Condo AGM

[JimboJ]

The gang running my condo at the moment held the annual general meeting in the depths of the low season when no one was here.  It was also three months later than the time limit after the end of the accounting period, which is the end of the year.  Also, they did not send out written notification, as is required by the condo law.  None the less, the Land Registry seems to have approved the change in committee members.  Can anything be done about this?

[Delight]

If you are the only person complaining -then I suspect not.

An EGM can be organised to replace the JPM

 

It is the JPM who is responsible for keeping the condo on the right side of the law.

20% (by vote allocation ) of the co-owners must attend a co -owners meeting and sign that they wish to have a EGM

 

Of course a replacement JPM must be available.

Note : There is much detail to comply with such that the co -owners meeting is valid. All written accounts of the meeting must be in Thai-for example.

Suggest that you get the 20% together first. Sort out the detail later

[KittenKong]

8 hours ago, JimboJ said:

It was also three months later than the time limit after the end of the accounting period, which is the end of the year. 

You can complain about that in writing to the Land Office.

 

8 hours ago, JimboJ said:

Also, they did not send out written notification, as is required by the condo law. 

You can complain about that in writing too.

 

8 hours ago, JimboJ said:

None the less, the Land Registry seems to have approved the change in committee members.  Can anything be done about this?

The Land Office checks nothing of its own accord, and they have only rubber-stamped the results of your election which are assumed to be valid. You have to complain in writing if you want any action. But that action will probably be limited to the Land Office writing a letter to the JPM and/or the committee or maybe imposing a tiny fine.

 

If you want real action then you would need to start legal proceedings against the JPM and/or Chairman for not respecting the law in relation to the delay after the end of your financial year, and not sending out written invitations. And of course you will have to pay lawyers and court fees for that, and it may take months or years. I often wonder what the point of the Condo Act and the Land Office is, as neither have any real teeth and never even suck hard let alone bite.

It's just another Thai pretence at real law and order.

 

If you dont have the support of at least 50% of those likely to be present at an AGM/EGM then you are probably wasting your time, as those others will just outvote you. They may be in cahoots with the JPM anyway, and running some sort of scam. They usually are.

[KittenKong]

7 hours ago, Delight said:

An EGM can be organised to replace the JPM

It is the JPM who is responsible for keeping the condo on the right side of the law.

20% (by vote allocation ) of the co-owners must attend a co -owners meeting and sign that they wish to have a EGM

20% is required to hold an EGM but 25% is required to elect or remove a JPM.

 

Section 49 A resolution relating to the following matters shall receive the votes of not less than one fourth of the joint owners’ total votes:

(1) Appointment or removal of the Manager,

 

[smutcakes]

If the end of the accounting period was the end of the year, it would mean they have 120 days to have the AGM. Are you referring to fiscal year 2017-2018? as given its only end of January they are well within the 120 days, but you say they were 3 months over the time limit.

 

If you want to file a complaint it has to be done within 30 days, so would assume you are at least 6 months late.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, smutcakes said:

If the end of the accounting period was the end of the year, it would mean they have 120 days to have the AGM. Are you referring to fiscal year 2017-2018? as given its only end of January they are well within the 120 days, but you say they were 3 months over the time limit.

Some buildings I know end their accounting years in June or September, and it sounds like the OP's may be like that.

 

Either way, the law says within 120 days of the end of the accounting year, as you point out.

[Delight]

9 hours ago, KittenKong said:

20% is required to hold an EGM but 25% is required to elect or remove a JPM.

 

Section 49 A resolution relating to the following matters shall receive the votes of not less than one fourth of the joint owners’ total votes:

(1) Appointment or removal of the Manager,

 

 This is true. in fact 25% is required to validate the EGM.

However this 25% can include proxies.

The 20% co -owner meeting cannot include proxies

Section 42/2 of the condo act gives more detail about the calling of a EGM.

I attach.

[KittenKong]

Yes, the meeting can be summoned by fewer people but 25% of the total co-owner vote in favour (not just those present, including proxies) is required to elect or remove a JPM. So there is little point calling an EGM to remove a JPM unless you can be pretty certain that at least 25% of all units will attend or send proxies, and will vote in favour.

[smutcakes]

2 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Some buildings I know end their accounting years in June or September, and it sounds like the OP's may be like that.

 

Either way, the law says within 120 days of the end of the accounting year, as you point out.

I know but he specifically said its the end of the year.

[KittenKong]

1 minute ago, smutcakes said:

I know but he specifically said its the end of the year.

Yes, but which year? The accounting year or the fiscal year or the calendar year? It wasnt very clear to me.

 

I suppose that he may have meant that their accounting year ends in December, which would require the AGM to be held by late April, but in fact it was held several months late some time in the low season. Maybe he is asking now to clarify whether they can force it to happen before the end of April this year. It isnt clear.

 

Anyway, I just thought I would clarify that the AGM has to be held by 120 days after the end of the accounting year, regardless of when that is.

[JimboJ]

Thanks everyone for the information.

I meant the end of the calendar year by the year end.  So the AGM was two months late.

The most useful point may be from smutcake, who says that complaints have to be made within 30 days.  Where does this information come from?

 

Since I was not in Thailand for two months after the meeting this would not have been possible.  The minutes were not sent out by email, and were not even posted  to mail boxes.

 

Another line of attack is the monthly income/expenditure accounts, which should be posted on the condo notice board every month, but of course are not.  The fine for not doing this is max. 50,000 baht, plus 5,000 a day.  (Condo Act section 68.)  Does the juristic person manager pay these fines personally (in theory),  or are they an expense for the condo?

 

Obviously everyone has these problems, and the Land Office is not interested.  I have been told that there is only one lady checking all AGM minutes for approval.  Another possible approach is to publish on the internet details of infractions of the rules with names.  This might put people off buying into badly run condos, and so put some real pressure on the committees.  But it would need the advice of a good lawyer, who I have yet to find.  Would anyone be interested in exploring this possibility?

[KittenKong]

18 hours ago, JimboJ said:

The most useful point may be from smutcake, who says that complaints have to be made within 30 days.  Where does this information come from? 

I'm not aware of any such requirement.

 

18 hours ago, JimboJ said:

Since I was not in Thailand for two months after the meeting this would not have been possible.  The minutes were not sent out by email, and were not even posted  to mail boxes.

There is no requirement to send out minutes at all. You can view them at the building office.

There is a requirement to send out invitations by post before the meeting, and the time-frame for that is generally taken to be 7-15 days.

 

19 hours ago, JimboJ said:

Another line of attack is the monthly income/expenditure accounts, which should be posted on the condo notice board every month, but of course are not.  The fine for not doing this is max. 50,000 baht, plus 5,000 a day.  (Condo Act section 68.)  Does the juristic person manager pay these fines personally (in theory),  or are they an expense for the condo?

The JPM is liable, but in practice an envelope will change hands and he will get a tiny fine, if any.

 

19 hours ago, JimboJ said:

I have been told that there is only one lady checking all AGM minutes for approval.

As far as I know that check is limited to ensuring that the correct documents are supplied, not what is written on the documents.

 

I think that your only real hope is to ditch the corrupt people fast and try and find someone less corrupt.

[JimboJ]

4 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

I think that your only real hope is to ditch the corrupt people fast and try and find someone less corrupt.

How?

Even now in high season few owners are in residence.  The committee controls when the next general meeting will take place, which will be when there are as few people around as possible.  They may even invent the attendance forms and proxies - there is no way of checking.

 

As I suggested, the only way of discouraging blatant illegality is by giving it maximum publicity, but in spite of all the complaints about condo management, no one seems interested.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, JimboJ said:

How?

Even now in high season few owners are in residence.  The committee controls when the next general meeting will take place, which will be when there are as few people around as possible.  They may even invent the attendance forms and proxies - there is no way of checking.

 

As I suggested, the only way of discouraging blatant illegality is by giving it maximum publicity, but in spite of all the complaints about condo management, no one seems interested.

I know full well that it isn't easy. I've been there.

 

You will have to get support from many other co-owners. Then you can call your own meeting. You should get a sensible Thai-speaking co-owner involved, or pay a lawyer to help.

If the current committee/JPM are not obeying the Condo Act you can complain in writing to the Land Office. The current committee cannot serve more than two consecutive terms as long as someone stands against them at that time, so that may be your opportunity to throw them out. Fraudulent votes and fraudulent proxies are quite common. I have no idea what you can do about that.

 

Sadly apathy is par for the course here. I have no idea why. If no one else is interested then it would probably be best just to sell up and leave the building.