Income change to 800k extension method.

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, smedly said:

ask at jomtien and see how that goes

 

exactly why these rules are nonsense - they are open to interpretation 

 

and it won't be clear how that is going to work for at least another 9 months

 

 

 

Your talking about this current year and yes IO's are supposed to be lenient because many cannot meet the full financial requirement for 2019, due to new and amended orders.

I'm talking about meeting the financial requirements for next year 2020, which was the question posed by the OP in the original post of this topic.

How to change from funds to income for his next extension.

[smedly]

11 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I do not agree with the new order in relation to the funds method for retirement extensions.

BJ made a complete hash of the requirements in my opinion.

I agree with you

 

But your interpretation is not how they are written - here is a brief on your interpretation

 

Funds in the bank for renewal (and what about first extension lol)

 

 

Must show a balance of at least 400k for the previous 12 months prior to application and also 800k for the 2 months before application and 3 months after last application - that is not how the rules are written and is precisely why they are nonsense - they have tried to solve something and made it worse 

 

The rules all refer to the current extension not a future one apart from the 2 months seasoning before and the full year of bank transfers

[smedly]

20 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Your talking about this current year and yes IO's are supposed to be lenient because many cannot meet the full financial requirement for 2019, due to new and amended orders.

I'm talking about meeting the financial requirements for next year 2020, which was the question posed by the OP in the original post of this topic.

How to change from funds to income for his next extension.

exactly - but if you have used the funds method this year and have not maintained a balance of 400k for 12 months and 800k for 3 months then strictly speaking you have broken those rules as they are written

 

Yes I know it is all nonsense and very poorly thought through

 

They should have left the rules generally alone and introduced the income method as I suggested above - everyone maintains a balance of 400k 12months a year and tops it up with either average income or a lump sum totalling 800k a year - simple

[Tanoshi]

11 minutes ago, smedly said:

Funds in the bank for renewal (and what about first extension lol)

For a first time applicant, the rules state must have 800K seasoned for 2 months prior to the date of application. Thereafter the 800K must remain in a Thai bank for 3 months, then half can be withdrawn but the remaining 400K must remain the bank for the remainder of the year.

Some IO's interpret the next part differently;

Some state the funds must be topped up to 800K again 2 months prior to the next application.

Others state the funds must be topped up to 800K again 3 months prior to the next extension, the 2 month rule only applying to first time applications.

 

21 minutes ago, smedly said:

Must show a balance of at least 400k for the previous 12 months prior to application and also 800k for the 2 months before application and 3 months after last application - that is not how the rules are written and is precisely why they are nonsense - they have tried to solve something and made it worse 

You've lost me on that statement.

 

23 minutes ago, smedly said:

The rules all refer to the current extension not a future one apart from the 2 months seasoning before and the full year of bank transfers

The rules and amendments took immediate effect, but with the proviso that IO's showed leniency this year for those who could not fully meet the new requirements due to the changes.

From 2020 all applications must meet the full requirements.

[Tanoshi]

21 minutes ago, smedly said:

exactly - but if you have used the funds method this year and have not maintained a balance of 400k for 12 months and 800k for 3 months then strictly speaking you have broken those rules as they are written

If you used the funds method for your extension this year, then you have to meet the full requirements for your application in 2020. If you don't maintain the required balances, then your next extension will be refused.

Some report they have to show proof of the 800K remaining in the account for 3 months after their extension is granted this year, my IO state they only check the balances have been complied with in order to grant the next extension in 2020.

 

26 minutes ago, smedly said:

Yes I know it is all nonsense and very poorly thought through

I don't think anyone will disagree with that.

 

27 minutes ago, smedly said:

They should have left the rules generally alone and introduced the income method as I suggested above - everyone maintains a balance of 400k 12months a year and tops it up with either average income or a lump sum totalling 800k a year - simple

They've never accepted averages, it's always been monthly for income method.

 

Slightly off topic, but for marriage extensions based on funds method the requirement remains unchanged, just 400K for 2 months prior to date of application, although wise to leave that untouched whilst under consideration until the extension is granted. Spend the lot after extension granted.

 

For the income method the amendment was to allow acceptance of Thai bank statements as proof of income, in light of the cessation of Embassy Income letters for 70% of the expat community. 

[smedly]

22 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

For a first time applicant, the rules state must have 800K seasoned for 2 months prior to the date of application. Thereafter the 800K must remain in a Thai bank for 3 months, then half can be withdrawn but the remaining 400K must remain the bank for the remainder of the year.

Some IO's interpret the next part differently;

Some state the funds must be topped up to 800K again 2 months prior to the next application.

Others state the funds must be topped up to 800K again 3 months prior to the next extension, the 2 month rule only applying to first time applications.

you are claiming that the above rules that you have stated will no longer apply to an existing extension attained by the funds in the bank - if you have been transferring 65k baht a month for the year since the issue of that extension based on funds in the bank - that is what your claim is - that is what you are saying your IO told you

 

and you are interpreting the rules that way also - it is wrong

 

If you got an extension based on funds in the bank - you must adhere to the rules you have listed above, even if from the date your bank funds based extension was approved you started doing monthly transfers - that does not negate the rules for your previous funds in the bank extension - what part of that are you not getting

 

honestly I give up - you interpret how you wish and I hope that works for you but be careful what advice you giving to others

Edited May 10, 2019 by smedly

[Tanoshi]

6 minutes ago, smedly said:

you are claiming that the above rules that you have stated will no longer apply to an existing extension attained by the funds in the bank - if you have been transferring 65k baht a month for the year since the issue of that extension based on funds in the bank - that is what your claim is - that is what you are saying your IO told you

 

and you are interpreting the rules that way also - it is wrong

 

If you got an extension based on funds in the bank - you must adhere to the rules you have listed above, even if from the date your bank funds based extension was approved you started doing monthly transfers - that does not negate the rules for your previous funds in the bank extension - what part of that are you not getting

Your using the words funds and income in the same sentence.

 

There are those who obtained an extension based on an Embassy Income letter this year.

Next year, they must meet the criteria for either funds deposited in a Thai bank for the qualifying period, or 12 x times monthly transfers.

Therefore the method of proof they used for this year and the method of proof for next year have changed.

 

Similarly I know expats who used the 800K funds this year, but don't agree with their funds being locked up for most of the year, so have changed to the monthly transfers in order to obtain their extension next year by showing 12 x monthly transfers.

There are other reports to that effect on TV.

 

We have an expat group and it has been confirmed by our IO that next year, even if you used the funds method this year, provided you show 12 times monthly transfers up to your 2020 extension application, no funds are required to be kept in your Thai bank.

 

Despite your differing opinions to mine, I suggest you enquire at your own IO as to the requirements for changing the method of financials. Only they can give you a definitive answer.

 

[smedly]

34 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

We have an expat group and it has been confirmed by our IO that next year, even if you used the funds method this year, provided you show 12 times monthly transfers up to your 2020 extension application, no funds are required to be kept in your Thai bank.

Let me add a few words to the end of that statement that clarifies exactly what you are claiming -

 

no funds are required to have been kept in your Thai bank for that past year on an extension based on funds in the bank

 

- that is what you are claiming based on the new rules

 

The rules state very clearly if you use the income method for a new 12 month extension that no funds 400k (9 months) or 800k (3 months) need to remain in an account post "that" extension renewal - everybody understands that including me

 

But that is not what you are saying

 

I think you are confused

 

My advise to anyone that has a new 12 month extension based on bank balance is to stick to the rules for that extension type - 3 month balance of 800k after approval and 400k balance for the following 9 months after approval regardless of how you plan to proceed with your next renewal - even if it is income based

[Tanoshi]

34 minutes ago, smedly said:

Let me add a few words to the end of that statement that clarifies exactly what you are claiming -

 

no funds are required to have been kept in your Thai bank for that past year on an extension based on funds in the bank

 

- that is what you are claiming based on the new rules

No!

No funds are required in your bank for the past year if changing from an extension obtained and based on funds this year and changing to an application based on income next year.

The only requirement for an extension based on income next year, is to prove 12 monthly transfers of 65K.

 

The requirement to keep 800K in the bank for 3 months after your extension is granted, then 400K, the 800K again applies to those who will be applying on the funds in the bank method again, the following year.

 

It is confusing, but I believe you've misinterpreted my statements.

Read the topic https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1099485-extension-of-stay-for-retirement/

Although this is the combination method, it clearly states no funds are required to be kept in the bank following the extension being granted.

 

The same applies if your applying for an extension based on income, no funds are required in the bank previous to the date of application.

[Tanoshi]

53 minutes ago, smedly said:

My advise to anyone that has a new 12 month extension based on bank balance is to stick to the rules for that extension type - 3 month balance of 800k after approval and 400k balance for the following 9 months after approval regardless of how you plan to proceed with your next renewal - even if it is income based

Your advice suggests locking funds in the bank and transferring 65K per month for 12 months.

Maybe some have money trees, others do not.

You'd qualify for either method on that basis.

 

We had a 3 hour meeting with our senior IO and a senior IO from the regional office.

I can't comment on your offices requirements, but can from the questions and answers we received.

You need to confirm the requirements with your IO.

[smedly]

28 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

No!

No funds are required in your bank for the past year if changing from an extension obtained and based on funds this year and changing to an application based on income next year.

The only requirement for an extension based on income next year, is to prove 12 monthly transfers of 65K.

 

The requirement to keep 800K in the bank for 3 months after your extension is granted, then 400K, the 800K again applies to those who will be applying on the funds in the bank method again, the following year.

 

It is confusing, but I believe you've misinterpreted my statements.

Read the topic https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1099485-extension-of-stay-for-retirement/

Although this is the combination method, it clearly states no funds are required to be kept in the bank following the extension being granted.

 

The same applies if your applying for an extension based on income, no funds are required in the bank previous to the date of application.

oh boy are you confused and confusing others

 

so I will repeat

 

My advise to anyone that has a new 12 month extension based on bank balance is to stick to the rules for that extension type - 3 month balance of 800k after approval and 400k balance for the following 9 months after approval regardless of how you plan to proceed with your next renewal - even if it is income based - do not listen to people telling you otherwise unless you have 100% confirmed this with you IO and even then be very careful if you decide to go this route and break the rules for your previous bank balance extension 

 

end of conversation

[smedly]

33 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Your advice suggests locking funds in the bank and transferring 65K per month for 12 months.

yes those are the rules for both your current bank balance extension and your future income based extension - both have a very clear set of "different" rules

Edited May 10, 2019 by smedly

[smedly]

34 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Maybe some have money trees, others do not.

my pension income continues regardless of my bank balance here or at home

[smedly]

37 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

We had a 3 hour meeting with our senior IO and a senior IO from the regional office.

that is fine if you agreed that in some remote office in northern Thailand - stop advising people in the rest of the country that this arrangement also applies to them - it doesn't 

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

yes those are the rules for both your current bank balance extension and your future income based extension - both have a very clear set of "different" rules

And you provide proof of one or the other, not both.

 

Read the original orders, then the new order, then the amendment to orders, they all state funds, OR, income, OR combination, OR Embassy Income letter.

 

[jacko45k]

On 5/10/2019 at 7:29 AM, smedly said:

If you have then completed the income rules for your next extension 65k x 12 then you are set provided you adhered to the rules set by your previous extension

Effectively, if a person currently on an extension based on money in the bank, wishes to use income the following year, it is a double requirement. At the time of the following year's application, proof of 65,000x12 months, and 400,000 in the bank, total 1.2 million is required. If all goes well, the 400k is then released. (Or does it end at the 10 month point)?

Edited May 11, 2019 by jacko45k

[smedly]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Effectively, if a person currently on an extension based on money in the bank, wishes to use income the following year, it is a double requirement. At the time of the following year's application, proof of 65,000x12 months, and 400,000 in the bank, total 1.2 million is required. If all goes well, the 400k is then released. (Or does it end at the 10 month point)?

yes, that is why these new rules are extremely flawed

[rott]

On 5/8/2019 at 9:44 AM, Boit said:

I used to be clear on this, but after reading these replies ... 

Do I need B800k for extending my retirement visa, or B400k? 

You need 800,000 to renew your retirement extension/permit to stay.