Once they get the Family tourist here things will be different.

I wonder what could attract Family tourist in the shithole that is Pattaya, no clean air nor clean beach and water, too much noise, no scenery.

The 2 days I've spent there were the worst of my 17 years in Thailand.

WOOW, The doom and Gloom men are in full swing, get a life you misfits from whatever country you eminate from !

Here in Patters now, great fun as ever, visiting an old G/F, (not a bar girl) before someone jumps in !

Feel safer here than walking the streets of my home town in UK, TREAT PEOPLE WELL , AND GENERALY YOU GET THE SAME IN RETURN !

Pattaya Great food yes

Good fun yes !

Cheap and value for money Yes

Do I feel threatened no

Would I move there ............. I have no need to ! Just on route to Aus !

And to the Guy that started this thread, a Yank I presume ? what next go inflict your shit on Cambodia ! God help them !

Don't expect Pattaya to "bounce back next year".

It's on a slippery slope to a ghost town.

Too much crime, too much corruption, too much xenophobic nationalism.

Sure, the bar/restaurant owners will get on here and talk up the town to try and protect their investments, but the fact is everyone here(who is honest with themselves)can see it dying a painful death.

I just wonder what the BiB are going to do now to earn(yeah right) a crust this coming slow season when we start moving out. How are those 5000 baht salaries looking without tea money now boys? You shouldn't have bitten the hand that feeds. Sum num naa.

Maybe you should wear your seatbelt/helmet?

I don't think Pattaya will die out like some people said but it is the corn hole of Thailand.

None of which puts real tourism numbers anywhere close to where they should be if the trends of the late 90's and early 00's had continued. The Thai tourism candle is sputtering and will likely go out soon.

You also fail to recognize that tourism is in effect a zero sum game. The only meaningful comparison is to whether provable Thai tourism increased in real terms versus other destinations.

There are only so many people in the world with the means to travel and they are competed for by all potential destinations, with only slight advantages to Thailand for it's proximity to the new money in the economies of Russia and China. Once those new tourists catch up to the rest of the world in terms of sophistication in travel tastes, they too will recognize what an overall poor travel value Thailand is in general and Pattaya iis specifically. But as long as the mailand Chinese are content to be herded like cattle and the Russians (and others) don't know any better, there will still be spurts of growth at times.

The flat numbers in 2005 were a result of the tsunami in 2004 more than any other cause. So of course 2006 was going to look good and there still would have been positive growth solely from the recovery before the coup, unless the coup turned into a shooting war which of course did not eventuate.

To bring the focus back to Pattaya and your link, the article said nothing at all about the purposes or itineraries of the people entering Thailand. Until you can demonstrate that those passengers are tourists and are going to Pattaya in significant numbers rather than other Thai destinations* your link and the argument you are trying to build around it have little merit in the context of this thread.

* (Or even remaining in Thailand! The irony of Suvarnabhumi as "Hub of Asia" is too much fun as it simplifies transits to Cambodia and Vietnam and will probably help promote those destinations more in the long term than any net benefit to Thai tourism.)

So you basically have no logic nor any concrete evidence to support your claims except for this bumbling verbal diarrhea? Also, let say a stock went down significantly two days ago, then yesterday its value went up 12.6%, does that mean that it's dying? Try to think about it, if you can. Also, think hard to see if it's logical to believe that last year's increase of more than 5 million visitors to Thailand (even after excluding all diplomats, Thais, people to Cambodia etc. from the number) would not spill over to Pattaya, one of the main tourist destinations in Thailand.

What a dilemma!!!!!

Pattaya is almost dead and the OP is packing his bags to leave along with many of his Pattaya bashing mates.

Do we put up black balloons for the wake, or do we put up multi-coloured balloons for the farewell party?

It probably doesn't really matter what colour they are, a party is a party and Pattaya is, has always been and will always be, party central.

So allow me to hold open the door for you departing sad sacks. We wouldn't want the door to hit you in the arse on your way out.

i have no beef with Pattaya, but i will say that having just spent 3 weeks in Sihanoukville, those beaches are going to give Thailand one hel_l of a run for the money.

WOW, good news for a change. Since the area is going to die, does that mean I may be able to move back into my Jomtien condo and NOT have to fight through hordes of tourists and horrible traffic?

Don't expect Pattaya to "bounce back next year".

I just wonder what the BiB are going to do now to earn(yeah right) a crust this coming slow season when we start moving out. How are those 5000 baht salaries looking without tea money now boys? You shouldn't have bitten the hand that feeds. Sum num naa.

Maybe you should wear your seatbelt/helmet?

Looks like they've already thought of something. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=110230

That's the way. Hit up tourists for a hefty fine for not carrying their passports with them. I mean, why spend their time preventing and solving crime when they can shake down tourists? It's a better earn, isn't it boys.

The last post on the thread we are directed to read by Mr Bitter and Twisted is relevant......what crack down ?

In addition does this law only apply to Pattaya ? peraps a troll ( yes just like certain folk on here...a troll ) of the Samui, BK, Phk sites may lead to te conclusion you have to carry in other parts of the LOS ?

Undercover, good try but in all the years I've been coming Pattaya I have never been in a fight. Geeeeezzzz I mean there is 4,500 bars to drink in, if some yobs want to take on the world I check bin and go the next soi down where it is probably much better fun most of the time anyway. I avoid this kind of crap and it is not hard to do, don't get mislead by the stories, if 60,70 and 80 year old men can avoid that crap I'm sure anyone else can too.

...................................

In all my time here I have never been in a fight either, I would do the same as you, check bin and moove on with the rest of the old guys, but my point is we never had all this trouble and fighting to have to moove away from. violence is part of modern pattaya.

Pattaya may be quiet at the moment but dead i don't think so.

I was at Gullivers last night and parked nearby where they are going to build a five hundred room Holiday Inn and that is just one of many many building sites in Pattaya.

I have noticed that there are far more couples, single women and families in Pattaya over the last couple of years

I think this trend is likely to continue.

The will still be the whoremonger brigade but slowly and surely there will be a demographic change with more of you average two week tourist as well.

While this place is cheap and that is the operative word there will be tourists.

i have no beef with Pattaya, but i will say that having just spent 3 weeks in Sihanoukville, those beaches are going to give Thailand one hel_l of a run for the money.

I was there 3 weeks ago and yes they are nice...but a run for the money?

With a ferry once a day and a road that you have to barge across a river 3 or 4 times?

No way. Lack of infrastructure. The good side is no McyDees or Starbucks and overall

wonderfull friendly people, subtle archecteture and like Thailand(but not cheaper overall)

cheap but good food and accomodation.

I don't see a real competition for at least 10 years.

Was there still a ban on foreigners renting moterbikes there?

i have no beef with Pattaya, but i will say that having just spent 3 weeks in Sihanoukville, those beaches are going to give Thailand one hel_l of a run for the money.

I was there 3 weeks ago and yes they are nice...but a run for the money?

With a ferry once a day and a road that you have to barge across a river 3 or 4 times?

No way. Lack of infrastructure. The good side is no McyDees or Starbucks and overall

wonderfull friendly people, subtle archecteture and like Thailand(but not cheaper overall)

cheap but good food and accomodation.

I don't see a real competition for at least 10 years.

Was there still a ban on foreigners renting moterbikes there?

no ban on motorbikes that i saw. it is a relatively easy 3hr. bus ride from Phnom Penh, the food was good, the service great, in general, and beers at 75cent a blessing. thailand twentyfive years ago. for those tourists who really want the beach and relaxation, many are already going to Sihanoukville, think the French. for mainstream tourism, yes, it will be a while. but they are proper beaches, and alot of it at that.

The good side is no McyDees or Starbucks

How can lack of choice be a GOOD thing? If you don't like either place, you don't go inside and you don't buy their products.

I'm sorry, but, people who think they are clever because they don't go to McDonalds are a real laugh!

As long as LoS has a solid supply of women to service Pty, the only thing that could temporarily cause people to bolt en masse is a series of severe bombings.

Let the US$ drop to 30, the junta decide to stay on another year, the locals escalate their rudeness and ripoffs, and the bib double their rounding up of tmoney suppliers, but Pattaya will thrive for as long as the provinces continue supplying the women.

Shock, horror...let's hear the righteous howling, but for every one that's motivated to coming here primarily for something other than booze and women, I'll show you a dozen that are here for cheap and plentiful supplies of the same.

Once they get the Family tourist here things will be different.

I wonder what could attract Family tourist in the shithole that is Pattaya, no clean air nor clean beach and water, too much noise, no scenery.

The 2 days I've spent there were the worst of my 17 years in Thailand.

Listen , you spent there 2 days and I can tell you a family could spend 3 weeks in Pattaya as a bona fide tourists and not explore all what is on offer to family people. The entire Thailand's family places piled up would not be as good as the places in Pattaya.

Two days stunts by social rejects and their whining is nothing. Their numbers in Thailand have decreased - thanks to 10 quid flights from UK shitholes into Prague and other new EU member states.

Don't expect Pattaya to "bounce back next year".

It's on a slippery slope to a ghost town.

Too much crime, too much corruption, too much xenophobic nationalism.

Sure, the bar/restaurant owners will get on here and talk up the town to try and protect their investments, but the fact is everyone here(who is honest with themselves)can see it dying a painful death.

I just wonder what the BiB are going to do now to earn(yeah right) a crust this coming slow season when we start moving out. How are those 5000 baht salaries looking without tea money now boys? You shouldn't have bitten the hand that feeds. Sum num naa.

I agree, Pattaya is slowly dying and anyone with half a brain can see that. All you have to do is look at the statistics from TAT and even just talk to local business people or simply look in the bars during so called high season. I lived there for a year in 03 and have been back a few times since and every time I have gone back it is quiter.

The fact tourism is way down in Pattaya over the past few years is simply because peolple have found other places to go. Crime is getting out of control and the Thais really have bit the hands that fed them and that can be seen through the attitude and the lack of respect they have for farang. To be fair I would have little respect for some of the farang in Pattaya.

Most peolple who are defending Pattaya on on the forum are either Advanced Members who are either ex pats who are there to long to want to face the truth, those with an invested interest in Pattaya or newbies who just dont know any better.

The chances of Pattaya making a comeback are slim and none, had great times there but between the farangs and the thais who have ruined the place it will never be the same again but I was glad I enjoyed the times when it was good there.

Most peolple who are defending Pattaya on on the forum are either Advanced Members who are either ex pats who are there to long to want to face the truth, those with an invested interest in Pattaya or newbies who just dont know any better.

No shit, Sherlock?

I agree, Pattaya is slowly dying and anyone with half a brain can see that. All you have to do is look at the statistics from TAT and even just talk to local business people or simply look in the bars during so called high season. I lived there for a year in 03 and have been back a few times since and every time I have gone back it is quiter.

Your first post, welcome. Too bad you are wrong on all counts though. Some people like figures so I will post the figures here for you: (printed in the Bangkok Post in 2006)

CLICK HERE

Now you have the figures and you can dispute the Bangkok Post if you like but that's the facts according to them. I choose the ignore what these papers or what TAT quotes, however I (like you) make my own observations.

In 15 years of coming to Pattaya I have found it getting bigger and bigger with more and more people. I have no business interests here so I have no need to bullsh!t about it. Yes during low season some bars are empty, but mate the ones I go to (the good ones) are still full. The next time I walk into Peppermint A Go Go and see the guy hold up the sign "Sorry Full inside" I will think of your comment, cheers.

In 15 years of coming to Pattaya I have found it getting bigger and bigger with more and more people. I have no business interests here so I have no need to bullsh!t about it. Yes during low season some bars are empty, but mate the ones I go to (the good ones) are still full. The next time I walk into Peppermint A Go Go and see the guy hold up the sign "Sorry Full inside" I will think of your comment, cheers.

From what I've seen and been hearing, there hasn't been much of a slow down. Friends tell me their bars are still full of farangs. New apartment blocks (built by Thais) are still springing up everywhere. Traffic along #2 Road seems as congested as ever (especially in the evenings).

Even where I am now, it seems the #1 holiday destination for people is Thailand. I've got people coming up to me almost everyday asking questions about where to go, where to stay and what to do. (For the most part, it would take a lot more than a bomb scare, coup and a few reports of muggings to scare away the people I work with here).

There are always going to be bars and other businesses closing during the "low" season. Many of those places are poorly located, and don't have anything special to draw crowds to them. Having one or two buddies drop by a couple times a week just doesn't pay the bills. I've seen some of those places doing poorly during the high season as well, for the same reasons.

Meanwhile, other establishments continue to do a brisk business pretty much year round.

It would seem the number of people that think Pattaya is "Alive" far outweighs the few that have declared it "dead".

There is a mini construction boom going on in Pattaya at the moment.

Tourism is alive and well in Pattaya but just maybe the make up of tourists is a little different.

There are plenty of Thais with money who have second homes in Pattaya or who come down from Bangkok for the weekend.

There are also lots of Asiam package tourists and Eastern European tourists.

THere may well be less Americans or Aussies but overall Pattaya will continue to grow.

Those predicting the demise of Pattaya have their heads buried in the sand.

Sure a few bars may go broke but so what the overall infrastructure remains and while it is cheap it will continue to grow.

I've only been living here full time for the past two years, however I have noticed that the number of cars and trucks being driven on the roads throughout Pattaya have grown substantially. I live on the east side of Sukhumvit and it is getting more and more difficult (and dangerous) trying to cross Sukhumvit to the west. Also, traffic on interconnecting roads such as Pattaya Tai and Pattaya Klang have slowed to a snails pace. You don't even want to be driving on Sukhumvit or any of these other roads when schools get out or when people get off work.

It is possible that tourism has decreased a bit in Pattaya, however I think that is true Thailand wide. With all of the trouble in the south, Thaksin's removal from office by a military coup, the worldwide press has not spoken well of Thailand and many countries governments are advising that there citizens to avoid Thailand. Yes, tourism has most probably decreased especially this past high season, but the total number of people living and working here appears to be steadily increasing in my humble opinion. I for one truly wishes that the traffic level would return to that of two year ago or better yet, even earlier.

I happen to love Pattaya and if I had to choose another place to live, I wouldn't know where it would be.

I do however, sense a change in the make-up that concerns me. The ratio of Thais, Burmese. Laotians and Cambodians to us Farangs is narrowing. As the farm subsidies have gone, now the rural poor will migrate to those Farang farms to get their share of whatever is left.

The only question in my mind is whether or not the number of tourists and expats can keep up with this influx. We are the major attraction here and lkely always will be.

Nothing can be done to keep this place from being over fished. The other squeezes on Farangs matter but IMHO not to the extent of the number of rural poor who have just arrived or will be arriving in the very near future.

The rise in crime is likely proportionate to this change

Don't expect Pattaya to "bounce back next year".

It's on a slippery slope to a ghost town.

Too much crime, too much corruption, too much xenophobic nationalism.

Sure, the bar/restaurant owners will get on here and talk up the town to try and protect their investments, but the fact is everyone here(who is honest with themselves)can see it dying a painful death.

I just wonder what the BiB are going to do now to earn(yeah right) a crust this coming slow season when we start moving out. How are those 5000 baht salaries looking without tea money now boys? You shouldn't have bitten the hand that feeds. Sum num naa.

I agree I have spoken to several Thai business owners here and its down about 50% on this time last year. Both high and low season. Im glad I dont own a business in Thailand >> The reason " Look in the news clipping section"

Once they get the Family tourist here things will be different.

Cheers Tony

Family tourists here ??? dont make me laugh. the place is a sh@thole. They could never clean it up enough.

Well I guess that's it. A couple of people that don't like Pattaya have declared it "dead". Time to pack my bags and head out to beat the exodus of ex-pats and tourists.

Wow. I wonder where places like Las Vegas, Atlantic City, Amsterdam and Rome would now if people had declared them "dead" at various times in their histories ? Maybe if we declared London, New York, Paris, Munich, Budapest, Rio de Janeiro and a few other places "dead", then the tourists would stop going there and the crime rates would drop, sleaze and corruption would disappear overnight and the quality of life for the residents would improve dramatically !

There's probably people in Acalpulco, Athens, Monaco, Ibiza, Costa Rica and other similar places whining about how those places are "dead" and people should avoid them.

Reminds me of the people who complain about a certain program on a certain TV channel. Those poor unfortunates that for some reason can't change the channel or turn it off, but are forced to watch something they don't like and then bitch about it. Tragic.

I wonder though, why do these people devote so much time and energy into trying to convince people that Pattaya is "dead", Pattaya has reached the "tipping point", Pattaya isn't safe for tourists/ex-pats, ect, ect.

Why don't they put some of that time and energy into finding that perfect place to live ? Where there is no crime, corruption or sleaze, where they don't have to worry about visas or taxes, where the weather is perfect year-round, where the streets are uncrowded, everyone obeys the traffic laws, the roads/water/power/sewage/telephone systems are all perfectly maintained, the exchange rate continually favours your home currency and vendors only offer what you want, when you want it ?

Wanna bet that if such a place existed, there'd still be people that would find something to bitch about it ?

Dont you get it ? everyone loves a moan or a bitch now and then. Yourself included in your own way. Lighten up. A little complaing now and then, makes the world go around

The good side is no McyDees or Starbucks

How can lack of choice be a GOOD thing? If you don't like either place, you don't go inside and you don't buy their products.

I'm sorry, but, people who think they are clever because they don't go to McDonalds are a real laugh!

Who said anything about being clever? I just have good taste!

I do believe that the "choice" here will affect CAMBODIANS health in a negative way...(as well as

foreigners, but they have a choice)

Processed, crap food is not good no matter what your taste buds say.

Starbucks could force out the delicious home-grown bakerys and coffee-shop.

Globalization can result in lack of choice. Or is that too clever for you?

How many Pattaya Sucks threads do we need anyway?

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Exactly but i suppose,if you tell something enough times,enough people will eventually believe it.(It's my second mention- see topic about Phuket)

The good side is no McyDees or Starbucks

How can lack of choice be a GOOD thing? If you don't like either place, you don't go inside and you don't buy their products.

I'm sorry, but, people who think they are clever because they don't go to McDonalds are a real laugh!

I do believe that the "choice" here will affect CAMBODIANS health in a negative way...(as well as

foreigners, but they have a choice)

Processed, crap food is not good no matter what your taste buds say.

Starbucks could force out the delicious home-grown bakerys and coffee-shop.

Globalization can result in lack of choice. Or is that too clever for you?

Are you kidding me? How is an expensive Starbucks going to force much cheaper "delicious home-grown bakerys and coffee-shop" out of business? Most people are not going to waste their money at Starbucks. If the bakeries are good, they will continue to thrive.

As far as processed food goes, most of us eat some everyday at home or in restaurants. Fast food restaurants are not the only place to buy it, and as long as one eats it in moderation - at home or at McDonalds - it won't hurt one's health and it goes down good sometimes.

Globalization should increase our choices as barriers come down. Imported wines and cheeses at a reasonable price. Fresh fruits and vegetables to countries that are too cold to grow them.

Is that too clever for you?

Too clever I guess!