4 hours ago, stephenterry said:

I doubt anyone on here, or the overwhelming majority of the UK's population would comprehend the many hundred pages of the Withdrawal agreement, as it appears to me to be too complex to come to any rational reasoning as to why Brexit would ultimately benefit the UK.

 

By pursuing the 'will of the people' to the detriment of all, the UK government is about to destroy the economy, and further devalue the pound, in the vain blue-sky thinking that new trade agreements will offset the damage. Not that there will be many in place after Brexit according to government sources, at a running cost of billions of income lost.

 

And don't mention immigration - it has been mooted by government sources that immigration figures will significantly rise after Brexit, not from EU citizens but from everywhere else outside the EU. 

 

I have reason to believe that Brexit will be renamed Britanic 2 in due course, with the UK hitting the EU iceberg on 29 March - or on whatever date the withdrawal finally takes place. 

 

 

 

It's easy to get access to the Spectator link, at no cost, I provided which provides a detailed rebuttal of the 40 claims made in the blog. It is telling none of the Leavers have made any effort to access factual info for a reply, but rather rely on rhetoric / cliche - minds firmly closed.

11 hours ago, tebee said:

Her approach to Brexit is daily looking less like a coherent policy and more like the despairing tactics of the Imperial Japanese Navy in late 1944, resorting increasingly to Kamikaze strikes. There is no way that this ends well.

 

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87146

end  well?

 

Japanese navy down the drain, peace in the Pacific restored, for a while

 

UK to follow?

 

It's easy to get access to the Spectator link, at no cost, I provided which provides a detailed rebuttal of the 40 claims made in the blog. It is telling none of the Leavers have made any effort to access factual info for a reply, but rather rely on rhetoric / cliche - minds firmly closed.

Did you read the Spectator responses to the govt rebuttals? Remainers half a job that suits their own agenda.


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2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

I've snipped your post, and hope this is ok.

 

"Not sure what the evidence for that is, but supposing that does happen, if British people don't like it they can vote on election day for whatever party campaigns to reduce immigration, and the government will no longer be able to blame the EU's open door immigration policy if they don't do anything about it".

 

Exactly.

 

Edit - Re. the rest of your post, I'd prefer that the brit. government started to fund places at universities for brit. students in the shortage fields.

careful with that DD,

government interfering with and planning what young people should study is somewhat dangerous

it is very big brother, not a society I would enjoy - me thinks

 

make it facile for young people to study what they fancy, don't interfere

 

13 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Why would any parliamentarian give a damn about that loser Cameron? 

I assume that's a rhetorical question? But to be clear, I wasn't talking about the man, rather the pledges he made as Prime Minister before and after the referendum.

14 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

I assume that's a rhetorical question? But to be clear, I wasn't talking about the man, rather the pledges he made as Prime Minister before and after the referendum.

I wasn’t talking about the Person Cameron either, but the prime minister Cameron. And my question remains, and yes, it’s a rethorical question: why would any parliamentarian give a damn about what a prime minister promised? 

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I wasn’t talking about the Person Cameron either, but the prime minister Cameron. And my question remains, and yes, it’s a rethorical question: why would any parliamentarian give a damn about what a prime minister promised? 

And I thought I was a cynic!

20 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I wasn’t talking about the Person Cameron either, but the prime minister Cameron. And my question remains, and yes, it’s a rethorical question: why would any parliamentarian give a damn about what a prime minister promised? 

Testament to the warped logic being employed for the sake of remaining in the EU, that we have people keen and eager for promises made by a Prime Minister to mean nothing. Until of course the day a promise is made that you want stuck to.

 

 

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Did you read the Spectator responses to the govt rebuttals? Remainers half a job that suits their own agenda.


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No wasn't aware there was a rebuttal to the rebuttal. A link would be constructive, but hope it's not just subjective opinions...

Edited February 14, 20197 yr by simple1

46 minutes ago, simple1 said:

No wasn't aware there was a rebuttal to the rebuttal. A link would be constructive, but hope it's not just subjective opinions...

I have located the response. Have read the first seven replies and as anticipated nothing more than subjective opinion / speculation. Therefore haven't read the entire reply as waste of time.

On 2/13/2019 at 2:20 AM, stephenterry said:

Yes. Mainly because my life span is short-term.

A good reply, in that it confirms the fact that most remoaners, are simple 

SELFISH people, who are not in the least concerned, in regards to their fellow citizens.

Devastating critique of both of the current major parties - 

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/the-corbyn-crack-up/amp

 

To say that the May administration is ‘the worst government anyone can remember’ is to abuse the English language. It isn’t a government but a collection of factions so far apart I am surprised they can stay in the same cabinet.

 

Every MP I spoke to talked of the stress of dealing with a party dominated by tiny-minded people in the grip of paranoid fantasies, the stupidity of Corbyn and his supporters is their least-discussed feature, but it is the one that hurts the politicians who must live with it the most.

 

On 2/13/2019 at 1:05 PM, Loiner said:

And, of course, the UK will agree to pay £40bn to receive all of these ‘privileges’. (Article 138)

No it won't we can do what Trump does, get out and get on with it and save some more dosh and get out of NATO, get rid of the ponces should be the new moto. 

Watching now on Euronews. Saw May bleating the same rubbish she has always bleated.

I live in Thailand and the citizens here have a staged television lecture from the Junta PM where most tv stations are held captive to his pleads.

I see little difference. Most Thai people do not watch tv at this time.

I fail to see ms May agenda. No one appears to want her deal including her own party.

Yet they want her to remain PM.

May must be the stooge, no one wants to take control.

Where is a Churchill when you need him/her.

She should resign. Someone must be paying her big bucks to stay.

And if Corbin could stop hugging trees and become "presidential", maybe there would be hope

6 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I wasn’t talking about the Person Cameron either, but the prime minister Cameron. And my question remains, and yes, it’s a rethorical question: why would any parliamentarian give a damn about what a prime minister promised? 

 

 

The electorate certainly give a damn. 

 

People give a damn about what other people promised........at least in my world they do.

1 hour ago, Prissana Pescud said:

Watching now on Euronews. Saw May bleating the same rubbish she has always bleated.

I live in Thailand and the citizens here have a staged television lecture from the Junta PM where most tv stations are held captive to his pleads.

I see little difference. Most Thai people do not watch tv at this time.

I fail to see ms May agenda. No one appears to want her deal including her own party.

Yet they want her to remain PM.

May must be the stooge, no one wants to take control.

Where is a Churchill when you need him/her.

She should resign. Someone must be paying her big bucks to stay.

And if Corbin could stop hugging trees and become "presidential", maybe there would be hope

Put yourself in the place of an ambitious politician, especially now "the easiest deal in history" has been shown to be absolute cack. You moan on from the sidelines but don't make too many waves until Brexit happens. You then throw May under the bus.

Isn't it obvious, really?

1 hour ago, LucysDad said:

The electorate certainly give a damn. 

 

People give a damn about what other people promised........at least in my world they do.

The electorate should know the constitution. 

 

8 hours ago, rixalex said:

Testament to the warped logic being employed for the sake of remaining in the EU, that we have people keen and eager for promises made by a Prime Minister to mean nothing. Until of course the day a promise is made that you want stuck to.

Forgive me that I appreciate parliamentary representative democracy over dictatorship. 

1 hour ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

The electorate certainly give a damn. 

 

People give a damn about what other people promised........at least in my world they do.

Let us play a hand of poker. If I lose, I promise you the world's oil reserves. But if I do lose, good luck with collecting on my promise or in any subsequent lawsuit you may choose to file against me.

Cameron made a promise that was not his to keep. It became null and void after he promptly slung his hook upon losing his gamble. Take it up with him.

7 minutes ago, baboon said:

Put yourself in the place of an ambitious politician, especially now "the easiest deal in history" has been shown to be absolute cack. You moan on from the sidelines but don't make too many waves until Brexit happens. You then throw May under the bus.

Isn't it obvious, really?

Yes, totally agree. My post was long but I proposed who would take the reins.

And what position do they take when the deadline runs out (which is what I believe Ms May tactic is)

She has led a controlled shambles. She should resign and then let all the ambitious politicians to declare their hand. Because she is done,gone.

Let the ones that want to throw her under a bus declare their position. I agree with you mostly mate

2 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

Yes, totally agree. My post was long but I proposed who would take the reins.

And what position do they take when the deadline runs out (which is what I believe Ms May tactic is)

She has led a controlled shambles. She should resign and then let all the ambitious politicians to declare their hand. Because she is done,gone.

Let the ones that want to throw her under a bus declare their position. I agree with you mostly mate

If you mean as of this moment, yes, it would spice things up somewhat. And the resulting shambles would play straight into Labour's hands, which is fine by me.

They don't want to throw her under the bus now. They want the Brexit curtain to come down first, then do their knight in shining armour bit.

 

This isn't WWII. We face no existential threat. What we are confronted with, is a gaggle of incompetent, venal and opportunistic politicians. The same crowd who took us into this shambles and now the same crowd we hope can rescue us. Leaver or remainer, God help us...

10 minutes ago, baboon said:

If you mean as of this moment, yes, it would spice things up somewhat. And the resulting shambles would play straight into Labour's hands, which is fine by me.

They don't want to throw her under the bus now. They want the Brexit curtain to come down first, then do their knight in shining armour bit.

 

This isn't WWII. We face no existential threat. What we are confronted with, is a gaggle of incompetent, venal and opportunistic politicians. The same crowd who took us into this shambles and now the same crowd we hope can rescue us. Leaver or remainer, God help us...

The big problem with a simple referendum is that it is not obligatory.

Nor does it establish slightly opposing views.

Ask many Brits if you want to leave EU and you get a lot of conditional replies.

And most replies are uninformed as to the consequences.

I am a leaver. And I believe EU needs Britain more the Britain needs EU.

But surely a full debate can only happen if there is a vote. Not a referendum. 

A vote is true democracy, not Ms May position

59 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The electorate should know the constitution. 

 

Forgive me that I appreciate parliamentary representative democracy over dictatorship. 

 

And the people Should come before the parliamentary representatives.

Unfortunately we now have in Westminster, a group of arrogant twxats, though many of them will be history at the next G.E.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

The big problem with a simple referendum is that it is not obligatory.

Nor does it establish slightly opposing views.

Ask many Brits if you want to leave EU and you get a lot of conditional replies.

And most replies are uninformed as to the consequences.

I am a leaver. And I believe EU needs Britain more the Britain needs EU.

But surely a full debate can only happen if there is a vote. Not a referendum. 

A vote is true democracy, not Ms May position

But then round and round and round we go. I am against another referendum. Parliament needs to decide and MPs need lose their seats as a result of their constituents' outrage. From both parties and on both sides of the debate. That is, unless they are sons and daughters of bitches who only want to advance themselves. 

 

There needs to be compromise. There must be compromise, if we are not to be regarded as a basket case and treated accordingly...

29 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

And the people Should come before the parliamentary representatives.

They do. As they vote them in. If a prime minister could just dictate what those representatives who were elected by the people must do, that would obviously be the opposite of democracy. 

 

6 minutes ago, baboon said:

But then round and round and round we go. I am against another referendum. Parliament needs to decide and MPs need lose their seats as a result of their constituents' outrage. From both parties and on both sides of the debate. That is, unless they are sons and daughters of bitches who only want to advance themselves. 

 

There needs to be compromise. There must be compromise, if we are not to be regarded as a basket case and treated accordingly...

I did not say a referendum. I said a vote.

Ms May quits as a dud after she calls a national vote.

Still time before the deadline.

Unlike US which takes a circus and years to hold an election, an election can be held now if the woman holding UK to ransom quits.

And fades away as a dud. The UK government needs to realise that this is a peaceful war.

 And only an election can resolve the issues and then let the truth and counter opinions be aired

 

3 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

an election can be held now if the woman holding UK to ransom quits.

wrong...

 

Quote

The Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 sets the interval between general elections at five years. At the end of this time a new House of Commons must be elected.

However, there are two provisions that trigger an election other than at five year intervals:

a motion of no confidence is passed in Her Majesty's Government by a simple majority and 14 days elapses without the House passing a confidence motion in any new Government formed

a motion for a general election is agreed by two thirds of the total number of seats in the Commons including vacant seats (currently 434 out of 650)

The Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 provides for general elections to be held on the first Thursday in May every five years.

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/general/

She has just been defeated again...

Quote

Prime Minister Theresa May has suffered a fresh defeat in a Commons vote on her Brexit strategy by 303 to 258.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47245992

A lot of abstainers, supposedly Hard line Tory Brexiteers, well at least we know they number less than 80. 

Edited February 14, 20197 yr by Basil B

General election is the only answer, no matter what the prohibitions.

It has become a laughing stock to the world.

The only other laughing stock in the western world is Trump.

That is the same credentials May is presenting to the world.

Someone defying the will of the people.

 Wesminster System being abused by a gab fest silly person

I fail to see how general election could sort out the disagreements re Brexit,

or make the people's will clear.

 

A referendum could give clarity, but if a 2nd referendum is not desirable,

I can't see GE offering clarity.

 

Think parliament has to sweat this out.