effect of อีกด้วยซ้ำ

[tgeezer]

เห็นเงิน 20,000 บาทในบัญชีวันนี้ นึกถึงวันที่ออกจากงานเมื่อ 5ปีที่แล้ว (มีเงินติดตัวมาน้อยกว่านี้อีกด้วยซ้ำ) The official Facebook translation has ("I have more money than this".) not written by a native English speaker.   

i have quoted the entire paragraph in case people feel it might be relevant.  I don't think that the translation is correct but one never knows, perhaps someone here has knows. All opinions are welcome!  

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by tgeezer

[Chaam local]

"Even" I would say. "The money in my pocket was even less than that."

[naboo]

My full translation

 

"I saw THB20,000 in my account today. I think it is from a job I did 5 years ago (there is a little more money, less than this, to come another time."

 

อีกด้วยซ้ำ - in this case translates as "another time". The ซ้ำ means "repeat" but often doesn't work with a direct translation.

[tgeezer]

Naboo. I can see how you might make that interpretation. I should have given the whole story. I didn’t because I feel that people don’t see this forum as a learning exercise and resent it when I try to make it so.

The writer gave up his profession and the ‘rat race in Bangkok five years ago to return to his province in Southern Thailand and turn his family’s land into a business. Growing veg, having guests, a sort of Green resort. This year he flew all his staff from the province to spend a holiday at เขาใหญ่ . They have just had a staff meeting and he showed them the books, there was surprise that he was spending the profits on them, this is from his Facebook report. He is explaining why he feels that having a happy team means more to him than profits and the 20000Bt plus the love of his people is more than he could have got from Bangkok.

The context changes everything so Is that enough for you to have another go at the translation?
I like to parse the sentences.
นึกถึงวัน my thoughts reach the day > recalling the day > I recollect the day, as compared with คิดถึงบ้าน my thought reach home > thinking of home> missing home> homesick.


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[tgeezer]

"Even" I would say. "The money in my pocket was even less than that."

I thought that, so the translation gets a 3/5 .


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[tgeezer]

At the risk of appearing too interested in Thai, can I ask if people know about Thai-language.com? I was researching อีกด้วย and found myself there. There are dictionaries there plus examples. One of อีกด้วย which I thought that I would give a try and compare with the translation given.
หญิงสาวคิดจะแจ้งเกิดโดยถอดยกทรงเต็นในงานสงครานต์...
I was baffled because I didn’t know and couldn’t guess the derived meanings of: แจงเกิด report birth and ยกทรง lift shape .

I know that there are plenty of learning aids available and most people are busy and happy with with what they are doing but for any that aren’t, there it is. From my point of view I would appreciate discussions on their translations with like minded people there or here. It really is a very good site although the discussion forum appears dead the dictionary and lessons are excellent.


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[surfdog]

big jump in the wrong direction on that first translation, นีกถึง vs. นึก vs นึกออก... anyways that is enough for another post. But yes immediately I was signaled that the author was speaking about the past when he/she did not "EVEN" have 20,000 baht in the bank.

I can not translate accurately to English without creatively changing it to English "very" like suggested already

"I didn't even have 20,000 baht in the bank then"

I would suggest using it whole as "อีกด้วยซำ้" as a particle which adds emphasis to the unthinkable.

So in this case I can easily infer from his/her use of that particle describing his/her bank account to have less than 20,000 baht 5 years ago as "incredulous" to the readers

That is to say that we should know or assume the writer is now:

-successful
-having much more than 20k in bank account at all times



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[tgeezer]

I agree completely and it was my first thought, but I had to ask.

Interesting; “jump in the wrong direction”. Do you not think that it helps to correct one mistranslation in the post I am answering?

The writer is writing in perfect English syntax, substitution is all that is required which indicates that the writer is educated in grammar. Only the part I have asked about will not be found there.

See money 20,000 Bt in account today, thoughts reach day, when out from work time-before 5 years time -already.

นึกถึงครั้นออกจากงานห้าปีก่อน
นึกถึงเมื่อห้าปีที่แล้ว เมื่อออกจากงาน
ระลึกวันที่ออกจากงานมาห้าปีแล้ว
(มีเงินส่วนตัวน้อยกว่านนี้เลย)

People have often told me คนไทยไม่พูด but I am not คนไทย! พวกเราไม่พูด is better then I can retort with พวกเราพูด and we can discuss why a learner may think my way, most people will drop it because they expect people to learn by rote for which I don’t have the time.




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[surfdog]

I agree completely and it was my first thought, but I had to ask.

Interesting; “jump in the wrong direction”. Do you not think that it helps to correct one mistranslation in the post I am answering?

The writer is writing in perfect English syntax, substitution is all that is required which indicates that the writer is educated in grammar. Only the part I have asked about will not be found there.

See money 20,000 Bt in account today, thoughts reach day, when out from work time-before 5 years time -already.

นึกถึงครั้นออกจากงานห้าปีก่อน
นึกถึงเมื่อห้าปีที่แล้ว เมื่อออกจากงาน
ระลึกวันที่ออกจากงานมาห้าปีแล้ว
(มีเงินส่วนตัวน้อยกว่านนี้เลย)

People have often told me คนไทยไม่พูด but I am not คนไทย! พวกเราไม่พูด is better then I can retort with พวกเราพูด and we can discuss why a learner may think my way, most people will drop it because they expect people to learn by rote for which I don’t have the time.




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was referring to Naboos misinterpretation of นึกถึง, not sure how to respond to the rest of your rambings as usual :)


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[tgeezer]

That’s fine if you don’t understand what I wrote. I have written some Thai which you could critique.
I don’t know which is worse, saying that what I write is incoherent or just ignoring me!




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[Puwa]

On 2/18/2019 at 6:00 PM, tgeezer said:

เห็นเงิน 20,000 บาทในบัญชีวันนี้ นึกถึงวันที่ออกจากงานเมื่อ 5ปีที่แล้ว (มีเงินติดตัวมาน้อยกว่านี้อีกด้วยซ้ำ)

I read this as "I saw twenty thousand baht in my account today and thought about the day I left my job five years ago (when I had even less)."

 

And I interpret it to mean that although the person may have only 20,000 baht, five years ago he (or she) has been in even worse shape in the past, yet has survived to this day. 

 

As I understand it, there are two operative phrases here that are fused together, perhaps unnecessarily. First is น้อยกว่านี้อีก, meaning "even less than this." Second is ด้วยซ้ำ, which I always find difficult to translate but is used for emphasis in situations of comparison. ด้วยซ้ำ is optional and the meaning would stand without it.

 

 

[tgeezer]

I value your input, do you have any criticism of my “ramblings” in post No. 8? Does it make sense to you?




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[samran]

Sorry to butt in. For me, and maybe its a personal interpretation, but the ด้วยซ้ำ highlights that he did something when perhaps you wouldn't normally have: ie. he left a job and did it with little money in the bank.

 

'on top of that' might be a loose translation?

Edited March 5, 2019 by samran

[tgeezer]

You are not butting in at all. I think that there is nothing wrong with having an impression of what the extra words mean, we are both trying to explain redundancy.
อีกด้วย means เช่นเดียวกัน If we say that ซ้ำ means ‘repeatedly’ .
Time and again I had as little as this in the same way.
Lots of redundancy which would hardly be remarked in conversation.


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[Puwa]

On 3/5/2019 at 12:00 AM, tgeezer said:

I value your input, do you have any criticism of my “ramblings” in post No. 8? Does it make sense to you?

Translation is not a mechanical act. In language there is such a thing as idiom-- how people actually use the language. Most of the alternative constructions you suggest are unidiomatic in one way or another. It's better to learn how to mimic native speakers and pay close attention to context, inflection, and other subtleties.

[tgeezer]

Great!

The sentence is “I recall the time five years ago when I left work.”
I have followed the English syntax faithfully because it is all I am capable of so can you show me how you would make it more idiomatic?

I believe that I agree with you in ระลึก but it might be remembered that it is an official word and one might like to show that one knew the word depending on the context, with an Immigration Officer for example.


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[Puwa]

12 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Great!

The sentence is “I recall the time five years ago when I left work.”
I have followed the English syntax faithfully because it is all I am capable of so can you show me how you would make it more idiomatic?

I believe that I agree with you in ระลึก but it might be that it is an official word and one might like to show that one knew the word depending on the context, with an Immigration Officer for example.

I believe that ระลึก has a sentimental connotation, which is why it used for memorial, commemoration, souvenir. You wouldn't use it for remembering where you left your keys or other mundane facts or situations.