Stop Brexit: A million people sign UK petition to stay in EU

[7by7]

Just now, vinny41 said:

Who cares about percentages I don't but I do know 286 MP voting for May deal is a higher number than the 268 voting for a  2nd referendum May deal vote had 18 more MP's than the 2nd referendum deal vote

 

17 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

As i said before, if you have a problem with the article using the percentages of those who actually voted, take it up with The New Statesman!

 But you are missing the point; 268 MPs voted in favour of a second referendum. That is a significant number, no matter how many voted for May's deal.

 

Of course, that support for a second referendum is growing both inside and outside parliament is an anathema to you and your fellow Brexiteers; it's the last thing you want!

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I repeat, the link you provided says not; ok to be 100% accurate, not to any significant degree.

Incorrect your have forgotten about the fullfact claim that 

You can sign the Revoke Article 50 petition using any name you want.

and their 

Conclusion

It is possible to sign using a false name.

[7by7]

11 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Incorrect your have forgotten about the fullfact claim that 

You can sign the Revoke Article 50 petition using any name you want.

and their 

Conclusion

It is possible to sign using a false name.

And you have forgotten the rest of the article in which they confirm if fraud is used to sign multiple times those signatures are removed when, not if, spotted and that those who use any fraud to sign multiple times are not told their signatures have been removed.

 

No one is saying the system is foolproof; but it is not as open to abuse as you are trying to convince people. But let's assume that as many as 25% of the signatures are fraudulent, that still leaves well over 4 million which are genuine!

 

BTW. you haven't said why you tried to convince people that your Farage deception was the words of Full Fact. Ever going to do so?

Edited April 6, 2019 by 7by7
Addendum

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

And you have forgotten the rest of the article in which they confirm such fraud is removed when spotted. That those who use such fraud are not told their signatures have been removed.

 

No one is saying the system is foolproof; but it is not as open to abuse as you are trying to convince people. But let's assume that as many as 25% of the signatures are fraudulent, that still leaves well over 4 million which are genuine!

 

BTW. you haven't said why you tried to convince people that your Farage deception was the words of Full Fact. Going to do so?

The only person that thought that was yourself as anyone could clearly see that my comments about Nigel Farage were my own comments as they didn't exist in the link i provided

Your are getting desperate now to prove you are right and everyone else no doesn't agree with you is wrong

And the article doesn't mention anything about how they can remove fraud if someone use a false name and false address

Even MP's don't have access to the names on the petition 

[wilcopops]

Brexiteers need to stand back and look at where they really are......

A referendum show n to be riddled with questionable practices

No crashing out

No Theresa deal

Extension after extension 

When will they realise they are clinging to a treasure of coal?

[Naam]

14 hours ago, Loiner said:

Project Fear 2.0 notched it up a bit more today. Threats that we won’t be able to take pork pies, Cornish pasties or scotch eggs into Europe after Brexit.
Could it get any worse? Yes, also warnings that there will be a fish and chip shortage! You couldn’t make it up. Well... the Remainers just did.

Chancelor[ette] Merkel issued yesterday an executive order which bans imports of Haggis after Brexit.

[lannarebirth]

2 minutes ago, Naam said:

Chancelor[ette] Merkel issued yesterday an executive order which bans imports of Haggis after Brexit.

She's only getting around to that now?

[Naam]

3 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

She's only getting around to that now?

the favourite dish of her late mentor Chancellor Helmut Kohl was "Saumagen" which is the German equivalent of Haggis (but delicious!). the latter caused her hesitation.

 

[lannarebirth]

48 minutes ago, Naam said:

the favourite dish of her late mentor Chancellor Helmut Kohl was "Saumagen" which is the German equivalent of Haggis (but delicious!). the latter caused her hesitation.

 

 

I have had it, and I agree it is delicious.

[ballpoint]

5 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I have had it, and I agree it is delicious.

I've still got it, and I think it's good too.

[evadgib]

5 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

I, too, am against Parliament's failure to deliver.

 

A failure caused by Corbyn playing party politics rather than putting the country first. Had he done the right thing and given his MPs a free vote then this matter would been done and dusted long ago and we'd have left on the 29th March as originally scheduled.

 

Wasting more time? What is more time wasting than asking the EU to extend, extend, extend ad infinitum because parliament can't or wont agree. Eventually the EU will lose patience with us (I'm amazed they haven't already) and say that as we can't agree a deal,  it's no deal.

 

Whether you believe no deal to be the best option or not; who would you rather make that decision; the EU or the British public in a democratic, legally binding referendum?

I would prefer to leave on Friday without a deal and to keep both hands on our finances/assets until agreement is reached afterwards & in the meantime resorting to WTO.

 

With hindsight Cameron & Co should have thrashed everything out beforehand. He & his cabinet are entirely responsible for this 21st century & oh so British civil war yet popular opinion & the media instead prefer to paint 'the other side' with whatever label takes their fancy. In the case of Leavers (by Remainers) those typical insults include;

 

"Ficker than us" yet were educated in the very same schools/colleges/uni's.

 

"Far Right" while actually being perfectly moderate albeit a little miffed as is entirely in keeping with British culture.

 

"Hard" simply for expecting what they voted for rather than accepting a watered down version forced upon them by the losing team with the assistance of a thoroughly untrustworthy Parliament filled to the gunwales with remainers (see earlier comment re Cameron).

Edited April 7, 2019 by evadgib

[evadgib]

This is a bit long but the opening salvo made me laugh & is probably an indication as to what to expect in tomorrows Moggcast:

 

[tebee]

8 hours ago, wilcopops said:

Brexiteers need to stand back and look at where they really are......

A referendum show n to be riddled with questionable practices

No crashing out

No Theresa deal

Extension after extension 

When will they realise they are clinging to a treasure of coal?

 

[tebee]

 

[7by7]

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

I would prefer to leave on Friday without a deal and to keep both hands on our finances/assets until agreement is reached afterwards & in the meantime resorting to WTO.

But that would mean Parliament agreeing to this by then; which it wont.

 

So I ask you again; as Parliament wont decide, who would you prefer to make the decision on this matter; the EU or the British public?

 

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

With hindsight Cameron & Co should have thrashed everything out beforehand.

Cameron did; he had renegotiated the terms of our membership. That is the deal that was on offer at the time of the referendum. That was the deal we would have had if we had voted to remain. You may not have liked that deal, but it was there.

 

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

He & his cabinet are entirely responsible for this 21st century & oh so British civil war

Nothing to do with Cameron; except that we wouldn't be in this mess had he not called a referendum!

 

May negotiated the best deal possible. That deal was not acceptable to the ECG nor the DUP. So they voted against it each and every time. As did Labour.

 

At least the ECG and DUP voted against it on principle; unlike Labour who voted against it because it was May's deal, not Corbyn's!

 

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

et popular opinion & the media instead prefer to paint 'the other side' with whatever label takes their fancy. In the case of Leavers (by Remainers) those typical insults include;

 

"Ficker than us" yet were educated in the very same schools/colleges/uni's.

 

"Far Right" while actually being perfectly moderate albeit a little miffed as is entirely in keeping with British culture.

Yes, some Remainers do stoop to insults, but so do some Brexiteers! What's sauce for the goose etc.

 

In these various Brexit threads i have been called everything from an elitist Tory toff to a far left traitor who hates my country. One member even stated that my Father must have fought for the Nazis in the war!

 

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

"Hard" simply for expecting what they voted for

What exactly did Brexiteers vote for?

 

Some voted for a complete cut of all ties with the EU and the lunacy of joining Mauretania in being a country with no trade deals with any of our trading partners; let alone our largest.

 

Some voted simply to leave the administrative, legislative and judiciary parts of the EU, but keep the customs union and free market.

 

Some voted to stop immigrants.

 

Etc., etc..

 

Even your hero Jacob admitted a couple of weeks ago that he had no idea what form Brexit  would take at the time of the referendum!

 

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

rather than accepting a watered down version forced upon them by the losing team with the assistance of a thoroughly untrustworthy Parliament filled to the gunwales with remainers (see earlier comment re Cameron).

As said, your earlier comment about Cameron is incorrect.

 

As for the rest, I agree; Parliament has shown itself to be incapable of making a decision, so let the people decide in a legally binding STV referendum:

1. leave with May's deal (as amended if so),
2. leave with no deal,
3. cancel Article 50 and remain.

But such an idea is an anathema to many Brexiteers who claim to support democracy but are against this simple, democratic way of resolving the impasse!

 

As shown earlier, whilst May's plan is to keep on asking the EU for extension after extension in the vain hope she can get Parliament to agree to her plan, as amended, support for a second referendum is growing among MPs. So hopefully it will happen before the EU loses all patience with us and kicks us out with no deal.

 

[Patriot1066]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

But that would mean Parliament agreeing to this by then; which it wont.

 

So I ask you again; as Parliament wont decide, who would you prefer to make the decision on this matter; the EU or the British public?

 

Cameron did; he had renegotiated the terms of our membership. That is the deal that was on offer at the time of the referendum. That was the deal we would have had if we had voted to remain. You may not have liked that deal, but it was there.

 

Nothing to do with Cameron; except that we wouldn't be in this mess had he not called a referendum!

 

May negotiated the best deal possible. That deal was not acceptable to the ECG nor the DUP. So they voted against it each and every time. As did Labour.

 

At least the ECG and DUP voted against it on principle; unlike Labour who voted against it because it was May's deal, not Corbyn's!

 

Yes, some Remainers do stoop to insults, but so do some Brexiteers! What's sauce for the goose etc.

 

In these various Brexit threads i have been called everything from an elitist Tory toff to a far left traitor who hates my country. One member even stated that my Father must have fought for the Nazis in the war!

 

What exactly did Brexiteers vote for?

 

Some voted for a complete cut of all ties with the EU and the lunacy of joining Mauretania in being a country with no trade deals with any of our trading partners; let alone our largest.

 

Some voted simply to leave the administrative, legislative and judiciary parts of the EU, but keep the customs union and free market.

 

Some voted to stop immigrants.

 

Etc., etc..

 

Even your hero Jacob admitted a couple of weeks ago that he had no idea what form Brexit  would take at the time of the referendum!

 

As said, your earlier comment about Cameron is incorrect.

 

As for the rest, I agree; Parliament has shown itself to be incapable of making a decision, so let the people decide in a legally binding STV referendum:

1. leave with May's deal (as amended if so),
2. leave with no deal,
3. cancel Article 50 and remain.

But such an idea is an anathema to many Brexiteers who claim to support democracy but are against this simple, democratic way of resolving the impasse!

 

As shown earlier, whilst May's plan is to keep on asking the EU for extension after extension in the vain hope she can get Parliament to agree to her plan, as amended, support for a second referendum is growing among MPs. So hopefully it will happen before the EU loses all patience with us and kicks us out with no deal.

 

The law as it stands says we left on the 29th Remain rely on a convicted fraudster in the last vote how great the UK politics is

 

Thailand is more democratic!

[Basil B]

25 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Parliament has shown itself to be incapable of making a decision, so let the people decide in a legally binding STV referendum:

1. leave with May's deal (as amended if so),
2. leave with no deal,
3. cancel Article 50 and remain.

I am going to be pedantic now.

 

AV not STV big difference, STV is useful when electing multiple candidates but complicated as surplus votes have to be worked out in fractions, also for a referendum counted in many different centres it would be a logistical nightmare to conduct. 

 

A good explanation on STV Vs AV: https://cabalamat.wordpress.com/2010/08/27/a-very-short-guide-to-stv-and-av-elections/

 

What would have been interesting is had the 2016 referendum been an AV vote:

• Hard Brexit 
• Soft Brexit
• Remain

I think the result would have very different. 

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by Basil B

[nontabury]

10 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

I, too, am against Parliament's failure to deliver.

 

A failure caused by Corbyn playing party politics rather than putting the country first. Had he done the right thing and given his MPs a free vote then this matter would been done and dusted long ago and we'd have left on the 29th March as originally scheduled.

 

Wasting more time? What is more time wasting than asking the EU to extend, extend, extend ad infinitum because parliament can't or wont agree. Eventually the EU will lose patience with us (I'm amazed they haven't already) and say that as we can't agree a deal,  it's no deal.

 

Whether you believe no deal to be the best option or not; who would you rather make that decision; the EU or the British public in a democratic, legally binding referendum?

 

 Unfortunately for your biased opinions, if Labour M.p’s , the majority of whome support our country being shackled to the E.u. While the vast majority of Labour supporters want us out of the E.u.

Again it’s now a case of the people versus the House Of Collaborators.

 

 

[7by7]

1 minute ago, Patriot1066 said:

The law as it stands says we left on the 29th Remain rely on a convicted fraudster in the last vote how great the UK politics is

 

Thailand is more democratic!

Onasanya was convicted of perverting the course of justice, not fraud.

 

She is suspended from the Labour party, and in my opinion she should have been suspended from Parliament as well. Had she received a sentence of 12 months or more she would have been automatically barred from being an MP and there would have been a by election in which she could not have stood.

 

But she didn't, so it's up to her constituency to start a recall petition which they have done. this would need to be signed by at least 10% of registered voters there for a by election to be called. She could, if she wished, stand in this by election. Public notice of petition to remove the MP for Peterborough Fiona Onasany.

 

Unless and until she is recalled, she is still an MP and so entitled to vote in divisions. No matter how daft that sounds.

 

But her vote for was cancelled out by that of Chris Davies who voted against. Davies is currently awaiting sentencing after pleading guilty to two charges of fraud. 

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, Basil B said:

I am going to be pedantic now.

 

AV not STV big difference, STV is useful when electing multiple candidates but complicated as surplus votes have to be worked out in fractions, also for a referendum counted in many different centres it would be a logistical nightmare to conduct. 

 

A good explanation on STV Vs AV: https://cabalamat.wordpress.com/2010/08/27/a-very-short-guide-to-stv-and-av-elections/

 

 Ok, whatever it's called.

[7by7]

3 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 Unfortunately for your biased opinions, if Labour M.p’s , the majority of whome support our country being shackled to the E.u. While the vast majority of Labour supporters want us out of the E.u.

Again it’s now a case of the people versus the House Of Collaborators.

Yet another Brexiteer who has to resort to calling my opinions biased because they are not the same as his yet he has no argument with which to counter mine!

 

My opinions are just as biased as yours! Just as valid, too.

 

Whatever the reason for Labour not supporting May's deal, the fact is that Parliament can't or wont make a decision; so let the people decide.

 

As you are a believer in democracy who also feels betrayed by what you call 'the House of Collaborators' I would have thought you'd be in favour of taking the decision out of the hands of the 'Collaborators' hands and giving it to the people!

 

That would be true democracy!

[nontabury]

40 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

But that would mean Parliament agreeing to this by then; which it wont.

 

So I ask you again; as Parliament wont decide, who would you prefer to make the decision on this matter; the EU or the British public?

 

 

May negotiated the best deal possible. That deal was not acceptable to the ECG nor the DUP. So they voted against it each and every time. As did Labour.

 

At least the ECG and DUP voted against it on principle; unlike Labour who voted against it because it was May's deal, not Corbyn's!

 

Yes, some Remainers do stoop to insults, but so do some Brexiteers! What's sauce for the goose etc.

 

In these various Brexit threads i have been called everything from an elitist Tory toff to a far left traitor who hates my country. One member even stated that my Father must have fought for the Nazis in the war.

 

My apologies for shortening your rant,but they do become boring after a time.

Three points I would like to make. 

You ask who would we prefer to make the decision. Well 17.400.000+ British people did just that,in 2016. And then in 2017,when 83% of the British electorate voted for parties that included the clause that they would respect and abide by the people’s decision of 2016, to leave this so called union.

No one stated your Father MUST have fought for the Nazis.I simple asked the question, “which side did your father fight on” for which I received another holiday. So another play on words by you.

 And as for your solution to this Parliamentary impas, it’s basically :-

 

 

 

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory bickering posts and replies bickering about netiquette have been removed. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Patriot1066 said:

The law as it stands says we left on the 29th 

Utter nonsense. That you haven’t left the European Union is a fact and a law cannot change that fact. You could as well enact a law that says England is the 2018 world-cup champion. 

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

But that would mean Parliament agreeing to this by then; which it wont.

 

So I ask you again; as Parliament wont decide, who would you prefer to make the decision on this matter; the EU or the British public?

 

Cameron did; he had renegotiated the terms of our membership. That is the deal that was on offer at the time of the referendum. That was the deal we would have had if we had voted to remain. You may not have liked that deal, but it was there.

 

Nothing to do with Cameron; except that we wouldn't be in this mess had he not called a referendum!

 

May negotiated the best deal possible. That deal was not acceptable to the ECG nor the DUP. So they voted against it each and every time. As did Labour.

 

At least the ECG and DUP voted against it on principle; unlike Labour who voted against it because it was May's deal, not Corbyn's!

 

Yes, some Remainers do stoop to insults, but so do some Brexiteers! What's sauce for the goose etc.

 

In these various Brexit threads i have been called everything from an elitist Tory toff to a far left traitor who hates my country. One member even stated that my Father must have fought for the Nazis in the war!

 

What exactly did Brexiteers vote for?

 

Some voted for a complete cut of all ties with the EU and the lunacy of joining Mauretania in being a country with no trade deals with any of our trading partners; let alone our largest.

 

Some voted simply to leave the administrative, legislative and judiciary parts of the EU, but keep the customs union and free market.

 

Some voted to stop immigrants.

 

Etc., etc..

 

Even your hero Jacob admitted a couple of weeks ago that he had no idea what form Brexit  would take at the time of the referendum!

 

As said, your earlier comment about Cameron is incorrect.

 

As for the rest, I agree; Parliament has shown itself to be incapable of making a decision, so let the people decide in a legally binding STV referendum:

1. leave with May's deal (as amended if so),
2. leave with no deal,
3. cancel Article 50 and remain.

But such an idea is an anathema to many Brexiteers who claim to support democracy but are against this simple, democratic way of resolving the impasse!

 

As shown earlier, whilst May's plan is to keep on asking the EU for extension after extension in the vain hope she can get Parliament to agree to her plan, as amended, support for a second referendum is growing among MPs. So hopefully it will happen before the EU loses all patience with us and kicks us out with no deal.

 

- We voted in 2016, a vote that has yet to be delivered and on which my view hasn't changed.

- The Electorate voted to leave or remain full stop. Names & labels (Brexiteers? Unicorns?) appeared as sticks to beat the successful participants with as soon as the result was known.

- Two of your three options split the leave vote, providing unfair advantage if such folly gained traction.

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Onasanya was convicted of perverting the course of justice, not fraud.

 

She is suspended from the Labour party, and in my opinion she should have been suspended from Parliament as well. Had she received a sentence of 12 months or more she would have been automatically barred from being an MP and there would have been a by election in which she could not have stood.

 

But she didn't, so it's up to her constituency to start a recall petition which they have done. this would need to be signed by at least 10% of registered voters there for a by election to be called. She could, if she wished, stand in this by election. Public notice of petition to remove the MP for Peterborough Fiona Onasany.

 

Unless and until she is recalled, she is still an MP and so entitled to vote in divisions. No matter how daft that sounds.

 

But her vote for was cancelled out by that of Chris Davies who voted against. Davies is currently awaiting sentencing after pleading guilty to two charges of fraud. 

Well spotted 49 ????

(We had noticed too!)

Edited April 7, 2019 by evadgib

[Basil B]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Ok, whatever it's called.

Probably called something else soon when Labour and Tory parties want it after years of denouncing it, because the two party system is finally broken and FPTP does not serve their cause.

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

The law as it stands says we left on the 29th

Covered by the Mogg today:

 

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by evadgib

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Covered by the Mogg today:

 

 

The only thing I’ve seen Rees-Mogg cover with any adequacy is the two options for or against Theresa May’s deal.

[Basil B]

3 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

The law as it stands says we left on the 29th Remain

No it does not...

 

EU Exit Day Amendment

 

 

 Share

Division 394

27 March 2019

The House divided:

Ayes: 441        Noes: 105

Question accordingly agreed to.

Detail of the amendment:

European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 (Exit Day) (Amendment) Regulations 2019

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/718/pdfs/uksi_20190718_en.pdf