New retiree visa rules bewilder Thai immigration: Source

[HuskerDo]

5 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

My nephew stayed with me in the Kingdom for 6 months he absolutely loved the place he then went to New Zealand and although he liked it said it was way to costly . For the past 3 months he has been living in Argentina and tells me it is way cheaper than Thailand and that it is an amazing place to live so maybe the time has come for me to look to greener pastures or convert to a multi entry and take a nice holiday 4 times a year.

Not safe in Argentina...

 

Crime rates in Argentina

Level of crime	73.40	High
Problem people using or dealing drugs	64.23	High
Problem property crimes such as vandalism and theft	70.04	High
Problem violent crimes such as assault and armed robbery	71.09	High
Problem corruption and bribery	85.37	Very High

[Naamblar2014]

13 hours ago, madmen said:

I THINK the BJ stellar rise to superstar is over. I think he just fell on his sword

That would be the honorable thing to do ????

[sumrit]

3 hours ago, HuskerDo said:

3 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

What do you suggest is fair treatment in the case of a UK citizen who retired here 15 years ago with £1000 a month pension, and has lived comfortably since then supporting his Thai family, even in spite the steadily worsening rates of exchange? Is he to abandon his family and go back to work at age 75?

 

For the record, 15 years ago £1000 purchased 74000 baht, right now the same money will get you around 41000 on a good day. 

How did you get an extension the last several years if a person needs 65,000 baht monthly? £1000 is approx. half that amount.

If that '75 year old' is supporting his Thai family he is likely to be on a marriage extension, so, even at todays lousy exchange rates, his £1000pm would still be enough.

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

You are non stop in your defense of everything these silly folks do.

 

There are a metric TONNE of investments that yield better than 2% -- all over the world. There are better places to park money -- especially now that they don't even intend for you to use half of it in the case of the new rules requiring you to keep 400K tied up. Show me another country that has such silly rules.

No secure investments pay more than 2%.  Show me?  Of course keep in mind the exchange rate.  All countries with equivalent infrastructure and cost of living have more stringent rules than Thailand.   

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, Naamblar2014 said:

That would be the honorable thing to do ????

I know you do but do Thai people think that?  You do know no one cares what you think in Thailand?  Just checking. 

[KCPhuket]

16 hours ago, Sheryl said:

This is the thing that changed. the money now not only needs to be seasoned in advance (seemingly 2 rather than 3 months) but also cannot be touched for 3 months after, and even then only half of it can ever be spent.

 

it is basically a 400K bond that has to be posted and maintained. But badly worded/designed.

I read it as 800k...which should just be left in the Thai bank all year to avoid problems.  Not convenient...I've resisted doing it by using the income letter for 12 yrs.  But I see the 800k all year as the most certain to be accepted. Cheers

[HuskerDo]

10 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Herb Alpert will be happy to hear that.

Don't forget about the Tijuana Brass. ???? 

Edited February 2, 2019 by HuskerDo

[evadgib]

6 hours ago, dcnx said:

You honestly think the junta is going to allow anyone else to take control of the county?

 

This will be a sham election. Even if it’s not Prayut, it will be someone on their team.

I still need not flap until 2020, given this years extn is 'in the bag' as a result of a 'pension letter' purchased just before their cut off date in December ????

[rexall]

16 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

Reactions on Thaivisa, a webforum frequented by expats in Thailand, was overwhelmingly negative, with many commentators saying the regulations undercut claims from Thai officials that the deposit is to ensure they have sufficient resources to get by.

 

“Then why keep up the charade that this money is to cover living expenses if it can only be used six months out of the year,” user Connda wrote. “So…what’s next? What’s the next hammer to drop?”

“And I thought the 800,000 baht was for living expenses, not as an interest earner for the Thai banks!” user Madmitch vented.

 

there is room in my attic if anyone wants to hide.

This would not mean much to married as they are allowed to own a business and/or have a work permit. However, for retirees, if they are not living on the 800K, how are they supporting themselves? In other words, how would Imm know if they are illegally employed or doing business?  Well, the only way would be to require the retiree to demonstrate monthly income from offshore. So, if he can demonstrate income from offshore, why would he deposit 800K in a Thailand bank?   

[Naamblar2014]

13 hours ago, sumrit said:

I believe it will actually encourage people to use this 'easier' income method in the future.

So maybe that's the end goal.  Get people to bring in regular monthly income into Thailand.  My question then is this,  can this regular income coming into Thailand each month then be considered as earned in the same year and thus be taxed?

Its all good for Thailand, 3 theories;

1. Savings method.  Tie up foreigners funds for long periods in Thai banks

2. Income method.  Tax all incoming transfers earned in the same year.

3. Increase use of agents.  Increase the use of local businesses and as a byproduct contribute to the improvement in the lives of our overworked immigration officials.

[jimn]

I wish some posters on here would stick to and discuss the original OP which is "New retiree visa rules bewilder Thai immigration: Source"

If anyone wants to comment on the new arrangements there is an 85 or more pages on another thread where you can post your repeated comnents over and over again. Lets discuss on this thread what could happen if TI do not implement the new rules, its then a bit different rather than more of the same agsin and again.

[lamyai3]

4 minutes ago, sumrit said:

If that '75 year old' is supporting his Thai family he is likely to be on a marriage extension, so, even at todays lousy exchange rates, his £1000pm would still be enough.

Not if Britain crashes out in a no deal and the pound tanks below the required levels. I could have said a Thai family rather than his, but I thought it seemed obvious I gave the £1000 figure as an example rather than a literal amount.

 

Let me phrase the example differently. If someone on a retirement visa had 120000 baht income per month, would you call them reckless for wanting to retire here now? That same 120000 baht would have cost them £1650 in 2004, and as of right now the same sum in pounds barely scrapes past the 65000 post. Anyone who continues to insist such a retiree is irresponsible and underfunded is either being obtuse or bloody-minded. 

[Henryford]

The killer will be the compulsary health insurance if it comes. OK maybe for those under 60 but for those 65-80 the premiums would be unaffordable or cover unavailable.

[rexall]

As far as I know, BUPA/Aetna will not issue a new policy to anyone over age 61. If you enrolled before age 61, you are "grandfathered in" ... literally and figuratively. Not that the shitty coverage provides much for a serious illness or injury.

[Pib]

13 hours ago, overherebc said:

As soon as they start an O-A ten year visa let me know. I want one.

Oh, you can bet if BJ does offer a O-A 10 year retirement extension of stay (a.k.a., visa) it will really mirror the current O-X 10 Year retirement Visa you can get right now....been available for about 2 years already.  But you need to get it in your home country and the basic requirement is Bt3M in the bank and/or via income with specific medical insurance from one of three Thai insurance companies.

 

Go the the Thai Embassy -Washington DC website below for the details....please report back when you get the 10 year O-X Visa....and how much interest you are getting on the Bt3M deposit at Thai bank XYZ.

 

https://thaiembdc.org/non-immigrant-visa-category-o-x-long-stay/

 

 

[tgeezer]

Birth, age, pain, death Is the life cycle in Thai. There should be no compulsion to insure health in old age, those who accept fate don't need it and those who don't will get it for themselves.
If insurance is compulsory for any group of visitors then all visitors should have it. The government should also contribute and I think that this is probably why it isn't compulsory.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, skatewash said:

So I guess we may have to disagree about those details, but I'm glad to find common ground in that we both believe the embassies let down their citizens very badly and decry the unfair two-tier system that resulted from the embassies decisions.

Yes, you're right - I'm speculating about the Yingluck visa thing and it doesn't explain the behaviour of the other embassies. Apologies if you thought I was challenging your post, I pretty much agree your comments.

 

I don't know why the embassies buckled the way they did, nor why the authorities only seem to have singled out these four for punishment. One can only guess there must have been substantial leverage from very high up to cause them to dump the letters, considering the backlash they'd have known it would create.

Edited February 2, 2019 by lamyai3

[overherebc]

7 minutes ago, Pib said:

Oh, you can bet if BJ does offer a O-A 10 year retirement extension of stay (a.k.a., visa) it will really mirror the current O-X 10 Year retirement Visa you can get right now....been available for about 2 years already.  But you need to get it in your home country and the basic requirement is Bt3M in the bank and/or via income with specific medical insurance from one of three Thai insurance companies.

 

Go the the Thai Embassy -Washington DC website below for the details....please report back when you get the 10 year O-X Visa....and how much interest you are getting on the Bt3M deposit at Thai bank XYZ.

 

https://thaiembdc.org/non-immigrant-visa-category-o-x-long-stay/

 

 

At my age I'm happy to get a new visa every 17 months.

 

[Jonnapat]

I'm interested in the fact that Bangkok Bank has always retained 400k in my account which I'm not allowed to touch.

Has nobody else encountered this situation? 

[no deal]

a lot of people who don't have the money to get they visa barrow from some company, I have ben offer that service by some one at the tourist police! that illegal, some people all way try to go around  the system ! that why immigration try to avoid that, and I understand! is like marriage visa I have a marriage visa for 10 years now and I have to wait two month to get my visa back to Bangkok, and that because of fake marriage! all that make everything hard for other people,why you all way complaint about immigration,i have no problem whit them and a lot people are like me!

[Pib]

1 minute ago, Jonnapat said:

I'm interested in the fact that Bangkok Bank has always retained 400k in my account which I'm not allowed to touch.

Has nobody else encountered this situation? 

Nothing prevents you from withdrawing those funds if you want to

[ebean001]

The 800,000b rule is a game changer. I am sure many will leave. This will cost Thailand a lot of money. I need the 800,000 in an investment account. It makes enough money every month to help me.

What Thailand and the world needs to do is provide health care insurance for all Visa and tourist when they do not have adequate coverage. Health care is getting way too expensive. The costs must stop but it seems government do not really care to control the unGodly cost.

Make it a country run account. In other words, no profit from greedy insurance companies.

I would like them to charge maybe 15,000 each year for my retirement visa (I have no idea what the right number should be). Take that money and put into an ‘insurance’ account. Give the retiree a moderately deducible health care insurance policy.

They can also give tourist the option of buying an insurance policy at xxxbahts a day. Again, the whole world should go to this type of plan.

The problem with travel is this…get sick, for example, in USA and your bankrupt. It should scare anyone who travels without worldwide health care coverage.

Ok, I know I did not give much thought but the idea is this…government run insurance (no profit for insurance companies), every Visa and tourist pays something unless they are covered, and coverage by a policy that has a deductible…not too high but not too low.

Of course, preexisting conditions cannot be covered because many come for to Thai for health care.

 

[no deal]

53 minutes ago, rexall said:

This would not mean much to married as they are allowed to own a business and/or have a work permit. However, for retirees, if they are not living on the 800K, how are they supporting themselves? In other words, how would Imm know if they are illegally employed or doing business?  Well, the only way would be to require the retiree to demonstrate monthly income from offshore. So, if he can demonstrate income from offshore, why would he deposit 800K in a Thailand bank?   

he just need to transfer every month 65000tb on is thai account, no need to show 800.000tb!

[Jumbo1968]

17 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

The money must now be in the bank 2 months before AND 3 months after.

I assume this has been mentioned before but I thought the 800000 Baht was for living on so theoretically for 3 months after you get the Extension what are you supposed to live on ?

Again theoretically you only have 400000 Baht to live on for the next 7 months before topping up to 800000 Baht 2 months prior to renewing your Extension ?

Who makes these rules up, they are very contradictory, the 800000 Baht is supposed to be for a year to live on not 400000 Baht.

[Lacessit]

15 hours ago, steve73 said:

It seems to me that TI are making it more difficult for those of us who have been using the savings method simply to force more people to use agents.

 

The existing seasoning requirements are waived using the agent application.. No reason why the new more stringent seasoning requirements should not be similarly waived.

 

It is not an attempt to tighten up on the agents.

I don't think it will be more difficult for those doing their own extensions. It only means the bank statements have to go back one year instead of three months for verification of funds. It will be more difficult for those who don't have those funds. Presumably agents will be demanding more for their "services".

Strictly speaking, waiving seasoning requirements is illegal and corrupt. Whether anything is done about that remains to be seen.

[Mamasun]

 

Hi,

 

Can someone confirm that if my embassy confirm my income  : Nothing will change ???

 

Where is the list of Embassies who doesn't make letters anynore ???

 

If someone 10 years ago come here and obtain an extension on basis : 50 income and 50 percent money in bank....do they are under the new law ?  do they need to leave (sell) their Home (not rented) , family friends ,their pets ect and leave because they don't meet the new requirements ? (will be cruel and a non sense)

 

[Sparkles]

9 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

I'm interested in the fact that Bangkok Bank has always retained 400k in my account which I'm not allowed to touch.

Has nobody else encountered this situation? 

If that is an investment account you can take it out at any time ,you just lose any interest for the period you signed up for.I roll my 800,000b over each year, take out the interest, about 10,000 baht and pay tax which I get refunded the amount with a tax card.

 

Banks cant withhold your money against your wishes

 

[LivinLOS]

14 hours ago, overherebc said:

As soon as they start an O-A ten year visa let me know. I want one.

Its started.. 

 

3 mil in the bank or provable income of 1.2 mil per year and 1.8 mil in the bank.. You can only take half back out of the country, and must have compulsory health insurance of a decent standard.

 

Issued in 2x 5 year chunks.. I think they need to check the funds at the 5 year point. 

I am still 3 years out.. But the day I turn past 50 thats the option I am doing.. No issues for a decade. 

[Cereal]

So, all that money tied up for 5 months in banks then the ex-pat is only allowed to withdraw half, multiplied by all the ex-pat retirees...

 

Looks like a few banks and the government are in for an influx of cash!

[Odisan]

Where I am, the 3 months 'after' would actually be 4-months, all told. This is because, when the paperwork's submitted, I get a temporary stamp for a month - it's this period where they check the paperwork, visit the house, etc. So, with the 2-months before, plus the 3 months, and the interim 1 month, it'll be 6-months.

As an aside, I don't plan on touching the money in the account, but that's by-the-by; just the reasons they give for it needing to be in the account don't hold up anymore.  Not that I imagine the PTB care about that 1 tiny bit, of course.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Odisan