So, just when you thought everything was going well......

As posted in a previous article, I am currently trying to convert a retirement to a marriage visa

due mainly to the poor AUD to Baht rates and new rules. I simply do want to bring any money over at this stage when I have

over 400k sitting in Thailand.

 

All forms submitted.

All interviews done without issue.

Forms then sent to Khon Kaen for approval.

 

Not only have they denied my marriage visa, they will also not even let me renew my retirement visa, which I have had for over 6 years.

This is where is gets crazy....

 

First off they say that as I do not have 400k in a Thai bank account, I do not qualify.

When I mentioned that I have over a 70k deposit per month in my Australian account, thereby negating this, they said that as the Australian Embassy no longer 

issues proof, the statutory declaration was not valid.

I pointed out that the stat dec was issued before the 7th January and was a binding legal document.

Phone calls to KK immigration, (this happened a lot).

Oh no, there is no proof that you actually have the money, they claimed....no need..Australian Embassy provides a notary service only and is not allowed 

to verify what is claimed on a stat. dec......more calls to KK immigration.

They wanted me to leave Thailand, get an O visa and the go through the process of a a normal marriage application, ( I no longer have a valid Thai visa)

As my previous retirement visa has now expired, I am not prepared to try and leave the country to come back in and start again.

 

I informed them that the stat dec was a legal document that they could not dismiss.

Another call to KK immigration.

Here is where it gets crazy.

They object to the fact that, on my stat dec, I have said "money deposited" and not pension or income.

I informed them that I do not have a pension, and that the wording I have used for the last 6 years of retirement visa, "deposit", means the same as income.

So, they have asked me to contact the Australian Embassy and see if they will witness a signature on a stat dec, that uses the phrase income instead of deposit.

They have been informed that the Embassy will no longer witness stat decs. but they it appears they are not listening.

So....keeping my cool..I asked  them if they were refusing my retirement/marriage extension because of one word. They just smiled...it seems yes.

 

How <deleted> bizarre.

 

At this point I asked for Big Jokes phone number, I did not have it on the phone with me.

I told them that Big Joke said if you have a problem to give him a call, and I that certainly that I had a problem. Two other IO's were then called in

Another call to KK.

They want me to go to KK to sort this out, and I refused saying that to reject a visa application based on one word in a document was ridiculous and that, if I went anywhere it, would be Thai Immigration Bangkok, (this was said most politely)

 

To me, this all beggars belief.

The local IO now saying this has nothing to do with her and that it is a KK issue, and that KK are saying I need to get another stat dec, (that most likely will not be issued), that reflects the terminology they will accept. Failing this, I have to start again.

 

 

However, as I am a pedantic SOB, I will not let this go without fighting back

So, please, if anyone has the Line or phone number that BJ released, I would appreciate it being made available.

 

So lets keep this in perspective.

If push comes to shove, I will just start again, but I cannot believe how Immigration just expected me to accept their decision and acquiesce.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where did you apply and what has Khon Kaen got to do with it?

Perhaps get your bank statement notorised and legalized by your foreign office and the Thai embassy in Australia, together with income source entitlement, if from a pension (and if not fragmented)?

Pity the 400k THB you have was not sitting in a Thai Bank though...?

I'm confused, you say you have over 400k sitting in Thailand but the immigration say that you don't have 400k in a Thai bank?

 

Is the money you have here in cash?

 

I'm off to do my marriage extension tomorrow, I get this horrible feeling that they are going to find something wrong. 

17 minutes ago, nahkit said:

I get this horrible feeling that they are going to find something wrong. 

Hire an agent.

2 hours ago, tilaceer said:

Oh no, there is no proof that you actually have the money, they claimed....no need..Australian Embassy provides a notary service only and is not allowed 

to verify what is claimed on a stat. dec

This is actually true. People here assumed that if they got this document when the embassy still issued this, they could still use it for their next extension, but i think nobody official ever confirmed this.

They could of course just accept it, but it looks like they want to push you to use an agent so they get money

 

2 hours ago, tilaceer said:

when I have over 400k sitting in Thailand.

If you have 400k in Thailand, why don't you just show this? No need for the income method.

Khon Kaen immigration have the final say on marriage visa's for this area.
The 400K is not in my Thai bank account as of yet, it is cash. Was just using the 65k in my Aus account as I have always done.
If you obtained the stat dec before the 7th, you can still use it.
TI are now saying that using the stat dec is not the problem, but the wording on it is the issue, which is ridiculous.

9 hours ago, Justin Side said:

Where did you apply and what has Khon Kaen got to do with it?

It is not the Khon Kaen immigration office he is having problems with. It is Immigration Division 4 headquarters there that has to approve his extension based upon marriage.

3 hours ago, tilaceer said:

The 400K is not in my Thai bank account as of yet, it is cash. Was just using the 65k in my Aus account as I have always done.
If you obtained the stat dec before the 7th, you can still use it.
TI are now saying that using the stat dec is not the problem, but the wording on it is the issue, which is ridiculous.

I can see Division 4's point about the wording. You need to prove your income not money in a bank in Australia.

I think you are in a losing battle with them.

I suggest you do what they said to do. Make a trip to Vientiane or Savannakhet to get a single entry non-o visa based upon marriage. Then either start brings at least 40k baht into a Thai bank account or deposit 400k in the bank and leave it there for 2 months before applying for ant another extension. If you needed more time to show the income or money in the bank you could get a 60 day extension to visit your wife of the 90 day entry from the visa.

would you mind reporting back on what BJ had to say about it all ????

12 hours ago, tilaceer said:

Forms then sent to Khon Kaen for approval.

If you're near KK, why not a trip to Suvannakhet for a 1 year multi entry Non-o VISA, 5000bht, no financials.

1 hour ago, vinniekintana said:

The OP should have put the 400k in the bank for a good 3 months before the conversion

Rocket science?

I would rather take UJ advice about 2 months, not 3 as you claim.

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I can see Division 4's point about the wording. You need to prove your income not money in a bank in Australia.

I think you are in a losing battle with them.

I suggest you do what they said to do. Make a trip to Vientiane or Savannakhet to get a single entry non-o visa based upon marriage. Then either start brings at least 40k baht into a Thai bank account or deposit 400k in the bank and leave it there for 2 months before applying for ant another extension. If you needed more time to show the income or money in the bank you could get a 60 day extension to visit your wife of the 90 day entry from the visa.

I have used this exact wording for 6 years without issue.

They can see on the bank statement it is income.

As an update, I have approached the Australian Embassy and asked for a one off stat dec as this is urgent, but so far they are saying "we understand but do not issue them anymore" A stamp and a signature and all is resolved, but no.

23 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If you're near KK, why not a trip to Suvannakhet for a 1 year multi entry Non-o VISA, 5000bht, no financials.

Does that work for retirement or just marriage?

You do as they say, you can whine if you wish, but you have your extension.

 

Or :

 

You don't do as they wish, you whine, and don't have your extension.

 

Up to you.

8 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Does that work for retirement or just marriage?

Only marriage - and need to take original marriage certificate/copy and copy of spouse home register and spouse ID card (all copies signed by spouse).  

Edited February 12, 20197 yr by lopburi3

7 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Does that work for retirement or just marriage?

Most reports are for marriage. 
I have seen a few reports of the ME version for retirement, but you do need financials for that.  I would plan on possibly only receiving a single-entry for retirement.

 

 

17 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

You do as they say, you can whine if you wish, but you have your extension.

 

Or :

 

You don't do as they wish, you whine, and don't have your extension.

 

Up to you.

He is not 'whining' as you have ignorantly put it.

 

He is asking for advice and help on a matter that may affect other people in a similar position to himself.

 

Some replies might also assist those who find themselves in such a quandary because of these new regulations. It's an example of why forums such as this one exist.

 

You may also need advice one day. Will you also be 'whining' when you seek it.

 

 

1 minute ago, yogi100 said:

Will you also be 'whining'

 

19 years full time in Thailand, I have learned to accept/comply in order to be allowed to stay here.

 

If Immigration, police, authorities... tell me to do something, I do it,

and whine to my Thai wife about it.

 

Out of experience I know one can not win against them.

 

But one have always the choice not to comply and leave.

 

The grade of compliance is of course different from one person to another.

 

 

 

Quote

Tilaceer said:

TI are now saying that using the stat dec is not the problem, but the wording on it is the issue, which is ridiculous.

Apparently this issue surfaced several years ago, as the wording on the US income statement changed. The first quote below is how the income statements of several years ago read:

Quote

I also affirm that I receive US$ _________________ every month from the United States Government and/or other sources.

Then, the wording changed to:

Quote

I affirm that I reside at ____________________________________________________________________
and that I have an income of U.S. $ _________________________ every month.

Note, the first quote only mentions receiving "US $xxxx" from sources in the US. But the newer version specifically states "income." What caused this change? A decent guess is that Immigration came to the conclusion that "income" denoted a more stable source of continuing money. Under the original wording, non income sources of dollars, like drawing down your savings account, would qualify. Under the newer wording, this probably would not satisfy Immigration -- unless, maybe, if you bought an immediate pay annuity with your savings account funds......

 

Anyhow, under the still emerging new rules, will Immigration be happy with just seeing any old cash flow pop into your Thai bank account every month? Or will they want to see evidence of "income," to preclude such cash flow from being from Las Vegas winnings or a gift from Grandma....... From what I've read, already CM is interested in seeing that your cash flow is "income."

12 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

Thanks - I will use this to inform about corrupt IO at counter 7, Jomtien Immigration

36 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

19 years full time in Thailand, I have learned to accept/comply in order to be allowed to stay here.

 

If Immigration, police, authorities... tell me to do something, I do it,

and whine to my Thai wife about it.

 

Out of experience I know one can not win against them.

 

But one have always the choice not to comply and leave.

 

The grade of compliance is of course different from one person to another.

 

 

 

Where have I not complied ?

I have used the same verbage for 6 years without issue. Everything they asked for was suppied.

The fact that they changed their reason for refusal a few times seems to indicate to me that they realise they have made a mistake and are not willing to admit it. Especially in light of the new option they have given me, which I will provide here if succesful.

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Most reports are for marriage. 
I have seen a few reports of the ME version for retirement, but you do need financials for that.  I would plan on possibly only receiving a single-entry for retirement.

 

 

If your home bank and income is accepted this option seems quite do able, rather than home country Embassy then?

14 hours ago, tilaceer said:

They object to the fact that, on my stat dec, I have said "money deposited" and not pension or income.

Isn't it supposed to be a standard form like a USA income declaration affidavit form? Did you use the same wording in the past also which was approved in the past. May be you can show them a copy of the past stat dec where exact same wording is used.

Edited February 12, 20197 yr by onera1961

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

You do as they say, you can whine if you wish, but you have your extension.

 

Or :

 

You don't do as they wish, you whine, and don't have your extension.

 

Up to you.

Like pissing into the wind. For me as a non-native English speaker, Deposit and Income have a different meaning. I can understand their point. But what am I to say, just keep on fighting ????

57 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Apparently this issue surfaced several years ago, as the wording on the US income statement changed.

As said above several years ago the form was changed to "income" at US Embassy (advised immigration would not accept old form) and had to fill out a new form to comply as had copied the previous years.  In view of that do not believe you have a winning hand so may be time to fold.

54 minutes ago, tilaceer said:

Where have I not complied ?

I have used the same verbage for 6 years without issue. Everything they asked for was suppied.

The fact that they changed their reason for refusal a few times seems to indicate to me that they realise they have made a mistake and are not willing to admit it. Especially in light of the new option they have given me, which I will provide here if succesful.

The problem is like many times in Thailand. They not always follow the rules. and therefore ignored the wrong wording before.

Now they check accordingly to the rules and it is now no longer accepted. So before they were only very nice.. 

4 hours ago, vinniekintana said:

The OP should have put the 400k in the bank for a good 3 months before the conversion

Rocket science?

why would you at between 18-22 bt to the aus dollar

1 hour ago, tilaceer said:

The fact that they changed their reason for refusal a few times seems to indicate to me that they realise they have made a mistake and are not willing to admit it.

If they made a mistake do you expect they recognize it ? or/and apologize ?

 

It's up  to the expat to adapt to whatever they say, if he wish to stay here.

 

This is the sad reality.

 

The final choice is still ours,

however don't expect they care at all, if you move or " threat " to. 

Edited February 12, 20197 yr by luckyluke