New retiree visa rules bewilder Thai immigration: Source

[Orton Rd]

3 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

I was at CW today, and officer with whom I spoke indicated that three months’ worth of seasoning - not two - were required of me for a retirement extension.

But today is not march the first is it- when the change takes effect

[Thailand]

4 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

The new  requirement may be a problem  for some but I have just thought of a  complication not yet mentioned.

I am guessing that the confirmation of the  permanent deposit of 400,000 maybe would be asked for at the date of a new 90 day report date following  an extension. Or a special visit to do same. There must be  some process to provide the  confirmation but as yet  no explanation that I have heard of.

However if any person  exits Thailand  for any time prior to that 3 months in possession of a re entry permit and is away until a date after the 3 month time  period the current 90 day report date has expired and starts fresh at  date of re  entry and irrelevant to any previous.

I am up for applying for another extension in  2 weeks time. I also plan to get a re entry permit on same  day for an exit shortly  after. 

The money on deposit is not an issue because I am fortunate enough to have 800,000 which  never leaves the  bank  year on year.

My question is  what is/will be the process to confirm that if I was  not here 3 months after an extension?

 

When you come to renew would be the simple answer, they would simply look at your bank book/account over the whole year, if it did not meet requirements then no extension.

[sfokevin]

1 hour ago, HLover said:

Excuse me, what is your definition of a BJ?  I am not familiar with these letters as used in your post.

Thats a guys name... You were understandably confused as you normally see this on a karaoke menu... 

[moonseeker]

Well, I don't compare with places like PP or Cambodia. I think with all it's negatives, TH is still way ahead of these 3rd. world places. I am not defending the "mess" here, but 800 K is not a very high threshold in 2019 to live here  as an expat. In many respects prices here have surpassed many European countries. How long have the 800 K been in force? Acceptable to adjust at some point , as pretty much most cost of living has doubled the last 20 years.  Extensions are fast and easy, no hassle for me.  I have lived in a bunch of countries incl. USA, European-ones,  Brasil, PP, Cambodia (which was the easiest) etc. Brasil took me a full year to get my residence certificate issued. USA was relatively easy, running a real company and being able to pay an expensive lawyer to handle the entire process. Cambodia and PP easy and cheap, but not the place I wanted to be getting old and ill.

If they / TH would just plan and communicate properly and straightforward and not jump from one thing to another every other month. I feel for the many retirees living here on low-end pensions w/o any savings and no health coverage. The often used "I just fly home, if I get ill" , is not a reasonable statement, as we all know.

Overall the atmosphere seems more and more anti-foreigner, this is one of the many reasons several of my friends have left or are leaving. Money is less of an issue than policies and daily life.  Best regards.  MS>

[Lacessit]

I'm playing it safe. I'm transferring more funds from Oz. If Immigration want to screw me more after that, it's bye-bye Thailand, hello Philippines. And what's in Thailand goes with me.

[Pib]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

 And what's in Thailand goes with me.

Except your money in the bank....they want to keep that.????

[steve73]

It seems to me that TI are making it more difficult for those of us who have been using the savings method simply to force more people to use agents.

 

The existing seasoning requirements are waived using the agent application.. No reason why the new more stringent seasoning requirements should not be similarly waived.

 

It is not an attempt to tighten up on the agents.

Edited February 1, 2019 by steve73

[JackThompson]

24 minutes ago, smedly said:

if they want to check if someone cheated the seasoning rules using and agent and bribing an IO - all they have to do is check the used bank account and it will clearly show the 800k baht was deposited and withdrawn on the same day as the extension application, no need at all for this stupid nonsense

Not sure what the rules are here as far as accessing private banking-info - but for that to work, every applicant's account would need to be monitored/checked.

 

2 minutes ago, moonseeker said:

In many respects prices here have surpassed many European countries. 

Which ones?  And I mean nice ones, with beaches and warm weather - like you find in Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, and The PI? 

 

Keep in mind, the visa-costs for staying in Cambodia and the PI are about $350 (11K Baht) / year.  That doesn't include any "money in the bank," etc.  The PI also has retirement-plan options, which skip the renewals and pesky "every-3rd-year" border-bounce flight.

 

As more people leave Thailand for those locations, business will build up to support those populations, as Thailand languishes.

 

34 minutes ago, moonseeker said:

The misery I have witnessed with many foreigners  in my 24 years in TH, due to not having health coverage at all is unreal and not needed. Fully acceptable, that a government does not want low-end and irresponsible foreigners burdening their system.

What was the sample-size of that study?  I have yet to hear any official numbers of unpaid-hospital costs from foreigners.  I wonder what tiny percentage of the VAT taxes we pay it amounts to?

 

I also support a form of health-insurance - but for every foreigner, including short-term tourists.  Younger people take more risks, after all.  Of course, that would mean the Chinese visitors would have to buy it - and a huge portion of them cannot even afford paying full-price for their VOA - so probably won't happen or TAT's "how many visitors" numbers would crash, with many "Can barely afford the package-tour with discount VOA" Chinese filtered out.

 

If implemented, it would not be expensive - just a "Stabilize and Send Home" plan to handle the occasional broke-injured/sick foreigner is all that is needed to ensure no Thai ever has to pay for a foreigner's medical problem.

 

4 minutes ago, moonseeker said:

The often used "I just fly home, if I get ill" , is not a reasonable statement, as we all know.

Agreed.  That is the solution for long-term illness, of course - unless one has health-insurance or money to pay the Thais, in which case they could stay.  Where the "fly home" plan fails, is with initial treatment for moto or jet-ski accidents and acute illness that requires treatment to allow safe repatriation.

[Psimbo]

38 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

I was at CW today, and officer with whom I spoke indicated that three months’ worth of seasoning - not two - were required of me for a retirement extension.

I think people are getting a bit mixed up. It was (is?) two months for the FIRST retirement permit then three months for subsequent extensions.

 

This was down to people coming in on the Non-Imm O then applying for a bank account and therefore 90 days was not feasible.

[Pattaya46]

45 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

I was at CW today, and officer with whom I spoke indicated that three months’ worth of seasoning - not two - were required of me for a retirement extension.

What did you want he reply else? You were wrong assuming it would already be 2 months.

He is right: The rule today is 3 months; Next month it will be 2 months

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, moonseeker said:

Still very reasonable requirements for retirement. Much more important would be a mandatory health insurance for anybody on long-term visa or retirement-extensions.

The misery I have witnessed with many foreigners  in my 24 years in TH, due to not having health coverage at all is unreal and not needed. Fully acceptable, that a government does not want low-end and irresponsible foreigners burdening their system. Or it would end up a welfare state like so many European places. There will still be plenty of retirees left, after sorting it all out.  MS>

That won't work until billing is based on nature of injury rather than ethnicity of patient and something is done about the ol' 'pre-existing conditions' che$tnut.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, pattayadgw said:

If BJ keeps going down this road he won't have too many foreigners left in LOS.  Just keep squeezing BJ and at the end of it all it will be just another case of som nom naaaa!!  you make ya bed... now sleep in it!!

I don't think the hard-liners find a massive-loss in longer-stayers to be a problem at all.  After all, they clearly could not care less about the Thais who will lose their jobs/careers, based on their policy-changes to-date. 

[sweatalot]

2 hours ago, HLover said:

Excuse me, what is your definition of a BJ?  I am not familiar with these letters as used in your post.

Seems you don't understand jokes. You should start with small jokes

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

if they want to check if someone cheated the seasoning rules using and agent and bribing an IO - all they have to do is check the used bank account and it will clearly show the 800k baht was deposited and withdrawn on the same day as the extension application, no need at all for this stupid nonsense

 

People need to use this money to live on - it was bad enough not touching it for 3 month never mind the proposed 5 months, and then not being able to use half of it ever - what !!!!

 

There was nothing wrong with the existing rules, it was the bent IO's willing to turn a blind eye to the seasoning for a hefty bribe fascilitated by agents that are the problem, all these new rules do is increase the opportunity for bribes not stop them

This kerfuffle only came about after Imm tried to lean on the Embassies and were rightly told to sling their hook. Everything since then smacks of 'Face' coupled with a smattering of guesswork.

Edited February 1, 2019 by evadgib

[sweatalot]

1 hour ago, moonseeker said:

foreigners burdening their system. 

They are not burdening the system. They just don't get treatment and go down.

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

This kerfuffle only came about after Imm tried to lean on the Embassies and were rightly told to sling their hook.

I think that was just "Phase I" - the set-up to what is happening now.

[Ebumbu]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

This is the thing that changed. the money now not only needs to be seasoned in advance (seemingly 2 rather than 3 months) but also cannot be touched for 3 months after, and even then only half of it can ever be spent.

 

it is basically a 400K bond that has top be posted and maintained. But badly worded/designed.

 

Bonds are for criminals. 

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

 

Bonds are for criminals. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surety_bond

[Mango Bob]

I got an idea lets just start all over again and let those embassies issue income letters just like before and forget how you made a fool of yourself here BJ.

[Dumbastheycome]

55 minutes ago, Thailand said:

When you come to renew would be the simple answer, they would simply look at your bank book/account over the whole year, if it did not meet requirements then no extension.

The only sense I can make of your  reply is that you mean at the time of a consecutive application for extension rather than the first one after new requirements take effect. It would/does make sense if it were to be the  situation.

[smedly]

19 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Not sure what the rules are here as far as accessing private banking-info - but for that to work, every applicant's account would need to be monitored/checked.

The problem BJ has is he cannot trust his own staff or any official to check any of this, it could be a simple case of bringing the used bankbook to immigration upon request after the extension has been granted - but then who does BJ trust in the local office to do this, as it stands officials in the local Immigration office are complicit in the illegal activity so they will never investigate/expose themselves. BJ needs a team he trusts to randomly select immigration offices and do an internal audit and if required contact approved extension applicants and ask them to provide their bank statements, if they have been involved in bypassing the rules then their extension should be cancelled, the agent and IO involved should be prosecuted - simple

[metisdead]

Troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[marcusarelus]

19 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

I got an idea lets just start all over again and let those embassies issue income letters just like before and forget how you made a fool of yourself here BJ.

Do you think the Thai electorate think him a fool?

[madmen]

If BJ keeps going down this road he won't have too many foreigners left in LOS.  Just keep squeezing BJ and at the end of it all it will be just another case of som nom naaaa!!  you make ya bed... now sleep in it!!

I THINK the BJ stellar rise to superstar is over. I think he just fell on his sword [emoji16]

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

Will this lot end up in the file cabinet marked ''It's all been a terrible misunderstanding '' ?

sure hope so .... wishful thinking anyway

[sumrit]

38 minutes ago, evadgib said:

This kerfuffle only came about after Imm tried to lean on the Embassies and were rightly told to sling their hook.

And so, after TI were told to 'sling their hook', they decided to tighten up the system themselves.

 

Firstly they got rid of the loopholes in the income-based option so now we all have to prove we deposit a minimum amount in a Thai bank monthly. Several posters on here laughed and said it was done to 'encourage' people to deposit 800k in a Thai bank and use agents if they didn't have the cash to do it legally. An agents paradise who would continue lining IO's pockets, even more, it was suggested by some.

 

Then this bombshell. Assuming it will be implemented correctly by the IO's, this is far more restrictive than for the income option. The 800/400k will now have to be maintained in the bank and people using this option will have to bring more money into Thailand for living expenses. OK for the more wealthy but difficult for a lot of others. I believe it will actually encourage people to use this 'easier' income method in the future. And people without sufficient finances are likely to find it increasingly difficult to find an illegal route.

 

The big question mark to all of this working for Thai Immigration is:  'Assuming it will be implemented correctly by the IO's'

[Mavideol]

so many contradictions it's unbelievable or are we missing something, Big Joke said

""""I can guarantee it will be easy to apply and live here,” Surachate said. “[But] bad people will have a hard time.”

Proposed changes include abolishing 90-day reports and introducing 10-year visas for foreign retirees, Surachate said.

“My goal is to make visitors to our country, whether here for tourism or business, feel safe,” said Surachate,  ..here he said visitors thus tourist not retirees

[madmen]

BJ took a stable system that worked and trashed it

. So what if farang earned a bit less than the 65k a figure pulled out of immigrations backside? I don't see farang beggars anywhere . It's proven over and over that farang supporting a family upcountry can live on a fraction of that

So there was some stretching of the truth on income letters.. And the other embassies apart from the infamous 4 continue to accept the dodgy affidavits.

It's just a big mess now with not much clarity

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

The money must now be in the bank 2 months before AND 3 months after.

and 400K there at ALL times

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

I'm just glad I can show a monthly income into a Thai bank for well above the required 65K a month.  With recently printed out deposits from my bank for the past year.  

I don't use a retirement visa as I'm not old enough but I do transfer at least 100k Baht into my Thai account every month so I guess that's always an option in a few years time if I don't go with the 20 year Elite visa that is.