Local elections deliver Brexit bashing for Britain's May and opposition

[transam]

17 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Not sure if it was this thread or another Brexit thread where a poster noted that his friends had splintered into 2 camps, Brexit and remain, and, due to the amount of animosity between the 2 camps, they no longer associated with each other. It's a really sad reflection on how this issue has divided the country.

 

I have found exactly the same on TV, posters that I previously shared most of my opinions with and had the banter with, now abuse me openly without any provocation. Very sad really.

Not really, NOBODY agrees on EVERYTHING.....????

[Stupooey]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

 

I guess people voted for these M.p’s because they promised in their election manifesto of 2017 to implement the Democratic decision of the 

British people.

Tories promised it because their supporters seemed to want it.

Labour promised it because their leader wanted it.

The UK electorate chose mainly the same MPs, the vast majority of whom did not want it. Tellingly the one Ukip-held seat was won by a Tory remainer.

We all make mistakes, even political parties. Unfortunately they are too often reluctant to admit to them.

[Stupooey]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Talk about quick! Get off your horse there! You fail to mention the last GE in 2017 when both main party manifestos supported Brexit. If this 75% believed that it was in the UK's best interest to remain in the EU they should have damn well said so at the time! This 37% figure was produced from your horse's hindquarters. 

52% of a 72% turnout equates to 37% of the electorate. Fortunately my horse's hindquarters have a superior knowledge of percentages.

[nauseus]

10 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

52% of a 72% turnout equates to 37% of the electorate. Fortunately my horse's hindquarters have a superior knowledge of percentages.

And 48% of a 72% turnout equates to 35% of the electorate. So what is your point there?

 

 

[Stupooey]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

It's probably the biggest single issue that irks me about the whole debacle. In the run up to the referendum, no one really put up an impassioned opposition to the Brexit campaign. Labour were the biggest culprits, with the majority of their MPs and 65% of their electorate being remainers. Corbyn sat on the fence but it was clear that he was and remained a lifelong Brexiteer.

 

Who represented me in the debate, a lifelong Labour voter and remainer? No one.

The biggest stumbling block to getting Article 50 revoked is Corbyn. A traitor to his own party if not his personal agenda.

 

I firmly believe that if the Labour party had a credible leader when May called a snap election, we would have a Labour government now. If that leader had been a dedicated remainer, Article 50 would already have been revoked.

There are many reasons the referendum produced a freak result. A major one is that nobody expected it, which led to complacency and undeliverable promises. Another, as you quite rightly say, was Corbyn, who chose not to promote the Labour remain cause. It therefore became a Tory issue, leading to many voters, particularly in the more deprived areas of the country, to deliver an anti-Tory rather than an anti-EU vote. Many Labour constituencies who surprisingly voted leave are now firmly in the remain camp: the knee-jerk reaction when their MPs felt they were in danger of losing their seats has passed over, flawed 2016 democracy has been superseded by 2019 democracy. We hope.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

There are many reasons the referendum produced a freak result. A major one is that nobody expected it, which led to complacency and undeliverable promises. Another, as you quite rightly say, was Corbyn, who chose not to promote the Labour remain cause. It therefore became a Tory issue, leading to many voters, particularly in the more deprived areas of the country, to deliver an anti-Tory rather than an anti-EU vote. Many Labour constituencies who surprisingly voted leave are now firmly in the remain camp: the knee-jerk reaction when their MPs felt they were in danger of losing their seats has passed over, flawed 2016 democracy has been superseded by 2019 democracy. We hope.

The result might have been a surprise but it was the freaks who were the most surprised. There was no flaw in the democratic vote of 2016. All the flaws are in your posts.

[Stupooey]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

And 48% of a 72% turnout equates to 35% of the electorate. So what is your point there?

 

 

You're the one who seems to be trying to make a point. I just said that MPs were expected to abandon their principles because (on average) 37% of their constituents indicated that they wanted them to. I was making no reference to the 63% who either voted with them or were happy enough with the status quo not to register a vote.

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

You're the one who seems to be trying to make a point. I just said that MPs were expected to abandon their principles because (on average) 37% of their constituents indicated that they wanted them to. I was making no reference to the 63% who either voted with them or were happy enough with the status quo not to register a vote.

Your statement makes no sense and also infers that you are assuming that none of the 28% who did not vote at all would not have voted to leave. Ridiculous.   

[Stupooey]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The result might have been a surprise but it was the freaks who were the most surprised. There was no flaw in the democratic vote of 2016. All the flaws are in your posts.

By 'freaks' I take it you mean those who campaigned for Brexit and then ducked down behind the parapet when they realised they had opened a can of worms.

 

Many flaws in the way the referendum was run. For example, why were long-term residents of EU countries, who may well be forced to return to the UK should Brexit materialise, denied the vote? Too costly to change the electoral roll, after all why waste money when the result is a foregone conclusion!

[Basil B]

12 hours ago, bomber said:

UKIP were on the ballot paper for the vast majority.

To be honest I understand UKIP were only able to find candidates for one in six wards... but I assume they defended every seat they held.

[transam]

24 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

There are many reasons the referendum produced a freak result. A major one is that nobody expected it, which led to complacency and undeliverable promises. Another, as you quite rightly say, was Corbyn, who chose not to promote the Labour remain cause. It therefore became a Tory issue, leading to many voters, particularly in the more deprived areas of the country, to deliver an anti-Tory rather than an anti-EU vote. Many Labour constituencies who surprisingly voted leave are now firmly in the remain camp: the knee-jerk reaction when their MPs felt they were in danger of losing their seats has passed over, flawed 2016 democracy has been superseded by 2019 democracy. We hope.

????....

[Stupooey]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Your statement makes no sense and also infers that you are assuming that none of the 28% who did not vote at all would not have voted to leave. Ridiculous.   

Once again your inability to understand the simplest concepts leaves me flabbergasted. I'll try again. MPs were being asked to abandon their principles on instructions from 37% (on average) of their constituents. What the other 63% thought is completely irrelevant.

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Not really, NOBODY agrees on EVERYTHING.....????

But why such venom and personal attacks when they don't agree? I don't see that on non Brexit related threads.

[malagateddy]

But why such venom and personal attacks when they don't agree? I don't see that on non Brexit related threads.

Spidey..for a long time people like mysrlf a Brexiteer..have been called..thick..rscist..brain dead..selfish..fascists..haters of european people..etc etc etc.
Fact is...all I wrote above is LIES LIES LIES.
Perhaps some Brexiteers have had enough!!
Myself being a Glasgow man who is a Royalist and a Unionist gets rather " unkind comments " from posters who support/are membets of the snp.
I am not a " grass "..I do not scream Mods Mods..I patiently wait then " put the boot in big time " via posting.
Hope you understand now.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[nauseus]

23 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

By 'freaks' I take it you mean those who campaigned for Brexit and then ducked down behind the parapet when they realised they had opened a can of worms.

 

Many flaws in the way the referendum was run. For example, why were long-term residents of EU countries, who may well be forced to return to the UK should Brexit materialise, denied the vote? Too costly to change the electoral roll, after all why waste money when the result is a foregone conclusion!

Nope - I mean the remainiacs who thought it was a done deal.

[nauseus]

16 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

Once again your inability to understand the simplest concepts leaves me flabbergasted. I'll try again. MPs were being asked to abandon their principles on instructions from 37% (on average) of their constituents. What the other 63% thought is completely irrelevant.

Be flabbergasted then. If those MPs were so principled then I say that they should have openly declared that they disagreed with their own party manifestos while standing for Parliament in 2017? That is what is relevant.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, malagateddy said:

I am not a " grass "..I do not scream Mods Mods..I patiently wait then " put the boot in big time " via posting.
Hope you understand now.

There you go again. Why are you so blatantly obnoxious? You have accused me before of "grassing on you to the mods". Pure fiction. Don't you think that mods are capable of suspending you for posting foul and obnoxious nonsense without someone pressing the report button. I have told you before, I have never reported you. If someone attacks me, as you regularly do, I'm perfectly capable of defending myself.

 

You constantly refer to me as "bottler" and your latest, "black widow". Have I ever called you names? How old are you?

 

You should listen to yourself, just a sad little keyboard warrior. You have never made a sensible post in a Brexit thread, just an endless stream of nonsensical vitriol and the same childish memes repeated over and over again.

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Be flabbergasted then. If those MPs were so principled then I say that they should have openly declared that they disagreed with their own party manifestos while standing for Parliament in 2017? That is what is relevant.

How often do parties stick rigidly to their manifestos after being elected? Never.

 

Should those MPs have and ignored their manifestos? Absolutely. Remember, 65% of Labour voters, voted remain. Their MPs should have backed their constituents rather than towing a party line that they had no real belief in.

[malagateddy]

There you go again. Why are you so blatantly obnoxious? You have accused me before of "grassing on you to the mods". Pure fiction. Don't you think that mods are capable of suspending you for posting foul and obnoxious nonsense without someone pressing the report button. I have told you before, I have never reported you. If someone attacks me, as you regularly do, I'm perfectly capable of defending myself.
 
You constantly refer to me as "bottler" and your latest, "black widow". Have I ever called you names? How old are you?
 
You should listen to yourself, just a sad little keyboard warrior. You have never made a sensible post in a Brexit thread, just an endless stream of nonsensical vitriol and the same childish memes repeated over and over again.

Get a life for goodness sake..PLEASE.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

How often do parties stick rigidly to their manifestos after being elected? Never.

 

Should those MPs have and ignored their manifestos? Absolutely. Remember, 65% of Labour voters, voted remain. Their MPs should have backed their constituents rather than towing a party line that they had no real belief in.

If these MPs and parties do not stick to their manifestos then they can be fairly criticised then. Can't they? And what about the 35% of labour voters who want out?

 

Whatever, if prospective MPs want to go against their own party manifestos, then they should declare so before the vote.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

If these MPs and parties do not stick to their manifestos then they can be fairly criticised then. Can't they? And what about the 35% of labour voters who want out?

 

Whatever, if prospective MPs want to go against their own party manifestos, then they should declare so before the vote.

"If these MPs and parties do not stick to their manifestos then they can be fairly criticised then. Can't they? And what about the 35% of labour voters who want out?"

 

And have been after every GE that I can remember. Corbyn represented the 35% of members that wanted out. And who represents the 48% (allegedly a lot more now) of voters in the referendum who wanted to remain?

 

"Whatever, if prospective MPs want to go against their own party manifestos, then they should declare so before the vote."

 

Agree, but that would require them having principles, something that I see very little of in the HoC.

[vinny41]

36 minutes ago, Spidey said:

How often do parties stick rigidly to their manifestos after being elected? Never.

 

Should those MPs have and ignored their manifestos? Absolutely. Remember, 65% of Labour voters, voted remain. Their MPs should have backed their constituents rather than towing a party line that they had no real belief in.

65% of Labour voters didn't vote remain,  65% of Labour voters that voted in the 2015 General election voted remain which is completely different to 65% of Labour voters voting for remain

[Spidey]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

65% of Labour voters didn't vote remain,  65% of Labour voters that voted in the 2015 General election voted remain which is completely different to 65% of Labour voters voting for remain

Is it? In what way? I'm all ears.

[vinny41]

21 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Is it? In what way? I'm all ears.

The yougov link that you posted early

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted

Sample Size: 5455 UK Adults Fieldwork: 23rd - 24th June 2016

Voted in 2015 Labour Remain 65%

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/oxmidrr5wh/EUFinalCall_Reweighted.pdf

*Results are weighted to the final results of the EU Referendum. Those that didn't vote are excluded.

Edited May 6, 2019 by vinny41
added txt

[CG1 Blue]

10 hours ago, Spidey said:

The Euro elections have never been a reliable indicator of how people would vote in a GE or referendum for that matter. Expect an historically low turnout.

The Euro elections this time around have nothing to do with how people want to vote in the GE. Brexiteers will be out in force to vote for the Brexit Party;

 

a) to get as many anti-EU MPs into the EU parliament as possible so the EU are under no illusion what the UK representation will be like if we are forced to remain, and

b) to register our disgust at the government's / Parliament's failure to deliver Brexit. 

 

I agree with you that usually there is a low turnout for the EP elections. But after all that has happened over the past 3 years, you must realise the turnout will be much higher this time. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by CG1 Blue

[nauseus]

58 minutes ago, Spidey said:

"If these MPs and parties do not stick to their manifestos then they can be fairly criticised then. Can't they? And what about the 35% of labour voters who want out?"

 

And have been after every GE that I can remember. Corbyn represented the 35% of members that wanted out. And who represents the 48% (allegedly a lot more now) of voters in the referendum who wanted to remain?

 

"Whatever, if prospective MPs want to go against their own party manifestos, then they should declare so before the vote."

 

Agree, but that would require them having principles, something that I see very little of in the HoC.

Corbyn still only has one vote in Parliament. So criticise the unprincipled for being.......... unprincipled! 

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

The Euro elections this time around have nothing to do with how people want to vote in the GE. Brexiteers will be out in force to vote for the Brexit Party;

 

a) to get as many anti-EU MPs into the EU parliament as possible so the EU are under no illusion what the UK representation will be like if we are forced to remain, and

b) to register our disgust at the government's / Parliament's failure to deliver Brexit. 

 

I agree with you that usually there is a low turnout for the EP elections. But after all that has happened over the past 3 years, you must realise the turnout will be much higher this time. 

I don't agree with your opinion, but do agree it should be much higher if they are really as disgusted as tvf posters claim.

[nauseus]

26 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

The Euro elections this time around have nothing to do with how people want to vote in the GE. Brexiteers will be out in force to vote for the Brexit Party;

 

a) to get as many anti-EU MPs into the EU parliament as possible so the EU are under no illusion what the UK representation will be like if we are forced to remain, and

b) to register our disgust at the government's / Parliament's failure to deliver Brexit. 

 

I agree with you that usually there is a low turnout for the EP elections. But after all that has happened over the past 3 years, you must realise the turnout will be much higher this time. 

Agree except with your very first point. I think that the pro Brexit (Party) vote threatens the Tories and Labour in the next GE too, whatever happens before then.

Edited May 6, 2019 by nauseus
r

[Spidey]

43 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Corbyn still only has one vote in Parliament. So criticise the unprincipled for being.......... unprincipled! 

He has the power of the whip, and don't put it beyond him to make veiled threats to MPs. Momentum now control many constituencies. There have already been moves to deselect sitting MPs and parachute Momentum acolytes into their seats.

[nauseus]

12 minutes ago, Spidey said:

He has the power of the whip, and don't put it beyond him to make veiled threats to MPs. Momentum now control many constituencies. There have already been moves to deselect sitting MPs and parachute Momentum acolytes into their seats.

Well he hasn't has much success with it has he? Corbyn is as useless as the rest of his drongos.