Replacing a Retirement visa (at expiration) with 6 month METV: Can I do it ??

[WaveHunter]

So, I presently have a one year retirement visa that will expire at the end of September.  I do not want to renew it as I am not really retiring here, but I do want to be able to stay in the Kingdom for another six months after the expiration.  I am wondering what my options are.  Can I apply for a 6 month METV from within the kingdom, or do I have to apply from outside of the Kingdom?  If from outside, must it be from my home country?   When I first came to Thailand I had a 6 month METV and being able to have it when my present visa expires would be perfect; just hoping I do not have to return to my home country (USA) to get it, or there will be complications because I was granted one in the past, or there's going to be some issue with the fact that I would be applying for one when my retirement visa is about to expire.  Any helpful advice would sure be appreciated as I can't find an answer by searching this forum or googling.

Edited April 13, 2019 by WaveHunter

[elviajero]

12 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Can I apply for a 6 month METV from within the kingdom, or do I have to apply from outside of the Kingdom?

No you can only apply outside the country.

 

12 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

 If from outside, must it be from my home country?   

Probably. You certainly won’t get it in SEA.

 

Usually they are only available from your home country / country of residence.

 

12 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

When I first came to Thailand I had a 6 month METV and being able to have it when my present visa expires would be perfect; just hoping I do not have to return to my home country (USA) to get it, or there will be complications because I was granted one in the past, or there's going to be some issue with the fact that I would be applying for one when my retirement visa is about to expire.  Any helpful advice would sure be appreciated as I can't find an answer by searching this forum or googling.

Having one before shouldn’t stop you getting another as long as you can meet the application requirements.

[Tanoshi]

I assume you have a 1 year extension based on retirement (not a Visa).

 

To stay another 6 months after expiry, you either need to renew your extension at Immigration, or obtain 2 x 60 day Tourist Visas from a nearby Thai Embassy/Consulate, both of which can be extended by 30 days, totalling 180 days.

 

You may want to consider applying for the Non Imm O-A Visa once back in the US.

[Peterw42]

OP, the advice and options will be different depending on whether you actually have a Visa or an extension. If its an OA visa, a quick out/in will give you another year, if its an extension and you still meet the requirements why not do another extension.

[SEtonal]

If you meet the financial requirements, you should get a 1-year retirement extension.  After receiving the extension, you would no longer need to maintain funds in Thailand since you are not going to attempt to renew in 2020.  You could spend down the 800K lump sum or stop transferring 65k each month.

If you don't meet the financial requirements for an extension, from what I understand, you can go to a visa agent in Pattaya on Soi Buakhao.  The prices I have seen on Thai Visa Forum range from 15k to 25k.  And of course, there is the option of going out of the country for two 60-day tourist visas, extend each for 30 days for a total stay of 180 days.

[WaveHunter]

3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

I assume you have a 1 year extension based on retirement (not a Visa).

To stay another 6 months after expiry, you either need to renew your extension at Immigration, or obtain 2 x 60 day Tourist Visas from a nearby Thai Embassy/Consulate, both of which can be extended by 30 days, totalling 180 days.

You may want to consider applying for the Non Imm O-A Visa once back in the US.

• Correct assumption; "1 year extension based on retirement"...I think (see attachment).  I guess the non-Imm visa is what you get first (on left) and then that is replaced with the extension (on the right)??

• I don't want to renew extension for 2 reasons; first, I plan to resume business activities, and second, I do not want to tie up 800,000 baht in a thai bank for 6 months, and half that amount for the remaining part of the year.

 

So, are you confident that I can approach a  Thai Embassy/Consulate (say in Vietnam) even though I will be presenting them with a passport with a 1 year extension currently in effect?

 

Also, are you fairly confident that I can do this twice (i.e.: 2 x 60 day tourist visas), even though I have already been in Thailand on a 6 month METV, and now on a 1 year extension for retirement?

 

Sorry to ask so many questions but this topic really confuses me and the information (or lack thereof) I get off the web, and even from Thai IMM is mind boggling LOL!

 

Final question, how early before extension expires can I do this?  Just wondering how long the process takes, and if doing it "early" is wise in case something goes wrong and I need to find a suitable alternative...I mean, I'd hate to wait until the last minute, have something go wrong and then not be able to get back into the country (and my leased condo).

Edited April 14, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

50 minutes ago, SEtonal said:

If you meet the financial requirements, you should get a 1-year retirement extension.  After receiving the extension, you would no longer need to maintain funds in Thailand since you are not going to attempt to renew in 2020.  You could spend down the 800K lump sum or stop transferring 65k each month.

If you don't meet the financial requirements for an extension, from what I understand, you can go to a visa agent in Pattaya on Soi Buakhao.  The prices I have seen on Thai Visa Forum range from 15k to 25k.  And of course, there is the option of going out of the country for two 60-day tourist visas, extend each for 30 days for a total stay of 180 days.

Well, there are two reasons I don't want to renew my "retirement" extension. First, I think I might be returning to my self-employed business work and don't want any hassles from IMM about that.  Secondly, I don't like the new financial requirements that not only tie up 800,000 baht 3 months prior to application to renew, but now tie it up for 3 months afterwards as well, and then 400,000 of that for the rest of the year.

 

So, are you pretty confident that if I did renew the extension but was NOT planning a third renewal, I could just draw the money out of the Thai bank without repercussions once the extension was granted?  In other words, are you sure IMM won't require monthly reporting of the bank balance or something crazy like that?

 

Based on what a previous poster said, I'm kind of leaning towards the idea of simply getting 2-60 day tourist visas back to back, but still want to consider all possible options.

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Secondly, I don't like the new financial requirements that not only tie up 800,000 baht 3 months prior to application to renew, but now tie it up for 3 months afterwards as well, and then 400,000 of that for the rest of the year.

Under the new rules it is 2 months in the bank on the date you apply.

 

25 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

So, are you pretty confident that if I did renew the extension but was NOT planning a third renewal, I could just draw the money out of the Thai bank without repercussions once the extension was granted?  In other words, are you sure IMM won't require monthly reporting of the bank balance or something crazy like that?

No reports of monthly checks. Some offices are wanting people to return after the months with their update bank book to prove it still there.

Chiang Mai has not been reported as asking for an check of the balance after the application is done.

Some office are saying it will be checked when you apply for the next extension.

[WaveHunter]

49 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Under the new rules it is 2 months in the bank on the date you apply.

 

No reports of monthly checks. Some offices are wanting people to return after the months with their update bank book to prove it still there.

Chiang Mai has not been reported as asking for an check of the balance after the application is done.

Some office are saying it will be checked when you apply for the next extension.

So two months on a "second" year application for extension?

 

And, you are saying that you're not sure about what reporting practices might be regarding bank balance checking by IMM afterwards, correct?  I mean, if they stipulate that 800k must remain for 3 months afterwards, and then only 400k thereafter, wouldn't it be reasonable for them to put something in place to verify you were complying during the year that the extension was in effect (not just at the time you went in for your third year application)?  So many gray areas when it comes to IMM; it makes it pretty hard to plan effectively and not be caught off balance.

 

I am really leaning towards getting two 90 day tourist visas back to back instead of renewing the retirement extension.  Do you see any problem with that in regard to applying at the end of my present extension?  If it can be done, do I need to leave the country to apply or can I apply within the Kingdom?

Edited April 14, 2019 by WaveHunter

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

So two months on a "second" year application for extension?

 

It 2 months for every extension application now. It was changed to 2 months on the 1st of March when the new rules went into effect.

 

9 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

And, you are saying that you're not sure about what reporting practices might be regarding bank balance checking by IMM afterwards, correct?

No I was only stating what has been reported on this forum about the checks.

Checking that you had complied with the requirements when you apply for the next extension is the practical way to do it. If you broke the rules you would not get a new extension.

13 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Do you see any problem with that in regard to applying at the end of my present extension?  If it can be done, do I need to leave the country to apply or can I apply within the Kingdom?

No problem to apply for tourist visa at the end of your extension.

As said before you can only apply for an a tourist visa at a embassy or consulate. It cannot be applied for here in the country.

[WaveHunter]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

No problem to apply for tourist visa at the end of your extension.

As said before you can only apply for an a tourist visa at a embassy or consulate. It cannot be applied for here in the country.

Is it a simple one day procedure (i.e.: fly to Vietnam, apply, and be on my way back to Thailand the next day) or is it more involved like the 6 month METV was that I got from the US before coming over here?

[Tanoshi]

5 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

• Correct assumption; "1 year extension based on retirement"...I think (see attachment).  I guess the non-Imm visa is what you get first (on left) and then that is replaced with the extension (on the right)??

Yes, you did a conversion from a METV, to a Non O as a precursor to obtaining a 1 year extension based on retirement.

 

5 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

• I don't want to renew extension for 2 reasons; first, I plan to resume business activities, and second, I do not want to tie up 800,000 baht in a thai bank for 6 months, and half that amount for the remaining part of the year.

What kind of 'business activities'?

 

5 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

So, are you confident that I can approach a  Thai Embassy/Consulate (say in Vietnam) even though I will be presenting them with a passport with a 1 year extension currently in effect?

 

Also, are you fairly confident that I can do this twice (i.e.: 2 x 60 day tourist visas), even though I have already been in Thailand on a 6 month METV, and now on a 1 year extension for retirement?

Provided you depart Thailand without a re-entry permit then your extension will cease on the day of departure.

Two TV's + 2 30 day extensions should be no problem.

However you will not be able to keep staying in Thailand by repeating that process.

 

From your initial post, you just want a means to stay in Thailand for 6 months beyond expiry of your current extension, until March 2020.

[Thailand Outcast]

4 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Is it a simple one day procedure (i.e.: fly to Vietnam, apply, and be on my way back to Thailand the next day) or is it more involved like the 6 month METV was that I got from the US before coming over here?

The Thai Consulate in Ho Chi Minh City was a 1 day turn around, and maybe still is, but given the current visa situation, you might be best to allow more time, or at least contact them and ask for their turn around times.

 

I haven't done a visa run to Ho Chi Minh City for a lot of years, but I have a clear memory that they require a flight out of Thailand with your application.   

 

Don't forget to carry 20,000 baht for your arrival. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Thailand Outcast

[WaveHunter]

4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Yes, you did a conversion from a METV, to a Non O as a precursor to obtaining a 1 year extension based on retirement.

 

What kind of 'business activities'?

 

Provided you depart Thailand without a re-entry permit then your extension will cease on the day of departure.

Two TV's + 2 30 day extensions should be no problem.

However you will not be able to keep staying in Thailand by repeating that process.

 

From your initial post, you just want a means to stay in Thailand for 6 months beyond expiry of your current extension, until March 2020.

Yes, I just want to stay in Thailand 6 months after expiration of the extension, which occurs at end of September.  I thought there was a 60 day visa that could be extended 30 days (probably confused the 30 day visa + extension for this), but if there is only a 30 day tourist visa, I guess that's not going allow me to stay here through March 2020. 

 

Another option that's been in the back of my mind is getting an ED visa.  There is a martial arts school in Chaing Mai that's approved for ED visas by the Ministry of Education.  I see their students at IMM almost every time I'm there.  It's all sounds legit BTW, at least from what I've heard.  If anyone has knowledge of them I'd appreciate hearing about it . Here is their website - https://hand2handcombat.com/.  That might end up being my best option, or else it's a trip back to the USA for a 6 month METV I guess...which might be the worst thing in the world ????

 

I guess I'm going to have to research this a little more.  Thanks for the details though; very helpful input and most appreciated ????

Edited April 14, 2019 by WaveHunter

[Ginkas]

You used the term "probably confused", which you do seem to be.

There is no 30 day tourist visa.

There is a 30 day Visa Exempt Entry, which can be extended by 30 days, or

there is a 60 day Tourist Visa, which can also be extended by 30 days.

Choose which one suits you best.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Ginkas

[WaveHunter]

2 hours ago, Ginkas said:

You used the term "probably confused", which you do seem to be.

There is no 30 day tourist visa.

There is a 30 day Visa Exempt Entry, which can be extended by 30 days, or

there is a 60 day Tourist Visa, which can also be extended by 30 days.

Choose which one suits you best.

LOL!  Thank you!  IMM rules and regulations and procedures are hard to understand in themselves but their constantly changing status makes it even more confusing.  Even though I have info on 60 day visas in my notes, something I saw online today made me think they were no longer available.  Anyway, now all I have to be concerned with is if I will be able to get two of them, back to back to get my 6 months total time after my 1 year extension expires.

Edited April 14, 2019 by WaveHunter

[ubonjoe]

6 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Even though I have info on 60 day visas in my notes, something I saw online today made me think they were no longer available.  Anyway, now all I have to be concerned with is if I will be able to get two of them, back to back to get my 6 months total time after my 1 year extension expires.

You can easily get two single entry tourist visas back to back at a nearby embassy or consulate.

[chrisinth]

19 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

I don't want to renew extension for 2 reasons; first, I plan to resume business activities,

WH, If you are planning your business activities within Thailand you do know you will need a non-B (or a non-O) visa for the WP that you will need to be legit?

 

If you plan working outside Thailand, there should be no issue with the 'retirement' extension as far as immigration are concerned.

[Suradit69]

21 hours ago, SEtonal said:

cial requirements, you should get a 1-year retirement extension.  After receiving the extension, you would no longer need to maintain funds in Thailand since you are not going to attempt to renew in 2020.

Do we know that? In theory they can tell you to return in 90 days to show you still have a balance of at least 800,000. If you don't, could/would they cancel your extension or just not allow you to do another extension the following year?

 

i expect that would be one of those things that vary from one office to another.

 

 

[JackThompson]

23 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Well, there are two reasons I don't want to renew my "retirement" extension. First, I think I might be returning to my self-employed business work and don't want any hassles from IMM about that.  Secondly, I don't like the new financial requirements that not only tie up 800,000 baht 3 months prior to application to renew, but now tie it up for 3 months afterwards as well, and then 400,000 of that for the rest of the year.

Works for the second reason, but not for the first.  It is prohibited to work a Thai job on either a Retirement or Tourist entry, so nothing would be gained.

 

If your business is online / offshore, there is no enforcement being done as regards this type of work.  If your business is in Thailand, you will need a different type of stay plus a work-permit.

[WaveHunter]

5 hours ago, chrisinth said:

WH, If you are planning your business activities within Thailand you do know you will need a non-B (or a non-O) visa for the WP that you will need to be legit?

 

If you plan working outside Thailand, there should be no issue with the 'retirement' extension as far as immigration are concerned.

Technically I agree but since I perform my work online (for offshore clients) while living here, I am not really performing “work in Thailand” according to IMM’s definition of “work”, yet it would very easy for an IMM officer to misinterpret that definition, and essentially put me through hell with an investigation.  It sometimes seems to me that some of those people live for causing grief like that for expats!

 

As an example, IMM conducted a “raid” on a co-working space last year where many expats congregate to work.  Nobody was arrested, but the fact that they targeted a co-working space populated primarily by expats who work online is cause for concern.

Edited April 15, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Works for the second reason, but not for the first.  It is prohibited to work a Thai job on either a Retirement or Tourist entry, so nothing would be gained.

 

If your business is online / offshore, there is no enforcement being done as regards this type of work.  If your business is in Thailand, you will need a different type of stay plus a work-permit.

Fact is, working in Thailand as an expat with a retirement extension is a gray area if you work online and your clients are all offshore clients.  Technically that does not violate the regulations of the visa, but it’s a gray area because it all boils down to how a particular IMM officer might interpret the official Thai IMM definition of “work”.

 

I spoke with a Thai lawyer and was assured that my work does not violate my visa regulations BUT I could still end up being the subject of an investigation since “online work” is still a very gray area with Thai Imm officers.

[WaveHunter]

Just want to thank everybody who replied in such a timely way with incredibly useful information...Thanks!  Truly appreciated!  It would be nice if Thai IMM’s own website were as helpful, but until that happens (if it ever does), it’s nice to know there’s somewhere you can get the REAL answers! ????

Edited April 15, 2019 by WaveHunter

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Technically I agree but since I perform my work online (for offshore clients) while living here, I am not really performing “work in Thailand” according to IMM’s definition of “work”, yet it would very easy for an IMM officer to misinterpret that definition, and essentially put me through hell with an investigation.  It sometimes seems to me that some of those people live for causing grief like that for expats!

 

As an example, IMM conducted a “raid” on a co-working space last year where many expats congregate to work.  Nobody was arrested, but the fact that they targeted a co-working space populated primarily by expats who work online is cause for concern.

They thought the foreigners were working "for the business" - and once they realized they were not - in fact, paying money to the business to use the space - no charges were brought.  Bear in mind, that this is very public activity, with many speaking openly about doing this in Thailand on public FB pages, etc.  

 

5 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Fact is, working in Thailand as an expat with a retirement extension is a gray area if you work online and your clients are all offshore clients.  Technically that does not violate the regulations of the visa, but it’s a gray area because it all boils down to how a particular IMM officer might interpret the official Thai IMM definition of “work”.

 

I spoke with a Thai lawyer and was assured that my work does not violate my visa regulations BUT I could still end up being the subject of an investigation since “online work” is still a very gray area with Thai Imm officers.

I think there was one case of someone actually charged who was working for an offshore company - but as an salaried-employee of that company, not freelance.  I would suspect that person did something else that caused problems. 

 

This is more of a labor than immigration issue, though immigration could revoke a permitted-stay for violating the terms of the stay.  This would affect retired and tourist the same, though, as both are "working prohibited." 

 

I don't know how what you do (or 99% who do something online) would show up on immigration's radar.  Personally, I would not recommend boasting and working in public spaces, because, as you say, IOs can do pretty much whatever they feel like, regardless of the actual laws/rules.

[WaveHunter]

5 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

They thought the foreigners were working "for the business" - and once they realized they were not - in fact, paying money to the business to use the space - no charges were brought.  Bear in mind, that this is very public activity, with many speaking openly about doing this in Thailand on public FB pages, etc.  

 

I think there was one case of someone actually charged who was working for an offshore company - but as an salaried-employee of that company, not freelance.  I would suspect that person did something else that caused problems. 

 

This is more of a labor than immigration issue, though immigration could revoke a permitted-stay for violating the terms of the stay.  This would affect retired and tourist the same, though, as both are "working prohibited." 

 

I don't know how what you do (or 99% who do something online) would show up on immigration's radar.  Personally, I would not recommend boasting and working in public spaces, because, as you say, IOs can do pretty much whatever they feel like, regardless of the actual laws/rules.

I completely agree; in reality it's nothing to be particularly concerned about BUT if some IMM officer decided to press the matter, they could make your life pretty unpleasant with requests for documentation of who your clients are, bank records, bla bla bla.  I mean, you know how anal they can get with something as straight forward as a TM30.  I think some of them would relish a little excitement; something different to do just for the sake of relieving their boredom of same-same, irregardless of what they put the expat through.  As you can tell, I am not too thrilled with how Thai IMM works particularly in Chiang Mai.  I'm in ChonBuri presently and things are way better with IMM down here but I'll be returning to CM and I'm just taking all this stuff into consideration.

[JackThompson]

14 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

I completely agree; in reality it's nothing to be particularly concerned about BUT if some IMM officer decided to press the matter, they could make your life pretty unpleasant with requests for documentation of who your clients are, bank records, bla bla bla.  I mean, you know how anal they can get with something as straight forward as a TM30.  I think some of them would relish a little excitement; something different to do just for the sake of relieving their boredom of same-same, irregardless of what they put the expat through.  As you can tell, I am not too thrilled with how Thai IMM works particularly in Chiang Mai.  I'm in ChonBuri presently and things are way better with IMM down here but I'll be returning to CM and I'm just taking all this stuff into consideration.

They key is immigration not knowing "the matter" exists, as it is not activity occurring in Thailand (no Thai clients, and all monetary activity occurring with bank-accounts outside of Thailand).  I do not doubt some would try to make an issue out of it, given the chance.