Brexit bribe? UK PM May unveils $2.1 billion fund for Brexit-backing towns

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

Ah, the usual pathetic excuse.

 

May was not very popular as Home Secretary, there is a good chance that had a more popular challenger, such as Johnson, stood against her that they would have won; regardless of their stance on Brexit.

 

But he, and Gove, knew that delivering a Brexit which pleased everyone, even every Brexiteer, was going to be nigh on impossible; so they both bottled it and left the task to May. 

 

That way May gets the blame, and they can stand back with a metaphorical smirk on their faces saying "Told you so." 

 

 

 

Why not just look at the facts. Gove was on the Leave campaign as was Boris. The vast majority of Tory MPs want to remain. They were never going to allow a Leaver to lead the party! 

Instead they squeezed all the Leave contenders out and put their 'soft' remainer into no.10. 

You can almost sense what was going on from fierce remainer Ken Clarke's comments here, as he 'encouraged' Michael Gove to drop out of the contest: 

 

“In the national interest we’ve got to select a Prime Minister as quickly and sensibly as we possibly can,” Mr Clarke told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme. “There is a real threat to our economy until we make some progress. We need somebody in office who can carry the confidence of all his or her colleagues"

 

 

 

 

 

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Public spending per head in Scotland is higher than all other parts of the UK other than Northern Ireland.

 

 

The Scottish government recognises that public spending in Scotland exceeds revenue, even when taking North Sea revenue into account.

Source: Scotland: Tax and spending.

 

OK, those figures are only up to 2015/16; if you can provide more up to date figures I'd be grateful.

 

As you know, I am an ardent unionist; but I am also a democrat. Scotland voted to remain in the UK before there was any mention of a Brexit referendum. Just as I believe we should have a second Brexit referendum now that the full consequences of Brexit are more widely known, I also believe that as Scotland voted to Remain, then if (let's be honest, more likely when) the UK does leave the EU the Scottish people should be given the opportunity to decide whether to come with us on that long and difficult road, or leave the UK and apply for EU membership as an independent nation.

 

Ditto for Northern Ireland; they, too, voted Remain. Therefore the people of that province should also be given the chance to decide whether to unite with the Republic and remain in the EU or leave the EU and remain in the UK. But the issue there is a lot more complex than in Scotland. Which way would Remainers who are also Unionists and Brexiteers who are also Republicans vote? History has shown that nothing there is ever simple and straightforward!

 

 

GERS is a bit of a controversial subject and there are myriad perspectives on it. I am not going to claim to be an expert on it, but the fact is that the data, while reported by the SG, is not theirs - they are reporting the data provided by the UK gov. Furthermore, the spending it alludes to includes spending carried out on behalf of Scotland by the UK gov - that black hole of impenetrable cost centres I mentioned in my previous post. 

 

Scotland contributes around 58 billion to the UK exchequer and receives, in return, 30 billion to spend. The surplus, plus an additional 15 billion is allegedly spent on Scotland's behalf. How that is spent and on what is not something the Scottish people have a say in, nor is it open to significant scrutiny. So we have a situation now where Scotland has around 8% of the UK population but, according to the UK government, is responsible for 31% of the deficit. In the absence of anything to explain just how that is possible, I am going to call hogwash.

 

Also, bear in mind that the majority of exports from the UK are from English ports - so any Scottish goods that sail from an English port are considered English exports for data representation. Similarly, North Sea Oil that doesn't come ashore in Scotland is also attributed to the Westminster (English) balance sheet.

 

Common sense tells us that the picture painted of the Scottish economy by Westminster is a contrivance. How could a country like Scotland, with an embarrassment of resources, have a GDP per head of population about a third lower than that of Ireland, for example? No disrespect intended towards the Irish, but it simply doesn't make sense that the Scottish GDP should be 43K USD per person, whereas the Irish GDP is 69k USD.

[7by7]

4 hours ago, Loiner said:

Leadsom was there to the end finally withdrew.
Gove was eliminated after two rounds.
Fox was eliminated after one round.
Boris was stabbed in the back early by Gove.
What would you expect when the party is Remain?


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 OK, Fox and Grove were eliminated; the rest withdrew. Including prominant leave campaigner Leadsom who, along with May, was one of the two candadates with sufficient votes to go forward in to the final round. But she withdrew rather than face the possibility of defeat.

 

The biggest surprise being the withdrawal of the analysts, pundits and even the bookies favourite to win the whole thing; Boris Johnson.

 

You may offer the feeble excuse that he withdrew after being 'stabbed in the back' by Gove; most of us know it was political cowardice. He'd been instumental in convincing 52% of those who voted to vote leave, but now hadn't a clue about how to carry that out. None of the Vote.Leave mob did. Their campaign was strong on how nasty the EU was, but compleltly lacking in what they would do if they won. So the front runner withdrew before voting even started so that someone else would carry the can when the whole thing inevitably went pear shaped.

 

It is obvious to all, or rather all who are paying attention, that Boris' statergy all along has been to avoid having any part in the actualities of Brexit and hang around on the fringes hoping the party will turn to him when may resigns.

[7by7]

3 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

 

Why not just look at the facts. Gove was on the Leave campaign as was Boris. The vast majority of Tory MPs want to remain. They were never going to allow a Leaver to lead the party! 

Instead they squeezed all the Leave contenders out and put their 'soft' remainer into no.10. 

You can almost sense what was going on from fierce remainer Ken Clarke's comments here, as he 'encouraged' Michael Gove to drop out of the contest: 

 

“In the national interest we’ve got to select a Prime Minister as quickly and sensibly as we possibly can,” Mr Clarke told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme. “There is a real threat to our economy until we make some progress. We need somebody in office who can carry the confidence of all his or her colleagues"

Clarke was, of course, right. We needed a strong PM with the full support of their party. Although Clarke didn't agree, at the beginning of the campaign that person was the front runner; Boris. But he withdrew for the reasons I've already explained.

 

[CG1 Blue]

32 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Clarke was, of course, right. We needed a strong PM with the full support of their party. Although Clarke didn't agree, at the beginning of the campaign that person was the front runner; Boris. But he withdrew for the reasons I've already explained.

 

I'm no Boris fan anyway, but whatever you say about the people involved, the fact is a Leave candidate was never going to get the PM job because the vast majority of their MPs wanted to remain. That's obvious surely! 

[7by7]

7 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I'm no Boris fan anyway, but whatever you say about the people involved, the fact is a Leave candidate was never going to get the PM job because the vast majority of their MPs wanted to remain. That's obvious surely! 

Is it?

 

Then why was Boris the favourite to suceed Cameron until he withdrew?

 

Boris Johnson favourite to replace David Cameron as PM after Brexit

 

Boris Johnson is bookmaker's favourite to succeed Cameron

 

Boris Johnson favourite amongst Tories to succeed Cameron

 

BORIS JOHNSON THE EARLY FAVOURITE TO SUCCEED DAVID CAMERON

[Loiner]

 He'd been instumental in convincing 52% of those who voted to vote leave,

Well you’ve certainly got a hard on for Boris. Instrumental in convincing 52%? I don’t think so.
Don’t Remainers think it was all a one man show by Nigel Farage? You forget that it’s actually the EU and all it stands for, that resulted in the Leave vote. Not a politician. Not a campaign. Not a big red bus.


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[7by7]

13 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Well you’ve certainly got a hard on for Boris. Instrumental in convincing 52%? I don’t think so.
Don’t Remainers think it was all a one man show by Nigel Farage? You forget that it’s actually the EU and all it stands for, that resulted in the Leave vote. Not a politician. Not a campaign. Not a big red bus.


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Boris was one of the, if not the, major public faces of the leave campaign. To say that he was not instrumental in leave's narrow victory shows one of three things:

1. you don't know what 'instrumental' in this context means, or
2. your total ignorance of the campaign itself, or
3. both.

The more you post, the more obvious it becomes that you were not in the UK at the time; if indeed you ever have been.

Edited March 6, 2019 by 7by7
Addendum

[bomber]

14 hours ago, Loiner said:

Yes, the Remainers fault.
Remainers control the CON party, so even after trying a Leaver could not become PM, and we ended up with Theresa the appeaser. She forced out Davis and Raab to get her deal with Merkel into position. The combined CON and LAB Remainer forces in parliament have steered the country towards BRINO. Hence our current shambles.
Yes, it’s all Remainers fault.


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are you still dream of brexit,it wont happen but dont worry spoonies will still be there and your pension will still be the same,your local hospital wont close and you can vote for tommy at the next GE,happy days

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Is it?

 

Then why was Boris the favourite to suceed Cameron until he withdrew?

 

Boris Johnson favourite to replace David Cameron as PM after Brexit

 

Boris Johnson is bookmaker's favourite to succeed Cameron

 

Boris Johnson favourite amongst Tories to succeed Cameron

 

BORIS JOHNSON THE EARLY FAVOURITE TO SUCCEED DAVID CAMERON

These headlines were made before people outside of Parliament knew the inner workings of the Tory party and the Leave/Remain arithmetic within. 

The Ladbrokes article even describes May as a Leave campaigner. Shows how little they knew at that point in time! 

 

What the bookies said is irrelevant. Just look at the basic facts. Do you think all those remainer tories (~75% of the members) would have voted in a leaver as PM? 

 

Anyway, let's agree to disagree. This is all history now. 

 

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, bomber said:

are you still dream of brexit,it wont happen but dont worry spoonies will still be there and your pension will still be the same,your local hospital wont close and you can vote for tommy at the next GE,happy days

You have an unhealthy obsession with Wetherspoons. Were you barred from their pubs or something? 

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

These headlines were made before people outside of Parliament knew the inner workings of the Tory party and the Leave/Remain arithmetic within. 

 

Really? Despite the Leave or Remain loyalties of every MP, of whatever party, being well publicised in the media during the campaign?

 

Well publicised here in the UK, at least; maybe not so in Thailand.

 

6 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

The Ladbrokes article even describes May as a Leave campaigner. Shows how little they knew at that point in time! 

Having worked for Ladbrokes for a short period; I'm not surprised. But the odds were based on more than that mistake. Bookies set their odds so that they don't lose money; you do know what an odds on favourite is, do you?

 

8 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

What the bookies said is irrelevant. Just look at the basic facts. Do you think all those remainer tories (~75% of the members) would have voted in a leaver as PM?

Yes, because he was the most popular candidate.

 

10 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Anyway, let's agree to disagree. This is all history now.

If only it were. 

 

[Mavideol]

15 hours ago, 7by7 said:

It is obvious to all, or rather all who are paying attention, that Boris' statergy all along has been to avoid having any part in the actualities of Brexit and hang around on the fringes hoping the party will turn to him when may resigns.

in my opinion he's a wuss and a wimp....

[Nigel Garvie]

6 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

in my opinion he's a wuss and a wimp....

Boris only made up his mind to be a Leaver at the last moment, when he calculated that it would be in his best personal interests. The following comments apply equally whether you are a leaver or remainer. Although he is popular among the rabid party members in the Shires, he is despised quite widely among Tory Party MPs, not (IMHO) because he pretends to be a leaver, but because they see enough of him to know, that he is a man utterly without principles of any sort. In the dog eats dog world of Tory politics there are levels that even vermin are not expected to sink to. For the general public who actually follow international news, the cringe making embarrassment of witnessing his general buffoonery, and gaff ridden journeys abroad, and watching him - as foreign secretary - make the UK an international laughing stock, was hard to bear. A wuss and a wimp certainly, but so much worse than that.

[Scott]

Bickering posts and replies removed.   Please stay on topic and keep it civil.

 

[bomber]

11 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Boris only made up his mind to be a Leaver at the last moment, when he calculated that it would be in his best personal interests. The following comments apply equally whether you are a leaver or remainer. Although he is popular among the rabid party members in the Shires, he is despised quite widely among Tory Party MPs, not (IMHO) because he pretends to be a leaver, but because they see enough of him to know, that he is a man utterly without principles of any sort. In the dog eats dog world of Tory politics there are levels that even vermin are not expected to sink to. For the general public who actually follow international news, the cringe making embarrassment of witnessing his general buffoonery, and gaff ridden journeys abroad, and watching him - as foreign secretary - make the UK an international laughing stock, was hard to bear. A wuss and a wimp certainly, but so much worse than that.

i watched that TV show when he was travelling around and you are correct he was embarrassing and a total tool,May aint perfect bu she would make mincemeat of him so god help him if he ever went face to face around a table with Tusk

[bomber]

On 3/6/2019 at 2:14 PM, CG1 Blue said:

I'm no Boris fan anyway, but whatever you say about the people involved, the fact is a Leave candidate was never going to get the PM job because the vast majority of their MPs wanted to remain. That's obvious surely! 

so its obvious your dream is over,what's next to dream about for your last few years on planet earth,keep putting the lottery on ????????

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, bomber said:

so its obvious your dream is over,what's next to dream about for your last few years on planet earth,keep putting the lottery on ????????

I sometimes wonder if you live on planet Earth

[bomber]

18 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I sometimes wonder if you live on planet Earth

vice versa ????

[Loiner]

I sometimes wonder if you live on planet Earth

He doesn’t know whether it’s this earth, or Fullers.


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