Immigration rules led me to attempt suicide, says long term Belgian expat

[orchis]

After only 3 months in Belgium he had his social security and health coverage back on track, without having contributed the previous 10 years; that's very generous of his country.

Belgium has provisions for people without income from work (either unemployment benefits or living wages at the welfare office -ocmw/cpas-), they have also instances actively assisting job search, lodging search, psychological help, social reintegration from zero (and even assisted suicide).
Being in mental disarray it is very hard to find your way through bureaucracy but him
being computer savvy and after two years back there I don't understand why he is still 'living in the streets'.

[geriatrickid]

22 hours ago, hansnl said:

In hunting expats away, and the country losing a lot of foreign funds coming in, yes, they are on the right track.

Coupled with the nearly daily razzias, the ever more difficult rules and regulations, yes, other countries will step in gladly.

The subject of the  "loss of funds" has been discussed on multiple threads previously. It has been demonstrated that the loss of 1,000-5,000 economically marginal foreigners is quickly offset by the presence of short term visitors who spend in week what these foreigners will spend in 1-3 months of their stay. This is not a put down to anyone, because I too am watching my satangs. The Thai baht vs my  currency is painful for me, as has been the increased cost of living, so I do understand the pain some are experiencing.

 

Your point on the rules and regulations  as they relate to quality long term foreigners is valid and I expect that everyone agrees. However, I do caution that the two issues should not be  mixed as they are very different. We will all benefit when some of the marginal people who sit around on the stoop of 7-11 chugging Leos, or  scamming folks, or who are mentally unfit are  removed.

 

[Mark mark]

14 hours ago, Mark mark said:

Well report it as such ? Not Visa rules Problems. .... 

.... Yes well my Dog Died, Sorry, and that is the truth, ... at 18:00 last night, by the car, waiting for me to take him to the vet this morning ... He was Old, ... The Thais were just going to let him go any way !!! you know TIT re animals, and well, some times even Humans ! ? ) ...... but well, I should have done it 10 days ago .... I do not let my Animals just Die in Pain, .... still I did not even know if there was a trust worthy Vet in this town back then ... so I Googled Mapped Animal Hospital, and yes there is one ... So I drove in, and they talk the same good way ... a Good Young Man. .... I might have cost about 600B to Maybe ? Save him. ? ..... "Next time", the good young vet says ! ??? .... And I promised not to be so lazy and slow to get there next time. !

 

... Any way, Sorry that this made me realisticly Objective, (I think) having also been to he Immigration Dept, on the way to the vet, ....  But unfortunately, lacking in Empathy at the time of there Posts ...  Sorry. ....

 

... Still my Theme is Echoed by many other people here I see,  ... .  So it can remain the same. ... Sorry, but these rules re the money have not changed that much, ...  and the spirit of it is still the same !!! ....   It is now that they just are going to enforce the rules, that have already been there, just often just circumnavigated  (Like I used to do with the embassy letter) ...  or basically just flouted with corrupt agents apparently, ... Which I do not and never will do.

 

Like you do not have to leave the country, you just have to obey the rules, like they were intended to be obeyed ? ... And if you are too old and poor, to be able to work it out, ... Sorry. .... But sounds like you were lucky to get here in the first place, .... and on the upside you probably have been getting away with flouting the rules, for some years now, bad luck it just had to end some time ....

 

Like they are getting the Scam call center trash out, which is just GREAT !!! ... (My Auntie got Scammed for $800 AUD I think ? in Melbourne, .... and she is an Ex-school teacher, ... so they were smart, the "Help us to catch these Bastard Scammers" Scam, ...  a quite effective and dangerous one,  .... the money went to the Philippines I believe.)  and here they are getting some of the Gangsters, ... and then the Over stayers. ....  No reason why they should not tighten up on Retirement Visas either !!! ....   If just about every one seems to have been Breaking the rules re getting them also ?

 

You Previously were supposed to have this money in the bank, for 3 mths any way !!! ... So if you HAVE been Obeying the law, ... well where is it now ? ... And if you have not, ... well then sorry, ... But it IS good that THEY ARE starting to get smart I think !!!

 

... Like my Own country, Australia SHOULD BE !!! ...  Like Millions (Well probably about 3 to 400,000 maybe ? ) of Illegal Immigrates there also, who just Flew in, and just over stayed their Visas ! ... and they all have just disappeared in to the Cash Economy ! ... As well, the Polies will never agree on, ...  or make up their mind on very much ... re "People" .... a very emotive issue to both sides.

 

The off shore processing of Boat people, being the only bit they currently at least, agree on as well, it HAS worked so well, ... for stopping the boat people, thousands of them having drowned previously,  and it has stopped those corrupt people smugglers at least.  .... though not stopping at all, the huge majority, who just fly in and then over stay, ... so well, Thailand is not the only country now with this problem, ... though maybe just maybe one, that is doing something about it.

[lamyai3]

4 minutes ago, Mark mark said:

You Previously were supposed to have this money in the bank, for 3 mths any way !!! ... So if you HAVE been Obeying the law, ... well where is it now ? ... And if you have not, ... well then sorry, ... But it IS good that THEY ARE starting to get smart I think !!!

Way too much mouthing off on here by people who don't seem to understand what the rules were before and how they've now been changed. The 800k seasoning money was always fully available to cash out as income, emergency medical expenses or anything else for nine months of the year, and many used it this way.

 

For those using the income method it has never previously been required to transfer in more monthly income than a person needed to live on from overseas. This remains true for the many countries' citizens that haven't had their embassy letters stopped. 

[Mark mark]

7 hours ago, StevieAus said:

Great post Mark Mark my views exactly people come here knowing the rules then want to circumvent the system, The same with the border runs people trying to live permenantly on tourist visas then screaming when the rules are enforced

I have used the embassy document for quite a few years but could prove that I had the required amount coming into a Thai bank

account.

It was a convenient system spoiled by those referred to above.

I have added a post on the rules in Belgium for tourists they can ban overstayers as well.

Thanks StevieAus, ... Nice to see the good intelligence, as well a a bit of Sympathy, coming out in this one, ! ... (Why they Fielded it like it was Fielded I guess, like just a little ThaiVisa fishing expedition ?)  ... Yes On On, ..but yes also, ...Keeping my Fingers Crossed.

 

Ps I had the Income, so I was not Lying at the Embassy, ...  but well, it was not a petition ! so hard to document, or trace. I AM finding the ..Just put 800,000 in the bank at the relevant time, a lot easier actually, though, getting a letter from the bank, confirming you cash, is very important it must be remembered) ... But my Bank is only 200m from my Migration Dept !!! ...  Who are well, REALLY GOOD Thais also !!! ... Like why we all came here right !!! ??? ... (Not to just drink Beer and screw younger Woman Right ??? - Har har ...) .... Mark mark

[ballpoint]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 11:10 AM, Kwasaki said:

Out of interest what are rules of stay there if you know, it may help some.

You can live in Laos as long as you like, visa free.  All you need to do is to show immigration that you have a view of the sea from your window.

[ballpoint]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 2:08 PM, hansnl said:

In hunting expats away, and the country losing a lot of foreign funds coming in, yes, they are on the right track.

Coupled with the nearly daily razzias, the ever more difficult rules and regulations, yes, other countries will step in gladly.

Yes, Vietnam and Cambodia are almost going to war over who can attract the most whining, penny pinching, skin flints.

 

And, as for bringing foreign funds in, from what I can see, most posts on the many threads about this are from people who are either trying to avoid keeping money in a Thai bank, or finding ways to send the money out again as soon as possible.

[balo]

5 hours ago, orchis said:

Being in mental disarray it is very hard to find your way through bureaucracy but him
being computer savvy and after two years back there I don't understand why he is still 'living in the streets'.

Because he is mentally ill. he needs help from professionals. He is in a mental hospital now according to an earlier post , so he should be in good hands. 

[Mark mark]

13 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Way too much mouthing off on here by people who don't seem to understand what the rules were before and how they've now been changed. The 800k seasoning money was always fully available to cash out as income, emergency medical expenses or anything else for nine months of the year, and many used it this way.

 

For those using the income method it has never previously been required to transfer in more monthly income than a person needed to live on from overseas. This remains true for the many countries' citizens that haven't had their embassy letters stopped. 

Yes OK Lines Brother, .... Yes, pushing the buttons on my Calculator, I get the new rules are equivalent to loosing the use of 600,000 bart for 12 Mths, ...  while Previously it was only 200,000. ... So yes, for people living close to the edge, this probably would make a difference. ...  Still, the original 800,000 had to be replaced every year under the Old scheme. ...  So well, by truly, not having to spend it, is the only way you would really have profited by the Old system. (So how as a foreigner, do you live in Thailand, with out having to spend any thing ???) .... So I think, that Possibly the spirit of the exercise, is that they wanted you to spend it, 800,000 a Year ? ... But I am not going to have a argument with any one over that.

 

So still now, if you do not spend your Capital, it still will be there when you need to show it the next Year, the same, ...  only you have lost the use of an extra 400,000 B more, for the year ... ? ...  I am loosing on the stock market just at the moment, so well, maybe they are saving me from my self any way, as the money WILL still be there next year, ... if I do not spend it. ...

 

I was told by BBL that the savings deposit Interest is only 0.5% PA. I was also told my my Immigration dept that I needed the 800,000 in the bank 3 mths before the application, just like before. ... I told her that it only said 2 mths in the new rules, ? and she said that, that was only on the first application ? ??? .... I have not re-read the rules, and I am not going to argue with them, ... they ARE good, and it works for me now, so ... noting to do until October, ....  well other then still report every 90 days .... 

 

I am not so sure about the second part of you good lines, ... the Income method, once again I suspect that they would have preferred that you spent the Income that you claimed to be earning, like in the Thai situation, it would not be unrealistic to expect them to think this, like rather than just providing a Cheap Sex, and not so cheap Beer environment, for one and all for free !!! .... Charge something for it ? .....

 

I remember putting down how much I earnt in a Year, but well, a Lot of that would have been earnt out side Thailand, and well, stayed there, as you say, ... so well, I suspect that they really wanted you to have brought the money in to the country, not just stock piled it out side ! ? ... Like they were looking for a pension really, wern't they, to be paid in to a Thai bank, and used, or kept here right ? ...

 

You do remember that you had to go to the Thai Was it the Home department, the Interior dept, ? out on On Wittaya Rd, .... The place where the Thais have to get their own passports, ... and you had to pay a service fee, and then get your letter from your Embassy, verified ! ? ... It took you most of the afternoon ...  Did you have to do this ? I did. ... and I always wondered how they did it, my Income being in shares and stocks, so well, difficult to track or prove !!! ... But well they verified me every time any way !!! ... Like if they did not, ...  it then would be implying that my Embassy signed something that was NOT true. Right ? (Well, I could have forged it I guess, and then it would only be me, that thy were checking up on I suppose, .... )  ...

 

So well, Anyway !!! .... I now AM much MUCH happier just doing the 800,000 in the bank 6 mths shuffle, like having my bank 200m from my Immigration Dept is the real clincher in that I think.

 

So Any way yes, you are right, on bottom line dollars and cents, it is worse now, and by quite a lot on the local scale of things. ....  But well, I think that they are just changing things in to what they had originally wanted, in the spirit of the arrangements, ... but every one was getting around it. ...  So well, yes It is unfortunate for some, but also not Morally a hit either, as well they are just asking you for what they wanted before, but WE previously, could avoid it right ? ... Like legally. ...

 

So well now I wonder if the Thai immigration office, will check any of the letters from the embassies, and if the persons have Lied about heir Income, and the embassy just signed it, ... will they be charged ??? Like the embassies that stopped the letters did not do it for nothing ! ... They did it so not to place them selves in legal danger I am sure, and well, I think the Thais actually wrote to them and told them this if I remember correctly, they wanted the letter CHECKED, not just signed !!! So the embassies just said, "We can not afford to do that", like just imagine the arguments, with stock and share Income like mine !!! ... So they said, "Sorry We can not afford this, so we will not issue the letters", well Statutory Declarations I think they legally were termed. And by not checking hem it DID leave them open to ??? Legal action, for signing something that may NOT have been true ? ... 

 

...  So well, role on the 800,000 shuffle, and only a 200 m walk to the bank to get the letter of verification !!!

[utalkin2me]

People who start off by saying "I do not do drugs or drink" probably do drugs and drink. 

[ozmeldo]

On 2/8/2019 at 10:18 AM, silverhawk_usa said:

I have never believed in the term "attempted suicide".  It either is suicide or not. If you really want to, it isn't difficult.  I call them attempts at attention.  Which is truly what he needed.  Some attention and help.   Next case......

There's an old saying, women fake it for sympathy and attention. Men do it.

 

So what does he propose? Special rules for snowflake? Belgium dole money wired to him monthly? Gofundme?

 

Totally self absorbed. He belongs back in Belgium, certainly not here.

[ozmeldo]

1 hour ago, balo said:

Because he is mentally ill. he needs help from professionals. He is in a mental hospital now according to an earlier post , so he should be in good hands. 

Great. We can all sleep better tonight.

 

Social Justice 1

Evil Bastards 0

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, ballpoint said:

You can live in Laos as long as you like, visa free.  All you need to do is to show immigration that you have a view of the sea from your window.

Do they skyscrapers that high.

[albertik]

Not to stray to far from the OP, but I think a lot of these new enforcements i.e. elimination of the income affidavits and the post seasoning of 800K, came as a result of too many people trying to game the system and then having the audacity to boast about it in an open forum, as well as many who could not stand to see some people easily getting the aforementioned affidavit when they themselves could not.

[mike787]

BIG BABY!  True scum! NO balls...please remove himself from the gene pool....

[SteveK]

10 hours ago, ballpoint said:

You can live in Laos as long as you like, visa free.  All you need to do is to show immigration that you have a view of the sea from your window.

Well then just build a house on a steep hill and buy a telescope.

[Bkkthebest]

[[

He told the Nation that in 2015 after being a "law abiding citizen" in Thailand for ten years that his panic attacks meant that he could barely leave the house. He managed to go to 7/11 in the middle of the night but a visit to immigration was out of the question.

]] 

 

How can you be a law abiding foreigner (not citizen) while you were overstaying in not-your-motherland? 

Edited February 10, 2019 by Bkkthebest

[KamalaRider]

On 2/8/2019 at 9:42 AM, NickokasH said:

I'm the author of this article printed in The Nation and I just want to clarify a few things.

 

I moved to Thailand at the age of 31. Up until then, I had always worked in the IT field. Upon arriving in Thailand, I started an IT consulting firm and then moved on to become a freelancer (no WP necessary there, at least according to one of the honchos from immigration.

 

I never had any mental issues until 2014, when I fell into a deep depression and started suffering from acute agoraphobia. I stopped working at that time and started living on my savings. I left my nice condo in the Silom area and moved to a concrete box in Udomsuk to save costs.

 

Things started going better in 2016, which is why I decided to fix my legal situation by going to Don Muang and leaving the country.

 

Once in Vietnam, I didn't know anyone, all my friends had been left behind in Thailand. I felt utterly alone and swallowed 3.5gr of codeine, which, unfortunately, did not kill me.

 

One of my friends contacted the Belgian embassy which pit me in touch with their consulate in Hanoi. I met the consul who oversold me the repatriation back to Belgium, saying that I was going to be taken care of, medically and financially. I agreed to take the flight back home, met representatives from the Red Cross at the airport and they dropped me in front of a homeless shelter with no money and no social security.

 

It took me 3 months to finally be eligible for social security and healthcare coverage. In the meantime, I was staying in a shelter for the first time of my life. The first night I spent there, two guys threw another bloke out a second floor window because of an argument. 

 

Since then, my mental situation has deteriorated. Two years of living out of shelters will do that to someone's especially someone who's always had a stable life. I have no family left so getting help from a third party was not an option.

 

The past two years, I have gone through hell. I have now been in a mental hospital for the past three months and have started the process to formally request euthanasia, which thankfully is legal in Belgium even for psychiatric ailments.

 

None of this would have happened has I been allowed to stay in Thailand. I 2qs ready to work again and had a friend network that was able to help me.

 

Again, like I said in my letter to the Nation, I understand the need for immigration laws. But, like the recent changes to the immigration laws for retirees, I think they could be applied more humanely.

 

Have you found out what the cause is to your mental state and what started it? 

In my opinion, the society of doctors aren't interested in causes, only quick fixes with pills, although, short term could be necessary.

I do hope you are feeling better now and wish a happy long life for you. 

 

[KhunFred]

If the Thai government thought that getting tough on immigration would cause more farang suicides, they would be a hundred times as tough as they are now. I'm surprised they have been as lenient as they have. Farangs are as popular as smallpox here. 

[KamalaRider]

On 2/9/2019 at 12:17 PM, utalkin2me said:

People who start off by saying "I do not do drugs or drink" probably do drugs and drink. 

I never do drugs and drink very seldom, does that make me a druggie and a drinker(alcoholic?)? 

 

[Vacuum]

16 minutes ago, KamalaRider said:

I never do drugs and drink very seldom, does that make me a druggie and a drinker(alcoholic?)? 

 

Why do you separate alcohol from drugs?

[Speedhump]

8 hours ago, Vacuum said:

Why do you separate alcohol from drugs?

Because everyone does? As the song goes: "don't drink, don't smoke, what do you do?". ????