dividend + rental income

[somchai jones]

Hi 

 

Just a quick question. 

 

I use the 65,000 baht per month income method to extend my 50+ (retirement) visa annually. I have always used company dividends as income which I know is acceptable to immigration. I also have a rental income from a property in the UK that I rent out. Is my rental income also an acceptable form of income to use for the 65,000 baht per month income method?

 

With respect, I would appreciate replies from those that know the answer rather than speculative comments.

 

Thanks.

Edited February 13, 2019 by somchai jones

[berybert]

Yes it is. It is also how I fund myself over here. As long as the money is coming in from overseas it shouldn't matter how you earn it. 

[somchai jones]

Than ks for your reply Berybert.

[DrJack54]

This will be interesting. In the many many threads where "income method" is discussed for the countries where income letter from embassies has ceased.....there is continual mention of PENSION income, social security payments etc. To me it is not clear if income from such things as rentals will be accepted by io.

[kane666]

You are asking the wrong people. There is one thread quoting an IO that states Pensions only. There is another thread quoting a (different) IO that any income is fine.

 

Ask your IO.

[LivinLOS]

I dont believe immigration cares what the source of that income is, only that it is remitted here. 

However I say again, if you bring that income into Thailand in the year it is earned, and sign and prove that, you are signing and proving a tax liability. A tax liability you may well be able to sort out due to DTAs but that is down to the person, the country of source, and time incountry per year. 

the fact these liabilities have not been pursued in the past is no guarantee of the future. 

[gk10002000]

Well, normally one would pass a lie detector test as having answered truthfully and faithfully about having income.  However, the current direction of the Thais is no matter what the income source is, one MUST make monthly deposits of at least 65,000 baht into a Thai bank account.  I myself will have income from dividends and interest, but at the moment that apparently is irrelevant to the Thais as their narrow minded approach is to simply check that one has made monthly deposits.  Now whether those deposits come from somebody simply spending down some cash holdings, borrowing, money, or whatever, in no way proves one has any sustainable future income, which was the intent of the previous laws. 

[DrJack54]

18 minutes ago, kane666 said:

You are asking the wrong people. There is one thread quoting an IO that states Pensions only. There is another thread quoting a (different) IO that any income is fine.

 

Ask your IO.

So true. Even if there is a "correct answer" to op question, that can mean very little. It depends on the different offices and in turn different io.

[mark5335]

Best to visit your local TI and ask the IO there.

[tgeezer]

Has anyone considered writing to the tax authorities in Thailand saying that retirees should be liable for tax on money they bring into the country?  

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Has anyone considered writing to the tax authorities in Thailand saying that retirees should be liable for tax on money they bring into the country?  

Why would they (xpats) be liable for tax. I bring into los about 55k aud per year. That money from rentals etc in oz is all post tax in au. All my income is declared in my annual tax return in au. 

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Why would they (xpats) be liable for tax. I bring into los about 55k aud per year. That money from rentals etc in oz is all post tax in au. All my income is declared in my annual tax return in au. 

Doesn't anyone who lives here over 6 months become liable?

Providing Oz has a tax agreement with Thailand you are probably correct, but hey, they don't take our word for it for much of anything else!

Edited February 13, 2019 by jacko45k

[indepth]

Nobody can give you an answer on here. It's up to TI in the future. Ignore the ,I don't think, what will probably , etc comments. 

[tgeezer]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Why would they (xpats) be liable for tax. I bring into los about 55k aud per year. That money from rentals etc in oz is all post tax in au. All my income is declared in my annual tax return in au. 

Have a look at post number 6, he seems to be signing declarations, suggesting that everyone should be. It isn't the first time I have seen this sort of thing. Some people are incapable of keeping life simple. 

[Lacessit]

As long as the rental income shows up in your bank book or statement with the FTT coding, there should be no problem. IO's don't care where it comes from, just evidence it is from outside Thailand.

I understand there is an issue with some Thai banks not identifying transfers with the FTT code. Bangkok Bank always does.

[KittenKong]

I have been on a retirement extension for nearly 10 years, and I retired well over 10 years ago. But I wont be getting any sort of pension for at least 4 more years.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, somchai jones said:

I also have a rental income from a property in the UK that I rent out. Is my rental income also an acceptable form of income to use for the 65,000 baht per month income method?

I assume you’re asking regarding the new way to prove income without an embassy letter.

 

There is nothing in the new document requirements to specify or prove the source of the income, As long as the money is transferred from abroad, and is =>65K, any source of income should be accepted.

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

As long as the rental income shows up in your bank book or statement with the FTT coding, there should be no problem. IO's don't care where it comes from, just evidence it is from outside Thailand.

That is not what I was told for an extension based on marriage (out here in the boonies), but they look harder for a way to block those. 

 

For retirement-based, it's fine unless they ask for "secondary documentation" - such as reported requested at less-friendly offices like Phuket and Chiang Mai.  Those requests could be a problem for any "non-pension" income sources, depending on the IO's "interpretation" of the rules (affecting non-agent applicants only, of course).

Edited February 13, 2019 by JackThompson

[indepth]

. IO's don't care where it comes from .Thanks Lacetti, i can rest easily tonight. P.S. where did u get your info from?

[owling]

Easiest way for those that have problems is return home and get your visa/extension. I just checked the australian embassy, no changes, none of this 12 monthly deposits, the fee is AUD 275 a bargain with no need for agent. Sure beats the farcical TI horror system.

[gk10002000]

11 hours ago, JackThompson said:

That is not what I was told for an extension based on marriage (out here in the boonies), but they look harder for a way to block those. 

 

For retirement-based, it's fine unless they ask for "secondary documentation" - such as reported requested at less-friendly offices like Phuket and Chiang Mai.  Those requests could be a problem for any "non-pension" income sources, depending on the IO's "interpretation" of the rules (affecting non-agent applicants only, of course).

Agree.  If you look at the wording of the last order it focuses and starts with Pension and I am sure that while the current scheme where they just look for monthly transfers could be absolutely enforced, I doubt that the actual source of the transfers will never be questioned.  Remember, the original idea of income presumed and in my opinion always intended to be interpreted as something concrete and with legs, i.e. pension, military retirement, etc.  Of course the Thais are not ignorant of rental income, probably not as fluent in investment income/dividends/interest.   The problem with showing transfers over the last 12 months is, it gives NO proof of there being any actual sustained income in the future.  A person could just be spending down some cash, and soon may be on skid row.  Or, as I am sure some people will do, is they will borrow some money to make the transfers and they will be deficit spending because they want to stay in the LOS. 

[JackThompson]

18 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

I doubt that the actual source of the transfers will never be questioned

This is completely up to the IO (and his boss).  See Chiang Mai and Phuket reports for what is possible.

[onera1961]

On 2/12/2019 at 11:44 PM, somchai jones said:

I use the 65,000 baht per month income method to extend my 50+ (retirement) visa annually. I have always used company dividends as income which I know is acceptable to immigration. I also have a rental income from a property in the UK that I rent out. Is my rental income also an acceptable form of income to use for the 65,000 baht per month income method?

If you know dividends as income is acceptable to immigration, why did you conclude rental won't be the same? TI does not care how you have earned your income. They want to see money from oversees deposited into a Thai account. You could have obtained that money by holding up a bank in your home country but TI does not care as long as it reaches a Thai bank as international transfer

Edited February 14, 2019 by onera1961

[somchai jones]

Thanks for all the replies, particularly the one from the guy that had personal experience of what I was asking.

 

Some of the other comments were 'entertaining' and made for a fun read whilst I was waiting for the kettle to boil.

[CMNightRider]

On 2/13/2019 at 2:40 PM, mark5335 said:

Best to visit your local TI and ask the IO there.

Actually, common sense would tell you this would be the best way to know for sure what immigration actually will accept.  The problem is many immigration staff are confused about other monthly sources of income too.  You can always tell an Thai Immigration Officer, you just can't tell him much ????

[William Osborne]

How do you show the 65k income...copies of bank book or online statements with the 'F##' code indicating foreign deposit .?...or you need official bank letter.....thanks

Edited February 15, 2019 by William Osborne

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, William Osborne said:

How do you show the 65k income...copies of bank book or online statements with the 'F##' code indicating foreign deposit .?...or you need official bank letter.....thanks

You need both a bank book or statement and a letter from the bank confirming you account is valid.

[gk10002000]

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 1:13 AM, onera1961 said:

If you know dividends as income is acceptable to immigration, why did you conclude rental won't be the same? TI does not care how you have earned your income. They want to see money from oversees deposited into a Thai account. You could have obtained that money by holding up a bank in your home country but TI does not care as long as it reaches a Thai bank as international transfer

TI DOES care about how you have earned your income.  Having reliable steady income always was the intent and cornerstone of allowing an expat to stay long term in Thailand.  Either have steady income of x amount or have Y amount of cash on deposit.  Over time many variations and interpretations including the current fiasco have come and gone.  I am sure this current monthly transfer only schema won't stay very long, or will have other options

[kannot]

On 2/13/2019 at 2:40 PM, mark5335 said:

Best to visit your local TI and ask the IO there.

and get his/her name for reference as different officer = different answer