Why the Chinese are infinitely more important than Western tourists to Thailand

[Traubert]

On 4/25/2019 at 11:49 AM, Thaidream said:

4.  China is not a country which endears itself to other populations due to it's lack of understanding local customs and it's lack of  manners-  Eventually the welcome wears off.

5.  China and the US are destined to become entangled in a war most likely over China's attempt to recover Taiwan and China's encroachment into the South China Sea. America will win and the Chinese economy will be destroyed.  

6.  Thailand will at some point move away from China once it realizes that it's sovereignty and it's culture is threatened. In addition- with the large scale Japanese investment in Thailand- the Thais cannot risk losing this source of investment and the Japanese see china as a Worldwide threat.

 

I do not share your enthusiasm for the Chinese because I still believe the major player in South East Asia will be the Japanese; The US; Australia and  Europe.

You're funny but 4,5&6 are funniest of all.

[Traubert]

On 4/25/2019 at 1:29 PM, ThomasThBKK said:

The reselling stuff btw is because many luxury brands refuse to set up shops in china. Due to fakes, local business restrictions etc.

Many Chinese buy hermes bags for example just to resell them in china.

They artificially limit the amount of products/country for price gauging reasons...


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I'm afraid that is incorrect. The ever increasing number of malls in China are wall to wall worldwide luxury brands. The problem is their products, being foreign brands,  are subject to import tax which is huge, even though the products are made in China. It's one of Trump's big beefs and one of the causes of his ridiculous tariffs.

 

Chinese people could buy your Hermes bag at retail in Thailand and still undercut the shop price in China by a large margin because of the import tax. The only way round this is to open a JV Enterprise 51% owned by a Chinese company, which is another one of Trump's beefs. I believe the same is true to an extent in Thailand.

[Sealbash]

And infinitely more dangerous. The big plus about Western tourists is that they're here to have a good time, their chances of taking over the country are something between 0% and zero. History is repeating itself. Why do you think you can't own land or get citizenship, and it's nothing to do with your status as a Farang.

Chinese seem to have done well after taking over SINGAPORE.


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[Traubert]

14 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Nobody cares about what Thailand values, it changes as soon as a baht note is shown, they just don't want to live in a sardine can full of Chinese with zero manners and on a mission to expand the commie empire. In other words, Chinese and Westerners don't mix. 

Hello Mr McCarthy. Have you apologized for ruining all those careers with your shameless lies yet?

[Eric Loh]

13 minutes ago, Sealbash said:

Chinese seem to have done well after taking over SINGAPORE.


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Beg your pardon Sir. There is no Chinese invasion taking over Singapore. You confuse yourself with Chinese settlers in the 19th and early 20th century escaping famine and looking for a better life. What Singapore has are Singaporean of Chinese descent vastly different from mainland Chinese. 

[Traubert]

4 hours ago, boonrawdcnx said:

Alipay, WeChat - That’s for the poor people - the rich Chinese avoid it like the plaque - because every transaction can - and very likely -is being traced by the Chinese government.

Every repressive government in the world is trying to push their citizens towards a cashless society for total control over your finances!


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No, they are used by the 850m people who have smart phones. Rich Chinese don't have smart phones?

 

I don't doubt you're correct on the transactions being monitored. There's been a huge anti-corruption campaign running very successfully for the last six years.

 

Also rich Chinese visit the dentist a lot. That's how they avoid plaque.

[Sealbash]

Beg your pardon Sir. There is no Chinese invasion taking over Singapore. You confuse yourself with Chinese settlers in the 19th and early 20th century escaping famine and looking for a better life. What Singapore has are Singaporean of Chinese descent vastly different from mainland Chinese. 

Unlike the Chinese today who are looking to escape a repressive government and make a better life?


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[moutamine]

On 4/24/2019 at 8:43 PM, Puchaiyank said:

Lets face it...the Chinese are on the move...strong economy and growing middle class...strong military and currency...they are poised to dominate the world...and to that end they have been quietly cultivating relationships across Asia, Africa, and South America...promising people jobs to help them remove their country's natural resources...

 

They have modern infrastructure and technology...they are patiently creating their new Chinese empire...

That's true so the real question is How do we destroy them?

[Traubert]

53 minutes ago, Sealbash said:

Unlike the Chinese today who are looking to escape a repressive government and make a better life?


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Except all those Chinese in Thailand that everyone is bitching about who happily go back to China after four days (apparently) carrying a ton of goodies that they just spent their food coupons on?

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

 

Troll posts and replies have been removed. 

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, Sealbash said:

Unlike the Chinese today who are looking to escape a repressive government and make a better life?


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They now have a good life and want more in their travels and showing off their purchases and happy to be back home. Perhaps you talking about early Mao days or even earlier.

[joecoolfrog]

The figures mean zilch unless they are corelated with  length of stay. If westerners stay at least twice as long ( and I am confident they do) then they spend more overall per head.

[Sydebolle]

On 4/25/2019 at 9:32 AM, marcusarelus said:

For argument sake lets say you are correct.  How many European tourists times $1000 and how many Chinese tourists times $10.   A few thousand Europeans and 80 million Chinese.  You tell me how it works out. 

Thailand and its infrastructure is not able to accomodate such avalanches of herded tourists; Pattaya's ever clogged roads and sois are more than proof of that. The entire domestic low cost carrier network (which I use a LOT) is completely loaded with Asian passengers; few and far between you'll see a caucasian face. Most of those Asians are Thais - nobody really cared nor catered to domestic tourism either. 

The endeavour to accomodate 5 clients at $ 1000 (to stay with the argumentation) is considerably easier and more manageable and 500 clients at $10. Thailand has been in the tourism business for the last 30+ years. The equation does not work, as there was little to no upgrade of the tourism interface in terms of law enforcement, adequate training facilities and graduates of hospitality education programmes etc. 
In other words, any non-/low educated Thai can hand out organ juices or souvenirs and try to rip off bus loads of Chinese; a halfway guided tour by a scholar in magnificent sites like Prasat Hin Phanom Rung or the Ho Chi Minh Museum in Nakhon Phanom is financially much more lucrative with lesser resources BUT requires educated and open-minded interfaces as guides etc.       That was my point; regretfully I state today, that not much has happened in educating guides in various languages and the so called smile has long changed to a sometimes bored, if not frustrated face of greed, if not hatred. More than once I had the impression, that I disturbed staff on duty, be it in shops, restaurants or hotels ....... 

[mauGR1]

27 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

The figures mean zilch unless they are corelated with  length of stay. If westerners stay at least twice as long ( and I am confident they do) then they spend more overall per head.

.. And the Chinese don't care about sick buffaloes either.

[KhunFred]

Kind of obvious. I'm surprised that it needed to be stated.

[spidermike007]

I completely dispute the figures in this article. I have read in several articles that the average Chinese tourists spends $192 a day when traveling. But, that figure cannot be applied to Thailand. It is nonsensical. Thailand attracts primarily budget tours from China. Those that travel here from China do not spend even close to that amount. These are biased and false statistics, based on worldwide numbers. And that is why Western tourists are more important than ever. 

 

This is pure whitewash. Worldwide, alot of wealthy Chinese are traveling. And they spend alot of money, bringing up the average spending numbers. But, few of them come to Thailand for a host of reasons.

 

1. Lack of true five star service.

2. No real wine industry.

3. Punitive luxury taxes. No ability to go shopping for luxury items due to ridiculously overpriced goods. 

4. Lack of law enforcement. 

5. Traffic and public safety issues.

6. Crappy air quality that they are trying to escape, combined with an oppressively hot climate. 

And a dozen other reasons. 

 

[Politenessman]

Thailand is setting itself up for a fall if they become reliant on Chinese tourism, China is well known for allowing such situations to develop, then threatening to ban Chinese tourists from going as an economic stick to use when they want a result (Naval access, favourable commercial deals etc).

[allanpatty]

I've done some work for companies that cooperate with TAT and saw and interesting TAT report a couple of years ago. 
 
The Chinese do spend, on average, about 20% or more than Europeans/Americans/Aussies.  However, a breakdown of where they spend their money was very interesting.  It is traditional for Chinese tourists to return to China with expensive gifts for their friends and relatives.  This is a 'face' thing so they are often willing to spend a big chunk of their total expenditures on these gifts. 
 
So, what do they buy?  They go to the high-end stores on Suk and buy brand-name stuff.
 
Unlike Western tourists, they don't usually patronize small, local shops, smaller guesthouses or local restaurants.  Consequently, even though they spend more money, much, if not most of their money goes to foreign companies and their wealthy Thai partners.  A relatively small portion of their spending goes directly to local merchants and local SME businesses. 
 
The tourists that benefit Thai SMEs the most are actually the much-maligned backpackers!

25 likes for actual nonsense ! Chinese are looking for cheap


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[AtoZ]

On 4/25/2019 at 10:23 AM, Duck J Butters said:

While the Chinese come to Thailand and are dropping $50k USD on stem cell treatment like it’s water to waste and another $50k on fun after the stem cell because they are now feeling superhuman.

 

The idea of a Westerner dropping $50k USD on anti-aging is laughable at best. I’d be hard pressed to get any American or European friends ( rich by Western standards ) to spend $3k USD which is my wife’s absolute minimum discounted price for stem cell treatment.

Because most Westerners aren't idiots. They actually poses 100% natural brain cells.

 

Remind me who needs Rhino horns or Tiger's penis to get their 2 inch friend up?

 

If not Europeans the rest of the world would still live in wooden houses with candles as light source.

[AtoZ]

On 4/26/2019 at 12:06 PM, sandmonster said:

I know Koreans who bring their kids to Thailand for an international school education. I would guess the chinese are now following. The East Asians put a high value on a good education.

And that's exactly what they find in Thailand!

 

Cambridge, Harvard, MIT, etc are unsuccessfully trying to catch up the world class education of Thailand.

[spidermike007]

8 hours ago, Politenessman said:

Thailand is setting itself up for a fall if they become reliant on Chinese tourism, China is well known for allowing such situations to develop, then threatening to ban Chinese tourists from going as an economic stick to use when they want a result (Naval access, favourable commercial deals etc).

Regardless of tourism, I just do not see the Thai government being able the refuse any request from China. Military or otherwise. They have amply demonstrated their obedience and complicity over the years. 

[keemapoot]

8 hours ago, Politenessman said:

Thailand is setting itself up for a fall if they become reliant on Chinese tourism, China is well known for allowing such situations to develop, then threatening to ban Chinese tourists from going as an economic stick to use when they want a result (Naval access, favourable commercial deals etc).

This reliance on such a huge emerging partner has been the main criticism of the Belt and Road initiative, with critics and "client" states charging it is basically debt diplomacy and has been warned about with the high speed rail and other projects in Thailand.  With tourism, the Chinese can get Thailand so hooked on the massive tourism numbers to such an extent where Thailand in essence burns its bridges with everyone else (as we are seeing US/Europe and other traditional regions' visitors decline anyway), and then wield that power as a way to bend Thailand to its will in other areas. 

[Lenny Jones]

On 4/24/2019 at 5:13 PM, otherstuff1957 said:

I've done some work for companies that cooperate with TAT and saw and interesting TAT report a couple of years ago. 

 

The Chinese do spend, on average, about 20% or more than Europeans/Americans/Aussies.  However, a breakdown of where they spend their money was very interesting.  It is traditional for Chinese tourists to return to China with expensive gifts for their friends and relatives.  This is a 'face' thing so they are often willing to spend a big chunk of their total expenditures on these gifts. 

 

So, what do they buy?  They go to the high-end stores on Suk and buy brand-name stuff.

 

Unlike Western tourists, they don't usually patronize small, local shops, smaller guesthouses or local restaurants.  Consequently, even though they spend more money, much, if not most of their money goes to foreign companies and their wealthy Thai partners.  A relatively small portion of their spending goes directly to local merchants and local SME businesses. 

 

The tourists that benefit Thai SMEs the most are actually the much-maligned backpackers!

Then Ask yourself this:  Who owns those "high-end stores"? - Multinational and Chinese organizations.

 

Living on Koh Samui  I see a clear cameo of the "Zero-Dollar" tourists.  Local get NOTHING,  They come here and stay in Multi-nationally-owned resorts, travel around the island in buses organized by Chinese companies, eat at Chinese-owned restaurants and shop at Chinese-owned shops.

 

Take the case of the "Phoenix"  Chinese tourists on a diving trip owned by a Chinese tour company on a boat built in an illegally-run Chinese boat-building yard

 

Thailand doesn't know it but it is being invaded - this time it is yuan not bullets.

 

[marcusarelus]

10 minutes ago, Lenny Jones said:

Then Ask yourself this:  Who owns those "high-end stores"? - Multinational and Chinese organizations.

 

Living on Koh Samui  I see a clear cameo of the "Zero-Dollar" tourists.  Local get NOTHING,  They come here and stay in Multi-nationally-owned resorts, travel around the island in buses organized by Chinese companies, eat at Chinese-owned restaurants and shop at Chinese-owned shops.

 

Take the case of the "Phoenix"  Chinese tourists on a diving trip owned by a Chinese tour company on a boat built in an illegally-run Chinese boat-building yard

 

Thailand doesn't know it but it is being invaded - this time it is yuan not bullets.

 

Chirathivat family owns the stores. 

[HaleySabai]

On 4/28/2019 at 7:21 PM, Lenny Jones said:

Thailand doesn't know it but it is being invaded - this time it is yuan not bullets.

 

And with this current government granting the right for Chinese to own land...well, the carpet has been laid out for them....but will there be pleasant consequences at the end of that carpet roll?

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, HaleySabai said:

And with this current government granting the right for Chinese to own land...well, the carpet has been laid out for them....but will there be pleasant consequences at the end of that carpet roll?

I guess you mean the EEC, i.e. Chinese belt & whipslap? Expect casinos instead of factories and 100% Chinese ghettos around them, Sihanoukville style. Then they can go full Russian style and claim their population is the majority and just take over like they did in Ukraine.

 

Chinese should be driven back behind their wall, don't even have to build one this time. Bloody economical imperialists. 

[bbi1]

If someone has half Chinese blood but has a Western passport, does that make that person more important & higher class than Westerners or do they sit ranking in between the Chinese & Westerners? ????????

[Spidey]

19 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

If someone has half Chinese blood but has a Western passport, does that make that person more important & higher class than Westerners or do they sit ranking in between the Chinese & Westerners? ????????

If someone is half Chinese blood but has a Thai passport, they rank above anyone. Think the vast majority of the Thai elite.

[Traubert]

On 4/28/2019 at 7:38 AM, spidermike007 said:

I completely dispute the figures in this article. I have read in several articles that the average Chinese tourists spends $192 a day when traveling. But, that figure cannot be applied to Thailand. It is nonsensical. Thailand attracts primarily budget tours from China. Those that travel here from China do not spend even close to that amount. These are biased and false statistics, based on worldwide numbers. And that is why Western tourists are more important than ever. 

 

This is pure whitewash. Worldwide, alot of wealthy Chinese are traveling. And they spend alot of money, bringing up the average spending numbers. But, few of them come to Thailand for a host of reasons.

 

1. Lack of true five star service.

2. No real wine industry.

3. Punitive luxury taxes. No ability to go shopping for luxury items due to ridiculously overpriced goods. 

4. Lack of law enforcement. 

5. Traffic and public safety issues.

6. Crappy air quality that they are trying to escape, combined with an oppressively hot climate. 

And a dozen other reasons. 

 

1. Since the anti-corruption campaign started in China, a lot of five star hotels are trying to downgrade to 4 star as staying 5 star is seen as decadent. Doesn't pay to be a tall poppy in China.

2. Wine is relatively new to the Chinese market. It was largely unavailable 15 years ago. China hasn't suddenly developed a discerning palate. Bai Jiu is still a massive seller and it's like paint stripper but tastes worse. They knock it back by the bucketful.

3. They claim the tax back

4. Have you tried finding a copper in China?

5. It's exactly the same in China. No-one had a car 10 years ago, now there's 330m privately owned cars on China's roads. I suspect not all of those drivers were formally taught to drive.

6. Air quality is awful in the north east and parts of the east coast, but only 15% of the population live there. Half of China is sub-tropical.

 

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, bbi1 said:

If someone has half Chinese blood but has a Western passport, does that make that person more important & higher class than Westerners or do they sit ranking in between the Chinese & Westerners? ????????

It's culture wars now, race is irrelevant. So did the western passport Asian adopt western values or is it full on commie v2.0?