Do you believe in God and why

[luckyluke]

26 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Religions started as a way to organize direct experiences of the divine for the benefit of those who have not had that experience (yet).
{This is not simply my opinion, but is a notion found in many books about the history of religion.}

Fair enough, in many books, not all.

Many, I assume, will consider it as good enough.

Not for me, and I also assume, neither for many others, who still will consider it as an opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Sunmaster]

Just now, Tagged said:

And in the end, the blind and deaf lead the blind the deaf

 

In the end, religion hav benefitted me and my lifestyle even I do not believe in man made religion. So I can not really complain, even I know its wrong. I mean the wealth and consuming I have done during my life. 
 

should we feel guilty? I did for a long time of my life, but discovering And understand the nature and The natures law, saved me for the pain rest of my life

But that's exactly my point! In order not to be led by the blind and deaf (be they religious or atheist), the only way is to lead yourself. 

As for the rest...I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Tagged]

12 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Nothing wrong about confusion, it's a common state of affairs, and i find it funny in moderate doses.

Yet the truth is clear and transparent, and confusion is the opposite ☺

it is okay @mauGR1, we are all friends in here, and it is what it Is. Nothing more, nothing less. We will not save humanity by occupy time and space in here ????
 

 

[mauGR1]

15 minutes ago, Tagged said:

it is okay @mauGR1, we are all friends in here, and it is what it Is. Nothing more, nothing less. We will not save humanity by occupy time and space in here ????
 

 

I agree with the spirit of friendship, but discussing the highest principles, even without much hope to find out the solution for all the troubles of this world, it's not wasted time imho.

On the contrary, it's a step in the right direction.

[luckyluke]

20 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Yet the truth is clear and transparent

If the truth was clear and transparent everyone should agree with it.

Now you have some pretending ( even convinced ) they know the truth, because "They know better ",

being "oh so exceptional".

Something they claim they are, and sure agreed by some followers.

It stops there.

Meaning there are people who believe someone's' word, and others expressing their doubt.

I am rather suspicious, I don't believe, just like that, someone claiming something.

 

 

[Peter Denis]

27 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Fair enough, in many books, not all.

Many, I assume, will consider it as good enough.

Not for me, and I also assume, neither for many others, who still will consider it as an opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[luckyluke]

5 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

I, I know,

you just have to convince the others here, who believe/are convinced it is 3 and not 4; or reversed,

as they know better.

[Sunmaster]

Some others pretending, even convinced that they have to write something, yet say nothing at every turn. They feel their nothingness is so exceptional that it has to be repeated over and over and over again. Maybe a not so veiled desire to silence everyone else who is able to express a thought, because he himself has no thought about it. 

"Yes but, it may, or may not be, whichever way we may look, a claim by someone, who believes or is convinced, that he knows more than others, but I may be wrong, but you can't tell me otherwise anyway because you don't know either, nobody knows anything about anything, so why am I even talking, why am I here instead of staring at a static screen on my television? I don't know and I will tell you this a million more times because someone has to." ???? ???? ???? 

[mauGR1]

12 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

If the truth was clear and transparent everyone should agree with it.

Now you have some pretending ( even convinced ) they know the truth, because "They know better ",

being "oh so exceptional".

Something they claim they are, and sure agreed by some followers.

It stops there.

Meaning there are people who believe someone's' word, and others expressing their doubt.

I am rather suspicious, I don't believe, just like that, someone claiming something.

 

 

No, that's a bit too convenient.

As explained to you a few times, apparently without success, if you have a bit of expertise in some field, let's say gardening, you can hear different opinions, and discern a more or less perfect opinion.

So all opinions are not the same imho.

[luckyluke]

15 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

 

So all opinions are not the same imho.

Apparently without success for everyone,

I always stated that opinions have more value than others, if they are expressed by specialist in the matter,

specialist consider as such by everyone,

not by one himself, or a few dealing his opinion.

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by luckyluke

[mauGR1]

27 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Apparently without success for everyone,

I always stated that opinions have more value than others, if they are expressed by specialist in the matter,

specialist consider as such by everyone,

not by one himself, or a few dealing his opinion.

 

 

 

That's a rather clever turn of words, but you'd surely agree that the majority of people don't spend their free time talking about God and the highest principles.

You'd also probably agree that experience in the investigation of the spiritual worlds is more difficult to quantify than the experience in cars, houses or food.

That said, even without having met them in person, some posters' posts resonate quite well with me and my spiritual experience, and surely I can't explain this accurately in few words to other people who are in complete denial.

[OmegaRacer]

15 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Apparently without success for everyone,

I always stated that opinions have more value than others, if they are expressed by specialist in the matter,

specialist consider as such by everyone,

not by one himself, or a few dealing his opinion.

 

 

 

You mean a specialist you can agree to be a specialist, even though you don't have the knowledge to judge if he's a specialist or not?

 

"Everyone" will never ever agree on everything, especially things like God, coz they are subjective.

 

Basically you're saying you're willing to believe whatever the majority of people believes. Who cares if its true or not.... >>>???? ???????????????? ????????????

[Ladidaa]

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

I have my opinion and my ways, but accept there are other opinions and ways =

good. 

 

My opinion and ways are the only true and right ones=

bad. 

 

 

 

I have no opinion, and will protest if others voice theirs = pathetic

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Ladidaa said:

I have no opinion, and will protest if others voice theirs = pathetic

Now, now, stop beating around the bush and tell us what you really think ????

[Ladidaa]

I don't post much on TV but I do read. This threat has been interesting and made me think. Many view points, many ideas...
I don't have a clear idea about it all. For that I would like to thanks the posters here who give me new ideas. 

[Peter Denis]

12 minutes ago, Ladidaa said:

I don't post much on TV but I do read. This threat has been interesting and made me think. Many view points, many ideas...
I don't have a clear idea about it all. For that I would like to thanks the posters here who give me new ideas. 

Thanks for your post and you are welcome...

But be warned, listening to the spiritual Woody's on this thread can be an intimidating experience for the Annie Hall's of this world. ????

 

 

[luckyluke]

23 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

, but you'd surely agree that the majority of people don't spend their free time talking about God and the highest principles.

You'd also probably agree that experience in the investigation of the spiritual worlds is more difficult to quantify than the experience in cars, houses or food.

 

Exactly,

hence every opinion has the same value,

if one hasn't a preconceived opinion.

It  may not necessarily be as such in the mind of everyone.

However this opinion, even if shared by a few, doesn't change nothing in the general context :

the matter is not measurable, not subject to classification, and can thus be assessed differently from one individual to another.

 

[mauGR1]

16 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Exactly,

hence every opinion has the same value,

if one hasn't a preconceived opinion.

It  may not necessarily be as such in the mind of everyone.

However this opinion, even if shared by a few, doesn't change nothing in the general context :

the matter is not measurable, not subject to classification, and can thus be assessed differently from one individual to another.

 

I only partly agree with what you say.

I am convinced that the world as it is at the moment, would be a better place if more people were discussing God, and less people caring just for material fullfillment and gains.

Not saying that material fullfillment is not important, but there's too little balance imho.

[luckyluke]

5 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

would be a better place if more people were discussing God,

 

Not sure,  each of us has his own opinion about the matter.

 

For most only undeniable new facts would change their mind.

 

Something like we do now :

"Every opinion in this particular matter, is the same"

"No, every opinion isn't the same".

 

I will need more than posted here so far, to been prepared to change my mind.

 

I suppose you too.

 

So rather hopeless.

 

 

 

 

[CraigInBangkok]

Everyone is entitled to believe what they want but seems to me that the notion of "god" was invented to keep people in fear. I don't need fear to make me not to be a sh!tty person. 

[mauGR1]

20 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

Not sure,  each of us has his own opinion about the matter.

 

For most only undeniable new facts would change their mind.

 

Something like we do now :

"Every opinion in this particular matter, is the same"

"No, every opinion isn't the same".

 

I will need more than posted here so far, to been prepared to change my mind.

 

I suppose you too.

 

So rather hopeless.

 

 

 

 

Not hopeless, as far as I'm concerned.

it'slike a journey, and it starts with the desire to visit a beautiful place, which might be just in my fantasy.

If you think of a beautiful place, in a way, you are already there.

[luckyluke]

14 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Some others pretending, even convinced that they have to write something, yet say nothing at every turn.

Never experienced that here. 

What I see that all of us here are always repeat the same. 

Only the way change now and then. 

 

 

13 hours ago, OmegaRacer said:

You mean a specialist you can agree to be a specialist, even though you don't have the knowledge to judge if he's a specialist or not?

 

"Everyone" will never ever agree on everything, especially things like God, coz they are subjective.

 

Basically you're saying you're willing to believe whatever the majority of people believes. Who cares if its true or not.... >>>???? ???????????????? ????????????

 

It seems you don't understand my way of thinking. 

A simple example may help you :

I have no knowledge at all in neurosurgery. 

But I will accept the opinion of Mr. Gazi Yasargil in the matter, 

as eminent. 

Mr. Yasargil being recognised worlwide as the specialist in neurosurgery. 

 

On the other hand I will not accept the opinion of Pope Francis about God, gods, creators, beliefs as eminent.

Interesting, sure. 

 

As you wrote God, gods, creators... is a subjective matter. 

 

For example, according to me, Sunmaster's opinion about the matter, has the same value than the opinion of Pope Francis. 

 

Hope this help. 

[mauGR1]

4 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Never experienced that here. 

What I see that all of us here are always repeat the same. 

Only the way change now and then. 

 

 

 

It seems you don't understand my way of thinking. 

A simple example may help you :

I have no knowledge at all in neurosurgery. 

But I will accept the opinion of Mr. Gazi Yasargil in the matter, 

as eminent. 

Mr. Yasargil being recognised worlwide as the specialist in neurosurgery. 

 

On the other hand I will not accept the opinion of Pope Francis about God, gods, creators, beliefs as eminent.

Interesting, sure. 

 

As you wrote God, gods, creators... is a subjective matter. 

 

For example, according to me, Sunmaster's opinion about the matter, has the same value than the opinion of Pope Francis. 

 

Hope this help. 

Well, surely it doesn't help you.

If you disregard so easily the opinions of others, there's no way you can expect others to consider your opinion.

Well, unless you think you are the reincarnation of Napoleon, or something similar.

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, surely it doesn't help you.

If you disregard so easily the opinions of others, there's no way you can expect others to consider your opinion.

Well, unless you think you are the reincarnation of Napoleon, or something similar.

Why these insults? 

In no way I disregard the opinion of others. 

Once again, and be prepared to read it again if I think it will be necessary :

All opinions about the matter of God, gods, creators.. have the same value. 

Of course others may have a different opinion, and free also to express it when they want. 

This is a forum where every member is allowed to express his own opinion providing it is according to the rules. 

Comparing a fellow poster to a dictator may not be allowed by the rules. 

At 72, I am not used to be abused. 

I will of course not report you, putting your insult on the fact that you must have wake up on the wrong foot. 

 

[Tagged]

17 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Not hopeless, as far as I'm concerned.

it'slike a journey, and it starts with the desire to visit a beautiful place, which might be just in my fantasy.

If you think of a beautiful place, in a way, you are already there.

I think I understand what you ment, but not sure. Talking about making confusing posts ????????

[mauGR1]

17 minutes ago, Tagged said:

I think I understand what you ment, but not sure. Talking about making confusing posts ????????

Well, it's clear and I can explain.

My point is that thoughts are as real as matter.

In other words , matter is condensed thought.

Feel free to agree or disagree.

[OmegaRacer]

6 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Never experienced that here. 

What I see that all of us here are always repeat the same. 

Only the way change now and then. 

 

 

 

It seems you don't understand my way of thinking. 

A simple example may help you :

I have no knowledge at all in neurosurgery. 

But I will accept the opinion of Mr. Gazi Yasargil in the matter, 

as eminent. 

Mr. Yasargil being recognised worlwide as the specialist in neurosurgery. 

 

On the other hand I will not accept the opinion of Pope Francis about God, gods, creators, beliefs as eminent.

Interesting, sure. 

 

As you wrote God, gods, creators... is a subjective matter. 

 

For example, according to me, Sunmaster's opinion about the matter, has the same value than the opinion of Pope Francis. 

 

Hope this help. 

You must understand there are 2 types of knowledge in regards to "God": internal and external.
The external knowledge is gained by acquisition from books, lectures, intellectual pursuit. Internal knowledge is gained by introspection, concentration, meditation...in short, personal internal experience.

I'm pretty sure Pope Francis has a very deep external knowledge, after all he's been studying the subject his whole life. We are not privy into his inner knowledge, so not much can be said about that.
Comparing Sunmaster's opinion to the Pope's opinion is quite a compliment actually, at least in regards to the external knowledge. 

If you're looking for experts/specialists in regards to the internal knowledge, there are plenty out there that know more than Sunmaster, the Pope and all of us here combined...Eckhart Tolle, Allan Watts, Buddha, Vivekananda, Ramana Maharshi, Ananadamaji Ma...just to name a few.
The sad thing is that you can't benefit from their expertise, since you can't accept that anyone can have more internal knowledge that anyone else. Too bad for you.

 

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, OmegaRacer said:

You must understand there are 2 types of knowledge in regards to "God": internal and external.
The external knowledge is gained by acquisition from books, lectures, intellectual pursuit. Internal knowledge is gained by introspection, concentration, meditation...in short, personal internal experience.

I'm pretty sure Pope Francis has a very deep external knowledge, after all he's been studying the subject his whole life. We are not privy into his inner knowledge, so not much can be said about that.
Comparing Sunmaster's opinion to the Pope's opinion is quite a compliment actually, at least in regards to the external knowledge. 

If you're looking for experts/specialists in regards to the internal knowledge, there are plenty out there that know more than Sunmaster, the Pope and all of us here combined...Eckhart Tolle, Allan Watts, Buddha, Vivekananda, Ramana Maharshi, Ananadamaji Ma...just to name a few.
The sad thing is that you can't benefit from their expertise, since you can't accept that anyone can have more internal knowledge that anyone else. Too bad for you.

 

The best argument against a purely materialistic vision, is the fact that materialism blinds people in a way, that they cannot accept that reality is much larger than the one which can be experienced through the physical senses. This way of thinking brings the misconception that " if I cannot see it, it doesn't exist ".

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, OmegaRacer said:

since you can't accept that anyone can have more internal knowledge that anyone else. Too bad for you.

Internal knowledge is a subjective concept in my opinion,  impossible to be measured concretely.

Hence each one in particular, is free to give his own value to it.

 

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

The best argument against a purely materialistic vision, is the fact that materialism blinds people in a way, that they cannot accept that reality is much larger than the one which can be experienced through the physical senses. This way of thinking brings the misconception that " if I cannot see it, it doesn't exist ".

I don't claim that something which can't be seen, is automatically something which not exist.

 

I only have problems with the ones claiming that they know better, because they are special, having access / experienced (to) something particular.

 

Once again here I am not ready to believe someone on his word.

 

If the case, who is going to determine what is plausible,  who is a fantast,  and who isn't.