Do you believe in God and why

[luckyluke]

16 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

I have good news for you, meditate and meditate, the answers will come to you.

It may be a way for some, definitively not the only one.

But it will sure give you answers,

the ones you like, the ones you will pretend are the only right ones.

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

It's not their task, so irrelevant.

We don't know/understand their way of feeling, communicate either.

Everything may have a purpose, we will know, or not, in due time.

But of course there are many interpretations and expounds.

Some are even confident that they know better, and some others even believing it.

Well, at the risk of appearing too confident, my feelings are telling me that we have been past countless states of consciousness, including all stages in the mineral, plants and animal world's, so I think that, from a human point of view, animals appear to be predictable in their behaviours.

In the same way, we appear predictable to more spiritually evolved beings.

[luckyluke]

11 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

If repetitiveness would hurt, you would be in a world of trouble. 

Only here, because apparently still necessary.

Be prepare to more, if I feel the need to.

[Tagged]

9 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

It may be a way for some, definitively not the only one.

But it will sure give you answers,

the ones you like, the ones you will pretend are the only right ones.

It is not only limited to @mauGR1, it is labeled all of us ????

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, at the risk of appearing too confident, my feelings are telling me that we have been past countless states of consciousness, including all stages in the mineral, plants and animal world's, so I think that, from a human point of view, animals appear to be predictable in their behaviours.

In the same way, we appear predictable to more spiritually evolved beings.

Nice expression of a point of view.

[mauGR1]

12 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

It may be a way for some, definitively not the only one.

But it will sure give you answers,

the ones you like, the ones you will pretend are the only right ones.

Sorry, i am pretending what ?

If this is really what you think, I'm wasting time talking to you, but thanks anyway.

[luckyluke]

4 minutes ago, Tagged said:

It is not only limited to @mauGR1, it is labeled all of us ????

Some are conscious they may be wrong.

For others it is out of the question.

[Sunmaster]

14 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Only here, because apparently still necessary.

Be prepare to more, if I feel the need to.

And I will look forward to read yet another one of your invaluable "contributions".
Not. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Sunmaster

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Sorry, i am pretending what ?

If this is really what you think, I'm wasting time talking to you, but thanks anyway.

I am thinking it is silly to pretend that one knows the truth, as it is to pretend there is only one way, or a better result to archive happiness and serenity.

One can express oneself in a very academic writing way or not, the way isn't important, the content is. 

[VincentRJ]

40 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

The patterns are there with or without human acknowledgement. If it were like you say, plants would not follow the Fibonacci sequence, but grow completely randomly, stars would not be recognizable as spiral galaxies, but would be dotting the cosmos in a random manner. 
I think this is so evident that I will not spend more time on this. If you can't see it, so be it.

 

Of course I can see patterns. All living creatures with brains can see patterns. Seeing, or detecting patterns is essential for survival.
What amazes me is, on the one hand you agree that everything is interdependent, then, on the other hand you separate and exclude the human perception of a pattern from the external reality of that pattern, and claim that the same pattern, as perceived by humans, exists independent of human perception. That's an excellent example of a total contradiction and illogicality. Well done. ????

 

If you don't want to spend time understanding this, that's fine by me. It's your problem, not mine. I have a great respect for the basic teachings of Buddhism, minus all the mumbo jumbo and animism of course. I find the fundamental teachings of Buddhism profound and true. The goal of Buddhism is to reach a stage of 'cessation of all thought', because the Buddha understood that everything we think about is influenced and contaminated by our background, experiences, prejudices, and biological nature as Homo Sapiens (as opposed to Bats who are prejudiced in other ways ????  ).

 

To experience 'reality', or 'Nirvana', one has to be aware without the contamination from the myriad of experiences from our past. Does that make sense?
 

[luckyluke]

Just now, Sunmaster said:

And I will look forward to read another one of your invaluable "contributions".
Not. 

This is a forum, one has free choice to read or not, to react or not, to ignore or not.

 

 

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

...

Everything may have a purpose, we will know, or not, in due time.

But of course there are many interpretations and expounds.

Some are even confident that they know better, and some others even believing it.

Reactions to this vary from individual to individual.

For me it is conceitedness and thus sometimes irritating,

luckily it doesn't hurt. 

Everything is relative. 

I for one am utterly arrogant and very humble at the same time...

Arrogant because I am often convinced that indeed I DO often know better than others who are also convinced of being right in matters of a spiritual nature.

But humble at the same time, because I do realize that what I know, understand and have experienced is only a tiny fraction of Truth and Reality. 

Deep waters, quiet grounds...

Is my humbleness in fact 'false arrogance'?  I think that previously it was, but not so anymore.

When I was younger I very rarely did tell my opinion in matters of the spirit, and this because I felt I was right, but would not be understood by those loudly touting their opinion (and I secretly felt superior - a true sign of false arrogance).  Some of my friends and even family members are still totally unaware of my thinking and convictions, as I do not share these with them (me - arrogantly - thinking they would not understand and me not wanting to go into any arguments on matters which are crystal clear for me but would be met with disbelief from their part). 

Now that I am older, I am more 'open' to share these thoughts but only with people that I believe are receptive to it.  Again, I do not claim that I am 'englightened' (far from that), but in matters of the spirit I cannot deny that I am on a different level than the average guy (here my arrogance speaks again), but I humbly acknowledge that I only made the first step on the journey of a 1000 miles on the spiritual path.

Not sure why I am sharing this on an anonymous Forum, but someone reading this might recognize some of their own experience in it...

 

[Tagged]

18 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Some are conscious they may be wrong.

For others it is out of the question.

Being aware of our own weaknesses, is a huge step, and also be aware of your ego, is also a huge step, as you will be aware of The need to listening To others than yourselves, see other perspectives,, and as Important,  not only trust What you see, hear, or your own feelings. Nothing is more biased than your own feelings. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Tagged

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, VincentRJ said:

What amazes me is, on the one hand you agree that everything is interdependent, then, on the other hand you separate and exclude the human perception of a pattern from the external reality of that pattern, and claim that the same pattern, as perceived by humans, exists independent of human perception. That's an excellent example of a total contradiction and illogicality. Well done. 

I didn't exclude anything. I said, the patterns would still be there, if there were humans perceiving them or not. Once a human perceives the pattern, then there is an energy exchange. That's why it is so relaxing to look or design mandalas. That's why we perceive a face to be aesthetically pleasing while we find another one repulsive. That's why yoga uses geometrical patterns to symbolize the energy points in the body and uses them as a template during meditation. Like I said, everything is connected and interdependent.
Yet, if there were no humans to perceive these patterns, they would still be present.

Clearer now?

[Sunmaster]

5 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

This is a forum, one has free choice to read or not, to react or not, to ignore or not.

 

 

I wish you could follow your own advice and just ignore the posts you find so offensive to your sensibilities...

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Everything is relative. 

I for one am utterly arrogant and very humble at the same time...

Arrogant because I am often convinced that indeed I DO often know better than others who are also convinced of being right in matters of a spiritual nature.

But humble at the same time, because I do realize that what I know, understand and have experienced is only a tiny fraction of Truth and Reality. 

Deep waters, quiet grounds...

Is my humbleness in fact 'false arrogance'?  I think that previously it was, but not so anymore.

When I was younger I very rarely did tell my opinion in matters of the spirit, and this because I felt I was right, but would not be understood by those loudly touting their opinion (and I secretly felt superior - a true sign of false arrogance).  Some of my friends and even family members are still totally unaware of my thinking and convictions, as I do not share these with them (me - arrogantly - thinking they would not understand and me not wanting to go into any arguments on matters which are crystal clear for me but would be met with disbelief from their part). 

Now that I am older, I am more 'open' to share these thoughts but only with people that I believe are receptive to it.  Again, I do not claim that I am 'englightened' (far from that), but in matters of the spirit I cannot deny that I am on a different level than the average guy (here my arrogance speaks again), but I humbly acknowledge that I only made the first step on the journey of a 1000 miles on the spiritual path.

Not sure why I am sharing this on an anonymous Forum, but someone reading this might recognize some of their own experience in it...

 

 

 

You may be convinced of something, or to have experienced something particular.

 

If you think of yourself you are  " on a different level than the average guy ",

good for you

 

 However it remains something to been accepted/believed,

there is no material, (recognized as such by everyone)  proof of it.

 

 Some will believe it and pretend that they have/had something similar.

 

And than claim that the ones who don't believe it or/and experienced it, are not or not yet, on the level they are.

 

So in fact it come down to :

do you believe someone on his word, or not.

 

[VincentRJ]

31 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I didn't exclude anything. I said, the patterns would still be there, if there were humans perceiving them or not.

Crikey! That's exclusion. Can't you see? You're saying, the same patterns that humans perceive, continue to exist if there are no humans to perceive those patterns. Isn't that excluding humans?

 

I'm amazed at your confusion. Isn't it obvious that everything we perceive is a combination of a 'part of the external reality and the human characteristics of perception'? Different animals will perceive things differently. An alien from a more advance civilization in outer space would very likely perceive things quite differently to us.

 

You can't separate the observed from the observer, whilst still retaining something to observe. Separation from the observed and the observer means, there's nothing to observe, and/or there's no observer. Got it? ????
 

Edited September 6, 2020 by VincentRJ

[luckyluke]

13 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I wish you could follow your own advice and just ignore the posts you find so offensive to your sensibilities...

I wrote :

"This is a forum, one has free choice to read or not, to react or not, to ignore or not."

 

So that's what I do :

I choose when to read, when to react, when to ignore.

[Sunmaster]

7 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

I wrote :

"This is a forum, one has free choice to read or not, to react or not, to ignore or not."

 

So that's what I do :

I choose when to read, when to react, when to ignore.

Maybe you can do me a huge favour and put me on your ignore list? I would be eternally grateful.
I will go ahead and do the same for you. 

[Peter Denis]

5 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

You may be convinced of something, or to have experienced something particular.

 

If you think of yourself you are  " on a different level than the average guy ", good for you

 

However it remains something to been accepted/believed, there is no material, (recognized as such by everyone)  proof of it.

 

Some will believe it and pretend that they have/had something similar.

 

And than claim that the ones who don't believe it or/and experienced it, are not or not yet, on the level they are.

 

So in fact it come down to :

do you believe someone on his word, or not.

I appreciate your humbleness-invoking posts.  Not that they change one bit to my convictions/beliefs because words are no substitute for actual experience (although I admit that such experience might put one on the wrong track).

Maybe there is also some arrogance / conceitedness in your role as Continual Reminder that Nobody Really Knows and the Nothing but Belief Without Any Proof Mantra.  Something to explore?

But don't take my word for it ????

[luckyluke]

11 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Maybe you can do me a huge favour and put me on your ignore list? I would be eternally grateful.
I will go ahead and do the same for you. 

Member here since 2006.

I never put, nor will put someone on "ignore".

Of course you do what you suit the best.

[Sunmaster]

11 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

Crikey! That's exclusion. Can't you see? You're saying, the same patterns that humans perceive, continue to exist if there are no humans to perceive those patterns. Isn't that excluding humans?

 

I'm amazed at your confusion. Isn't it obvious that everything we perceive is a combination of a 'part of the external reality and the human characteristics of perception'? Different animals will perceive things differently. An alien from a more advance civilization in outer space would very likely perceive things quite differently to us.

 

You can't separate the observed from the observer, whilst still retaining something to observe. Separation from the observed and the observer means, there's nothing to observe, and/or there's no observer. Got it? ????
 

I'm not sure this is a matter of semantics or you deliberately want to create confusion where there is none.

A flower would still display the same pattern if an animal would look at it. A spiral galaxy would still have that distinct shape without an observer. Of course, we look at that pattern, recognize it and give it a name...you need an observer to do that. Does that mean there are no rules, there's no organization in the material universe? I think not.

At a certain point on the scale of consciousness, observer and observed become one. This state is called "cosmic consciousness" and happens when the ego dissolves and the remaining Self melts and identifies with everything there is. The whole universe becomes your body, so to speak. Still, the patterns described earlier persist in that body too and don't become chaotic or random like you're saying.

[luckyluke]

4 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

 

Maybe there is also some arrogance / conceitedness in your role as Continual Reminder that Nobody Really Knows and the Nothing but Belief Without Any Proof Mantra.  

 

If you are convinced of this, I won't be able to change your mind.

[Tagged]

I must say, this starting to get somewhere! 5 different views and topics now at the same time! And there is only men posting! Impressive

[Tagged]

I almost got a monthy python scene on my tongue

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

I hope this is not directed towards me. I think I've been arguing my points quite clearly, trying to ignore snide remarks and lame jokes as best as I could. 

No, of course not. I'm simply trying to introduce the concept of projection that influences all human affairs in a variety of ways. Projection is not necessarily bad. The Ad Hominem is of course bad, but is just one aspect of projection. 

 

Here's another aspect which I recently came across as a result of my interest in photography. The attached image is a negative of a lady's face. There are three dots on her nose. If you concentrate on those three dots, staring as them for at least 30 seconds, without blinking, then raise your eyes to the ceiling, and blink once, you should see a projection of a beautiful lady on the ceiling. The projection lasts just a few seconds before the details fade away, but the image is really beautiful from my perspective, whilst it lasts.

 

I'm wondering if my projection of this image is so good because I've frequently converted Black & White negatives to positives in the past, through the scanning process using the computer. Perhaps my brain is automatically processing this negative of the lady into a positive.
I'd be interested to discover if readers of this thread, who may not be involved in photography, experience the same. I look forward to your replies. I'm also not sure if this would work on an iPhone. I use a desktop computer when on the internet, as I do when processing all my photos, which I shoot RAW.

[Sunmaster]

3 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

No, of course not. I'm simply trying to introduce the concept of projection that influences all human affairs in a variety of ways. Projection is not necessarily bad. The Ad Hominem is of course bad, but is just one aspect of projection. 

 

Here's another aspect which I recently came across as a result of my interest in photography. The attached image is a negative of a lady's face. There are three dots on her nose. If you concentrate on those three dots, staring as them for at least 30 seconds, without blinking, then raise your eyes to the ceiling, and blink once, you should see a projection of a beautiful lady on the ceiling. The projection lasts just a few seconds before the details fade away, but the image is really beautiful from my perspective, whilst it lasts.

 

I'm wondering if my projection of this image is so good because I've frequently converted Black & White negatives to positives in the past, through the scanning process using the computer. Perhaps my brain is automatically processing this negative of the lady into a positive.
I'd be interested to discover if readers of this thread, who may not be involved in photography, experience the same. I look forward to your replies. I'm also not sure if this would work on an iPhone. I use a desktop computer when on the internet, as I do when processing all my photos, which I shoot RAW.

Yes, I did like you said and I've seen her quite clearly for a few seconds.

[Peter Denis]

17 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

  20 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Maybe there is also some arrogance / conceitedness in your role as Continual Reminder that Nobody Really Knows and the Nothing but Belief Without Any Proof Mantra.  

 

17 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

If you are convinced of this, I won't be able to change your mind.

Hahaha, if my quote is true, indeed you won't be able to change my mind.

1 - Nobody Really Knows > so why would I change my mind because of a post by somebody that doesn't really know

2 - Belief Without Any Proof > provide me with proof that I am wrong, and I will change my mind

 

>> So you are actually doing a Good Job in that role, and must be a humbling experience that your posts won't change someone's mind.  But they have value in that they provoke some thinking on one's beliefs.

[luckyluke]

"provide me with proof that I am wrong, and I will change my mind" 

????

 I know you are lying, you make up your "experience". 

 

Prove me I am wrong. ????

 

[Tagged]

There is alot of confidence in not knowing, and there is very little doubt left when you admit you do not know!

 

I think that should be the last post from me for awhile, since personal experiences truly comes down to experience someone elses experiences who experienced someone elses experiences with or without drugs taken. Our mind is so beautiful set, that we can manipulate whatever we want if we are willing to put the time and effort to do so. Some said seeking is a lonely journey, I do not know loneliness, never did. But I feel different than most other people who are social, and say they can not be alone, or live remote like I have done, and do now. 

 

Call my experiences shallow, or what ever you like, but take my word, I have been seeking, I have been reading, I have felt, seen, heard, and dreamt many things, but not yet experienced the devine, or anything spiritual that is worth to mention. 

 

When I was at a national team, we had team building with an psychologist, and he took us on an hour journey, and I saw what he wanted me to see, clear pics, smell, sounds, and I felt I was on a journey. It was a wonderful Experience, but I understood, it is a technique they use to put you in a state of mind, where you accept he leading you. Well, imagine every people seeking something, being catched by someone who know to manipulate, and know how to connect people, what they can do? It is quite scary , or ?