Acceptance As A Farang Int/land

[smartecosse]

they would lose face and you wouldnt have a face

[GuestHouse]

Something to understand Garro, is the way we all look at the world is through the cultural/social view that is imbedded within us.

When we move beyond our own culture it is very difficult, if not impossible for us to have an understanding of the way our host culture is working and viewing things. With effort and time we can of course come to understand, but I think the mistake many people make is to draw the conclusion that because they the foreigner do not see some judgments or rules that those judgments and rules are not present.

We don't have to go overseas to understand this. How many times would we benefit from seeing ourselves as others see us.

That is our own culture is almost impossible, move to a new culture and it becomes a trap many fall into.

Many times we read or hear from a new arrival full of himself that he has found a place where he can enjoy what pleasures he wishes, without judgment because (slipping in the simplistic argument), Thai culture is not bogged down with western strictures. I've heard and read endless arguments and discussions along those lines.

But the fact is, Thailand is class ridden, personal morals are extremely important and public persona is hugely important.

Thais are judgmental, and they do judge.

They might not let us know what they are thinking, we might not have the experience of their culture to know what the actual rules are.

But for each and every social one of the mores our culture has, Thailand has at least one to match it.

Believe me, if you want to be judged ‘Phu Dee’, then keep the company of ‘Phu Dee’.

Egalitarianism in the selection of your friends, while it is commendable in western culture, is seen by most Thais as at best foolhardiness, at worst as a judgment of your own standing.

[meemiathai]

Tip Three Choose Your Company Wisely

Choosing the right company is hugely important if you want to be accepted and respected. Thailand is a class ridden society. You don't have to seek the company of the hi-so's, I wouldn't recommend it, but neither do you have to seek your friends at the other end of the spectrum.

Truer words were never spoken nor written. Too many foreigners wash up on these shores with the belief that an egalitarian value system is univerally approriate. And that plays back into lanugage. Learn the speech of the class you want to be asociated with and learn how they deal with the lower social orders. In class-based societies people are reassured rather than offended by receiving cues that reinforce social standing.

This has not been my experience.

Neither mine.

[GuestHouse]

I don't think you understand the definition of 'Strawman'.

"A straw-man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted."

The poster was misrepresenting falang visitors to Thailand as Immigrants (they are not as I have pointed out).

A pretty simple case of strawmanning.

That the Thais choose to deny the immigration of foreigners with a 'Non Immigrant Stamp', is not evidence that foreigners are not factually immigrants. I have friends who are foreigners and who have lived in Thailand for 40 years or more, raising their families in Thailand and never planning to leave. They are, despite the Thai denial in the form of carefully worded visa stamp, immigrants.

[kriswillems]

I think foreigners are also not accepted in Europe. It's very hard for a Thai person to get a good job in Europe or to hire a house or apartment.

I believe that the average Thai person has a better attitude towards foreigners than the average European towards a Thai people. People in Europe think that all Thai people that come here are poor an uneducated. Thai people think all farangs that go there are rich and often smart. I think it's better to be looked at as being rich and smart than poor and uneducated.

Of course we have the disadvantage of being overcharged, but this disadvantage will become much smaller once you speak the language (fluently).

We should not expect to become one of them. You are and will always be different. You've to learn to live with that and make the best of it. Being different can also be used in a positive way.

Nevertheless I think the Thai law is one of the worst laws in the world for foreigners.

Edited March 1, 2007 by kriswillems

[meemiathai]

WHO WANTS TO BE SEEN AS "PHU DEE" IN THAILAND!!!

Edited March 1, 2007 by meemiathai

[GuestHouse]

WHO WANTS TO BE SEEN AS "PHU DEE" IN THAILAND!!!

Let me spell it out for you.

What I said was....

Believe me, if you want to be judged ‘Phu Dee’, then keep the company of ‘Phu Dee’.

And the corollary of the statement is?

[samran]

It used to be the case that as a foreigner in Thailand you automatically received respect from pretty much every Thai person you met. That, thankfully, is no longer the case, Thais have soon got caught on to the behavior of many of the Farangs that wash up in Thailand.

....................................

its amazing the amount of "unsavoury", for a better word, of westerners that end up here. People that literally are the dregs of western society that you would cross the street in the west to avoind are now your neighbours in some cases

'crusties', thats what I'd call them.

The other thing that people don't realise, is that in many cases, crusty Farangs are given the benefit of the doubt by Thai's for a while. Then, like all humans, they give up and take you for what you are. It is also roughly about the same time the punter logs on to Thai Visa and rants about Thailand is all of a sudden against him. You want to know what is making your stay in Thailand unpleasant? Look in the mirror!

[tourleadersi]

I don't think you understand the definition of 'Strawman'.

"A straw-man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted."

The poster was misrepresenting falang visitors to Thailand as Immigrants (they are not as I have pointed out).

A pretty simple case of strawmanning.

That the Thais choose to deny the immigration of foreigners with a 'Non Immigrant Stamp', is not evidence that foreigners are not factually immigrants. I have friends who are foreigners and who have lived in Thailand for 40 years or more, raising their families in Thailand and never planning to leave. They are, despite the Thai denial in the form of carefully worded visa stamp, immigrants.

Thanks GH. In the truest literal sense of the word anyone in LOS on a Non Immigrant is not an immigrant, but they do stay for a long time and so could therefore be considered the same as an immigrant. The dictionary term for an immigrant is: a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence.

For fear of generalising to win an argument, please change my statement to read 'visitors' instead of immigrants. I think it could be said the argument still stands.

Terry57, you are right, they are in the minority, but it is strange how in the UK it is their voice most often heard. I have lived and worked in Thailand for about 5 years now, and i don't recall an instance when I felt like I didn't belong or was accepted. It just depends on how you want to be accepted I guess. I am a foreigner in their country and I would like to be treated as such. In this area I feel that the Thais are one of the best Nations in the world for making their visitors feel welcome. Not once have I felt menaced, threatened, alone or unwelcome in Thailand. I wish I could say the same for the Middle East, North America, Vietnam, China and some parts of Europe. Before I get flooded with people rushing to the defense of these nations, I mean that there have been times when I have felt threatened or menaced or unwelcome. Not that these nations are bad. You wanna see bad, go to Slough.

[garro]

Something to understand Garro, is the way we all look at the world is through the cultural/social view that is imbedded within us.

When we move beyond our own culture it is very difficult, if not impossible for us to have an understanding of the way our host culture is working and viewing things. With effort and time we can of course come to understand, but I think the mistake many people make is to draw the conclusion that because they the foreigner do not see some judgments or rules that those judgments and rules are not present.

We don't have to go overseas to understand this. How many times would we benefit from seeing ourselves as others see us.

That is our own culture is almost impossible, move to a new culture and it becomes a trap many fall into.

Many times we read or hear from a new arrival full of himself that he has found a place where he can enjoy what pleasures he wishes, without judgment because (slipping in the simplistic argument), Thai culture is not bogged down with western strictures. I've heard and read endless arguments and discussions along those lines.

But the fact is, Thailand is class ridden, personal morals are extremely important and public persona is hugely important.

Something to understand Garro, is the way we all look at the world is through the cultural/social view that is imbedded within us.

When we move beyond our own culture it is very difficult, if not impossible for us to have an understanding of the way our host culture is working and viewing things. With effort and time we can of course come to understand, but I think the mistake many people make is to draw the conclusion that because they the foreigner do not see some judgments or rules that those judgments and rules are not present.

We don't have to go overseas to understand this. How many times would we benefit from seeing ourselves as others see us.

That is our own culture is almost impossible, move to a new culture and it becomes a trap many fall into.

Many times we read or hear from a new arrival full of himself that he has found a place where he can enjoy what pleasures he wishes, without judgment because (slipping in the simplistic argument), Thai culture is not bogged down with western strictures. I've heard and read endless arguments and discussions along those lines.

But the fact is, Thailand is class ridden, personal morals are extremely important and public persona is hugely important.

Thais are judgmental, and they do judge.

They might not let us know what they are thinking, we might not have the experience of their culture to know what the actual rules are.

But for each and every social one of the mores our culture has, Thailand has at least one to match it.

Believe me, if you want to be judged ‘Phu Dee’, then keep the company of ‘Phu Dee’.

Egalitarianism in the selection of your friends, while it is commendable in western culture, is seen by most Thais as at best foolhardiness, at worst as a judgment of your own standing.

Thais are judgmental, and they do judge.

They might not let us know what they are thinking, we might not have the experience of their culture to know what the actual rules are.

But for each and every social one of the mores our culture has, Thailand has at least one to match it.

Believe me, if you want to be judged ‘Phu Dee’, then keep the company of ‘Phu Dee’.

Egalitarianism in the selection of your friends, while it is commendable in western culture, is seen by most Thais as at best foolhardiness, at worst as a judgment of your own standing.

I am sorry Guest House but this reads like an academic essay and treats a society of people as being one and the same. I can only talk about my experience of living here for five years and I can only talk about places in Thailand where I have lived. The majority of it being in rural Thailand away from the cities. I know from your previous posts thay you spent quite a bit of time living in Thailand (was it 12 years?) and I am sure you gained a wealth of knowledge from this. However, this was your experiences and may be very different from mine.

I have needed to let go of many of my western values in order to be accepted here in the village. The first one to go was privacy. I needed to learn to eat as part of a group instead of in front of the TV. I always considered myself a bit of a loner but this had to change because I hardly get anytime to myself. People can drop by anytime.

I agree with you on the importance of learning Thai. Nobody in my village, except the children I teach in school, can speak English. Not only that but they also speak a form of Issan Thai even though we live in North Central Thailand. The ability to understand and speak this particular dialect of Thai is obviously neccesary for me to socialise. The ability to speak high-so or central Thai is of less importance except when watching TV.

Last week we had a Farang arrive in the village from Loei. He not only spoke very good Thai but also had a Loie accent. This greatly impressed the locals and far from seeing him as speaking Lo-So they saw him as very intelligent.

I have no idea what the Thai's may actually think about me internally nor do I care. I can only go by my interactions with them and I have never noticed any difficulties due to mixing with people of different strata.

[samran]

I don't think you understand the definition of 'Strawman'.

"A straw-man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted."

The poster was misrepresenting falang visitors to Thailand as Immigrants (they are not as I have pointed out).

A pretty simple case of strawmanning.

That the Thais choose to deny the immigration of foreigners with a 'Non Immigrant Stamp', is not evidence that foreigners are not factually immigrants. I have friends who are foreigners and who have lived in Thailand for 40 years or more, raising their families in Thailand and never planning to leave. They are, despite the Thai denial in the form of carefully worded visa stamp, immigrants.

Thanks GH. In the truest literal sense of the word anyone in LOS on a Non Immigrant is not an immigrant, but they do stay for a long time and so could therefore be considered the same as an immigrant. The dictionary term for an immigrant is: a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence.

For fear of generalising to win an argument, please change my statement to read 'visitors' instead of immigrants. I think it could be said the argument still stands.

And here I was thinking that Thailand had simply ripped off the US system of immigrant and non-immigrant status.

To be pedantic though, if a foreigner gets PR in Thailand, I'm 99% sure that their visa becomes an 'immigrant' visa.

[GuestHouse]

I have needed to let go of many of my western values in order to be accepted here in the village

I'm sure you did, or at least adapt them.

Going back to what I was saying in my 'accademic essay'. I guess you'll accept that the breadth of social class in your village is some what more limited than in other places that foreigners might choose to stay, for example Hua Hin or Chiang Mai.

I guess too that there are people in the village that are looked up to, and those that are looked down upon. I would be genuinely shocked if that where not the case.

I'd also expect that your wife/partner/friends would advise you on who not to associate, or at least help you understand the boundaries. Most caring wives/partners/friends would do that.

If you, or others are suggesting that the company we keep in Thailand does not reflect on us and is not a measure by which other Thais will judge us, then that is something I am having difficulty accepting. It runs counter to the observations I myself, and it would seem others, have made.

It would suggest that in this respect Thai society is totally unlike any other society I have had experience with.

[garro]

I have needed to let go of many of my western values in order to be accepted here in the village

I'm sure you did, or at least adapt them.

Going back to what I was saying in my 'accademic essay'. I guess you'll accept that the breadth of social class in your village is some what more limited than in other places that foreigners might choose to stay, for example Hua Hin or Chiang Mai.

I guess too that there are people in the village that are looked up to, and those that are looked down upon. I would be genuinely shocked if that where not the case.

I'd also expect that your wife/partner/friends would advise you on who not to associate, or at least help you understand the boundaries. Most caring wives/partners/friends would do that.

If you, or others are suggesting that the company we keep in Thailand does not reflect on us and is not a measure by which other Thais will judge us, then that is something I am having difficulty accepting. It runs counter to the observations I myself, and it would seem others, have made.

It would suggest that in this respect Thai society is totally unlike any other society I have had experience with.

I think what I am trying to say is that in my experience it is not only the strata of society the person comes originally but more their personal attributes that are important. Yes, there is a hierarchy of sorts in the village but I would imagine that it is far less important then in the the big cities.

I originally came to Thailand because of my interest in Buddhism, especially the Thai forest tradition. The vast majority of these monks came from poor backgrounds but by being monks reached the highest strata in Thai society, even though they maintained their low-so language and manners in many cases.

I enjoy spending time talking to people who share my interest in Buddhism and this is far more important then my social standing. There are many poor but very devote villagers who I believe are very well respected by all strata of society. I feel privleged to be associated with these people despite their humble backgrounds.

BTW, maybe I was a bit harsh calling your post an ' academic essay'

[GuestHouse]

I think you've proven my point Garro. You enjoy the company of the local monks and came to Thailand with that in mind. Would you accept that this has a bearing on how you are perceived in your community?

[garro]

I think you've proven my point Garro. You enjoy the company of the local monks and came to Thailand with that in mind. Would you accept that this has a bearing on how you are perceived in your community?

Yes ...but this has less to do with class and more to do with shared interest. As I say some of the locals, who are not monks, are poor and would thus be considered lo-so but I enjoy their company because I view them as 'good' people. I also think that most Thai's would also respect them because of their good moral standing.

[garro]

I don't think you understand the definition of 'Strawman'.

"A straw-man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted."

The poster was misrepresenting falang visitors to Thailand as Immigrants (they are not as I have pointed out).

A pretty simple case of strawmanning.

That the Thais choose to deny the immigration of foreigners with a 'Non Immigrant Stamp', is not evidence that foreigners are not factually immigrants. I have friends who are foreigners and who have lived in Thailand for 40 years or more, raising their families in Thailand and never planning to leave. They are, despite the Thai denial in the form of carefully worded visa stamp, immigrants.

An Immigrant is usually defined as someone who leaves a country to settle in another country permanently.

Living in Thailand on a Non-Immigrant visa and actually being an Immigrant, i.e. a permanent resident, Thai passport holder but born of non-Thai nationality are two different things completely.

The status of your friend is a long term visitor for purposes other than tourism. He is not an Immigrant, regardless of what he, or you, believes until his status has changed.

I think I'd be correct in saying that many, if not the vast majority of Westerners residing in Thailand would not be willing to give up their status of citizens and passport holders of their home countries to become Immigrants.

As I hinted at before, there's a reason behind them being called Non-Immigrant visas!

Is there any point to this post other then being pedantic?

It is up to the Westerner living in Thailand to decide how they view themselves; immigrant, non-immigrant or moonman. They are not hurting anyone by doing this.

[GuestHouse]

Yes ...but this has less to do with class and more to do with shared interest.

As you remarked yourself the hierachy in the village is less so than in the cities.

Monks, again as you pointed out, are right at the top of Thai society.

So take the other extreme and consider the suggestion that a person who chooses the company of monks will be viewed differently than someone who perhaps chooses the company of, let us say 'gifted amateurs of the nightery entertainment industry'.

I also realise that many foreigners in Thailand have difficulty with the word 'class'. But until someone demonstrates to me that Thailand is not a class based society I can't see any other term to use.

Anyway, this is only one of my TIPS on how to be accepted and respected in Thailand. They have worked for me, and I'm glad to pass them on, but they remain my personal TIPS, nothing more than that.

[garro]

Yes ...but this has less to do with class and more to do with shared interest.

As you remarked yourself the hierachy in the village is less so than in the cities.

Monks, again as you pointed out, are right at the top of Thai society.

So take the other extreme and consider the suggestion that a person who chooses the company of monks will be viewed differently than someone who perhaps chooses the company of, let us say 'gifted amateurs of the nightery entertainment industry'.

I also realise that many foreigners in Thailand have difficulty with the word 'class'. But until someone demonstrates to me that Thailand is not a class based society I can't see any other term to use.

Anyway, this is only one of my TIPS on how to be accepted and respected in Thailand. They have worked for me, and I'm glad to pass them on, but they remain my personal TIPS, nothing more than that.

I have a better understanding of your reasoning now. It was just the word 'class' that I was getting hung up on as I always identify this with the class system of Europe. As you admit yourself a peasant can reach the highest position here in Thailand and have the King bow to him.

I thought your tips were very good overall and it is good of you to share them.

[garro]

I don't think you understand the definition of 'Strawman'.

"A straw-man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted."

The poster was misrepresenting falang visitors to Thailand as Immigrants (they are not as I have pointed out).

A pretty simple case of strawmanning.

That the Thais choose to deny the immigration of foreigners with a 'Non Immigrant Stamp', is not evidence that foreigners are not factually immigrants. I have friends who are foreigners and who have lived in Thailand for 40 years or more, raising their families in Thailand and never planning to leave. They are, despite the Thai denial in the form of carefully worded visa stamp, immigrants.

An Immigrant is usually defined as someone who leaves a country to settle in another country permanently.

Living in Thailand on a Non-Immigrant visa and actually being an Immigrant, i.e. a permanent resident, Thai passport holder but born of non-Thai nationality are two different things completely.

The status of your friend is a long term visitor for purposes other than tourism. He is not an Immigrant, regardless of what he, or you, believes until his status has changed.

I think I'd be correct in saying that many, if not the vast majority of Westerners residing in Thailand would not be willing to give up their status of citizens and passport holders of their home countries to become Immigrants.

As I hinted at before, there's a reason behind them being called Non-Immigrant visas!

Is there any point to this post other then being pedantic?

It is up to the Westerner living in Thailand to decide how they view themselves; immigrant, non-immigrant or moonman. They are not hurting anyone by doing this.

Of course there is a point - if you don't understand the point then why comment?

It's not up to the Westerner how they view themselves in Thailand - it's entirely up to the Thais, after all, it is still their country.

Sorry for interrupting your inane personal conversation with Guesthouse.

Here was me thinking this was a public forum too.

I think you will find that it is up to each individual how they view themselves

[GuestHouse]

Sorry for interrupting your inane personal conversation with Guesthouse.

To remind you Tud, our inane personal converstation was actually 'On Topic'. If you want to open a thread on the correct definition of an 'imigrant', please feel free to do so.

[garro]

I don't think you understand the definition of 'Strawman'.

"A straw-man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted."

The poster was misrepresenting falang visitors to Thailand as Immigrants (they are not as I have pointed out).

A pretty simple case of strawmanning.

That the Thais choose to deny the immigration of foreigners with a 'Non Immigrant Stamp', is not evidence that foreigners are not factually immigrants. I have friends who are foreigners and who have lived in Thailand for 40 years or more, raising their families in Thailand and never planning to leave. They are, despite the Thai denial in the form of carefully worded visa stamp, immigrants.

An Immigrant is usually defined as someone who leaves a country to settle in another country permanently.

Living in Thailand on a Non-Immigrant visa and actually being an Immigrant, i.e. a permanent resident, Thai passport holder but born of non-Thai nationality are two different things completely.

The status of your friend is a long term visitor for purposes other than tourism. He is not an Immigrant, regardless of what he, or you, believes until his status has changed.

I think I'd be correct in saying that many, if not the vast majority of Westerners residing in Thailand would not be willing to give up their status of citizens and passport holders of their home countries to become Immigrants.

As I hinted at before, there's a reason behind them being called Non-Immigrant visas!

Is there any point to this post other then being pedantic?

It is up to the Westerner living in Thailand to decide how they view themselves; immigrant, non-immigrant or moonman. They are not hurting anyone by doing this.

Of course there is a point - if you don't understand the point then why comment?

It's not up to the Westerner how they view themselves in Thailand - it's entirely up to the Thais, after all, it is still their country.

Sorry for interrupting your inane personal conversation with Guesthouse.

Here was me thinking this was a public forum too.

I think you will find that it is up to each individual how they view themselves

Maybe in your fantasy World, however here in the real World it is very much up to the Thais to classify you as an Immigrant or not as the case may be.

You can certainly condradict what the facts are and believe that you are what you are not, but then that would make you an idiot or a dreamer, perhaps both.

I don't depend on other people's classifications to determine how I view myself. That would show a very low level of self-esteem on my part and would likely lead to mental illness as different people would classify me in different ways. It would be very confusing.

"Idiot' and 'dreamer' are just further classifications.

[h90]

Tip Three Choose Your Company Wisely

Choosing the right company is hugely important if you want to be accepted and respected. Thailand is a class ridden society. You don't have to seek the company of the hi-so's, I wouldn't recommend it, but neither do you have to seek your friends at the other end of the spectrum.

Truer words were never spoken nor written. Too many foreigners wash up on these shores with the belief that an egalitarian value system is univerally approriate. And that plays back into lanugage. Learn the speech of the class you want to be asociated with and learn how they deal with the lower social orders. In class-based societies people are reassured rather than offended by receiving cues that reinforce social standing.

This has not been my experience.

If you come with a bar girl or speak bar Thai, you will be seen very low. Saw that from friends of mine who had a Thai girlfriend from the bar.

They were not welcome anymore (alone or together).

[lannarebirth]

The only bias I've observed from Thais against foreigners is related to the bias Thais have for regarding each other. A foreigner who associates with "ban nork" "local" or dark skinned Thais will be ill regarded as Thais regard these other Thais poorly. Thais belonging to what Thais consider lower classes may hold bias against farngs, being as how, in Thailand you're not really anybody, unless you can define yourself as better than someone else. Farangs make an easy, available group for this. Drunken, boorish farngs seem to be regarded poorly by everyone, including most other farangs.

[thaihome]

Sure, view yourself as the tooth fairy if you want. Whatever floats your boat.

Won't change the fact you are not an Immigrant in Thailand if you are on a Tourist or Non-Immigrant visa though, but good luck with your self-dellusions.

Your bitterness is showing through.

In fact, in someone’s village such as Garro here, would the Thais even know about immigrant/Permanent resident versus Non-Immigrant/tourist visas?

I think not, and after a few years of being accepted into the community, with no knowledge or care of actual legal status, the Thais (not the government) would view him as an “immigrant” to thier community.

TH

[garro]

Tip Three Choose Your Company Wisely

Choosing the right company is hugely important if you want to be accepted and respected. Thailand is a class ridden society. You don't have to seek the company of the hi-so's, I wouldn't recommend it, but neither do you have to seek your friends at the other end of the spectrum.

Truer words were never spoken nor written. Too many foreigners wash up on these shores with the belief that an egalitarian value system is univerally approriate. And that plays back into lanugage. Learn the speech of the class you want to be asociated with and learn how they deal with the lower social orders. In class-based societies people are reassured rather than offended by receiving cues that reinforce social standing.

This has not been my experience.

If you come with a bar girl or speak bar Thai, you will be seen very low. Saw that from friends of mine who had a Thai girlfriend from the bar.

They were not welcome anymore (alone or together).

I would agree with you on this.

I went on a trip back to Ireland last year and met this guy who claimed to speak some Thai. He may as well of been wearing a t-shirt saying I go with prostitutes. Apparently he met his wife in a 'restaurant'.

[meemiathai]

garro, I agree with every every word you said in this thread.

Exactly my experience.(observations)

[garro]

garro, I agree with every every word you said in this thread.

Exactly my experience.(observations)

Cheers meemiathai, I agree with every word you said too

[GuestHouse]

Could this be our first TV romance?

[Pepe']

Been here nearly four years now and very, rarely let anything get under my skin. But yesterday was one of those days, I don't know why just riled me a little bit.

I fancied some mango, sticky rice, and cream so I crossed the road and asked the street vendor in very passable Thai, how much. She seemed totally shocked by the presence of a farang and the fact he could speak Thai, turned around to a local female moto-sai driver who barked out in coarse English. 1 Mango, 50 baht!

Now I know in my local market these are only 30 baht, and ok so it is only 20 baht (which is still 30p UK money and I do live here!), and it may have been the highest quality mango available but anyway, I just turned on my heel without saying anything, and drove off.

What got on my nerves was, I tried to ask politefully as possible in Thai, the girl freaked out, turned to ask a friend how much should she charge the farang. Then they picked a price out of their a*se to see if I would go with it. I frequently pay farang prices with a smile and without batting an eye-lid, but that moto-sai b*tch just ticked me off I tried to speak Thai, and she replied in English which I regard as fairly rude anyway. How do they know I speak English?

Anyway if anyone does pay 50baht for 1 mango and some sticky rice I guess I just made complete twonk of myself.

JJ.

____________________________________________________

You see what happens when you take them seriously.

My play in a situation like this is to smile mabey laugh a little,shake my head and say "no, no" then put the fair amount in front of her face.

I can't recall this technique ever failing. They' always take your money, guaranteed...

[astral]

Get married and you will be accepted.

A few days after we were married I was in the market with my wife's brother.

He was asked, "who is the farang".

The answer.......... "My brother in law".

I felt really happy.