Denied entry 2month ago. Entry with new Passport and Visa on arrival possible?

[rekordmeister]

Hello Forum, 

 

first of all, sorry for my bad english.

 

Two months ago, I was denied entry to Thailand at BKK because I had too many SETV. The stamp in my old passport, however, says that I did not have enough money to enter Thailand.

 

I now have a new passport and would like to enter next week with a 30 days visa on arrival (no tourist visa). I have a return ticket to europe after 29 days.

 

- are there any problems to be expected?

- would any other airport be better then BKK?

 

Thank you for your assessment

 

 

[JackThompson]

36 minutes ago, rekordmeister said:

Two months ago, I was denied entry to Thailand at BKK because I had too many SETV. The stamp in my old passport, however, says that I did not have enough money to enter Thailand.

This is because it is illegal for them to deny-entry for how long you were in-country before, or "too many Visas."  Because they want to deny, but don't want to confess to a crime by stamping this reason in your passport, they have to cover their tracks my using a reason that doesn't apply to you, but which exists in the law.

 

36 minutes ago, rekordmeister said:

I now have a new passport and would like to enter next week with a 30 days visa on arrival (no tourist visa). I have a return ticket to europe after 29 days.

 

- are there any problems to be expected?

- would any other airport be better then BKK?

 

Thank you for your assessment

Entry by Visa Exempt is more dangerous than entering with a Tourist Visa.  Immigration can deny more easily if you don't have a visa.

 

Your new passport might help, but the record of your denial will be in their computer-system.  In addition to proof of your flight out, be sure and be carrying 10K Baht worth of cash (not plastic) for a Visa-Exempt entry.  Those two things are your best defense.

 

Don Muang is even a bit worse than BKK, so don't try that one.  If I had to fly in, I would only consider Chiang Mai - but with a TR-Visa, not Visa-Exempt. 

 

You would have no problem entering at any law-abiding entry point.  Unfortunately, neither of the Bangkok Airports (and a few others) follow the law any more.  They make up their own rules, then lie about what they are doing with the stamps - as you experienced the last time.

 

Any land-border entry-point other than Poipet/Aranya would be the best choice - but I understand it is a PITA from further away.  You can do 2x Visa-Exempt entries per calendar-year there w/o a problem.  One way, would be flying to KL or Penang, and coming in by land, then flying onward domestic from Hat Yai.

[elviajero]

A new passport is not going to help as the IO will almost certainly see your old passport and entry history.

 

Entering without a visa increases the chances of being denied again.

 

I doubt you were denied entry for not having enough money. It doesn’t matter how much money you carry they can still deny you entry under section 12 (2) of the immigration act.

 

IMO there is s high chance that you’ll be denied again, but it will depend entirely on the IO at passport control.

[lkv]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

A new passport is not going to help as the IO will almost certainly see your old passport and entry history.

 

Not on the primary computer screen they won't.

[rekordmeister]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

I doubt you were denied entry for not having enough money. It doesn’t matter how much money you carry they can still deny you entry under section 12 (2) of the immigration act.

 

Exactly. I had more then 30k with me and the IO told me, that i had too much SETV in a row. But the stamp in my passport was about "not enough money". Problem was, that i saw my passport the first time again when they sent me back to Laos.

 

Ok, i think it is better to fly to KL and enter Thailand at the land border. 

[elviajero]

27 minutes ago, lkv said:

Not on the primary computer screen they won't.

The IO gets any possible matches and then has easy access to the previous entry history.

[elviajero]

20 minutes ago, rekordmeister said:

Exactly. I had more then 30k with me and the IO told me, that i had too much SETV in a row. But the stamp in my passport was about "not enough money". Problem was, that i saw my passport the first time again when they sent me back to Laos.

 

Ok, i think it is better to fly to KL and enter Thailand at the land border. 

I doubt it said “not enough money”.

 

I probably said something along the lines of ‘no appropriate means of living’. They are effectively saying you don’t have a job or other appropriate way of living in the country.

[lkv]

Primary screen shows a couple of last entries, not the history going back years.

 

That can be digged in the back office.

 

Point being, thousands of people cross an Immigration desk in a day, nobody has time to dig into stuff, they screen based on looks, nationality, behaviour and so on.

[elviajero]

33 minutes ago, lkv said:

Primary screen shows a couple of last entries, not the history going back years.

 

That can be digged in the back office.

 

Point being, thousands of people cross an Immigration desk in a day, nobody has time to dig into stuff, they screen based on looks, nationality, behaviour and so on.

One of the most important screenings is due to the alert they get of matched history based on name, dob, nationality, etc.

 

If they find a link the will almost certainly confirm a match. The IO then has full access to the historical entries.

 

Whether or not the IO takes the time to scrutinise the history is another matter, but in the current climate it’s highly likely.

[BritTim]

As others have advised, do not even consider tying to enter visa exempt by air.

 

Is the SETV you tried to use to enter before still valid? If so, I would use it to enter (preferably still using a land crossing). I appreciate that this would mean showing both your old and new passports, but that would not matter at a land crossing.

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, rekordmeister said:

Exactly. I had more then 30k with me and the IO told me, that i had too much SETV in a row. But the stamp in my passport was about "not enough money". Problem was, that i saw my passport the first time again when they sent me back to Laos.

 

Ok, i think it is better to fly to KL and enter Thailand at the land border. 

It's the same Big Lie they are using always now, to cover-up for their illegal-reason for denial of entry (too many days/visas).  "Means of Living" = "Money" (I doubt they mean "barter") - and if you had more history here, you had proven you had the "means" more so than a new visitor.  

 

That bad-clique of IOs (not all IOs) don't care if you really have the money or not.  For "extensions of stay" here, they don't care if you "really" meet those requirements either - just if they get paid something "extra" for the stamp.  Those controlling that entry-point are neck-deep in that system, which doesn't have a way to get anything "extra" out of tourist-type entries.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

It's the same Big Lie they are using always now, to cover-up for their illegal-reason for denial of entry (too many days/visas).  "Means of Living" = "Money" (I doubt they mean "barter") - and if you had more history here, you had proven you had the "means" more so than a new visitor.  

Again you are ignoring the word "appropriate" infront of "means". That word gives a whole different meaning.

 

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

That bad-clique of IOs (not all IOs) don't care if you really have the money or not.  For "extensions of stay" here, they don't care if you "really" meet those requirements either - just if they get paid something "extra" for the stamp.  Those controlling that entry-point are neck-deep in that system, which doesn't have a way to get anything "extra" out of tourist-type entries.

Corruption without any financial gain!

[post]

15 hours ago, JackThompson said:

....You can do 2x Visa-Exempt entries per calendar-year there w/o a problem. ....

Does it apply to nationals of countries of bilateral visa waiver agreements with Thailand (South Korea for example)?

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, post said:

Does it apply to nationals of countries of bilateral visa waiver agreements with Thailand (South Korea for example)?

The 2 entry per calendar year does not apply to them.

But some border crossings will not allow those that get a 90 day entry from a bilateral agreement to get them.

I think the crossings from Malaysia and Laos will allow them.

[JackThompson]

18 hours ago, elviajero said:

Again you are ignoring the word "appropriate" infront of "means". That word gives a whole different meaning.

Approrprate = Enough Money (for 30 or 60 days, in this context).  What else is appropriate to "support" one's time in Thailand?  Barter?

 

Quote

Corruption without any financial gain!

Immigration makes oodles of Baht from "extra agent fees", "elite fees", "extra school fees" etc. 

 

The corruption-free tourist entries really get in their way - but the bad-IOs at the lawless entry points are doing their best to "fix" that.

[Caldera]

20 hours ago, elviajero said:

Corruption without any financial gain!

We don't know that. It's only a question of time and the next group of corrupt or otherwise criminal immigration officers will be in the news. Even their former boss is being investigated right now. Truth is often stranger than fiction with these muppets, and if one thing's a given, they're crafty at opening up new income streams for themselves.

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, Caldera said:

We don't know that. It's only a question of time and the next group of corrupt or otherwise criminal immigration officers will be in the news. Even their former boss is being investigated right now. Truth is often stranger than fiction with these muppets, and if one thing's a given, they're crafty at opening up new income streams for themselves.

We do know because not one person has reported being extorted.

 

I am fully aware of all the corruption, but there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest these entry denials are anything more than IO’s, under orders, doing their job.

[JackThompson]

7 hours ago, elviajero said:

We do know because not one person has reported being extorted.

I recall a few reports, but agree that it is not a case of "pay me X baht to get through."  That has been tried, and they kept getting caught, so are sticking to financial-arrangements with trusted 3rd parties (agents, etc).

 

7 hours ago, elviajero said:

I am fully aware of all the corruption, but there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest these entry denials are anything more than IO’s, under orders, doing their job.

Whose orders?  Agree the low-level IO at the booth didn't make the call, but given it isn't nationwide, it's not coming from the top, either.

[Caldera]

7 hours ago, elviajero said:

I am fully aware of all the corruption, but there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest these entry denials are anything more than IO’s, under orders, doing their job.

I see very little evidence of Thai officials "doing their job" in general, so at least for me, it's counterintuitive to assume that immigration, of all agencies, have the best interests of their country in mind. Wasn't there a guy who aimed to clean up immigration? That went well.

[rekordmeister]

Thank to all here in this thread for your help. I made it back to Thailand. Took a flight to KL and then by train to the Thai border and then by domestic flight. No problems at immigration, everything went well.