Concerned In Run Up To New Rules

[ericd]

I am a UK citizen. I am over 55years. I have lived in Thailand since Nov 2002.

Originally I arrived on a Non O multiple entry which expired in October of last year 2003. Right around the APEC scare and no longer sending passports out of the country.

My Non O visa application was based on my marriage to a Thai woman in the UK. Unfortunately she left me just before OUR planned return to Thailand. I however used the non- O obtained until it expired in December 2003. Since then I have existed on 30 day Tourist visas.

I have now built a home and live with my new Thai girlfriend.

I am awaiting a divorce in the UK and though now in process it looks to be three to six months before it is absolute and Im then free to marry again. ( Comments about gluttons for punishment can wait!)

I have enough income to satisfy the Bt400,000 new marriage requirements but I would be hard pressed to meet the Bt 800,000 retirement requirements. Especially till the divorce is sorted. Some assets are currently frozen in the UK.

When I did my last border run the immigration guy scrutinised the 6 X 30 day tourist visas but said nothing. I have left the country and re- entered for reasons other than border runs. Thats why theres now 6 visas.

Am I right in thinking

a/ I cannot get a new non - O without a marriage certificate ie in Penang

b/ What visas can / should I get to enable me to stay until my divorce is final and I marry again. More tourist visas? Would that be acceptable?

c/ I have a copy of my not yet ex wifes Thai passport and my UK marriage documents. Could I use these again in Penang or where for a non- O as Im still technically married to a Thai.

Your advice would be much appreciated

Ericd

[ericd]

I am so very sad to be the only reply TO MY OWN POST. I have looked at the wealth of information provided to most if not all who write and I am deeply saddened that no one could be bothered to reply to me at a time when I felt to be possibly deep in the proverbial.

Never mind. Cool heart.

Where are you - the ubiquitous Dr Pat Pong?

So I look for my own solutions.

According to the "immigration Div 3 " website - the current requrements for a retirement extension for a person aged 55 - 59 are Bt 500,000 in the bank OR an income of Bt50,000 per month. IS THIS CORRECT AT LEAST FOR APPLICATIONS PRIOR TO 10 JULY? And is this grandfathered?

ANY REPLY WOULD BE APPRECIATED. ESPECIALLY IF CONTRUCTIVE, meaningful or helpful.

[ajahnlau]

Eric your still legally married so you can still obtain a legal non-imm o visa. Try for a double or multiple so you have some time to save more money and get divorce finalized. According to immig. in Phuket no grandfathering.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The retirement visa's now require 800,000 baht, and are available to retiree's over 50 years.

[astral]

I agree with Ajarnlau, you are still married until your divorce goes through.

Do you have a copy of your wife's id card, or passport?

If so then apply for a multi-entry visa in Penang.

Probably a good idea to show the bank book as well.

After one year your situation should have settled and you can apply next year with your new marriage certificate.

[Fist]

You can no longer get a 1 year multiple entry visa in Penang but you will get a single entry. You must then apply in Bangkok if you require an extension.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but this is not only the case in Penang but in all Thai Embassies.

[lopburi3]

You can no longer get a 1 year multiple entry visa in Penang but you will get a single entry. You must then apply in Bangkok if you require an extension.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but this is not only the case in Penang but in all Thai Embassies.

Has this happened in the last week or so? I recall people posting about getting multi entry non O from Penang quite recently.

[Fist]

Yes I was in Penang on Thursday last week. I had all the required paper work with me marriage certifficate etc.etc. Apparantly a letter had been sent to the Embassy instrcting them to stop issuing multiples. We were a party of 5 people and no one fot a multiple.

Who know, but I suppose it could be just a part of tightening things up and transferring control to Bangkok.......I don't know if the other embassies within shooting distance like Singapore and KL have been affected but my understanding NOW is that emabssies in countries like the UK, USA etc are not affected.

[george]

Yes, it is confirmed from several members that Penang does not issue multiple entry visas anymore.

[Axel]

Somehow I get a feeling, Thai Visa is too big and too manypeople have been reading about Penang being easy.

Hope this will not extent to other consulates often mentioned here.

[possom]

perhaps the reason is no financial requirement for non imm o multi entry ,where as proof of financial status required for 1 year extension .maybe the 1 year extension is the path immigration wants people to take ,as it is reasonable to presume people applying in penang are resident in the kingdom ,as opposed to applying in home country ,where that assumption can not be made. seems there will be no escaping financial requirements! good luck to you all !!!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

perhaps the reason is no financial requirement for non imm o multi entry ,where as proof of financial status required for 1 year extension .maybe the 1 year extension is the path immigration wants people to take ,as it is reasonable to presume people applying in penang are resident in the kingdom ,as opposed to applying in home country ,where that assumption can not be made. seems there will be no escaping financial requirements! good luck to you all !!!

Possum ..... I think that you put your finger on it. It is plain that, without a decent reason, a married, or a retiree seeking regular one year multi's is avoiding financial obligations required for extensions. A shady visa agency is trying to re-establish in BKK. Running Passports across borders etc. A V O I D at ALL costs

[sabaijai]

You can no longer get a 1 year multiple entry visa in Penang but you will get a single entry. You must then apply in Bangkok if you require an extension.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but this is not only the case in Penang but in all Thai Embassies.

The way I understand it is the only way you can get a multiple entry non-B is in your own country, and for business reasons only.

Non-immigrant visas obtained in countries other than your home country are usually issued for single entry only, and you're expected to extend your stay for a full year (assuming you qualify for whatever reason) in country after arrival.

Once the you have a permit to stay for a year, you can request a multiple re-entry permit and then you're laughing. Every bit as good as a multiple entry Non, in fact better because you don't have to leave the country every 90 days.

I'm sure there are still a few Thai embassies and consulates who might make an exception. Maybe just not Penang ...

Edited June 9, 2004 by sabaijai

[udon]

I'm very surprised to hear the news about Penang.

Is Penang a consulate run by Malaysians or an Embassy outpost?

I ask because the BNE consul told me last August that Penang would be under new (flexible) management, similar to BNE by now.

[Indo-Siam]

I have had several clients tell me that Thai diplomatic posts within SE Asia have told them that they are allowed only to issue 90-day, single-entry non-immigrant entry permits to third-country nationals applying there - for the (absolutely correct) reason that if you seek to remain in Thailand for more than 90 days, you must meet Thailand's specified criteria for being granted long-term stay - and in that case, only a single entry 90 day visa is needed. If you meet qualifying criteria for long-term stay, as soon as your are within 30 days of expiration,you apply for a long-term extension. With that, you no longer need any visa - you just need a re-entry permit. So - anyone in this category would not be concerned about only receiving a single-entry 90 day visa.

Citizens of the country in which the Embassy is located are still allowed to get one-year multiple-entry visas. The restriction is just on third-country nationals. In effect, they have a fairly clear profile of low-income foreigners who can't meet criteria to obtain long-term entry permits, and they figure that most of these individuals will not have money to return to home countries for proper one-year visas. So this becomes somewhat of a self-selecting process - if you scrape your way to Penang or Vientienne, they are going to force you to either meet long-stay requiremnents properly within 90 days, or hit the road.

I believe that this policy has been in place since before the APEC Conference last September.

I know nothing of the specifics, but - in general - I think that the overall trend is toward eliminating the fairly comical past pattern whereby the visa issuance practices of Thai diplomatic posts in the region were almost tailor-made to allow low-income westerners to achieve perpetual defacto residence, without meeting Immigration Bureau's published criteria for long-term stay.

Good luck!

Indo-Siam

[ovenman]

I ask because the BNE consul told me last August that Penang would be under new (flexible) management, similar to BNE by now.

To sound a bit Clintonesque, I suppose that depends on what you mean by flexible. My take on flexible as it pertains to these situations is that a flexible consular post can issue a visa with minimal supporting paperwork but still cannot issue a visa that they are told by the higher powers is verboten.

[ovenman]

I have had several clients tell me that Thai diplomatic posts within SE Asia have told them that they are allowed only to issue 90-day, single-entry non-immigrant entry permits to third-country nationals applying there

This type of system is not restricted to the Thais. When I wanted to apply for a ten-year multi-entry visa for India, I needed to do that in my home country (the US). The Indian consular posts in Thailand would only issue me the standard six-month multi-entry visa.

[pmugghc]

sabaijai wrote:

Once the you have a permit to stay for a year, you can request a multiple re-entry permit and then you're laughing. Every bit as good as a multiple entry Non, in fact better because you don't have to leave the country every 90 days.

What's the deal here with not having to leave every 90-days, is that really the cease ?

Comments on the original post:

I got a 1-year Non-Imm O visa in Penang, Fenruary this year, I'm not married to a Thai, but showed the 800,000 bank book. So I don't think

1) you have to be married to a Thai or

2) the rule was changed last year.

Cheers, Roland

[lopburi3]

What's the deal here with not having to leave every 90-days, is that really the cease ?

If you have "extension of stay permitted up to x/x/x" you can stay until that date and need not leave if you don't want to. If you only have an "admitted until x/x/x" it will likely be 90 days or less that you can stay.

[marquess]

I wonder if this will apply to the states, or a least the honourary consulates there? I suppose there are that many people applying from there?

[dunkinto_farang]

Hey guys I have a realted question:

Could somebody please explain to me all the different types of visas, what they mean, the requirements, and how to apply for them?

I know I'm asking for a lot of information here. Maybe reply with some links to good sources of information.

~thanks

[IsaanAlex]

I just inquired at the Thai consulate in Seoul, South Korea.

Absolutely no multiple type O Visas will be issued; single entry only.

Just 2 months ago they told me to come on in and they would give me a multiple.

Based on this fact, and a comment or two made when speaking to the person with the power to issue the Visas, I feel that this is likely as a result of a directive from above.

IA

[eyebee]

You certainly can still get a non-immigrant 'O' multiple-entry visa, simply for visiting friends in the Kingdom at the Hull (UK) consulate. All you need to provide is a letter from a friend guaranteeing to pay in case of unforseen circumstances. Here is the link to the Hull consulate: http://www.thaiconsul-uk.com/Bvisas.htm which gives all the details.

[lopburi3]

Could somebody please explain to me all the different types of visas, what they mean, the requirements, and how to apply for them?

You will have to DIY that as different Consulates have different application procedures. For general information check the source:

MFA

[CM451]

Today they come for you- tomorrow they come for me.

A friend got back from Penang in April with a one year multi-entry no problem, one month later another friend showed up with the formerly required paperwork (same visa agent) and got three months. Reasons now adequately explained in other posts.

On a different track, Increased requirements- nobody grandfathered in, so I guess when the retirement deposit requirement goes from 800,000 to 1.5 million then to 3 million the Farrang retirees of Thailand will be S.O.L. or grandfathered in? Don't leave home without your Thai privilege card! (no, they would never raise the retirement levels...just kidding)

Good news TAT, tourist arrivals are increasing every month! The touristification of former "O" and "B" visa holders has begun.

More good news other countries are looking like better places to live and Thailand is still a nice place to visit! I can't blame them for shaking the tree a bit, and

I'm not saying this isnt one of the greatest places to live, but gosh darn it, I still get to decide where I spend my money, and I just made a new decision. The countdown has begun.

[ayakiawe]

Ok I was just in Penang and finally (tried many many times before only to be given tourist visa) they issued me an "O", single entry visa!

So what do I do now to get it extended to one year, multi entry?

Also what will it cost me you think?

PLease if you know give me as many details as possible!

Will I need to leave the counrty st times or what?

Where do I get this visa extension exactly and what do I need to show them?

Etc etc????

Thanks, Aya

[Mr_Pedantic]

I don't think the multiple entry visas stoppage is anything to do with people not showing/providing their financial standings. I think it's to do with Thai immigration not making enough money from visa extensions etc anymore.

When it was 500 baht for an extra month to milk your visa it was a deal, but at 1900 baht you might as well pay 2000 baht to go over the border and come back with another 3 months. It must really be hurting them for local travel offices and the Cambodian Embassy to be raking in all the extra cash rather than them.

Solution: Stop the multiple visa, make them come back for the extra month extensions. A one year visa is of no value if you have to waste it having to leave the country after 3/4 months. No good going to Cambodia border anymore as you'll need a whole new visa. The Butterworth train will once again be choc-a-block, booked well in advance, as before, with people wanting to get their new one entry visas.

Hey Thailand! If you don't want us, just say so, and we'll make our way to a country that does. Just give me good notice so I can sell my bought and paid for house.

[ovenman]

The Butterworth train will once again be choc-a-block, booked well in advance, as before, with people wanting to get their new one entry visas.

Question: Who do we know that owns a stake in an airline that now offers low-cost flights from Bangkok to Penang?

[IsaanAlex]

I don't think the multiple entry visas stoppage is anything to do with people not showing/providing their financial standings. I think it's to do with Thai immigration not making enough money from visa extensions etc anymore.

By giving you a single entry Visa they are making your contact with Thai immigration inevitable; they are essentially puching you into a net, where you have to show 400,000 baht in the bank or a minimum wage. I think it's as simple as that.

With a multiple entry O Visa, as long as you leave the country every 90 days, you don't have to be vetted, beyong your initial application at the consulate or embassy (outside the country).

Or else you schlep in on a Tourist Visa; possibly only 3 times though, before you're off for good-( if they crack down as they're stated they will).

THEN, you are either fully vetted and sitting in Thaland on an O, or a B, meaning that you need to put up with a Thai employers shit-or they ###### well know that your ass is out of the country (and possibly away from yopur Thai family...or you just LEAVE and STAY OUT until you are eligible to skulk back in on another tourist Visa...

Thats why things like this are referred to as a 'crackdown', which if the Thai government does all the things they've been talking about, it essentially is...

IA

[DaveYo]

Interesting subject coming from many of you. I predicted this would happen months ago, and more is yet to come starting this July. Shortly thereafter you will be seeing a mass exodus no doubt. If you want to know why, simply ask Immigrations for the answer.

Some of you has hit the nail in the head. With the long term visa's, getting one around here will be very hard indeed and paperwork with tea money will not suffice. You will be forced to really leave the country and return to your origins to get the long term visa eventually. Now once there finding such consulate may become a daunting task, because they too are under the noose to comply with their orders as given. Also with this they now want to see a few more things to confirm your income and banking and earnings and all will have to match accordingly before such is going to be issued out. Sad to say, yes they are beginning to pry into our private affairs, and they also are going to want to know a lot of your private incomes and how much you actually have etc. Besides weeding out the tricksters, backpackers etc., and of course the hidden nomads that exist here.

So many of us expats now have to really think hard and look into the mirror and review your incomes and prospects of long term stay here. If any of you cannot comply with the new rules that are about to take effect, and if you are married and have familys here, and have homes here or businesses, you might be literally forced to leave and to sell etc, if you cannot meet the new criterias so set forth by the Government. If this is the case some of you might want to start making the plans right now while you can and have such opportunity and get your family secured and all set to go with you on your exodus just to be together etc. rather than be leaving them behind. To me the family is important. On the other hand some of you might be able to make it for another year or two, but what happens after that when they again increase their criterias which they do plan on doing within the near future. This is only the beginning.

Nothing we can do but grit our teeth for the worse is yet to come.

Daveyo