BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[Mango Bob]

2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Bring your bank book with you on 90 day reporting??? with a bank letter???

???

My 90 day report would b Aug 2019  my extension of stay is Jul 19.   That doesn't make any sense.    If you don't know don't say anything stupid.

[skatewash]

8 hours ago, arithai12 said:

I don't follow you at all. What is this "you lose 400, you lose another 400"? It's your money, either you spend it or not, the only thing that changes is the cash flow.

In fact for many like me, who deposited 800k long time ago and have forgotten about it, nothing changes at all. It is not lost, the moment I decide to stop my extensions I will cash it in. Sure I forego the possible extra gain of having this money more cleverly invested outside Thailand, but actually considering how the baht has been beating all major currencies in the last few years even that is not so bad.

 

As for monthly transfers of 65k, since I (and many others who own the place where they live, don't have an extended family to support and don't party every night) spend less than that, it is non-economical as I would be accumulating money in Thailand for no purpose.

 

I recognize there might be persons with different requirements, but as far as I am concerned your prediction is wrong.

 

 

 

I agree. you aren't following me. ????  You "lose" the use of your money.  Under the previous rules you "lost" the use of 800,000 for three months, under the new rules you "lose" the use of 400,000 forever (until you leave Thailand permanently).  You additionally "lose" the use of 400,000 of your money for six months.  It's not rocket science, I can't imagine why this is not understandable.  You say you don't touch the 800,000 ever so it's not lost to you.  Sorry but that's just a funny statement.  It would be more accurate to say that you're OK with losing the use of 800,000 of your money until you leave Thailand permanently.

 

Many people, unlike you, did use their money outside of the seasoning period.  This ability has been removed by the new rules.  Essentially, the "cost" of using the lump-sum method has gone up by 400,000 and there's a new requirement to extend the sequestration of an additional 400,000 for twice the period of time as under the old rules.

There is no sequestration of your own funds under the monthly deposit method.  Once people figure that out they will switch from the lump sum method to the monthly deposit method.  It's the sensible thing to do under the present circumstances.  Some people may have reasons for not making the switch such as convenience or simplicity.  I suspect you will not be making the switch.  That's fine.  To each his own.  There are reasons for many people to do so.  Time will tell what actually happens.

[Genericnic]

4 hours ago, catman20 said:

maybe this is why Thailand is doing this to get shot of all the poorer people. sorry David

It will get rid of some of us non-poorer people as well. Just because we will be leaving does not mean we cannot afford to stay. It just means that we have reached our limits for dealing with poor policies by the IO. 

 

David

 

[wgdanson]

50 minutes ago, Wullie Mercer said:

How else would you do it??

Here's a scenario. You enter Thailand on 1st Jan on your re-entry permit. Your Retirement ext. is due on 1st March

You must do your 90 day reports on 31st March, 25th June, 22nd Sept 20th Dec and 18th March.

Do your ext. on 1st March with 800k in the bank seasoned since 1 Dec or Jan (2 or 3 months)

You will now have to show that 800k still untouched on 1st Jun, ( no good at your next 90 days as that is 25th Jun and you cannot do 90 day report 25 days early)

Show 400k on 1st Sept, (90 day report due on 22nd Sept)

Put back to 800k on 1st Dec in order for it to be 3 months before next Ext. Renew on 1st March.

 

Does this make sense?

 

[Isaanben]

13 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

So no one really knows what the procedure will be to show that you have the money in the bank for 3 months after your extension of stay or 400,000 after the three months are up until 2 months prior to the next extension is due.   As always no rules just let each immigration office do what they want to do instead of putting out instruction on how it will be done.   The Big Joke has really no idea what is going on in immigration along with all of his IO

Ubon Joe has answered that you have to show that when you apply for extension next time.

[Chongalulu]

29 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

So how do YOU get your extension without 800k in bank or 65k monthly transfer?

I just got my extension with the BE income letter so I’m ok for a year

[bkk6060]

4 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Bring your bank book with you on 90 day reporting??? with a bank letter???

???

Ubonjoe has already explained this and a contact I have at Immigration confirms.

At your next extension, you bring in your bank book statement to confirm.

Not at the 90 day report.

 

[overherebc]

3 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

My 90 day report would b Aug 2019  my extension of stay is Jul 19.   That doesn't make any sense.    If you don't know don't say anything stupid.

It applies to new extensions starting on 1/3/2019, not existing ones.

I promise not to insult you.

[Lacessit]

Just now, bkk6060 said:

Ubonjoe has already explained this and a contact I have at Immigration confirms.

At your next extension, you bring in your bank book statement to confirm.

Not at the 90 day report.

 

Correct

[overherebc]

1 minute ago, bkk6060 said:

Ubonjoe has already explained this and a contact I have at Immigration confirms.

At your next extension, you bring in your bank book statement to confirm.

Not at the 90 day report.

 

Yes, new extensions.

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Here's a scenario. You enter Thailand on 1st Jan on your re-entry permit. Your Retirement ext. is due on 1st March

You must do your 90 day reports on 31st March, 25th June, 22nd Sept 20th Dec and 18th March.

Do your ext. on 1st March with 800k in the bank seasoned since 1 Dec or Jan (2 or 3 months)

You will now have to show that 800k still untouched on 1st Jun, ( no good at your next 90 days as that is 25th Jun and you cannot do 90 day report 25 days early)

Show 400k on 1st Sept, (90 day report due on 22nd Sept)

Put back to 800k on 1st Dec in order for it to be 3 months before next Ext. Renew on 1st March.

 

Does this make sense?

 

No. The 90 day reports are a separate entity. The bank statements at your next extension application MAY have to show 800K after the last extension for 3 months, and 400K thereafter. It depends on when you got your last extension.

[pookiki]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

didn't forget, it is just another little detail that slips under the rug come extension renewal - what seasoning ? what 400k ?

 

when you are paying someone to overlook something - do you think there are rules exceptions or boundaries they will not cross ?

 

and it is 3 months before and 3 months after unless it is first application - seasoning has gone up to 6 months - which quite frankly is ridiculous for so many reasons

The use of agents actually create a three tier system. While TVF members tend to focus on Western expats, the agent system serves many 'customers' from neighboring countries who use a retirement visa and subsequent extensions of stays as a de facto work permit.  It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out if there is really a crack down on the agent system.  For a number of reasons, I just can see that happening. 

 

There was never an empirical evidence that Aussies, Brits, Yanks, or Danes were abusing the embassy letter system.  Or that other embassies do a better job that the ones who decided to cancel the issuance of the letters.  As things stand now, there is not a level playing field for expats doing their extension of stay.  And I will never understand why the four embassies caved on the issue of the letters/affidavits.  Gutless diplomacy in my view.

[skatewash]

8 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

I have 800k in my thai account it has never been touched, I get a monthly pension from the UK it is under 65k, what is now expected of me in order to continue living here? can I continue as I have for the last 10 years showing 800k in the bank? I am totally confused!

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

You are one of the people for whom this change in rules will have absolutely no effect.  With one exception, when you go for your next extension you may need to get a bank statement for the previous year from your bank.  This will show that three months prior to your application for the extension you had 800k in the account, it will also show that for three months after your application you had 800k in the account, it will also show that for the entire year you never had less than 400k in the bank.  Because you have 800k in the bank and you never touch it you automatically satisfy all the new regulations.

The people most affected by this new regulation are those people who had 800k in the bank for three months prior to their application for the extension.  Then outside of that three month seasoning period, they would use that money to pay their living expenses in Thailand.  Then, three months before they were to go to get a new extension they would top-up their account to an amount greater than 800k in order to qualify for their extension.  These people will now have to bring in more money to support their living expenses because 400k is "frozen" for the entire year (can't be used for their expenses) and an additional 400k is "frozen" for the new six-month seasoning period.  Because these people were using their own money to support their living expenses in Thailand from this account the "cost" of staying in Thailand has now gone up for them considerably, at least by 400k and arguably closer to 800k.

Edited February 1, 2019 by skatewash
type and added emphasis

[dcnx]

55 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I don't know what kind of interest that amount can generate in your investment of choice, but surely it's not substantially more than the 1.75% a Thai bank will pay? 

You’ve been in Thailand too long. Thats such a small amount.

[bkk6060]

Just a serious suggestion.

I would give this a little time to be fully disseminated to all the offices.

Then a fair time before you are due, take all the recent rules to your local office.  Thai and English versions and get the scoop.  Politely get the names and rank of who you spoke too. They can and will interpret things differently.

So, don't be caught with whatever in your hand make an effort to get ahead of this for your particular situation.

Edited February 1, 2019 by bkk6060

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, skatewash said:

There is no sequestration of your own funds under the monthly deposit method.  Once people figure that out they will switch from the lump sum method to the monthly deposit method.  It's the sensible thing to do under the present circumstances.  Some people may have reasons for not making the switch such as convenience or simplicity.  I suspect you will not be making the switch.  That's fine.  To each his own.  There are reasons for many people to do so.  Time will tell what actually happens.

True enough. However, getting the monthly deposit figure right with exchange fluctuations is going to be a PITA. I don't know if being under 65K for just one month would affect the extension application; however, I prefer not to find out the hard way.

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, dcnx said:

You’ve been in Thailand too long. Thats such a small amount.

So is 800K. My bank in Australia is paying 2.7%, don't think US or UK banks pay any more. I can live with losing 1% interest on the 800K. I have no need to be chasing the best interest rates anyway.

Edited February 1, 2019 by giddyup

[Pattaya46]

8 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

// You must do your 90 day reports on 31st March, 25th June, 22nd Sept 20th Dec and 18th March.

// Does this make sense?

No 

Many people don't (or rarely) do 90-Days reports (e.g. those who frequently travel in nearby countries),

many other do it online and travel to their Immigration Office only once a year...

 

Mainly, except Fabulous radio, nowhere is written that

we have to make verify our bank balance after 3 months or every 3 months.

 

More than likely that the verification will be done at your next extension only,

where you will have to show a balance history like:

(X) 800 800 800 / 400 400 400 / 400 400 400 / 800 800 800 (X+1)

[rott]

 nchuckle I have missed the last twenty pages so not completely up to date. Could you please confirm that 1st March means applies to all extensions issued after that date and not that everybody must have the 400,000 in the bank from that date. Last time I looked the consensus seemed to be the other way.

 

Your opinion or confirmed fact.?

 

Your way is more logical to me but take nothing for granted

[onera1961]

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

No. The 90 day reports are a separate entity. The bank statements at your next extension application MAY have to show 800K after the last extension for 3 months, and 400K thereafter. It depends on when you got your last extension.

This makes more sense to me. You boot strap the system by depositing 800K in the bank for two months (same as now or O-A visa). In your next renewal, you must show that you have left original 800K for three months after your first approval and 400K for the remaining months. If not there will be chaos. People's extension will be voided, they will be arrested, banned and what not. Also more work for IOs if they have to check bank balance every so often. 

However, it is not clear from the police order.

Edited February 1, 2019 by onera1961

[overherebc]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

No 

Many people don't (or rarely) do 90-Days reports (e.g. those who frequently travel in nearby countries),

many other do it online and travel to their Immigration Office only once a year...

 

Mainly, except Fabulous radio, nowhere is written that

we have to make verify our bank balance after 3 months or every 3 months.

 

More than likely that the verification will be done at your next extension only,

where you will have to show a balance history like:

(X) 800 800 800 / 400 400 400 / 400 400 400 / 800 800 800 (X+1)

Next 1 year extension based on the previous years income?

[brianthainess]

This is obvious to me that the banks are in collusion with this as it seems to me the  only reason, if not What is the reason ??

[Mango Bob]

17 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Ubonjoe has already explained this and a contact I have at Immigration confirms.

At your next extension, you bring in your bank book statement to confirm.

Not at the 90 day report.

 

So your bank statement must show around a year worth of data?

[Thingamabob]

16 hours ago, mlkik said:

800.000 baht is not very much if you genuinely have retired and have committed to living in Thailand.

Maybe the people getting worried do not really have enough to retire here? I know many people worry about the exchange rates,if that is the case again maybe they are not financially ready for retirement here?

I am far from being well off but I have put enough money in a Thai account to ensure a worry free retirement.

Interest rates here are no worse than my home country. I am not wealthy enough to speculate and possibly lose on the investment of stocks and shares . Therefore I see no reason not to have savings here.

 

Entirely agree.

[skatewash]

6 hours ago, scotinsiam said:

I don't see how that will work for me and others like me, I have had 4 years of retirement so far and never done a 90-day report as I have a multi-entry extension and am traveling around so never here for 90 days?

You don't see how this will affect you and others like you for the very good reason that it won't. ????  This is for people who get extensions of stay while in Thailand.  You don't do that.  Hence you are unaffected.  

[keemapoot]

9 minutes ago, pookiki said:

The use of agents actually create a three tier system. While TVF members tend to focus on Western expats, the agent system serves many 'customers' from neighboring countries who use a retirement visa and subsequent extensions of stays as a de facto work permit.  It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out if there is really a crack down on the agent system.  For a number of reasons, I just can see that happening. 

 

There was never an empirical evidence that Aussies, Brits, Yanks, or Danes were abusing the embassy letter system.  Or that other embassies do a better job that the ones who decided to cancel the issuance of the letters.  As things stand now, there is not a level playing field for expats doing their extension of stay.  And I will never understand why the four embassies caved on the issue of the letters/affidavits.  Gutless diplomacy in my view.

by de facto work permit I assume you mean that these neighboring country businessmen over 50 would obtain the retirement visa and then work illegally in Thailand. But, because they have the visa they can stay here legally so long as labor department doesn't find out?

 

Otherwise, the retirement visa is not available for those who wish to work.

[Rimmer]

A couple of posts have been removed one off topic and one inflammatory nonsense

[wgdanson]

20 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

I just got my extension with the BE income letter so I’m ok for a year

So did I. Next year?

[Roy Baht]

6 minutes ago, pookiki said:

The use of agents actually create a three tier system. While TVF members tend to focus on Western expats, the agent system serves many 'customers' from neighboring countries who use a retirement visa and subsequent extensions of stays as a de facto work permit.  It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out if there is really a crack down on the agent system.  For a number of reasons, I just can see that happening. 

 

There was never an empirical evidence that Aussies, Brits, Yanks, or Danes were abusing the embassy letter system.  Or that other embassies do a better job that the ones who decided to cancel the issuance of the letters.  As things stand now, there is not a level playing field for expats doing their extension of stay.  And I will never understand why the four embassies caved on the issue of the letters/affidavits.  Gutless diplomacy in my view.

I don't know about the other countries but in the case of the US, I think they want to know where and how money is flowing in the world and an income affidavit does give that info. They don't want Yanks in Thailand living off anonymous bitcoin trading or transferring funds thru ACH transfers through the New York branch of Bangkok Bank (a loophole which will be closed as of April 1st of this year).

[wgdanson]

55 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

So, get a new extension every year? 

Doooh, yes, don't we all.