Issue about alcoholic.

[roroeow7]

Hey Guys.

 

I believe I am an alcoholic. But I am not sure if there are different types of alcoholic?

I mean, I can go weeks at a time without drinking - I don't "need" a drink. I do not drink at home. But any excuse to go out drinking, and I am there. My "problem" is that when I start, I cannot stop. If I went for a beer after work, I would continue on drinking with anyone that will participate, until 2,3,4, or even 5am. I don't get hangovers. I don't feel sick. Until recently, I never had any (additional) behavioural problems such as fighting or aggresion, but the latter is slowly creeping in and I am scared of that!!!

So, I have started to read up "alcoholism", but it seems that most of the information out there is directed at "dependance" or "addiction". As such, I do not fee "addicted" to alcohol - but maybe I am and I just don't realise it. I do not have cravings for a drink - I have never felt like I "need" a drink. I don't have a drink to "steady my nerves" or any of those stigmas. For me, I just don't want to miss out on the party.

So I ask, are there different types of alcoholism and if so are there different approaches to beating the issue?

So I be saying "I will never drink again"?

I am not a spiritual person, so putting faith in a higher power is not for me really.

Please note anything I have written here I am expressing as an idea, not fact. I stand to be corrected on any, or all of it.

Any suggestion would be appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Mavideol]

oh man, you are going to hear some funny and some not so funny stuff here at TV.... first have to give you credit for recognizing that you are an alcoholic, many of them don't have the balls to say it. People say they don't have addictions or dependance on alcohol are lying to themselves, sorry to tell you by alcoholics are the same as drug addicts, once one always one, regardless of what they say or do, sooner than later they will go back to it.....

[dddave]

"AA" may or may not be for you.  It is heavy on "Faith" but not insistent, What is powerful at AA is the support community of peers that develops around you and does not ever abandon you. 

[MalandLee]

Sad to say, you have had your first bit of nonsense advice - and the first post, at that!

 

Alcoholism is defined as drinking that negatively affects your life. Often it begins small, but, it is a slippery slope.

 

I am sober 23 years 8 months and 20 days today. I have NEVER drank since the day I stopped. I am an Atheist, but, although I have only been to a relative handful of meetings, I feel AA has a lot to offer.

My AA journey was online.

I am old now, consequently many of my good friends have passed away, some sober for over 40 years. NONE of my friends returned to the bottle, but, of course some do - you need not be one of them. If life (And alcoholism) were a train journey, you have the choice to get off that train - when YOU are ready.

 

Good luck

[BritManToo]

42 minutes ago, roroeow7 said:

So I ask, are there different types of alcoholism and if so are there different approaches to beating the issue?

 

I managed to stop the binge drinking ten years back, but I still get a bit drunk every day.

Not sure I fit in the definition of 'alcoholic' as it doesn't appear to affect my life.

I definitely can't stop, nor do I want to stop.

[cooked]

For a long time I was "I really must stop spending so much money on beer some time" but never got around to it. 

Once I got to "if you don't stop you are going to have to leave Thailand and ditch your wife and kid" I stopped thinking it might be a good idea and knew it was essential. Some people would rather die than stop drinking.

Amazing. Not a drop for two years, now 4 -5 small Changs a week, partly because I love walking down to the shop after school with the kids and it's the only thing they have I might like. Not the thin edge of a wedge either.

You have to be convinced that it is the right thing to do, not just intellectually but in your gut.

Good luck mate.

[wgdanson]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

but I still get a bit drunk every day.

Yeh, we can tell by some of your posts!   LOL 555

[stud858]

Possibly due to boredom.

Join a tennis club or temple travel club where psis ups are less likely to happen.

Join a gym. Focus on healthy living. Etc.usual advice I think.

I don't think you're a true alcoholic if you're not seeking out alcohol every 2nd day.

[likerdup1]

I've been a long time AA member and am an alcoholic. For a long time I didn't think I was an alcoholic because I didn't drink daily. I wasnn't a maintenance drinker. It got to be a problem for me so I would stop for a couple months. But then I would decide to "party" again and try to control it. I found in the next 3 years of trying to control it I really could not. Once I started drinking I would just keep on going. Then after I really honestly wanted to stop I found I couldn't do it permanently. The best I did was 6 months. I also tried ONLY AA meetings but not the 12 steps. That didn't work very well either. I stopped for longer but then I'd go back to it just the same. Finally I had had it and asked for and got a sponsor in AA.  I did the 12 steps with his guidance and finally I got real recovery, not just abstinence but a feeling like I don't need a drink anymore ... ever. All this from practicing the 12 steps and having some open-mindedness.

 

The Book Alcoholics Anonymous as a precise definition of what alcoholism is and I am cutting and pasting a summary from a Blog that I publish.  Here is AA's description of what alcoholism is "as they see it" from the book "Alcoholics Anonymous"

 

The problem: Alcoholism - a illness that has two parts. An allergy of the body coupled with an obsession of the mind. AA states “alcoholics are powerless over alcohol”. “We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to CONTROL our drinking”. (Page 30 Alcoholics Anonymous)

a) Allergy of the body - also described as a physical allergy to alcohol.
A person with alcoholism lacks the ability to control the amount they take once they start drinking. A physical craving develops after one or two drinks which overwhelms even a strong desire to moderate or stop. This craving happens only in people with alcoholism and is an abnormal reaction to alcohol. The medical explanation of this is that an alcoholics body metabolizes alcohol "improperly" and slightly different than a non-alcoholic. This difference sets up a craving in alcoholics AFTER they start to drink. This is why AA's benefactor Dr. W. D. Silkworth describes it is an allergy. Alcoholics have an abnormal reaction (same as an allergy) to alcohol. When non-alcoholics drink their reaction is normal, they enjoy one or two drinks and nothing bad happens. When real alcoholics have even a couple of drinks they can’t help but to continue drinking. They are compelled to keep drinking by a physical craving which is an abnormal reaction to alcohol. Alcoholics are allergic to alcohol in much the same way a person may be allergic to peanuts, but instead of  developing a rash they develop this physical craving to keep drinking. This is described as the "phenomenon of craving" (Doctors opinion chapter in the AA book)

b) Obsession of the mind - also described as a mental obsession.
Even when sincerely wanting to, a *real alcoholic will find he or she cannot quit entirely. They lack the ability using will power. Real alcoholics cannot abstain from alcohol for any lasting and contented period of time even when honestly wanting to. Alcoholics have an alcoholic mind which dooms them to make the mistake of the first drink over and over again. When sincerely not wanting to drink, they might stop and be able to stay sober for awhile, but eventually go back to it with the same undesired consequences.

To summarize about alcoholics. They are:
a) Powerless to control how much they drink once they start. (this is the Physical Allergy)
b) Powerless to quit drinking entirely even when honestly wanting to. (this is the Mental Obsession)

[MalandLee]

Thank you likerdup1 for step 12... I hope your post helps at least one more than me, hopefully, many - Despite my 23 years, it surely helped me and I am deeply grateful for that.

[corkman]

Oh man, you sound like me.

 

It's hard to say "never again". If we conformed to the traditional view of what an alcoholic is then we'd have no choice but take action. I bet you feel sort of in limbo? You feel "well its  it that bad, really". Which is why I found it/find it too hard to say never and quit totally. So I have learned to recognise there is a time and place that it's ok to let the demon out. I have learned the triggers and recognised the wisdom in the phrase "you can't have 2 if you don't have the first".

 

So now I try to limit my indulging at times that it is expected i.e. birthdays, new year, special occasions, and I have talked it over with my good friends that know not to encourage or tempt me, and make allowance for my abnormality when we do start drinking. I try to avoid "Friday night beers" which is just drinking for drinking sake, and since when I start I cannot stop then I have a Friday or Saturday night only rule. It's not ideal, I could probably do better, but it's a million times better than I was.

 

Hope that helps.

[Yellowtail]

Non alchoholics don't wonder whether or not they're alcoholic.

 

Keep riding it until the wheels fall off and then try AA.

[MrPatrickThai]

On 2/20/2019 at 6:23 PM, roroeow7 said:

I do not have cravings for a drink - I have never felt like I "need" a drink. I don't have a drink to "steady my nerves" or any of those stigmas. For me, I just don't want to miss out on the party.

You are not an alcoholic, you have some other mental illness. See a doctor.

[Neeranam]

On 2/21/2019 at 12:26 AM, likerdup1 said:

I've been a long time AA member and am an alcoholic. For a long time I didn't think I was an alcoholic because I didn't drink daily. I wasnn't a maintenance drinker. It got to be a problem for me so I would stop for a couple months. But then I would decide to "party" again and try to control it. I found in the next 3 years of trying to control it I really could not. Once I started drinking I would just keep on going. Then after I really honestly wanted to stop I found I couldn't do it permanently. The best I did was 6 months. I also tried ONLY AA meetings but not the 12 steps. That didn't work very well either. I stopped for longer but then I'd go back to it just the same. Finally I had had it and asked for and got a sponsor in AA.  I did the 12 steps with his guidance and finally I got real recovery, not just abstinence but a feeling like I don't need a drink anymore ... ever. All this from practicing the 12 steps and having some open-mindedness.

 

The Book Alcoholics Anonymous as a precise definition of what alcoholism is and I am cutting and pasting a summary from a Blog that I publish.  Here is AA's description of what alcoholism is "as they see it" from the book "Alcoholics Anonymous"

 

The problem: Alcoholism - a illness that has two parts. An allergy of the body coupled with an obsession of the mind. AA states “alcoholics are powerless over alcohol”. “We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to CONTROL our drinking”. (Page 30 Alcoholics Anonymous)

a) Allergy of the body - also described as a physical allergy to alcohol.
A person with alcoholism lacks the ability to control the amount they take once they start drinking. A physical craving develops after one or two drinks which overwhelms even a strong desire to moderate or stop. This craving happens only in people with alcoholism and is an abnormal reaction to alcohol. The medical explanation of this is that an alcoholics body metabolizes alcohol "improperly" and slightly different than a non-alcoholic. This difference sets up a craving in alcoholics AFTER they start to drink. This is why AA's benefactor Dr. W. D. Silkworth describes it is an allergy. Alcoholics have an abnormal reaction (same as an allergy) to alcohol. When non-alcoholics drink their reaction is normal, they enjoy one or two drinks and nothing bad happens. When real alcoholics have even a couple of drinks they can’t help but to continue drinking. They are compelled to keep drinking by a physical craving which is an abnormal reaction to alcohol. Alcoholics are allergic to alcohol in much the same way a person may be allergic to peanuts, but instead of  developing a rash they develop this physical craving to keep drinking. This is described as the "phenomenon of craving" (Doctors opinion chapter in the AA book)

b) Obsession of the mind - also described as a mental obsession.
Even when sincerely wanting to, a *real alcoholic will find he or she cannot quit entirely. They lack the ability using will power. Real alcoholics cannot abstain from alcohol for any lasting and contented period of time even when honestly wanting to. Alcoholics have an alcoholic mind which dooms them to make the mistake of the first drink over and over again. When sincerely not wanting to drink, they might stop and be able to stay sober for awhile, but eventually go back to it with the same undesired consequences.

To summarize about alcoholics. They are:
a) Powerless to control how much they drink once they start. (this is the Physical Allergy)
b) Powerless to quit drinking entirely even when honestly wanting to. (this is the Mental Obsession)

You forgot the third part,  a spiritual malady. Search Carl Jung and alcoholism.

 

To the OP, I've met thousands of alcoholics and can't remember any not drinking at home. An alcoholic will drink anywhere and everywhere.

 

After a night out, do you need a morning drink to be able to function properly? Alcoholics do.

 

 

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

Carl Jung and Alcoholism – History of Alcoholics Anonymous – The Begining of AA and Treatment for Alcoholism- The Spiritual Experience

In 1961 Bill W., one of the founders of Alcoholics Anonymous, wrote a letter to the famous Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung in which he thanked him for helping spark the fire that was to become Alcoholics Anonymous. Carl Jung had worked with a hopeless alcoholics named Rowland H. According to Carl Jung, Rowland’s only chance to recover from his alcoholism was a “spiritual or religious experience – in short, a genuine conversion.” Jung went on to say that this type of spiritual experience had been happening to alcoholics for centuries, but that he did not know how to produce such a spiritual experience through the use of psychological methods. Jung wrote back to Jung and said that Rowland’s alcoholism was “the equivalent, on a low level, of the spiritual thirst of our being for wholeness, expressed in medieval language: the union with God.” Jung’s letter went on to say that, “…alcohol in Latin is spiritus” and that the same Latin word is used for “the highest religious experience as well as the most depraving poison. The helpful formula therefore is: spiritus contra spiritum.”

 

The equally famous psychologist William James wrote something similar regarding alcoholism. In his book, The Variaties of Religious Experience, he said that the “sway of alcohol over mankind is unquestionably due to its powers to stimulate the mystical faculties of human nature, usually crushed to the earth by the cold facts and dry criticisms of the sober our.” He then added, “The drunken consciousness is one bit of the mystic consciousness, and our total opinion of it must find its place in our opinion of that larger whole.” James, in his book, describes a plethora of religious experiences that have happened to people over the centuries. Jung knew that the only hope for Rowland to recovery from his alcoholism was the kind of religious experience that James describes in his book.

 

In Alcoholics Anonymous, Bill W. sought out to write out the steps needed to produce a religious experience in alcoholics and addicts of the type Jung and James talked about. Bill W. had had one of these religious/spiritual experiences that James and Jung describe. Bill’s spiritual experience stopped his chronic alcoholism abruptly and permanently. Alcoholics Anonymous is a series of twelve steps designed to create a spiritual experience, a “total psychic change,” of the type needed to cure chronic alcoholism. In fact, the only way a person can recover from drugs and/or alcohol is to have a total psychic shift based on spiritual priniciples. This is one of the reasons why psychology has failed to help alcoholics and addicts, because psychology, by definition, is not concerned with the type of spiritual element needed for a person to recover from drugs and alcohol.

 

Psychology and therapy has its place in recovery, but the only way to truly be free from drugs and alcohol for the rest of your life is to have a spiritual experience.

[Neeranam]

On 2/20/2019 at 6:54 PM, MalandLee said:

Alcoholism is defined as drinking that negatively affects your life. Often it begins small, but, it is a slippery slope.

By whom?

 

 

[likerdup1]

On 4/20/2019 at 12:13 PM, Neeranam said:

You forgot the third part,  a spiritual malady. Search Carl Jung and alcoholism.

 

To the OP, I've met thousands of alcoholics and can't remember any not drinking at home. An alcoholic will drink anywhere and everywhere.

 

After a night out, do you need a morning drink to be able to function properly? Alcoholics do.

 

 

Yea, show me in the Big Book or in the 12 and 12 where it goes into detail describing Alcoholism as a spiritual malady and then you can tell me I forgot something.

 

It's a popular party line in the meetings to say it's also a spiritual malady but it is not useful to start telling that to new commers. That is why it is only briefly mentioned ONCE in ONE sentence in the 4th step portion of our Big Books first 164 pages.

 

There is however an entire section called the Doctors Opinion that goes into depth describing the physical allergy - phenomenon of craving part of alcohlism.

 

There is an entire chapter called "More About Alcoholism" that goes into depth about the mental obsession portion of alcoholism .... as AA describes Alcoholism

 

Carl Jungs writings however interesting are not officially AA and when I'm working with new commers I NEVER start going on about his alcoholism being a spiritual malady ... that is what AA calls "leading with the chin".. Its' borderline being evangelical... which drives some from AA and has them telling their friends that AA is a bunch of Jesus freaks.

 

I have sponsored many men over the years and I use the chapter "working with others" as my guideline. It specifically says to NOT start talking about God or spirituality in the beginning when approaching a new alcoholic. Be careful, if that's what you are doing you might be driving alcoholics away who could use a more delicate approach to God and spirituality.

 

I didnt' forget anything ... you just haven't studied the program that much and you have bought the party line ... that it's also a spiritual malady that get's kicked carelessly around the rooms... sorry but you are mistaken to make that some significant part of the description of alcoholism. The BIG BOOK does not do that and so I do not do that. I would recommend if you are sharing that party line in meetings that you not.

 

[likerdup1]

8 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Carl Jung and Alcoholism – History of Alcoholics Anonymous – The Begining of AA and Treatment for Alcoholism- The Spiritual Experience

 

Very interesting, I enjoyed this.

[user343434]

if you love eating curries you are defo a p*sshead.. ????

 

Seamen, Roughnecks and Roustabouts are well known for sailing in, filling up, sailing out.. 

and as "golden rule" they say: beer, take it or leave it nothing over 5%. 

 

The characters are so different and only you can say to yourself you are a party lion that once of the lead lives the full lot 

or you say to yourself you are an alcoholic with random proper p*ss-up manners.

 

As long you stick to your rules like no spirits in the house, you are in a lifestyle that many others have too.

They like to be in company with others that share the same life style.

hard to get out of that but sure listen always to yourself and more is be honest to yourself. 

 

Try to let it be at one pub, when that one closes the show is over.

If you move to the next place the home feeling and coziness is gone either.

Its a new startup of the night as you go through all things again, the hello, the build up contacts, getting into the fun mode and so on....

But it will never be like the time before in the pub you started.. So you start hunting a Ghost and end up being a Ghost.. 

 

If I want to go for a real bashing its the first pub, either I stumble over my legs before it closes or I am just drunk and go home not bothering trying to repeat all that what made the night out what it was until the Pub closed.. 

[Neeranam]

14 hours ago, likerdup1 said:

I didnt' forget anything ... you just haven't studied the program that much and you have bought the party line ... that it's also a spiritual malady that get's kicked carelessly around the rooms... sorry but you are mistaken to make that some significant part of the description of alcoholism. The BIG BOOK does not do that and so I do not do that. I would recommend if you are sharing that party line in meetings that you not.

I am open to debate, but not criticism of my knowledge of the AA  program, rather a cheap shot. 

AA is a three fold disease, it says so in the big book. Saying otherwise is simply wrong.

Sadly many people on AA are living with untreated alcoholism, some are what are called 2-steppers.

The root of our problem is selfishness and self centeredness, says Bill Wilson.

We have to work on smashing our egos, as it blocks us from God, which is mentioned  in the big book 315 times!

How many times in the steps? 

We need to keep in fit spiritual condition through the discipline of steps 10/11.

In the big book, it tells us that we straighten out mentally and physically when we are spiritually fit.

It is only by having a spiritual experience that we can help others. It's ALL about spirituality, and newcomers need to know this. "Assuming we are spiritually fit, we can do all sorts.." from "working with others".

[Lacessit]

I doubt the OP is an alcoholic. He would be drinking every day if he was.

However, it sounds to me like he seeks out the company of others because he is not comfortable with solitude.

Alcohol is a social lubricant, and removes inhibitions. Aggression is one of its side-effects in people where there is pre-existing latent aggression. The OP should address the original causes of the aggression if he wants to progress in that regard.

[luk AJ]

AA is probably the best solution but certainly not the only. Can be done with strong discipline as well.
I also don’t believe the OP is a true alcoholic.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[James Lewis]

I agree that sometimes it's difficult to understand whether you are addicted or not. I had the same problems with prescription drugs. I couldn't realize that I had an addiction for a long time. I hope that you'll cope with your problem in the near future.

[NCC1701A]

I had a friend when I was twenty, his name was Alex. We were alike in many ways, but he had no off switch when it came to drinking.

I would marvel at how much he could drink. At that time I thought of it like a skill. How does he do it?  

 

He lived until 50 until one day he just drank so much in one day he died.    

 

 

[MarryB]

My dad was an alcoholic. It's great sorrow when someone you love struggles with such a problem. He always promised us he could stop, but it was harder than he thought. He didn't understand that he had an addiction. And the most difficult thing was to explain to him that he still had a dependency on alcohol. Addiction Resource says that one of the reasons why people become addicted to any substance is mental problems. And the main step to recovery is to understand your problem. So I hope you are on the right way. 

[Wilson Smith]

On 4/20/2019 at 8:41 PM, likerdup1 said:

Yea, show me in the Big Book or in the 12 and 12 where it goes into detail describing Alcoholism as a spiritual malady and then you can tell me I forgot something.

 

It's a popular party line in the meetings to say it's also a spiritual malady but it is not useful to start telling that to new commers. That is why it is only briefly mentioned ONCE in ONE sentence in the 4th step portion of our Big Books first 164 pages.

 

There is however an entire section called the Doctors Opinion that goes into depth describing the physical allergy - phenomenon of craving part of alcohlism.

 

There is an entire chapter called "More About Alcoholism" that goes into depth about the mental obsession portion of alcoholism .... as AA describes Alcoholism

 

Carl Jungs writings however interesting are not officially AA and when I'm working with new commers I NEVER start going on about his alcoholism being a spiritual malady ... that is what AA calls "leading with the chin".. Its' borderline being evangelical... which drives some from AA and has them telling their friends that AA is a bunch of Jesus freaks.

 

I have sponsored many men over the years and I use the chapter "working with others" as my guideline. It specifically says to NOT start talking about God or spirituality in the beginning when approaching a new alcoholic. Be careful, if that's what you are doing you might be driving alcoholics away who could use a more delicate approach to God and spirituality.

 

I didnt' forget anything ... you just haven't studied the program that much and you have bought the party line ... that it's also a spiritual malady that get's kicked carelessly around the rooms... sorry but you are mistaken to make that some significant part of the description of alcoholism. The BIG BOOK does not do that and so I do not do that. I would recommend if you are sharing that party line in meetings that you not.

 

BB More About Alcoholism, p.42 "Then they outlined the spiritual answer and program of action which a hundred of them had followed successfully.

 

BB More About Alcoholism, p.43 Though not a religious person, I have profound respect for the spiritual approach in such cases as yours.

 

BB We Agnostics, p.47 When people presented us with spiritual approaches, how frequently did we all say, "I wish I had what that man has.)

 

BB The Doctor's Opinion, p.xxvi Though we work out our solution on the spiritual as well as an altruistic plane,

 

BB We Agnostics, p.45 That means we have written a book which we believe to be spiritual as well as moral.

 

BB We Agnostics, p.49 We used to amuse ourselves by cynically dissecting spiritual beliefs and practices when we might have observed that many spiritually-minded persons of all races, colors, and creeds were demonstrating a degree of stability, happiness and usefulness which we should have sought ourselves

 

BB We Agnostics, p.44 To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis are not always easy alternatives to face.

 

[grifbel]

On 4/21/2019 at 12:07 PM, Neeranam said:

Saying otherwise is simply wrong.

No you are wrong.   This is simply a different point of view.  In fact alcoholism can almost always all be traced to a simple lack of self-control.  It has been hijacked by political groups with agendas, as it is easy to prey on the weak in their time of need.

[Neeranam]

7 hours ago, grifbel said:

No you are wrong.   This is simply a different point of view.  In fact alcoholism can almost always all be traced to a simple lack of self-control.  It has been hijacked by political groups with agendas, as it is easy to prey on the weak in their time of need.

Are you saying that alcoholics are weak willed?

[sanemax]

8 hours ago, grifbel said:

No you are wrong.   This is simply a different point of view.  In fact alcoholism can almost always all be traced to a simple lack of self-control.  It has been hijacked by political groups with agendas, as it is easy to prey on the weak in their time of need.

What is the reason for that "lack of self control "?

[Yellowtail]

47 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Are you saying that alcoholics are weak willed?

 

Lacking self-control and being weak-willed is not the same thing.

 

If I am addicted to alcohol, all the will in the world will not stop me from shaking when I need a drink.