.

To wit:

and to further explain and enlighten you:

:lol: Sorry . . . Basically it is a new type of fuel injection system.

And I thought the fuel system now known as 'commonrail' was invented by a Frenchman in the 1930s.

No, I was wrong (I shall go to bed without supper as a penance). Wilkepedia says 'The common rail system prototype was developed in the late 1960s by Robert Huber of Switzerland'

But I bet he spoke French!

Heres your problem quoting wikipedia which isn't known for its accuracy it might be correct, it might not be....I'd look for another source to coroborate!

For instance DaimlerChrysler claim to have invented Commonrail Direct Injection in 1997

Extract from link:

A true paradigm shift finally happened in 1997, when a collaboration by Bosch and DaimlerChrysler resulted in the concept of direct injection via a shared fuel line kept under constant high pressure, the common rail. It made Rudolf Diesel’s engine fit at last for the 21st century. The Jeep Liberty CRD and the E 320 CDI operate according to the common-rail principle, which has since been further improved.

[Sing_Sling]

I believe it was Daimler as well, together with Bosch . . . as for Robert Huber speaking French . . . probably did as all Swiss, bar the Franco-Swiss, speak more thna one of their national languages. . . even the Tiroler!

So, any more views from owners or is it really a given for the Fortuner?

Price seems right

Value for money?

Availability?

Service back-up?

Build quality?

etc . . .

[Digger]

A slight aside but I was in Asia Books or somewhere the other day and bought a copy of What car magazine from the UK as they had on the cover a road test for the new Land Rover Freelander. fast forward a bit and I actually spent more time reading about the Nissan X-Trail than the other 3 in the same test (Toyota Rav 4, Hyundai something and the Freelander). The surprise to me was how highly What Car rated the Nissan. By all accounts they consider it an excellent vehicle. FYI, they did not include the Ford Escape in that road test but in their overall review, it seems to warrant 1 of out 5.

Maybe its worth having a look at the Nissan X Trail as well which costs about 1.2m in Thailand and has a 2.5l petrol engine. Considering the new Land Rover is expected to be over 3,000,000 baht - seems like a relative bargain even if it is a bit long in the tooth, but for sure What Car rated it very highly.

[moonoi]

I believe it was Daimler as well, together with Bosch . . . as for Robert Huber speaking French . . . probably did as all Swiss, bar the Franco-Swiss, speak more thna one of their national languages. . . even the Tiroler!

So, any more views from owners or is it really a given for the Fortuner?

Price seems right

Value for money?

Availability?

Service back-up?

Build quality?

etc . . .

To be honest I think you'll find whichever one you choose they both stack up fairly equally.

At the end of the day only you can decide, jump in both of them. Take them for a spin see which one you like. I ended up with the MU7, I felt it was a better ride, preferred the looks and I got a good discount and tons of accessories thrown in.

Just remember there are thousands of Fortuner owners out there, so your more likely to get feedback from them than us minority MU7 owners. So obviously the opinions here are going to be very much in favour of the Fortuner.....also bear in mind the vast majority of these people have never driven the MU7.

So do yourself a favour, pop down to your local toyota and isuzu dealers...have a drive around in them both....and choose the one that you like and best suits your needs

[Sing_Sling]

Thanks for that, digger . . . but I really want a diesel as one of our businesses is producing bio-diesel.

Moonoi, yes, that's pretty much what I had planned to do, and see if there are any diesel alternatives I had potentially missed.

How easy is it to haggle on price and get freebies (bullbar, foggies, leather seats etc . . .) and is there enough competition to warrant this?

[moonoi]

For haggling on price, its not that easy, you may get a few k discount. Normally you negotiate on what extras you get without any cost. Like free first class insurance, chrome upgrades, better audio system/tv fitted.

In my experience when I was looking at both the same SUVs' as you I found Isuzu prepared to offer more than Toyota (100k of accessories vs 30k from Toyota)......probably because Fortuner is in higher demand so they don't have to offer as much to sell it.

Edited February 27, 2007 by moonoi

[Sing_Sling]

Thank you, that's good information. I guess also, if you don't try you won't get.

Must admit I like the slightly quirky looks on the MU7 . . . as I said, my favourite dog is the bulldog . . . and I'm not even a Brit.

Any difference in resale, as in higher depreciation?

[moonoi]

Myself I don't really care about depreciation....if I did I would never buy a car!!!!

I just buy what I like

I think though that depreciate is slightly higher on the MU7 than Fortuner, but not much in it. I've seen 2 year old MU7s' advertised for 80% of there value new at the tents, not sure what they really sell for but I guess they probably will drop upto another 10% off that in negotiation.

But strange really, I wouldn't bother buying a second hand car here as they normally sell for almost the same price as new! Strange market here in Thailand for used cars