Question on TM30 with no (living) housemaster

[TaoNow]

Here is my situation:  I live alone in the house my Thai wife and I built on land she owned in Bangkok. 

 

A few years back, she died suddenly, and had not prepared a will.

 

I took all the required documents to the local branch of the provincial court and, in a few months, was granted authority as "Administrator of the Estate of xxxx (my wife's name)."  That allowed me to access bank accounts, vehicles, etc., and even have my name added to the Chanote (land deed) on our two parcels -- (which, incidentally I could have sold; so that made me a de facto ex-pat land owner, as least for a while.)

 

However, the blue house book has no Chao Ban (house master) since the only other names in the blue book are our two adult children who live in the US.

 

During numerous 90-day reports since my wife's death, I have never been asked to produce a TM30 or TM28. 

 

My next 90-day report is on May 10. 

 

Given the new procedures regarding TM30 at CW Immo, what documents do you think I should take with me, in case they inquire? 

[oldcpu]

My speculation is your situation is a bit nebulous despite your success  in being granted authority as "Administrator of the Estate of xxxx (you wife's name)".  I'm amazed you succeeded in doing what you were able to do.   I assume you succeeded as your children are Thai citizens (even thou they live in the USA) and they are in fact now the owners of the land in which your house is built.

 

To avoid such complications, this is one reason why I insisted my wife and I purchase a foreign freehold condominium.

 

In your case, I speculate an approach could be to either:

(a) if land owner is now your children, and if they read/speak Thai, ask them to create account in Thai immigration database in the Internet for that property, and register you ASAP , or

(b) one or two days before you go to immigration, you check in to the most inexpensive hotel you can find (even if you do not stay there) and obtain assurances from them that they will submit a TM30.  And then when reporting to immigration, use the TM30 from that Hotel if asked for such.

 

Maybe someone else has a better idea ?

[TaoNow]

Yes, oldcpu, my children had to sign waivers to allow me to be the administrator of their mother's estate, since they had priority as direct blood relatives (Thayat). 

 

This is a topic for another thread, but the strange thing is, I cannot have my name inserted on the House Number document which would, in turn, enable me to be the House Master.  At the local land office I was told that, as a foreigner, I could have my name on the land deed, but only a Thai national could have their name recorded as the owner of the house which sits on the land.  Go figure!

[oldcpu]

6 minutes ago, TaoNow said:

At the local land office I was told that, as a foreigner, I could have my name on the land deed, but only a Thai national could have their name recorded as the owner of the house which sits on the land.  Go figure!

Interesting.  Well "This is Thailand" but if I had to speculate, I would say the local land office made a mistake and got it 180-deg reversed in error.  

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, TaoNow said:

At the local land office I was told that, as a foreigner, I could have my name on the land deed, but only a Thai national could have their name recorded as the owner of the house which sits on the land. 

According to my understanding, that is exactly backwards. You cannot own the land on which the house is built, but can legally own the house. In Thailand, this is rarely done as there is little protection for you as the owner of the house. While you can have a cast iron agreement with the existing owner of the land, protecting your rights, you have no such protection if the land is sold (even if you seem to have a clause in your agreement with the original landowner that seems to oblige him to ensure your rights remain intact after the land sale) the new owner could bulldoze your house and you would have no recourse against the new landowner. You would have a strong case against the original landowner, but good luck getting compensation. Most local land offices have probably never encountered the case where the owner of the house and the land are different, but there is no law against owning property (houses, trees etc.) on land, only against owning the land itself.

[Maestro]

6 hours ago, TaoNow said:

Here is my situation:  I live alone in the house my Thai wife and I built on land she owned in Bangkok. 

 

A few years back, she died suddenly, and had not prepared a will.

 

I took all the required documents to the local branch of the provincial court and, in a few months, was granted authority as "Administrator of the Estate of xxxx (my wife's name)."  That allowed me to access bank accounts, vehicles, etc., and even have my name added to the Chanote (land deed) on our two parcels -- (which, incidentally I could have sold; so that made me a de facto ex-pat land owner, as least for a while.)

 

However, the blue house book has no Chao Ban (house master) since the only other names in the blue book are our two adult children who live in the US.

 

During numerous 90-day reports since my wife's death, I have never been asked to produce a TM30 or TM28. 

 

My next 90-day report is on May 10. 

 

Given the new procedures regarding TM30 at CW Immo, what documents do you think I should take with me, in case they inquire? 

For purposes of implementation of the Immigration Act, including section 30 about the notification of arrival of a foreigner at a residence, the definition of the house-master given in section 4 of the Act applies to the house-master (chao ban  เจ้าบ้าน) mentioned in section 30. As officially appointed administrator of the estate you are the house-master, meaning the chief possessor in your capacity as administrator of the estate, which falls under "in any other capacity whatsoever, in accordance with the law on people act" mentioned at the end of the definition of house-master in section 4.

 

Therefore, you should fill out the TM.30 with your name and address both as the house-master and as the foreigner who has arrived.

[ubonjoe]

From the reports I have seen about Chaeng Wattana they will allow you to do the TM30 report yourself which is allowed as the possessor of the residence. No reports of needing a house book and etc.

[brewsterbudgen]

There's still a strong chance that you can continue to get your annual Extension without having a TM30. If you do need one it will take longer but all they seem to require is the form and the (reduced) fine.

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[zhangxifu]

Your name is in chanot? You can show that at immigration doing the tm30. Better register online though. That way you won’t get fined 800 thb. Reporting by mail is also possible. 

 

BTW, isn’t it just for a years time you are allowed to be the land owner as a foreigner? Isn’t the purpose to give you a certain time to sell the land, to a Thai?

[TaoNow]

Just an update:

 

I arrived at CW at 7:15 a.m. and received a queue number of 265.

 

By 8:30 I entered the Immo office and got my 90-day report queue number of A-29.

 

At 9 a.m. I was called for my 90 day report.  No issue of TM 28 or TM 30 ever came up. Finished by 9:01.

 

[Leaver]

On 4/30/2019 at 2:33 AM, zhangxifu said:

Your name is in chanot? You can show that at immigration doing the tm30. Better register online though. That way you won’t get fined 800 thb. Reporting by mail is also possible. 

 

BTW, isn’t it just for a years time you are allowed to be the land owner as a foreigner? Isn’t the purpose to give you a certain time to sell the land, to a Thai?

That's my understanding.

 

I thought a foreigner had 12 months use of the property whilst the land was either sold, or transferred into another Thai's name, or a company name. 

[brewsterbudgen]

Just an update:
 
I arrived at CW at 7:15 a.m. and received a queue number of 265.
 
By 8:30 I entered the Immo office and got my 90-day report queue number of A-29.
 
At 9 a.m. I was called for my 90 day report.  No issue of TM 28 or TM 30 ever came up. Finished by 9:01.
 

Good to hear that the TM30 requirement seems to have already been forgotten.

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[Maestro]

6 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

...At 9 a.m. I was called for my 90 day report.  No issue of TM 28 or TM 30 ever came up. Finished by 9:01.

Of course no issue came up. There is no requirement to submit a TM.28 or TM.30 every 90 days.

[onera1961]

My speculation is your situation is a bit nebulous despite your success  in being granted authority as "Administrator of the Estate of xxxx (you wife's name)".  I'm amazed you succeeded in doing what you were able to do.   I assume you succeeded as your children are Thai citizens (even thou they live in the USA) and they are in fact now the owners of the land in which your house is built.
 
To avoid such complications, this is one reason why I insisted my wife and I purchase a foreign freehold condominium.
 
In your case, I speculate an approach could be to either:
(a) if land owner is now your children, and if they read/speak Thai, ask them to create account in Thai immigration database in the Internet for that property, and register you ASAP , or
(b) one or two days before you go to immigration, you check in to the most inexpensive hotel you can find (even if you do not stay there) and obtain assurances from them that they will submit a TM30.  And then when reporting to immigration, use the TM30 from that Hotel if asked for such.
 
Maybe someone else has a better idea ?

What is freehold condominium? What it would be if not freehold?

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[Maestro]

31 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

What is freehold condominium? What it would be if not freehold?

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It's a British thing  See here:

 

https://hoa.org.uk/advice/guides-for-homeowners/i-am-buying/leasehold-v-freehold-whats-the-difference/

[brewsterbudgen]

Of course no issue came up. There is no requirement to submit a TM.28 or TM.30 every 90 days.

I think you meant to quote TaoNow's post, not mine.

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[Maestro]

5 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I think you meant to quote TaoNow's post, not mine.

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Correct. Apologies for the mix-up.