Do you believe in God and why

[Red Phoenix]

2 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Seriously? You really think your last reply was common sense? You're dreaming if that's what you think, but it's ok, I will ignore you going forward in this thread, and hope that you will do the same.

This thread is meant for civil dialogue between spiritually inclined members with an open mind. And while you are welcome to post your world view and philosophy here which can trigger meaningful dialogue, your passive aggressive responses are not appreciated.

[save the frogs]

40 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

This is an incredibly absurd comment. We're talking about institutional religion, from 500 years ago, instilled on an uneducated population. 94.5 percent of the population is Catholic. It's in their DNA. Perhaps you could suggest that over 100 million Catholics must give up their religion.

I was also indoctrinated and it goes way back.

Sometimes people need to break free from traditions.

uneducated population ... those who choose to remain uneducated.

everyone has a computer in their pocket these days.

 

[JensenZ]

18 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

This thread is meant for civil dialogue between spiritually inclined members with an open mind. And while you are welcome to post your world view and philosophy here which can trigger meaningful dialogue, your passive aggressive responses are not appreciated.

And your attempt at moderating this thread is also not appreciated. Leave that to the moderators. Suggesting that I might not be spiritually inclined with an open mind is very "passive aggressive". If you find my post objectionable in any way, hit the report button and let a real moderator decide.

[JensenZ]

13 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I was also indoctrinated and it goes way back.

Sometimes people need to break free from traditions.

uneducated population ... those who choose to remain uneducated.

everyone has a computer in their pocket these days.

 

You won't find the truth anywhere on a computer or in any pocket. There are millions of slants on the "truth" and no one has it solved. The main reason is that God is beyond the physical world and can't be examined by science. It's a matter of faith. Even though you may have escaped the shackles of the Catholic Church, that doesn't mean you've found the truth. You're guessing like everybody else. I myself "deshackled" from the SDA Church, but I'm no closer to understanding God.

 

Also you need to consider that many intelligent people (far beyond our intelligence) are religious people and Catholic. Even people with computers in their pockets. Your post comes across that people who are Catholic are uneducated and ignorant.

[mauGR1]

2 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

This thread is meant for civil dialogue between spiritually inclined members with an open mind. And while you are welcome to post your world view and philosophy here which can trigger meaningful dialogue, your passive aggressive responses are not appreciated.

Well, i guess the misunderstanding with him depends from the interpretation of the word "religion".

In fact, when i say " religion ", i mean it in a broad way, mainly as opposed to "materialism ", which has apparently become the new cult.

I guess many people nowadays see only the negative side of religions and spirituality, so they may think wrongly that I'm supporting organized religion with all its misdeeds, or even the vatican. 

 

[Sunmaster]

I think we need to classify and define the various parts.

Religion and the church are related concepts, but they refer to different things.

 

Religion is a set of beliefs, practices, and values that relate to the nature of existence, the purpose of life, and the relationship between humans and the divine or supernatural. Religion can be practiced by individuals or groups, and it can take many different forms, such as Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and many others.
 

The church, on the other hand, is a specific organization that represents a particular religion. The church is typically a formal institution with a hierarchy of leaders, including priests, bishops, and other religious officials, who are responsible for interpreting and enforcing the teachings of the religion. The church may also have specific rituals, traditions, and practices that are associated with the religion.

 

So, while religion is a broader concept that encompasses beliefs and practices, the church is a specific institution that represents a particular religion and provides a framework for practicing that religion.
One can agree with a specific religion, while at the same time avoid the church. Most criticisms are usually related to the church, but are transferred to the religion by association. Not only that, criticisms of church and religion are almost always used as a criticism of God, which in my opinion is the greatest fallacy. 

Unfortunately, these 3 very different things are often one big blob of undifferentiated concepts in the minds of the materialists. 
 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Sunmaster

[mauGR1]

12 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Unfortunately, these 3 very different things are often one big blob of undifferentiated concepts in the minds of the materialists. 
 

Yup, that reminds me of a popular saying, " washing the donkey's head is useless , you waste time, water and soap, and the donkey get nervous "????

[JensenZ]

40 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I think we need to classify and define the various parts.

Religion and the church are related concepts, but they refer to different things.

 

Religion is a set of beliefs, practices, and values that relate to the nature of existence, the purpose of life, and the relationship between humans and the divine or supernatural. Religion can be practiced by individuals or groups, and it can take many different forms, such as Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and many others.
 

The church, on the other hand, is a specific organization that represents a particular religion. The church is typically a formal institution with a hierarchy of leaders, including priests, bishops, and other religious officials, who are responsible for interpreting and enforcing the teachings of the religion. The church may also have specific rituals, traditions, and practices that are associated with the religion.

 

So, while religion is a broader concept that encompasses beliefs and practices, the church is a specific institution that represents a particular religion and provides a framework for practicing that religion.
One can agree with a specific religion, while at the same time avoid the church. Most criticisms are usually related to the church, but are transferred to the religion by association. Not only that, criticisms of church and religion are almost always used as a criticism of God, which in my opinion is the greatest fallacy. 

Unfortunately, these 3 very different things are often one big blob of undifferentiated concepts in the minds of the materialists. 
 

When discussing religion, church has little meaning for Eastern Religions and even for Christian religions as there are hundreds of churches within the Christian religion... all studying the same book, but deriving different interpretations thereof. Everyday there's probably someone opening a new church.

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, JensenZ said:

When discussing religion, church has little meaning for Eastern Religions and even for Christian religions as there are hundreds of churches within the Christian religion... all studying the same book, but deriving different interpretations thereof. Everyday there's probably someone opening a new church.

Nevertheless, its important to keep the distinctions in mind when voicing your discontent with one or the other.

[Reginald Prewster]

- My Grandfather wanted to stab the Priest with a hay fork after this fellw removed a small decoration fence from Grandmother's grave.

- At the mess on Sunday a Priest was swearing like a fish monger because the donations were some 100 plus 17 cent. He was yelling at the people who had the guts to throm cents into the basket

- In our village the Priest collected personally for the "organization bread fornthe world" at all houses who didn't put a bag with cash in the Sunday's basket.. My dad went to the fridge and slapped him two slices of bread in the hands

- because I was living in an area with lots of immigrants the katholic school denied my childern because they grew up in an unsuitable environment that doesn't support to have my children at this school. They had to go to the so called social burning point.

(Both have a house now, fully paid with just above 30 years old) 

 

I loved Gardening and Farming and one day I saw God. I call it "Mother Nature"

A teacher nonstop, a healer, a feeder, she is peace of mind, she was teaching me how to approach her, what I really could do for her, she brought people to me I could help by give them some food, she let me do my hobby fishing, and she gives me time, so much time... 

As I said, I believe in God, but not the human made one..

God is all around me and its so amazing to see the circle of live everywhere if you open your eyes...

 

On 4/14/2019 at 11:50 PM, DaRoadrunner said:

We are the highest form of intelligent life on the planet, yet we did not create everything we see around us, so who did? There has to be a creator. Take a look at the human genome, it’s too complex to have just happened by accident.

If you don't fit into the life you won't exist . Nature it's Evolution is a kind of intelligence in a permanent competition of improvement. 

[Hummin]

6 hours ago, JensenZ said:

Which leads us directly to the "problem of evil" and Theodicy (defending God in an evil world).

 

1. Theodicy: An attempt to justify or defend God in the face of evil by answering the following problem, which in its most basic form involves these assumptions:

1. God is all good and all powerful (and, therefore, all knowing).
2. The universe/creation was made by God and/or exists in a contingent relationship to God.
3. Evil exists in the world. Why?

2. The Logical Problem of Evil: The logical problem of evil is a deductive one. Namely, given the above problem (God is loving, all powerful and all knowing, yet evil exists), is it rational to believe in the existence of God?

 

1. God exists, is all good, all knowing, and all powerful.

2. Such a being has no limits to its ability.

3. A good being will always eliminate all the evil that it can.

4. Evil exists, so God must not.

 

https://www3.dbu.edu/mitchell/theodicy_brief_overview.htm

 

May I remind people of the biggest genocide in world history. The Flood. It's impossible to know how many people were killed by God in The Flood, but in the 1656 years after Creation, until The Flood, there were probably upwards of 4 billion people living at the time. 8 were saved.

 

This is just one example of God directly involved with the mass killing of people throughout Biblical history.

 

If I intentionally kill a single person, I'm either going to spend my life in prison, or be executed (after many years on death row), depending on where I reside.

If God is Nature, then flooding is a natural happening and created by god.

 

If we looking for supernatural, Nature is supernatural, and if Nature is God, God is everything! 

 

Pure logic and no more need to wonder about what and who god is, we just need to understand the law of nature and respect God.

 

For every action, there is a? 

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

When discussing religion, church has little meaning for Eastern Religions and even for Christian religions as there are hundreds of churches within the Christian religion... all studying the same book, but deriving different interpretations thereof. Everyday there's probably someone opening a new church.

Human made religion is just to give hope, give mesning and explanation of good and bad as well give meaning of structure and dicipline to handle continuous growing population, where control have been important to everyones best as a tribe and people of society. 

 

We are easy manipulated and distracted for good and bad.

[JensenZ]

7 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Nevertheless, its important to keep the distinctions in mind when voicing your discontent with one or the other.

I'm not personally discontented with any churches as I don't go to any, but I did in my younger years. There's a freedom about not being affiliated to a church.

[JensenZ]

Just now, Hummin said:

 We are easy manipulated and distracted for good and bad.

You can leave me out of that group LOL

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, JensenZ said:

I'm not personally discontented with any churches as I don't go to any, but I did in my younger years. There's a freedom about not being affiliated to a church.

I meant "you" as a general term, but I agree with you. I view all human institutions with a good dose of distrust. 

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, JensenZ said:

You can leave me out of that group LOL

Somehow that affects us one or the other way throughout our lifes whe we have to make choices. 

 

If you did drink or still drinking coca cola and eating Mc Donalds, then you have been manipulated ????

[JensenZ]

Just now, Sunmaster said:

I meant "you" as a general term, but I agree with you. I view all human institutions with a good dose of distrust. 

The churches never liked me as I would be asking too many tough questions to which they had no answers.

[JensenZ]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Somehow that affects us one or the other way throughout our lifes whe we have to make choices. 

 

If you did drink or still drinking coca cola and eating Mc Donalds, then you have been manipulated ????

I never got around to doing any of that, but the drinking habit is normally a result of peer pressure in your impressionable years. I've always been a loner - an outisider, who made my own decisions. I'm sure there are plenty like me out there, but because we keep to ourselves, we don't often meet - except on forums like this.

Edited April 24, 2023 by JensenZ

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

The churches never liked me as I would be asking too many tough questions to which they had no answers.

I was a pain in the butt hole for our priest and therefor let me go doing sports instead of arriving evening classes for my confirmation. We had to attend all classes to pass, but for some reasons, he thought doing my ski jumping made me closer to god than with him ????

 

1001 question to every statement he made

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

I never got around to doing any of that, but the drinking habit is normally a result of peer pressure in your impressionable years. I've always been a loner - an outisider, who made my own decisions. I'm sure there are plenty like me out there, but because we keep to ourselves, we don't often meet - except on forums like this.

I can see myself in your description but socializing through work, sports and activities. Need alot of time for myself thow, reading and thinking

[Red Phoenix]

18 minutes ago, Hummin said:

If God is Nature, then flooding is a natural happening and created by god.

If we looking for supernatural, Nature is supernatural, and if Nature is God, God is everything! 

Pure logic and no more need to wonder about what and who god is, we just need to understand the law of nature and respect God.

For every action, there is a? 

Your post reminded me of an interesting Substack article I recently came across, titled

Breaking the Habits of Western Thinking: Cause and Effect Is Not a Thing

The author makes the correct observation that the pre-dominant view in our Western materialistic culture is that 'cause leads to effect'.  And while this is true on the pure physical plane, the opposite is also true in the spiritual realm where - strange as it may sound - the effect will determine the cause.

Although the author is a Christian and uses biblical quotations to make his point, it is by no means a purely christian thesis, and is more a 'universal law' that has become almost alien to our Western 'scientific' logical way of thinking. 

Attached below an excerpt of the article:

~

Much of the power of science and scientific thinking is based upon this idea of cause and effect.  It is simple really.  If all there is in the world is matter, then everything we see today can be explained as an unbroken chain of cause and effect back to the very beginning of all things. Every action has a reaction.  You do something and it has an effect.  If I drop something, it falls to the ground.  If I punch you in the nose, your nose will get broken and start to bleed.  It is this idea of cause and effect that is foundational to the idea of human progress.  By making small incremental changes to ourselves and the world around us, we can have progressively greater positive effects on the world, step by step.  It’s foundational to the idea of evolution. But it is a profoundly western idea.  It is an idea that runs counter to and undermines Biblical ways of thinking.  Understanding this also, in my mind, helps us as Christians to draw ourselves apart from the broader culture, to understand the ways in which we are, or should be, thinking among our own ghetto nation. This, then, has real political implications, as I discussed in my most recent piece before this one.

Because of this idea of cause and effect, we tend to look at our moral and spiritual life this way as well, through this lens of progressive improvement.  In life we face countless choices every day.  All we need to do to become better people and more Christ like is to make those choices in a way that is God honoring and in harmony with his commands.  Each choice we face gives us an opportunity to put in motion a good action, “a cause,” that will lead to a positive “effect” in our lives.  As the positive effects accumulate in our lives, we will become ever more Christ like.  This is a deeply western and materialist way to think about “spiritual” growth.  In fact, it isn’t really spiritual growth at all.  It is materialist self-improvement jargon smuggled into the church. It is a form of self-salvation.

Why is this idea of cause and effect so problematic?  Because it places a burden upon us to always be making the right choices.  But we tell ourselves that this is what the spiritual journey is.  It is about making good life choices that have positive upbuilding effect in our lives. It sounds great.  And this is familiar territory for all of us.  There is a whole industry of Christian self-help advice offering their two-cents worth, helping us make good choices.  But, unfortunately, its pretty much all wrong.  We do make choices and we should make good choices, but the direction is all wrong.  Because of this, we end up with a doctrine of self-salvation prettied up in fine sounding Christian God language. God helps me make good choices and because of the choices I make I become a better person.  

But in biblical ways of thinking, the effect determines the cause.  The end of the journey you are on determines the choices you make today.

For most of us, that just sounds bizarre.  Effect determines cause.  That is totally backwards and counter intuitive.  And that is because spiritual realities are not the same as scientific realities.  This is the danger of rationalism that ends in practical materialism.  We have become so dominated by scientific materialism that it is almost impossible for us to actually read many biblical passages and really hear what they are saying to us and the implications for our lives.

At the same time, many of us carry around a tremendous burden that we never measure up, we are never good enough.  We carry this burden around with us in large part because we are trapped in a modern scientific worldview.  We always feel like we never measure up, that we cannot make enough good choices.  We beat up on ourselves for making bad choices. 

 

The full article can be accessed here:

https://apokekrummenain.substack.com/p/breaking-the-habits-of-western-thinking?utm_source=substack&utm_campaign=post_embed&utm_medium=email&nthPub=73

[Sunmaster]

9 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Your post reminded me of an interesting Substack article I recently came across, titled

Breaking the Habits of Western Thinking: Cause and Effect Is Not a Thing

The author makes the correct observation that the pre-dominant view in our Western materialistic culture is that 'cause leads to effect'.  And while this is true on the pure physical plane, the opposite is also true in the spiritual realm where - strange as it may sound - the effect will determine the cause.

Although the author is a Christian and uses biblical quotations to make his point, it is by no means a purely christian thesis, and is more a 'universal law' that has become almost alien to our Western 'scientific' logical way of thinking. 

Attached below an excerpt of the article:

~

Much of the power of science and scientific thinking is based upon this idea of cause and effect.  It is simple really.  If all there is in the world is matter, then everything we see today can be explained as an unbroken chain of cause and effect back to the very beginning of all things. Every action has a reaction.  You do something and it has an effect.  If I drop something, it falls to the ground.  If I punch you in the nose, your nose will get broken and start to bleed.  It is this idea of cause and effect that is foundational to the idea of human progress.  By making small incremental changes to ourselves and the world around us, we can have progressively greater positive effects on the world, step by step.  It’s foundational to the idea of evolution. But it is a profoundly western idea.  It is an idea that runs counter to and undermines Biblical ways of thinking.  Understanding this also, in my mind, helps us as Christians to draw ourselves apart from the broader culture, to understand the ways in which we are, or should be, thinking among our own ghetto nation. This, then, has real political implications, as I discussed in my most recent piece before this one.

Because of this idea of cause and effect, we tend to look at our moral and spiritual life this way as well, through this lens of progressive improvement.  In life we face countless choices every day.  All we need to do to become better people and more Christ like is to make those choices in a way that is God honoring and in harmony with his commands.  Each choice we face gives us an opportunity to put in motion a good action, “a cause,” that will lead to a positive “effect” in our lives.  As the positive effects accumulate in our lives, we will become ever more Christ like.  This is a deeply western and materialist way to think about “spiritual” growth.  In fact, it isn’t really spiritual growth at all.  It is materialist self-improvement jargon smuggled into the church. It is a form of self-salvation.

Why is this idea of cause and effect so problematic?  Because it places a burden upon us to always be making the right choices.  But we tell ourselves that this is what the spiritual journey is.  It is about making good life choices that have positive upbuilding effect in our lives. It sounds great.  And this is familiar territory for all of us.  There is a whole industry of Christian self-help advice offering their two-cents worth, helping us make good choices.  But, unfortunately, its pretty much all wrong.  We do make choices and we should make good choices, but the direction is all wrong.  Because of this, we end up with a doctrine of self-salvation prettied up in fine sounding Christian God language. God helps me make good choices and because of the choices I make I become a better person.  

But in biblical ways of thinking, the effect determines the cause.  The end of the journey you are on determines the choices you make today.

For most of us, that just sounds bizarre.  Effect determines cause.  That is totally backwards and counter intuitive.  And that is because spiritual realities are not the same as scientific realities.  This is the danger of rationalism that ends in practical materialism.  We have become so dominated by scientific materialism that it is almost impossible for us to actually read many biblical passages and really hear what they are saying to us and the implications for our lives.

At the same time, many of us carry around a tremendous burden that we never measure up, we are never good enough.  We carry this burden around with us in large part because we are trapped in a modern scientific worldview.  We always feel like we never measure up, that we cannot make enough good choices.  We beat up on ourselves for making bad choices. 

 

The full article can be accessed here:

https://apokekrummenain.substack.com/p/breaking-the-habits-of-western-thinking?utm_source=substack&utm_campaign=post_embed&utm_medium=email&nthPub=73

A very interesting and thought provoking post. 

It somehow relates to my posts about time, where I tried to visualize the timelessness of the inner (spiritual) world compared to the material world.

If there is a timeless state, the linear unfolding of cause and effect become meaningless. 

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Your post reminded me of an interesting Substack article I recently came across, titled

Breaking the Habits of Western Thinking: Cause and Effect Is Not a Thing

The author makes the correct observation that the pre-dominant view in our Western materialistic culture is that 'cause leads to effect'.  And while this is true on the pure physical plane, the opposite is also true in the spiritual realm where - strange as it may sound - the effect will determine the cause.

Although the author is a Christian and uses biblical quotations to make his point, it is by no means a purely christian thesis, and is more a 'universal law' that has become almost alien to our Western 'scientific' logical way of thinking. 

Attached below an excerpt of the article:

~

Much of the power of science and scientific thinking is based upon this idea of cause and effect.  It is simple really.  If all there is in the world is matter, then everything we see today can be explained as an unbroken chain of cause and effect back to the very beginning of all things. Every action has a reaction.  You do something and it has an effect.  If I drop something, it falls to the ground.  If I punch you in the nose, your nose will get broken and start to bleed.  It is this idea of cause and effect that is foundational to the idea of human progress.  By making small incremental changes to ourselves and the world around us, we can have progressively greater positive effects on the world, step by step.  It’s foundational to the idea of evolution. But it is a profoundly western idea.  It is an idea that runs counter to and undermines Biblical ways of thinking.  Understanding this also, in my mind, helps us as Christians to draw ourselves apart from the broader culture, to understand the ways in which we are, or should be, thinking among our own ghetto nation. This, then, has real political implications, as I discussed in my most recent piece before this one.

Because of this idea of cause and effect, we tend to look at our moral and spiritual life this way as well, through this lens of progressive improvement.  In life we face countless choices every day.  All we need to do to become better people and more Christ like is to make those choices in a way that is God honoring and in harmony with his commands.  Each choice we face gives us an opportunity to put in motion a good action, “a cause,” that will lead to a positive “effect” in our lives.  As the positive effects accumulate in our lives, we will become ever more Christ like.  This is a deeply western and materialist way to think about “spiritual” growth.  In fact, it isn’t really spiritual growth at all.  It is materialist self-improvement jargon smuggled into the church. It is a form of self-salvation.

Why is this idea of cause and effect so problematic?  Because it places a burden upon us to always be making the right choices.  But we tell ourselves that this is what the spiritual journey is.  It is about making good life choices that have positive upbuilding effect in our lives. It sounds great.  And this is familiar territory for all of us.  There is a whole industry of Christian self-help advice offering their two-cents worth, helping us make good choices.  But, unfortunately, its pretty much all wrong.  We do make choices and we should make good choices, but the direction is all wrong.  Because of this, we end up with a doctrine of self-salvation prettied up in fine sounding Christian God language. God helps me make good choices and because of the choices I make I become a better person.  

But in biblical ways of thinking, the effect determines the cause.  The end of the journey you are on determines the choices you make today.

For most of us, that just sounds bizarre.  Effect determines cause.  That is totally backwards and counter intuitive.  And that is because spiritual realities are not the same as scientific realities.  This is the danger of rationalism that ends in practical materialism.  We have become so dominated by scientific materialism that it is almost impossible for us to actually read many biblical passages and really hear what they are saying to us and the implications for our lives.

At the same time, many of us carry around a tremendous burden that we never measure up, we are never good enough.  We carry this burden around with us in large part because we are trapped in a modern scientific worldview.  We always feel like we never measure up, that we cannot make enough good choices.  We beat up on ourselves for making bad choices. 

 

The full article can be accessed here:

https://apokekrummenain.substack.com/p/breaking-the-habits-of-western-thinking?utm_source=substack&utm_campaign=post_embed&utm_medium=email&nthPub=73

Thank you for your great post

 

"no ethics, no morals, no conscience, no guilt"

[Sunmaster]

Just finished this drawing. 

 

Rather than explaining my ideas behind it, I would be interested to know how you would interpret it...

[Hummin]

11 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Just finished this drawing. 

 

Rather than explaining my ideas behind it, I would be interested to know how you would interpret it...

My first thought Sliding doors multiverse 

[Red Phoenix]

9 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Just finished this drawing. 

 

Rather than explaining my ideas behind it, I would be interested to know how you would interpret it...

Nice mandala-like drawing.

My impression is that that it each circle with a person in it represents a looking-glass, showing that everybody looks at the world from his/her perspective.  But also, whether the person realizes it or not (some look only in their direction), that all of these looking-glass perspectives are interconnected and thus that reality is multi-faceted and as good as imperceptible in its totality.

[mauGR1]

10 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Just finished this drawing. 

 

Rather than explaining my ideas behind it, I would be interested to know how you would interpret it...

Very nice, after thinking a while, i could call it " multifaceted reality".

[Sunmaster]

Thanks a lot for the ideas!

 

In the end I opted for "Perspectives". 

For one the perspective of the viewer (you) who will interpret it according to his own unique point of view.

 

On the other hand the individual perspectives of the people in the drawing, who create their own universe according to their own beliefs. 

 

Finally, the perspective of the observer (soul), who is the creator of the individual sub-perspectives. If you look at the guy in the center, he has learned to pierce through the veil, revealing the underlying order of the system and is looking back at the originator (Soul).

 

In that sense we can either imagine the sub-personalities to be other people connected to each other by the web of life....or be manifestations of a single higher consciousness. This timeless consciousness splits and creates fragments just like a prism splits light, creating seemingly separate personalities in the process, without time or place restrictions. A sort of simultaneous "past lives". 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/24/2023 at 10:18 AM, JensenZ said:

Wrong. You cannot separate most religions and God, and especially not the Catholic Church.

 

Let's take a quick look at the meaning of the word "religion":

 

Oxford: "the belief in and worship of a superhuman power or powers, especially a God or gods"

 

Basically religion is worship of a god. It's certainly what I'm talking about here and the theme behind this thread: "Do you believe in God and why". It doesn't define any particular god.

I'm not wrong but if you can't understand why, I'm not going to repeat what has already been explained hundreds of times on the thread.

Believe whatever you will, as I'm not here to convert anyone.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, save the frogs said:

I was also indoctrinated and it goes way back.

Sometimes people need to break free from traditions.

uneducated population ... those who choose to remain uneducated.

everyone has a computer in their pocket these days.

 

If you mean one of those ( not ) smart telephones, not everyone has one.