Driving the car in violation of the yellow light signal

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, chang1 said:

It now also depends on how a camera is set up. What about the different stopping distances of different vehicles and loads? How slippery is the road surface?

How hard are you expected to brake to stop? If nothing is behind do you brake like in an emergency stop or are you allowed to keep going? 

You think I could have stopped, I don't, without risking a skid. Look how far I travelled compared to the person walking in the 2 photos. I can't remember exactly how fast I was going but on the form it said "speed - legal" so I presume speed was checked as well but maybe the same form is used for speeding.

There are too many variables to use cameras for this offence.

Next time you are driving, through a city, try stopping at every amber light if you have not crossed the stop line. You will soon see it can be very uncomfortable with lots of very heavy braking and remember to make sure no-one is behind you. This is not how anyone drives. 

 

No thanks, I normally take 1 second of red as acceptable, presuming I think there are no cameras there. It is the rules I am pointing out. And someone concluding from this discussion 'so I have to stop on green to avoid going through amber' clearly doesn't understand road rules.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No thanks, I normally take 1 second of red as acceptable, presuming I think there are no cameras there. It is the rules I am pointing out. And someone concluding from this discussion 'so I have to stop on green to avoid going through amber' clearly doesn't understand road rules.

 

Indeed... the rules are one thing, adopting to the Thai way of handling stopping on an Amber light (or not) is another and involves a healthy dollop of reality to avoid an accident. 

 

I've gone through a couple of Amber lights today.... only see about 5 cars follow me through, a few of those definitely passing through on red - I don't fancy surprising them and hitting the brakes hard.

 

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 4/25/2019 at 4:03 PM, richard_smith237 said:

In this case it would appear that there is an error in the Thai LTA, because, if it is illegal go to pass the stop line on Amber, vehicles would in fact be forced to stop on Green and predict the amber light, which would be quite a daft law.

This is not accurate. The law has already been posted here (more than once). It says quite clearly that if you have already passed the stop line before the light turns amber, you can continue on through.

 

It's only if the light has already turned amber before you reach the stop line, that you are supposed to stop.

[chang1]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

 

 

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

No thanks, I normally take 1 second of red as acceptable, presuming I think there are no cameras there. It is the rules I am pointing out. And someone concluding from this discussion 'so I have to stop on green to avoid going through amber' clearly doesn't understand road rules.

The rules say stop unless it is unsafe

Unsafe is different for everyone you ask and different for every vehicle in every different driving condition and driver ability etc. etc.

I now understand the rules, what is unclear, is how they are enforced by a camera. 1 second of red is going to get you a fine but how many seconds of amber will? And are there any other factors the camera takes into account, like speed or vehicle size?

Without any information the only way to ensure you won't get a fine is to never cross a stop line on amber. Impossible with normal lights but easy if there is a count down timer but it means slowing down or even stopping (in slow moving traffic) on green.

Edited May 3, 2019 by chang1

[wilcopops]

On 5/3/2019 at 7:09 AM, chang1 said:

"so it depends where the OP was as interpreted by a competent police officer." or a camera with set programming.

Cameras are very dodgy way of doing things, especially if in the hands of entraining personnel. Relying on cameras is just naive. Anyone with even the scantest knowledge of photography knows that the main purpose of a camera is to lie.

firstly th camera and all equipment needs to be calibrated and th road markings have to be pretty near perfect to show up correctly. Then one needs to take into account perspective and lens distortion.....in Europe this has been thought through and the road designs and positioning of the cameras are carefully coordinated to get a clear and accurate picture - in Thailand it is little more than an amateur digital snapshot.

Edited May 4, 2019 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

19 hours ago, chang1 said:

It now also depends on how a camera is set up. What about the different stopping distances of different vehicles and loads? How slippery is the road surface?

How hard are you expected to brake to stop? If nothing is behind do you brake like in an emergency stop or are you allowed to keep going? 

You think I could have stopped, I don't, without risking a skid. Look how far I travelled compared to the person walking in the 2 photos. I can't remember exactly how fast I was going but on the form it said "speed - legal" so I presume speed was checked as well but maybe the same form is used for speeding.

There are too many variables to use cameras for this offence.

Next time you are driving, through a city, try stopping at every amber light if you have not crossed the stop line. You will soon see it can be very uncomfortable with lots of very heavy braking and remember to make sure no-one is behind you. This is not how anyone drives. 

 

Any "camera" evidence should have had not only to show the line clearly and the speed of the vehicle but also the road behind and in front  - you'd really need about 4 cameras - then you have to time and calibrate the traffic lights etc etc....... it's much easier to accept the word of a "comment" police officer.....lets just hope he/sho wasn't short of cash at the time.

[wilcopops]

16 hours ago, chang1 said:

The rules say stop unless it is unsafe

apparently they don't

 

[essox essox]

On 4/24/2019 at 10:52 PM, richard_smith237 said:

The Thai Land Traffic Act very closely resembles the British Highway Code. 

 

In the British Highway Code the Amber light is an Instruction to stop before the line, if safe to do so. 

Thus, if its wet and there's a HGV behind you - don't slam on the brakes, it's not safe to stop. 

But, if you are not surrounded by traffic and the light turns amber with enough time to stop, you should stop. 

 

I don't think its illegal to go through an Amber light in the UK. 

However, the translation of the Thai Land Traffic act is not as clear... i.e. if you are doing 50kmh 5meters before the junction and the light turns to amber, it's impossible to stop, thus the fine could be harsh. 

 

Depending on your speed in the photo you posted - it looks like you may have had time to stop on Amber.

 

 

Section 22 o the Land Traffic Act.

Meaning of traffic light:

Green: the driver may drive the vehicle through

Yellow: the driver shall prepare to stop the vehicle behind the stop line. If the driver has passed the stop line when the traffic light turns yellow, he may go through.

Red: the driver shall stop the vehicle behind the stop line.

 

 

amber, if I am right means approach with caution and if safe to continue then do so.

Plus it shows that the light will, very soon, change to red so be prepared to STOP....

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, essox essox said:

amber, if I am right means approach with caution and if safe to continue then do so.

Plus it shows that the light will, very soon, change to red so be prepared to STOP....

You have a section of the law in the post you react to, but still manage to give your incorrect opinion what the law says.

[chang1]

15 hours ago, wilcopops said:

On 5/3/2019 at 6:58 PM, chang1 said:

The rules say stop unless it is unsafe

apparently they don't

Depends on who or what is judging whether it is unsafe or not and what information they have and actually use.

Edited May 4, 2019 by chang1

[chang1]

37 minutes ago, chang1 said:

16 hours ago, wilcopops said:

On 5/3/2019 at 6:58 PM, chang1 said:

The rules say stop unless it is unsafe

apparently they don't

Depends on who or what is judging whether it is unsafe or not and what information they have and actually use.

Been looking at the rules and can't find any mention of unless unsafe, as in the UK highway code. Maybe lost in translation, if not, what is the difference between yellow and red lights?

Edited May 4, 2019 by chang1

[chang1]

16 hours ago, essox essox said:

On 4/24/2019 at 10:52 PM, richard_smith237 said:

Section 22 o the Land Traffic Act.

Meaning of traffic light:

Green: the driver may drive the vehicle through

Yellow: the driver shall prepare to stop the vehicle behind the stop line. If the driver has passed the stop line when the traffic light turns yellow, he may go through.

Red: the driver shall stop the vehicle behind the stop line.

 

 

amber, if I am right means approach with caution and if safe to continue then do so.

Plus it shows that the light will, very soon, change to red so be prepared to STOP

No you are wrong, that is how every driver uses the yellow light. According to the translation of the law you quoted, yellow means, in reality, exactly the same as red.

Edited May 4, 2019 by chang1

[chang1]

32 minutes ago, chang1 said:

Yellow: the driver shall prepare to stop the vehicle behind the stop line.

I was prepared to stop but didn't as I thought I would cross the junction before the red light if I aborted stopping.

Just because you have to prepare to stop doesn't mean you will (or have to) stop.

If I prepare to overtake, check mirrors, indicate and start to accelerate then see it is not safe, I will abort the manoeuvre.

Here is the UK highway code rule

 

"AMBER means ‘Stop’ at the stop line. You may go on only if the AMBER appears after you have crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident"

 

A big difference and far more clear and sensible.

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by chang1

[wilcopops]

4 hours ago, chang1 said:

Depends on who or what is judging whether it is unsafe or not and what information they have and actually use.

No it depends on the Thai highway code as translated into English

[chang1]

10 hours ago, wilcopops said:

No it depends on the Thai highway code as translated into English

As I said in post #102.

[CGW]

On 5/3/2019 at 7:15 AM, chang1 said:

So you are saying it is OK to go through on yellow even if there is a count down timer to show you before it has changed? Then why was I fined?

I got a ticket a couple of days ago through the post for going through lights on yellow, don't remember the event as certainly never ran a red light!

This was in the area I live, wife went to police station to pay fine as was closer than going to bank, ticket was for 500 Baht, they "charged" her 108 Baht, discounted 392 Baht, I'm not even going to try figure that one out, same as their interpretation! - senseless! ????

Edited May 5, 2019 by CGW

[chang1]

That does seem very odd. Hope they did the paperwork properly and not just pocketed the money. 108 Baht would be an odd amount to make up, so sounds legit and why so much discount? We still have not paid so may give it a go if it is an option.

[chang1]

Well the wife paid up at a police station, no discount, just a telling off. I didn't go in as I didn't want to risk making things worse. No mention of the fact that she doesn't have a license.