Global Warming - How Real Is It?

[jamesc2000]

Bush Jr. owns the very small environmental home.

I thot Bush lives in that big White house? Maybe size is relative!

[Jai Dee]

High-level UK team for talks on climate

The United Kingdom is sending a high-level government delegation to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which is meeting in Bangkok next week to agree recommendations for governments on reducing global carbon emissions.

The UK government has been at the forefront of international efforts to combat and mitigate the effects of climate change, working with partners at many levels (G8, EU, UN) to ensure that international agreements on emissions reductions can be made.

The UK recently instigated a landmark debate on climate change at the United Nations Security Council, the first time that climate change has been recognised as a core threat to international peace and security.

The UK government has also taken significant steps to address climate change domestically. The UK is one of few countries to meet - and even exceed - its Kyoto targets.

In March the UK introduced the first Climate Change Bill in the world, with a long-term framework to achieve its goals of reducing carbon dioxide emissions by 60 per cent by 2050.

The UK's chancellor of the exchequer also announced measures in his March budget to combat climate change, including high duties on petrol, support for bio-fuels, and ฃ800 million (Bt52 billion) for projects overseas that help developing countries respond to climate change.

Of this, ฃ50 million is earmarked for a project to reduce unsustainable deforestation in the Congo Basin.

British Charge d'Affaires, Andy Pearce said: "As the foreign secretary stated at the UN Security Council recently, the vast majority of the international community now see an unstable climate as an unprecedented threat that we must meet with much greater urgency and ambition. This is an issue that affects us all and we must all work together to try and tackle it."

Source: The Nation - 28 April 2007

[macb]

My view: Well Evolution the Human Race have abused the planet and Natures gifts thats give us life and what was clean air:

But we just had to mess it it up by taking more than we put back, without thought for the consequences, it all very well saying well it wont be in my life time, but what about our children and our childrens children.

Human Race has been greedy and now Governments spending to much time debating about the outcome and what to do.

Oh yes and there is another planet that may support human life, whats it going to be first come first served or Beam me up Scottie. lets wreck this planet as well.

JAI DEE you got your finger on the pulse again well done;

Heres interesting reading

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

[harrycallahan]

Another cat for the pidgeons,

http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2007-03-04-1.html

Starts with a focus on Mann and his hockey stick with broader discussion towards the end. Long but good and in layman's speak.

"Lie to me once and I have a very hard time believing anything else you say" - Judge Judy

[Mid]

Global Warming - How Real Is It?

[dumspero]

I think we have no sound idea how much any global warming is due to man.

Regardless, it just seems prudent to try to reduce our pollution. Even if the scare mongers are wrong, it could be that our slow poisoning of the planet is reaching the tipping point in some other way we haven't even thought of or discovered yet. Plus, can reducing pollution in a non-panic and globally fair way be a bad thing?

[mikethevigoman]

I have never realy understood how floating ice at the poles that displaces its own weight in water will add to the level of the sea when it melts.

Also how much has the sea level risen over the past hundred years of industrialisation, There are trig points on the cook islands that were put there by captin cook 200 years ago to record the sea level , they still show the sea at the same level now.

A lot of tree hugging brown bread eating sandal wearing CITROEN 2CV drivers causing trouble ! Edited April 28, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[mikethevigoman]

Don't cigarette companies still claim there is absolutely no scientific studies linking smoking and cancer?

No, they don't.

Then are they prepared to pay the NHS etc for lung cancer sufferers treatment/funerals ? Edited April 28, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[Ulysses G.]

Don't cigarette companies still claim there is absolutely no scientific studies linking smoking and cancer?

No, they don't.

Then are they prepared to pay the NHS etc for lung cancer sufferers treatment/funerals ?

I doubt it, but the lung cancer sufferers who smoke need to take personal responsibility for their incredible stupidity anyhow!

Edited April 28, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[dumspero]

AGREED! Anybody smoking these days is making a choice. No problem with that, I have my own vices. Just don't blame others later if we get sick.

[macb]

I thought the Topic was about GLobal Warming :

[larvidchr]

Global Warming - How Real Is It?

Roll on the heat

[Jai Dee]

Top global scientists gather on climate change

The world's leading climate change experts gathered Monday in Bangkok to consider how to lower greenhouse gas emissions to save the planet from the worst effects of global warming.

At least 400 experts from about 120 countries will attend the third session of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the UN's leading authority on global warming.

Two reports issued earlier this year said the Earth was already warming and predicted severe consequences including drought, flooding, violent storms and increased hunger and disease.

The third report -- the last instalment of the IPCC's biggest investigation in six years -- will lay out ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and prevent a climate catastrophe without seriously impacting on the global economy.

An early draft seen by AFP says that world leaders have little time to waste, but that the tools for reducing emissions already exist, with renewable energy, nuclear power, bio-fuels and reforestation all in the basket.

But as wary governments lock horns on key issues, much of the draft will end up on the cutting room floor.

"It's likely to be completely rewritten," said Michael Williams, spokesman for the United Nations Environment Programme.

"It's quite natural that (when) you have 120 people looking at a text that other people have written, they are going to go through it and try and put it into their own language," he added.

Sticking points at the Bangkok meeting could include taxes and caps on carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions and any references to the Kyoto Protocol, which US President George W. Bush abandoned after he took office.

Experts predict that the European Union -- which has pledged to reduce its CO2 emissions by 20 percent by 2020 -- could face off against the United States and China, the world's biggest carbon polluters.

Any mention of nuclear energy in the final draft, which is due to be released Friday, would incur the wrath of many environmental groups.

"Nuclear is a big issue and it is trying to make a comeback and posing as an alternative, a solution, to climate change," said Abigail Gay Jabines, climate campaigner for environment group Greenpeace.

"In fact it is not an option. It never is an option."

The draft of the report's 24-page summary says that the cost of cutting greenhouse gas emissions could be modest, with better fuel efficiency, subsidies for renewable energy and more energy-efficient buildings on the table.

One of the key issues set to be hotly debated when delegates retreat behind closed doors Monday is a so-called carbon price -- finding a way to make consumers and businesses pay for the pollution they create.

The findings of the report, which stops short of making recommendations, will be used by governments and international organisations to map out their own plans for preventing worst-case climate scenarios.

"The IPCC plays an incredibly important role in the political negotiations so people can point and say 'look, this is what is going to happen in 50 years, these are the options available for us to take actions,'" said Williams.

The findings will play a key role in Kyoto negotiations, which will take place in December on the Indonesian island of Bali.

Source: The Nation - 30 April 2007

[Jai Dee]

Cutting gases, rising costs to be centre stage at Thai climate conference

The costs of cutting greenhouse gases and who will pay for doing it are likely to be the key issues at a major U.N.-backed climate change meeting of scientists and diplomats in the Thai capital this week, participants said Sunday.

Some of the world’s biggest greenhouse gas emitters like the U.S. and Australia and top oil exporters such as Saudi Arabia will try to water down language in a draft report, obtained by The Associated Press earlier this month, that suggests reducing emissions can be done with minimal cost to the global economy, environmental activists said.

“Cost will be on everybody’s mind,” said environmental protection group WWF International’s Martin Hiller. “Changing the energy system is costly but we can still afford to do it. The cost for doing nothing is staggering and could be up to 20 times more expensive.”

Developing countries are likely to demand that richer countries help them adapt to warming global temperatures which are expected to cause widespread flooding, droughts and rising sea levels.

“If you take roads or electricity lines or buildings, they will all have to be adapted to climate change,” said Hiller.

On Monday, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a network of more than 2,000 scientists, will open a five-day meeting in Bangkok, Thailand, to finalize a report on how the world can mitigate rising levels of carbon dioxide, methane and other heat-trapping gases.

The draft report, which will be amended following comments from dozens of governments, says emissions can be cut below current levels if the world shifts away from carbon-heavy fuels like coal, invests in energy efficiency and reforms the agriculture sector.

Two previous IPCC reports this year painted a dire picture of a future in which unabated greenhouse gas emissions could drive global temperatures up as much as six degrees Celsius by 2100. Even a two degree Celsius rise could subject up to two billion people to water shortages by 2050 and threaten extinction for 20 per cent to 30 per cent of the world’s species, the IPCC said.

The third report makes clear the world must quickly embrace a basket of technological options — already available and being developed — just to keep the temperature rise to two degrees Celsius.

Making buildings more energy-efficient, especially in the developing world, through better insulation, lighting and other steps, could also lead to significant cuts as would converting from coal to natural gas, nuclear power and renewable energy such as wind.

It says taking “optimal” mitigation measures might by 2030 stabilize greenhouse-gas concentrations in the atmosphere at 445 to 534 parts per million, up from an estimated 430 ppm today.

Achieving the 445-534 ppm range might cost less than three per cent of global gross domestic product over two decades, the draft says.

The damage from unabated climate change, in contrast, might eventually cost the global economy between five per cent and 20 per cent of GDP every year, according to a British government report last year.

Source: AP - 30 April 2007

[Jai Dee]

Climate change conference opens in Thailand

A major climate meeting opened Monday in the Thai capital with delegates addressing how the world's governments can best take action now to avoid the dire consequences of a warming planet.

For the rest of the week, scientist and diplomats attending the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change will work to finalize a report on how the world can mitigate rising levels of carbon dioxide, methane and other heat-trapping gases.

The draft report, which will be amended following comments from dozens of governments, says emissions can be cut below current levels if the world shifts away from carbon-heavy fuels like coal, invests in energy efficiency and reforms the agriculture sector.

"The science certainly provides a lot of compelling reasons for action,'' Rajendrat Pachauri, chairman of the IPCC, "But what action and when is what the government will have to decide.''

Two previous IPCC reports this year painted a dire picture of a future in which unabated greenhouse gas emissions could drive global temperatures up as much as 6 degrees Celsius (11 degrees Fahrenheit) by 2100. Even a 2-degree-Celsius (3.6-degree-Fahrenheit) rise could subject up to 2 billion people to water shortages by 2050 and threaten extinction for 20 percent to 30 percent of the world's species, the IPCC said.

The third report stresses that the world must quickly embrace a basket of technological options _ already available and being developed _ just to keep the temperature rise to 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit).

Making buildings more energy-efficient, especially in the developing world, through better insulation, lighting and other steps, could also lead to significant cuts as would converting from coal to natural gas, nuclear power and renewable energy such as wind.

Less significant but also important would be steps to make motor vehicles more fuel-efficient, reduce deforestation, and plant more trees as a carbon "sink,'' absorbing carbon dioxide. Even capturing methane emitted by livestock and its manure would help, the draft report says.

Over the next century, it says, such technology as hydrogen-powered fuel cells, advanced hybrid and electric vehicles with better batteries, and carbon sequestration _ whereby carbon emissions are stored underground _ will become more commercially feasible.

Source: AP - 30 April 2007

[jamesc2000]

So maybe global warming is not a myth after all?

Its not a conspiracy dreamt up by Al Gore?

And it could just possibly be caused by man made pollution although there is no scientific evidence linking this?

If this is true than maybe I really have to do my bit to change things.

If change starts with me then I won’t leave the tap on when I am brushing my teeth anymore, switch off the tele instead of leaving it on standby or use 95 or 98 petrol in my car when 91 will do.

But I will not stop flying to Thailand for hols although I know planes cause a lot of pollution.

Does anyone else have small do-able things that they can suggest that might help?

[Doza]

Change old lightbulbs to compact flourescent ones and save up to 70% energy - plus they last longer

Insulate your house to save on heating and cooling

Is your fridge too cold? It may be. Turn it up a degree or two

Inflate your tyres properly so your vehicle is more efficient

Take more public transport or walk

Offset your remaining emissions with a non profit or charity

[Clipped]

well...i can actually see all of the pollution that goes into the bangkok atmosphere......i live at the srinakarin/pattanakarn intersection in a 26 story condo....with a view of the entire inner bangkok skyline.

everyday at sunset there is a multi colored cloud of gases that rises up from bangkok, behind it is the sun setting and makes for some spectacular aerial shows

colors like blue,green,purple, orange....caused from exhaust gases of petro and other hydrocarbons and chloroflourocarbons.

anyone that doesnt believe in petrols contribution to global warming, just havent seen it with their own eyes.

i see it everyday, and this is only during the sunset..i 'll put some pics up once the rain clears.

[DFCarlson]

It's certainly true that the Earth has been going through cyclical heating and cooling for hundreds of thousands of years, and we're probably living in a time when the celestial heater is turned on. But it is also clear that at least to some degree the actions of mankind and the production of carbon dioxide over and above the "natural" process outputs has accelerated the warming effect.

I believe that we have gone beyond the "tipping point" of global warming, and that even if all the world suddenly ceased production of carbon dioxide (and how likely is that!?) we will see massive effects around the world due to increasing global temperatures over the next 20 to 100 years. And as always it will be necessary to adapt or face the consequences. The world is not facing a threat, it will still be here, only it will be significantly altered from what we now know. We are the ones facing the threat. Mother Nature will be perfectly OK.

Here's a link to a Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution website which discusses the effect of global warming on the world's oceans. I believe that these people are among those who do good science, and as has been pointed out before in this thread, that's all you can ask. Conclusions? Predictions?? Who knows?! But I believe the evidence is growing.

http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=11939

[PaulUSA302]

Climate change is effecting Mars also. The red planet may lose its icecaps due to global warming!

Who can we blame?

** Cut and Paste from full story **

Mars is being hit by rapid climate change and it is happening so fast that the red planet could lose its southern ice cap, writes Jonathan Leake.

Scientists from Nasa say that Mars has warmed by about 0.5C since the 1970s. This is similar to the warming experienced on Earth over approximately the same period.

Since there is no known life on Mars it suggests rapid changes in planetary climates could be natural phenomena.

The mechanism at work on Mars appears, however, to be different from that on Earth. One of the researchers, Lori Fenton, believes variations in radiation and temperature across the surface of the Red Planet are generating strong winds.

Full story at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece

[larvidchr]

Climate change is effecting Mars also. The red planet may lose its icecaps due to global warming!

Who can we blame?

** Cut and Paste from full story **

Mars is being hit by rapid climate change and it is happening so fast that the red planet could lose its southern ice cap, writes Jonathan Leake.

Scientists from Nasa say that Mars has warmed by about 0.5C since the 1970s. This is similar to the warming experienced on Earth over approximately the same period.

Since there is no known life on Mars it suggests rapid changes in planetary climates could be natural phenomena.

The mechanism at work on Mars appears, however, to be different from that on Earth. One of the researchers, Lori Fenton, believes variations in radiation and temperature across the surface of the Red Planet are generating strong winds.

Full story at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece

Two spaceprobes in two decades, it was bound to happen, next thing going up is one of Pattayas new Plastic police officers to deal with the traffic congestion, we humans ruin everything, this in turn is going to make space exploration more expensive since all the next probes, will have to carry 200 Bath in case they are stopped.

Anyway this is all bull, we cant have other planets in the solar system start heating up, because that would, potentially make, the "mad " scientists who belive that increased activity on the sun is to blame for the temp. increase, not "mad !!", clearly we cant have that.

Long live all the things we really dont know!!!

[Bizz]

Are we all missing the point Global warming is here to stay weather we like it or not.

Most of us now recycle everything down to our little batteries this is a good thing, we have lived in a world where we have squandered our resources for decades without a taught for our children’s future.

Oh yes IV been part of this also foolishly hiding the reality.

Isn’t it time we all woke up and build a better future for our children and pretending that this little bit won’t make a difference. Every little bit makes a difference and as expats we to can make a difference.

[jumnien]

"Global warming" is definitely affecting the weather pattern in Hua Hin this season. It's much cooler this hot season and the early rains are very worrying for newspaper reading farang who see it as the start of some kind of biblical Armageddon. If you are a tree, bird, termite or frog, however, you are partying hardy with the early rains and are probably unsympathetic to the self-inflicted pain of the "think too much" farang. I'm sure if trees, birds, termites and frogs read doomsday newspapers, they'd be terrified as well.

[backflip]

Thirty years ago, the scientific community was worried about "global cooling", based on irrefutable evidence. Where was Al Gore then?

[jumnien]

Thirty years ago Al Gore was predicting that the world's oil supply would be exhausted by 1992 and the Cold War was likely to lead to a "nuclear winter".

[kmart]

Thirty years ago Al Gore was predicting that the world's oil supply would be exhausted by 1992 and the Cold War was likely to lead to a "nuclear winter".

All this whilst simultaneously inventing the Internet too..... What a guy!

[Jai Dee]

Silent Thais keep cool amid heated debate on global warming

A dozen Thai delegates sat mutely during the second day of the closed-door climate change summit, watching officials from European countries hotly debate how best to come up with an effective report to deal with the impacts of the warming planet.

However, the Thais were not alone in their silence. Delegates from other developing countries did not speak much either. Only representatives from four developing nations - Brazil, China, India and the Philippines - actually got a word in at the Bangkok conference.

"We did not say a word because we did not make a prior agreement about who should speak," said Jessada Luengjam, a Thai delegate from the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation.

He added it was more a problem of unplanned organisation than anything else.

"When we had meetings to discuss the draft report, each related agency made a lot of observations and noted how we should react, but when it came to the actual meeting, nobody was assigned to make a statement, so we were not sure who should speak," Jessada said.

Jessada said he wondered why the Thai government did not appoint representatives of non-governmental organisations (NGOs) as the country's delegates.

"Unlike state officials, many NGOs wanted to debate," he said.

Thailand was allowed to have 22 delegates as the host country, while everyone else sent only one or two representatives.

However, only 12 Thai delegates attended the summit yesterday. Almost all of the 22 delegates were senior officials of state agencies related to the issue, including representatives from the Ministry of Energy, the Ministry of Transport and the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment.

It was not even clear who was the head of the Thai delegation.

Kasemsan Jinnawaso, secretary general of the Office of Natural Resources and Environment Policy and Planning, was the most senior official at the conference, but when contacted by The Nation to ask who was in charge, he appeared uncertain, saying: "Me, or not?"

Jessada said that seven pages of the 24-page draft had been discussed as of yesterday evening.

Officials from Switzerland, the United States, Austria and Germany were among the most active speakers during the first two days of the summit - and mostly argued about the technical terminology, he said.

The summit is to finalise the third and final volume of the scientists' latest assessment on climate change since the formation in 1988 of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a UN panel to assess scientific, technical and socio-economic information, relevant to understanding human-induced climate change.

The European Union yesterday organised a press conference at its office on Wireless Road in Bangkok to call on developing countries to take immediate steps to reduce greenhouse gases.

Tom van Ierland, a climate change expert with the European Union and also a delegate of the EU to the summit, said to reach the goal of keeping temperatures from climbing more than two degrees Celsius, an EU ambitious goal, co-operation from developing countries is essential.

"We need to ensure that in the coming years the growth of emissions in developing countries is reduced and eventually capped to be in line with our two degree objective," he said.

Source: The Nation - 02 May 2007

[jumnien]

A room full of farangs complaining and arguing over things they know little about while the Thai people in the room sit silently. Gee, that sounds like a repeat of our quarterly condo association meeting!

[kmart]

All the hot air generated over arguements and debate over global warming by NGOs, pressure groups, activists, blah blah probably does more to harm the climate than Chernobyl.

India and China's "economic miracle" is being powered by coal, and they can't get it out of the ground fast enough to keep up with demand, thats why being a Chinese miner is probably the worst job in the world today. The environmental devastation around the industrial areas of the new economic centres make Mapthaphut in Thailand look like a health resort & spa.

But we like to buy cheap shit, so nevermind...

[Wellyoudidask]

Don't cigarette companies still claim there is absolutely no scientific studies linking smoking and cancer?

No, they don't.

Then are they prepared to pay the NHS etc for lung cancer sufferers treatment/funerals ?

I doubt it, but the lung cancer sufferers who smoke need to take personal responsibility for their incredible stupidity anyhow!

I know we have gone off topic but i do agree somewaht, how much will a pack of 20 have to be before the smoker says 'thats it, too much for me "