Thai Citizenship

[josefbl]

Hallo , My wife and I,my wife Belgian and I Dutch citizenship ,56 and 62 age , are planning to emigrate to Thailand in 2008,in the neighbourhoud of Uttaradit.

Is it possible to apply and or obtain the Thai citizenship ?

We have been many thimes in Thailand ( North and South ) ,we love Thailand more than anything else and are both Bouddhist, and are ( trying ) to learn Thai language ,both speak and wrigthing.

Can anyone give advice conserning how to start the prosedure for obtaing the Thai citizenship,oris it not possible?????

Thanks in advance !!!!

Josef

[Axel]

Not easy, I would say and I have only one among my friends who actually obtained Thai nationality.

The basic steps, you must stay for a minimum of 3 consecutive years under the same non-imm. visa (annually extented) to become elegible for for PR (Permanent Resident).

Stay under PR for another 5 years and you might be able to apply.

This is a very rough guideline.

[tijnebijn]

Not easy, I would say and I have only one among my friends who actually obtained Thai nationality.

The basic steps, you must stay for a minimum of 3 consecutive years under the same non-imm. visa (annually extented) to become elegible for for PR (Permanent Resident).

Stay under PR for another 5 years and you might be able to apply.

This is a very rough guideline.

This is correct,above in this section you can see from Camerata how he did his PR.

You will need a lot of patience,good qualifications etc and only 100 people from one nation a year they will give it too(if any).Considering your age I think you proberly would be more interested to obtain a retirement visa.

You are from the same country as I am and you will have your benefits(AOWpensions)paid out when you move to thailand.So if you have 65K(thousand baht)a month or 800k in a thaibank,or the combination of the two.You can retire all your life here ,but have to take in consideration that when you extend,once yearly,your visa at imm,you will have to show these finances every year on.if you and your wife can manage that you will not need to be Thai,is too much a hassle.And there are many ways to stay in thailand confortably.Succes in your search how to do things.

[sonicdragon]

I might be wrong, but the OP is talking about "citizenship" - I took that to mean having Thai nationality, rather than permanent residency ? In UK immigration terms I think it's the equivalant of naturalisation/registration as a UK citizen vs Indefinite Leave to Remain. Very different things indeed, particularly in thailand, where even someone with PR needs to have a work permit to work and cannot vote.

But maybe s/he really meant residency.....

[jumnien]

There are, of course, farang that have obtained Thai citizenship. But, it is very unusual. Bill Heineke is probably the most well-known of those converting to Thai citizenship.

[Axel]

Yes, the OP talks about citizenship. To get there, however, one first has to obtain PR, as I said.

[JimmyTheMook]

Yes, the OP talks about citizenship. To get there, however, one first has to obtain PR, as I said.

If you jump thru all the hoops and get Thai citizenship does that then allow you to work in Thailand ?

[jumnien]

Of course. Thai citizens are perfectly eligible to work in Thailand. Bill Heineke works very hard.

[Axel]

You even can buy land.

[josefbl]

Not easy, I would say and I have only one among my friends who actually obtained Thai nationality.

The basic steps, you must stay for a minimum of 3 consecutive years under the same non-imm. visa (annually extented) to become elegible for for PR (Permanent Resident).

Stay under PR for another 5 years and you might be able to apply.

This is a very rough guideline.

This is correct,above in this section you can see from Camerata how he did his PR.

You will need a lot of patience,good qualifications etc and only 100 people from one nation a year they will give it too(if any).Considering your age I think you proberly would be more interested to obtain a retirement visa.

You are from the same country as I am and you will have your benefits(AOWpensions)paid out when you move to thailand.So if you have 65K(thousand baht)a month or 800k in a thaibank,or the combination of the two.You can retire all your life here ,but have to take in consideration that when you extend,once yearly,your visa at imm,you will have to show these finances every year on.if you and your wife can manage that you will not need to be Thai,is too much a hassle.And there are many ways to stay in thailand confortably.Succes in your search how to do things.

[josefbl]

Not easy, I would say and I have only one among my friends who actually obtained Thai nationality.

The basic steps, you must stay for a minimum of 3 consecutive years under the same non-imm. visa (annually extented) to become elegible for for PR (Permanent Resident).

Stay under PR for another 5 years and you might be able to apply.

This is a very rough guideline.

This is correct,above in this section you can see from Camerata how he did his PR.

You will need a lot of patience,good qualifications etc and only 100 people from one nation a year they will give it too(if any).Considering your age I think you proberly would be more interested to obtain a retirement visa.

You are from the same country as I am and you will have your benefits(AOWpensions)paid out when you move to thailand.So if you have 65K(thousand baht)a month or 800k in a thaibank,or the combination of the two.You can retire all your life here ,but have to take in consideration that when you extend,once yearly,your visa at imm,you will have to show these finances every year on.if you and your wife can manage that you will not need to be Thai,is too much a hassle.And there are many ways to stay in thailand confortably.Succes in your search how to do things.

As we want to sty " for ever " in fact for us personaly, it does not matter under wich permit we would and or may stay!!! , but the reason why we would like to change our citizenship - nationality , has to do with taxes !!!!!!

My wife and I will receive pension out of Belgium , to be exact a governemental pension and the taxes on this have to be paid in Belgian regardless wherever we are registered.The only change would be iff we bear the citizenship of the foreign country where we are living at that time !

So if we would live in Thailand we would have to pay ( very high ) income taxes in Belgium ,but ........iff we would have the Thai nationality we would not have to pay taxes in Belgium but much lower taxes in Thailand , or even no income taxes at all as we would be pensioners !

Correct me if I am wrong ! Anyway many thanks for all the reactions so far !

greetings , josef

[Briggsy]

Under Thaksin, a Chinese tycoon was granted immediate citizenship.

[samran]

Not easy, I would say and I have only one among my friends who actually obtained Thai nationality.

The basic steps, you must stay for a minimum of 3 consecutive years under the same non-imm. visa (annually extented) to become elegible for for PR (Permanent Resident).

Stay under PR for another 5 years and you might be able to apply.

This is a very rough guideline.

This is correct,above in this section you can see from Camerata how he did his PR.

You will need a lot of patience,good qualifications etc and only 100 people from one nation a year they will give it too(if any).Considering your age I think you proberly would be more interested to obtain a retirement visa.

You are from the same country as I am and you will have your benefits(AOWpensions)paid out when you move to thailand.So if you have 65K(thousand baht)a month or 800k in a thaibank,or the combination of the two.You can retire all your life here ,but have to take in consideration that when you extend,once yearly,your visa at imm,you will have to show these finances every year on.if you and your wife can manage that you will not need to be Thai,is too much a hassle.And there are many ways to stay in thailand confortably.Succes in your search how to do things.

As we want to sty " for ever " in fact for us personaly, it does not matter under wich permit we would and or may stay!!! , but the reason why we would like to change our citizenship - nationality , has to do with taxes !!!!!!

My wife and I will receive pension out of Belgium , to be exact a governemental pension and the taxes on this have to be paid in Belgian regardless wherever we are registered.The only change would be iff we bear the citizenship of the foreign country where we are living at that time !

So if we would live in Thailand we would have to pay ( very high ) income taxes in Belgium ,but ........iff we would have the Thai nationality we would not have to pay taxes in Belgium but much lower taxes in Thailand , or even no income taxes at all as we would be pensioners !

Correct me if I am wrong ! Anyway many thanks for all the reactions so far !

greetings , josef

I know nothing about Belgium and its taxes, but standard international agreements mean that taxes are based primarily on the concept of residency, so that if you live in a place for more that 183 days per year, the tax laws of that country would then apply.

As I said, I don't know, but it is something you may want to investigate.

If I am totally wrong however, you'd be better of moving to somewhere else in the EU (as is your right) and gain citizenship of another country that way. The trail is long and hard here in Thailand for citizenship, at leat 8 years if I am not mistaken versus the usual 4 or 5 in most EU states.

[Khonwan]

I know nothing about Belgium and its taxes, but standard international agreements mean that taxes are based primarily on the concept of residency, so that if you live in a place for more that 183 days per year, the tax laws of that country would then apply.

As I said, I don't know, but it is something you may want to investigate.

If I am totally wrong however, you'd be better of moving to somewhere else in the EU (as is your right) and gain citizenship of another country that way. The trail is long and hard here in Thailand for citizenship, at leat 8 years if I am not mistaken versus the usual 4 or 5 in most EU states.

Samran

AFAIK, a UK personal or company pension is always paid after deduction of taxes.

[kash]

It's kind of greedy to accept a pension from your homecountry, but not wanting to pay tax to the very same country.

[josefbl]

It's kind of greedy to accept a pension from your homecountry, but not wanting to pay tax to the very same country.

Greedy ????? I have worked aprox 45 years and I will receive aprox € 500, before tax per monthon pension.

Whom is greedy !!!! Me or the country I have worked for ?Notice that I am Dutch and NOT Belgian !!! This is one of the reasons tha we CERTANLY will emigrate to Thailand and try to avoid pay ( high ) taxes.

Belgium is one if not the highest country on income tax of the world !!!!![/b]

Maybe you understand now a little bit better why.

Sincere greetings from NOT a greedy and certanly honest man !

josef

[oooooo]

here is a simple answer: NO

sorry i was too lazy to go back to the full "reply" thing.

Edited February 26, 2007 by oooooo

[skippybangkok]

here is a simple answer: NO

sorry i was too lazy to go back to the full "reply" thing.

Agreed. Unless you got a special channel as per the chinese business man, forget citizenship. PR, not sure , guess retirement visa the only way ??

[lopburi3]

You first must face reality.

There is virtually no chance you will ever obtain Thai citizenship.

There is virtually no chance you will even be able to obtain permanent residence status (you have no work history here) and it is not obtainable from a retirement stay.

You will not even qualify for a retirement visa with the pension you describe so you would have to keep a large deposit of baht in a Thai bank account at least 3 months every year to even stay here (subject to change).

Thailand does not tax retirement money brought into the country as a matter of policy. Do not believe your request to be an exception would be greeted with much enthusiasm.

[tijnebijn]

You first must face reality.

There is virtually no chance you will ever obtain Thai citizenship.

There is virtually no chance you will even be able to obtain permanent residence status (you have no work history here) and it is not obtainable from a retirement stay.

You will not even qualify for a retirement visa with the pension you describe so you would have to keep a large deposit of baht in a Thai bank account at least 3 months every year to even stay here (subject to change).

Thailand does not tax retirement money brought into the country as a matter of policy. Do not believe your request to be an exception would be greeted with much enthusiasm.

The TV master has spoken,and everything is cleared up!!

It is just the way it is!

[josefbl]

You first must face reality.

There is virtually no chance you will ever obtain Thai citizenship.

There is virtually no chance you will even be able to obtain permanent residence status (you have no work history here) and it is not obtainable from a retirement stay.

You will not even qualify for a retirement visa with the pension you describe so you would have to keep a large deposit of baht in a Thai bank account at least 3 months every year to even stay here (subject to change).

Thailand does not tax retirement money brought into the country as a matter of policy. Do not believe your request to be an exception would be greeted with much enthusiasm.

The TV master has spoken,and everything is cleared up!!

It is just the way it is!

All apollagies acxepted !Whowever ,the pension my wife will reciefe is ( much ) higher than mine , so there is no probleme for the required deposit ( we still have " some " savings , and the total incom of both of us will be suffisant according the Thai law! So ,I presume we have to forget the citizenship and go for the permanent residance , as my wife is all ready in full pension and I in 2010, and we hope that this will be possible , or am I wrong ?

Thanks for all the advice , greetings from cold Holland , josef

[Axel]

Long comments by the Thai Embassy DC:

http://www.thaiembdc.org/consular/con_info...it/rest_pm.html

[lopburi3]

Long comments by the Thai Embassy DC:

http://www.thaiembdc.org/consular/con_info...it/rest_pm.html

That information is woefully out of date:

Last Update : April 1999

[jumnien]

Why not just live here and enjoy Thailand? Why are you interested in becoming a Thai citizen?

[Axel]

That information is woefully out of date:

Last Update : April 1999

Ooops, sorry, should have checked on that instead of just glancing through.

OK, the basics are still there.

[tijnebijn]

best Joseph,you got to take in consideration that when you and your wife come together you will need the double income requirement(1.600000 baht)to get your renewals.Like i understand it and have read from problems of other members ,concerning this.But I also read that one of you can be dependant on the other.but you both have income pensions.So maybe you should make sure you both need to deposit money,prior 3 months before application of extension on your thaibank!

And still a PR,like stated is not easy as well and ill be time consuming,like first many extensions,and I thought it was even that retiries cannot even apply for that!!

So just go only for the retirementvisa together and just make the money issue work out and you can retire a well good life.Just more taxes then ,it cannot be different like stated.And believe me,the people who respond to your question,know everything what is possible in Thailand.

By the way,the money you both have will be more then enough to spend anyway.......

So why all these thoughts about PR and stuff??

[josefbl]

best Joseph,you got to take in consideration that when you and your wife come together you will need the double income requirement(1.600000 baht)to get your renewals.Like i understand it and have read from problems of other members ,concerning this.But I also read that one of you can be dependant on the other.but you both have income pensions.So maybe you should make sure you both need to deposit money,prior 3 months before application of extension on your thaibank!

And still a PR,like stated is not easy as well and ill be time consuming,like first many extensions,and I thought it was even that retiries cannot even apply for that!!

So just go only for the retirementvisa together and just make the money issue work out and you can retire a well good life.Just more taxes then ,it cannot be different like stated.And believe me,the people who respond to your question,know everything what is possible in Thailand.

By the way,the money you both have will be more then enough to spend anyway.......

So why all these thoughts about PR and stuff??

O.K. let me give you all a complete picture for the things in our case :

My wife : Belgian ,civil servant , regardless the country she will live in ,she has to pay ( high )income taxes in Belgium ,even on full retirement pension !!!

UNLESS she wiil obtain the citizenship of the country she lives in.So in short this would be Thailand , but if not possible ,o.k. so be it ! But we will go thru with the planes for retirement in Thailand.What kind of status we wil have , does not matter , the thing is that we can and will be happy together in our ( old ) days !! in a reasonable way of living.

My case is even more complicated ! : Sivil servant in Belgium , partly independant ( shopkeeper ) , partly employe in Holland .Again , high income taxes in Belgium to pay,and due to the fact that I was independent , NO PENSION at all !! But iff we make the account together for the anual income and for the deposit , we fulfill the requierments.From the Ducht a will have my ( very) partly AOW and a very small pension.

So ,in april we will be back in Thailand for ( just ) 3 weeks and try to find out more and UP to Date information and laws concerning emigration.We have a very good ( Dutch ) friend whom lives in Uttaradit ,maried to a Thai Lady , so also here the case is different.It was he infact that brought up the idea for the Thai citizenship , becourse he has not to pay any taxes !

So dear forum users ,I hope that this give you more clearnes of our " case "

Sincere greetings ,Josef

[lopburi3]

If you have a legal marriage only one of you will be required to meed financial requirements for retirement. It sounds as if this should be your wife. You then come as her dependent and obtain yearly extensions of stay on the basis for being her spouse.

Requirement will be one bank account in name of retirement party (not a joint account unless double the money required is kept in it). The bank account will have to be more than any shortfall of the normal monthly 65k baht requirement. If pension is larger the bank account will just be checked to see that you submit the required bank letter/passbook copies but no fixed amount will be required.

For the pension she will have to obtain letter from your Embassy to certify the amount and present that and supporting paperwork if requested. You should both arrive on non immigrant visas when you plan to do this to make it easier.

Does your friend have citizenship? Does he know anyone that does? I am surprised that he would think it easy if he lives here. At our age it is just not in the cards.

[kash]

It's kind of greedy to accept a pension from your homecountry, but not wanting to pay tax to the very same country.

Greedy ????? I have worked aprox 45 years and I will receive aprox € 500, before tax per monthon pension.

Whom is greedy !!!! Me or the country I have worked for ?Notice that I am Dutch and NOT Belgian !!! This is one of the reasons tha we CERTANLY will emigrate to Thailand and try to avoid pay ( high ) taxes.

Belgium is one if not the highest country on income tax of the world !!!!![/b]

Maybe you understand now a little bit better why.

Sincere greetings from NOT a greedy and certanly honest man !

josef

Some people just don't understand the concept of a welfare system, someone have to pay for it, like it or not.

[tijnebijn]

I am sorry Josef,what Lopburi gives you for information is allready up to date!!!!

If something is old info or something comes new,the mod from TV make it very quick news,and we are the first to hear about it!At least they try to do,and i think many are so helpful to things we cannot fully understand,and cleared me out also.

I think you probably need your retirement life allready,cause you just seem not to understand there is not a different way!But you will find out eventually,goodluck.