Sell Condo to then put 800,000 into bank ?????

[onera1961]

32 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The West led the end of slavery world-wide - a practice that had been ubiquitous everywhere, until that happened. 

Yes some enlightened people who first acknowledged the problem and then led the efforts. But how does it make your personal achievement? Your birth is just a freak of nature that you're born in the West and able to earn dollars. There is no personal achievement for being born in the West unless you are able to earn at least ten times the average incomes of Thais and spend it here. Thailand has no problem with those types of foreigners as it tries to  escape from the trap of destroying their export economy by poor westerners. 

 

32 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

By contrast, each and every self-funded foreigner - even the "less rich" ones - brings in the money to support several Thai jobs,

May be in the informal sector (may be) but destroys good paying jobs in the formal export sector (65% of the economy). 

 

32 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

As long as there are subsistence-farm families whose young adults need paying jobs (and there are millions of them), every self-funded visitor helps - creating several jobs for as long they can be wisely-encouraged by the govt/immigration to stay here and keep spending.

This economic model will destroy export economy and people who have escaped it earlier have to go back to the same trap of foreign source dependent economic model. May be that's what some people want. Thailand to remain poor forever and supply their daughters to old farangs for marriage to escape the poverty. 

 

32 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

A government with a "our currency is too strong" problem can order the printing of additional currency to fund social/infrastructure development. 

Printing of additional currency creates inflation and perpetuate the cycle. It is economy 101. No economic model supports that. 
 

32 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The same is being done in the West, by the same types of traitors, to destroy our dwindling middle-class.

The middle class is not destroyed in Europe. It is still thriving. But in America it is a different story and different topic and foreign labor is not responsible for that. This topic is for the destruction of Thailand's export economy by foreign sourced incomes. 

 

Glad to see some enlightened Thais are working behind the scenes to rectify the trap. And yes, most enlighten people come from the elite class.

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by onera1961

[EricTh]

14 hours ago, elviajero said:

I think your missing the point of the 800K level. It’s set higher than required primarily to limit numbers of qualifying applicants. 

 

It’s only ever likely to go up. IMO the only way it would go down is if the numbers of expats drastically reduced and they wanted to encourage them back. And I don’t see that happening anytime soon even with the recent changes.

True.

 

If you don't have any other asset in Thailand, then 800k should be the minimum but if you have invested in property, isn't that considered part of the total asset of the foreigner?

 

After all, a property of 2-3 million baht is worth 3 times more than 800k. When combined together it is a lot.

 

Like what I said, you don't need 800k to live in Thailand. 

 

The average salary in Chiang mai is only around 25000 baht and they have savings to boot.

 

https://www.everythingmixed.com/minimum-average-salary-chiang-mai-thailand-2017/

Edited March 18, 2019 by EricTh

[JackThompson]

48 minutes ago, WeekendRaider said:

why would real property be considered funding for living here

The "money in the bank" is now locked-up, so cannot be used for expenses without wrecking one's permitted-stay.  As this is no longer "money to spend," a Chanote should work in a "bond" function, against outstanding/unpaid Thai-debts (hospital or otherwise).  

The whole issue of "unable to collect hospital debts" goes away if real-property were held as collateral - liquidated to pay them, if necessary.  A "lien" against real-property held by immigration would work much better than bank-money system as-is.

But the "rules" have little if anything to do with a practical consideration - less so with each iteration of them.

[EricTh]

14 hours ago, ocddave said:

That would be news to my wife, I hand her 70,000 baht a month to keep our lifestyle going, thats with her also working full-time teaching nursing.

Of course, there are some people who spend 100,000 baht per month but that is considered luxurious lifestyle and not average lifestyle.

 

The average salary in Bangkok is 25,000 baht a month so it is lower in other provinces. That would  come up to 300k per year if you spend all of that money (LOL).

 

https://checkinprice.com/average-minimum-salary-in-bangkok-thailand/

Edited March 18, 2019 by EricTh

[steve73]

Foreigners buying property (condo's directly in their own name, or other types in some other "arrangement") in Thailand might be good news for the property developers & middle classes (who already own property) but it does little to help the majority of the population (the rural poor, especially the youngsters) who are then forced to pay much more to secure their own dwelling.  For this reason I largely support the restrictions put on foreign ownership (although it would be nice to buy my own place). 

 

Rental provide continuous income for the thais (although again it is mostly to the benefit of the developers and middle classes). 

 

The expected spend of retirees at 65k/mon is 6.5 minimum wages, or around 3-4 "average" salaries, depending on province, but it support's many more than that number of locals.  Some (including immediate/extended family) may benefit directly from a "cash contribution", and the rest into the local economy, but ALL of the retirees spend gets re-spent by those who receive it, and again, and again.  The 6.5 minimum wage direct "beneficiaries", probably allow a further 15-25 locals to benefit. 

 

Buying a property and saving the "rent" would benefit far fewer over the long term, although buying land, and building "your" own house does benefit the local economy, at least in the short-term.

 

I can understand why Thailand does not allow property to be used as part of the "cash" requirement, unless it can be mortgaged.

 

I suspect if they encouraged the banks to offer <50% mortgages to release the 800k funds required, many would end up having their houses repossessed, through overspending their sudden "windfall". 

[mosan]

On 3/16/2019 at 10:08 PM, berybert said:

If you sell the house and put the money in the bank how do you prove the money came from abroad ? 

In most cases, one had to import the money to buy the house in the first place unless they paid as they went and the imported funds are not documented. However, you can send the money back to your home country...for a cost. Then you can bring it back in as needed.

[balo]

On 3/16/2019 at 9:23 AM, Toca said:

Do I just sell my condo and go back to renting ??

Short answer : Yes 

 

I sold my condo 4 years ago and started renting instead, rent is cheap here and you can relocate if it gets too noisy in your neigborhood. 

 

If you invested 3 million and can get your money back, that would be my first option. Then just keep 800k in the bank. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by balo

[ocddave]

2 hours ago, balo said:

Short answer : Yes 

 

I sold my condo 4 years ago and started renting instead, rent is cheap here and you can relocate if it gets too noisy in your neigborhood. 

 

If you invested 3 million and can get your money back, that would be my first option. Then just keep 800k in the bank. 

With the caveat that you may have issues when renting and getting residence certification come extension time, just make sure thats discussed upfront with the renter long before signing.

[JackThompson]

On 3/18/2019 at 9:53 AM, onera1961 said:

Your birth is just a freak of nature that you're born in the West and able to earn dollars. There is no personal achievement for being born in the West

Everyone has different circumstances, and "luck" is always a factor.  That does not mean there "is no personal achievement" aside from how much one happens to earn.  Some achieve much without becoming wealthy.  Others are born wealthy and achieve little. 

 

Quote

unless you are able to earn at least ten times the average incomes of Thais and spend it here. Thailand has no problem with those types of foreigners as it tries to  escape from the trap of destroying their export economy by poor westerners. 

Why is a person who spends 4x Thai salaries a year a bad thing?  Three of them beats one spending 10x, and there are many, many times more in the 4x category, so it would be foolish to aim for the much smaller total-pool of potential revenue.

 

Where the argument could be made, are with the poorest of visitors, such as those coming in on "package tours."  They spend very little apiece, but their short-stays (in/out at airports) and frequent movement (via tour buses) stress the infrastructure.  In those cases, the margin of "good effect" may not be worth it.  But, the few businesses who profit from their activity are, of course, happy to take the profits while the Thai taxpayer pays for the infrastructure.  Some of those profits are "re-invested" in "lobbying" efforts to keep it going - and I would be very surprised if Immigration was not on the receiving end of that flow of money.

 

On 3/18/2019 at 9:53 AM, onera1961 said:

May be in the informal sector (may be) but destroys good paying jobs in the formal export sector (65% of the economy). 

Only to the extent the Thai Govt / Central Bank chooses to keep the Baht high - something they could reverse very easily.  It's going the other direction - making currency stronger - which involves the "hard" decisions that hurt - cutting-costs (aka "austerity"), etc.

 

On 3/18/2019 at 9:53 AM, onera1961 said:

The middle class is not destroyed in Europe. It is still thriving. But in America it is a different story and different topic and foreign labor is not responsible for that. This topic is for the destruction of Thailand's export economy by foreign sourced incomes.  

Europe has not yet overloaded it's social safety-net program and destroyed high-wages for ordinary working folks.  They are on-track to do that, however.  The "austerity" has to come, eventually, as they overload the social-service rolls with dirt-poor immigrants.  In the USA, this was already accomplished in the 1980s/90s - only masked for a time by a some speculation-bubbles (dot-com, housing, etc). 

I lived through this - productivity went way up, but pay steadily lost ground against actual costs of living - contrary to the bs govt-statistics which hid/hide the truth.  Often "family income" is used, without factoring in 2 breadwinners vs 1 for the "same family income."  In other words, Dad used to earn 2x more - and that is with the bs fake "constant dollar" numbers, which exclude many costs that are a huge percentage of family-budgets.

 

To the extent Thailand's export-economy is being harmed by a strong Thai Baht, that is easily fixed, if they wanted to do it - and without "de-employing" Thais whose jobs depend on our spending. 

 

Quote

Glad to see some enlightened Thais are working behind the scenes to rectify the trap. And yes, most enlighten people come from the elite class.

Yes, as do the most evil parasitic types.  On one hand, "enlightenment" - in terms of economics and public-policy - generally requires an education, so the children of the "better off" have a much better chance of that.  To the extent a middle-class exists for the working-class, leisure-time becomes available, which a small percentage will use to educate themselves and/or add cultural value via art, music, etc.  Without those who do not need to spend all their time on "survival" work, there is no high-culture. 

On the other hand, depending on how a market is structured and regulated - including if the regulators can be purchased - a parasitic class at the top can become entrenched, and suck up so much wealth, that there is little left for everyone else.  Externalizing the costs of their workers to the public-sector is one method by which this is done.  The "Amazon Tax" effort in the USA successfully forced Amazon to increase wages, but that's a drop in the bucket. 

Thailand requires similar efforts to identify where the policies of some in the elite are doing harm to the country in general.  Hiring cheap foreign labor vs paying poor Thais a good salary (which would enlarge the middle-class) is one way this is happening, currently.  Of course, only Thais can do this for their country; we foreigners can only write about it.

Edited March 20, 2019 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

On 3/18/2019 at 12:19 PM, steve73 said:

Foreigners buying property (condo's directly in their own name, or other types in some other "arrangement") in Thailand might be good news for the property developers & middle classes (who already own property) but it does little to help the majority of the population (the rural poor, especially the youngsters) who are then forced to pay much more to secure their own dwelling.  For this reason I largely support the restrictions put on foreign ownership (although it would be nice to buy my own place). 

Condos use up very little land as compared to the number of persons who occupy it.  Therefore, I don't see condo-ownership as a factor making rentals for Thais unaffordable.  In my experience, there are 3 types of rentals - Farangs + Rich Thais, Farang/Thai mixed middle-class, and Thai-only for the poor.  None of these "drive out" the existence of the others. 

But I do agree with restricting foreign land ownership, for the reasons you cite - 100% - not only due to increasing costs for locals, but making them renters to foreigners.  Similar with basic-infrastructure - should all be Thai controlled, not money siphoned off to corporations operating offshore who can then hold the nation hostage, leading to instability (see Bolivia and the Water supply).  Sometimes bringing in foreign-expertise can be helpful (offshore drilling technology, for example), but when it is done by buying off traitor-politicians (as is often the case), it is rarely a good deal for the general-populace.

[wreckingcountry]

I paid the ultimate penalty of trying to ‘belong’ in Thailand, because I was silly enough to take my cash out of the Kasikorn bank to buy a condo (mortgage free).
However, when my visa consultant contacted immigration to renew my retirement visa they informed her that whilst I held a B3 Million mortgage free condo, that was not enough proof of financial stability and that I also need have B800,000 cash in the bank !!

It is difficult not to just give up and pack up to eliminate the almost daily need to confront bonehead autocratic bureaucrats possessing zero common sense ….. or am I just not seeing the logic? Do I just sell my condo and go back to renting ?? 

Rather stupid thing to buy property here and Hoping the crazy immigration rules would accept that ! They don’t you here !


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[mikebell]

On 3/16/2019 at 10:10 AM, EricTh said:

I made the same mistake as you. I am also considering selling my house and just rent.

 

My house is worth more than the 800k, immigration should take into account our property purchases as well.

I am preparing to do just that BUT it's a buyers' market as more and more ex-pats are doing the same & the only people who can afford these houses are ex-pats and there are fewer each year as the word gets out.

[EricTh]

5 minutes ago, mikebell said:

I am preparing to do just that BUT it's a buyers' market as more and more ex-pats are doing the same & the only people who can afford these houses are ex-pats and there are fewer each year as the word gets out.

Well , we have to wait until it's a sellers' market, when do you think that  will happen?

[ThaiBunny]

6 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Well , we have to wait until it's a sellers' market, when do you think that  will happen?

Given Thailand's climate, the usual option of hell freezing over is even less attainable