Buying a townhouse

[LukKrueng]

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

A town house is usually on its own plot of land, not common property.

yes, but.... If you have a detached house you can take it down and build whatever you want. Can't do that with a townhouse / shophouse.

[Hanuman2547]

First off I would say don't buy, rent.

 

However, it appears you are set on buying so I would say don't buy a condo or a townhouse.  Buy a single detached house with a nice clear area around it on all four sides.  Yes, a house costs more but it is worth it especially if you plan on staying in it for quite awhile.  The house will be worth more than a townhouse or condo over the years.  The more you can put down on the house the better as it will be less you have to finance.  Of course the sooner you can pay it off by making extra principle payments will be better as well.  

[robertson468]

You are probably getting on to the market at exactly the right time.  There is a surplus of houses around Thailand because of the Government change in mortgage agreements.  I would also agree that Town House (which seem to be in a great excess) at best will hold their price or depreciate slightly.  However, selling it in time might be another problem!  It took us four years to sell one and got the same price for it as we paid (except it was fully air conditionedand furthished when we sold) , but it was hard work.  The Government is in a bit of a catch 22 situation in that they have made getting mortages more difficult, there is an excess of housing stock and they are (very) worried about the high rate of personal debt.

[xylophone]

7 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

It took us four years to sell one and got the same price for it as we paid (except it was fully air conditionedand furthished when we sold) , but it was hard work.

Well Avrock you have got a lot of information and truthful answers on this thread, which is not always the case when the buy versus rent property argument comes up.

 

Moreover you have honest posters who have bought and have stated that it has been difficult to sell the property and its probably not worth any more, or perhaps less after many years. In addition, just recently on TV I have read a few posts where expats have been unable to sell their properties even though they have been on the market for many years, so resale is always a problem here IMO.

 

I have bought two properties here and rented as well, so I do have some experience, but before I get onto that, just a point on your concern about how much you will actually pay for your house, given the length of time and the interest rate.........well it is pretty standard in just about any country that with the interest payable on the loan, and say a 20% down payment and a 25 year period, that you will pay more than double what the house price was. Variable across-the-board because there are variables within it, but that's a general rule of thumb.

 

I have to say that I am not in favour of buying property here because of the quality of the build, the depreciation, rather than appreciation, and more importantly for me the fact that anyone can build anything in close proximity to you and you can do absolutely nothing about it. This happened to a friend who had a huge hotel built right next to his freestanding property and it was completely ruined by this structure.

 

I bought two townhouses, one of which I never lived in but sold, and the other one I did live in and luckily enough I had good neighbours, but after I sold it, another nearby neighbour said that the place was full of bogans and bikies always having parties into the early hours of the morning, and again they could do nothing about it in reality.

 

There is one side of the argument which I do sympathise with, and that is that many folk have a desire to own their own property, on some land so that they can improve the property and grow things on the land and become a little self-sufficient and keep themselves occupied, hopefully away from any other plots of land which could be built upon and thereby spoil their potential utopia.

 

If this last paragraph is you and you intend to live there for a long period of time with your wife and family and perhaps leave it to them when you depart this mortal coil, then I can see there is a good argument for this, and one which I would subscribe to if I were in a different situation.

[Denim]

13 hours ago, Avrock said:

what I’ve come to find out is that these town houses depreciate almost every time,

Owned two in Nonthaburi

 

First paid 650,000 for 2 bedroom new build . Sold for 850,000 4 years later

No profit or loss since we spent about 150,000 on it getting a fitted kitchen and extension etc.

 

Second paid 950,000 for pre sale new build . ( had to wait 4 months for it to be finished ) Sold it 4 years later for 1,850,000.

 

Profit of about 700,000.

 

And of course , during these 8 years we were not paying for the rent of a house so big saving there. ( 7000 x 12 = 72,000 x 8 = 576,000 saved in rent )

 

If you are careful and swat up before purchasing you will not lose money.

 

Sold both within a month of putting up for sale. Didn't use agents just put a for sale sign and phone number on the gate.

 

I cannot stress how important research is if you want to do well with property. You really need to take your time and take a good look around within a 5-10 k radius of the location you want to live in. Consider flooding, schools , transport shopping, hospitals etc and research into whether the area is generally on the up or down. I spent about 4 months researching before we proceeded to buy.

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Denim

[poka513]

We live in a 4 bedroom townhouse near Chiang Mai Airport in a complex called The Clover. Five adults, 2 small dogs, 3 cars and 2 motorbikes. Cost was 3.1 million Baht plus another 600k to build the 4th bedroom downstairs, enclose our small back yard into a Thai kitchen, build built-in cabinets and furniture. We financed 1 million so my older daughter could get a credit history, mortgage payment is 7k Baht per month. Seemed like a good idea at the time (3 years ago), intended to pay it off after a year or so, but now I wish we had just paid completely up front. My 2 older kids (early 30s) build/remodel houses and have hit hard times with the slow down in getting new customers and I have had some financial problems of my own. We got 3 years free HOA, but now pay 9600 Baht per year, billed with 7 days notice 2 months ago (I was expecting to be able to pay each month, but no). Our unit is on the end of the building, so we only have one common wall with the 2 bedroom unit next to us and the owner lives in Bangkok so is not here much. We generally have good neighbors, although some partying at times and because of the renter turnover, first-come-first-serve parking can be an issue on the narrow streets (only 2 of our cars fit in our carport, our pickup parks beside our house on the street). There are still a few 3 bedroom end units which have never sold and there are also a few 2 bedroom middle units which were sold originally, but have been for sale (or rent) almost as long as we have lived here with no takers. Not sure if the slowdown we (friends and family) see in Chiang Mai is only temporary or how long it may last. I suggest caution.

[moontang]

12 hours ago, Avrock said:

A shorter loan period would be a priority. Loan won’t be a problem that has been cleared out.
How I look at this situation is when people indulge in real estate they’re looking for the value to go up with the passage of time. Detached houses retain their value. The actual value is not of the house rather it’s the land value increasing due to the development overtime.
Let’s assume
2M townhouse 7k rental value 30 years time
If I rent that property I would pay 2.5M with no ownership over 30 years.
In case of buying
I would pay around 3.5M including interest while the value of that townhouse has depreciated from 2M to 1.5 where I am losing 2M.
I hope what I’m saying here makes sense. But this is how I see it.


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if you are in a rapidly appreciating area, townhomes go up just as fast.  Townhomes near Nimman are up around 300% in ten years..houses in the suburbs maybe 50%.  You gotta evaluate the land underneath.  People were getting laughed at for paying 10,000 usd in the 60s for 4 meter wide row houses in Georgetown DC...now worth 2000000.  Dont forget that rent usually goes up..and if your mortgage is fixed, you are protected.  If you could get near an MRT you might have a winner..but say 2 million TH on the outskirts of Udon will likely be a loser.  A beat up one near transit will outperform a new one in the suburbs almost always..and that new one aint new after farang moves in.

Edited May 20, 2019 by moontang

[Avrock]

Well Avrock you have got a lot of information and truthful answers on this thread, which is not always the case when the buy versus rent property argument comes up.

 

Moreover you have honest posters who have bought and have stated that it has been difficult to sell the property and its probably not worth any more, or perhaps less after many years. In addition, just recently on TV I have read a few posts where expats have been unable to sell their properties even though they have been on the market for many years, so resale is always a problem here IMO.

 

I have bought two properties here and rented as well, so I do have some experience, but before I get onto that, just a point on your concern about how much you will actually pay for your house, given the length of time and the interest rate.........well it is pretty standard in just about any country that with the interest payable on the loan, and say a 20% down payment and a 25 year period, that you will pay more than double what the house price was. Variable across-the-board because there are variables within it, but that's a general rule of thumb.

 

I have to say that I am not in favour of buying property here because of the quality of the build, the depreciation, rather than appreciation, and more importantly for me the fact that anyone can build anything in close proximity to you and you can do absolutely nothing about it. This happened to a friend who had a huge hotel built right next to his freestanding property and it was completely ruined by this structure.

 

I bought two townhouses, one of which I never lived in but sold, and the other one I did live in and luckily enough I had good neighbours, but after I sold it, another nearby neighbour said that the place was full of bogans and bikies always having parties into the early hours of the morning, and again they could do nothing about it in reality.

 

There is one side of the argument which I do sympathise with, and that is that many folk have a desire to own their own property, on some land so that they can improve the property and grow things on the land and become a little self-sufficient and keep themselves occupied, hopefully away from any other plots of land which could be built upon and thereby spoil their potential utopia.

 

If this last paragraph is you and you intend to live there for a long period of time with your wife and family and perhaps leave it to them when you depart this mortal coil, then I can see there is a good argument for this, and one which I would subscribe to if I were in a different situation.

Thank you for your views on the matter at hand. I think I’ve gained some good insight through the replies on this thread. That was the purpose of starting it in the first place. The personal experiences of people can prove out to be very helpful in situations similar to mine.

 

 

 

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[Avrock]

Owned two in Nonthaburi
 
First paid 650,000 for 2 bedroom new build . Sold for 850,000 4 years later
No profit or loss since we spent about 150,000 on it getting a fitted kitchen and extension etc.
 
Second paid 950,000 for pre sale new build . ( had to wait 4 months for it to be finished ) Sold it 4 years later for 1,850,000.
 
Profit of about 700,000.
 
And of course , during these 8 years we were not paying for the rent of a house so big saving there. ( 7000 x 12 = 72,000 x 8 = 576,000 saved in rent )
 
If you are careful and swat up before purchasing you will not lose money.
 
Sold both within a month of putting up for sale. Didn't use agents just put a for sale sign and phone number on the gate.
 
I cannot stress how important research is if you want to do well with property. You really need to take your time and take a good look around within a 5-10 k radius of the location you want to live in. Consider flooding, schools , transport shopping, hospitals etc and research into whether the area is generally on the up or down. I spent about 4 months researching before we proceeded to buy.
 
 
 

That’s nice to know that amongst many who’ve lost a lot there are still people who were lucky enough to bend the situation for in their advantage. So in your case if the money for the purchase was not borrowed from the bank of course there is a lot of room for making your investment secure. For example one time payments cash/transfers get you good discounts. Then a slightly up & down in market value isn’t as big of a hit as when taking a loan from the bank having interests to pay. Did my research looked at almost 50 plus houses. Flooding can’t be avoided with the infrastructure here. But I think normal monsoons won’t be a problem.


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[baansgr]

Im all for buying but seriously the figures dont make sense. Dont forget upfront insurance, the interest rate seems very low for Thailand but if that's what they have quoted. More important, there are so many threads at present with guys being ripped off by their wife or girlfriend with bad debts, loan sharks, Thai boyfriends its stupid for anyone to buy in a Thai name.

[CGW]

13 hours ago, NanLaew said:

In the long term, be it townhouse, shop house or villa, it is cheaper to rent than buy.

Disagree, but it depends how you want to work the numbers.

[ThomasThBKK]

There's always the possibility to build yourself too ???? 

If you are in for the long term anyway, i would look into that if i was you.

 

Then you get a house tailored to your own needs and wants and can make sure the build quality is on par.

 

There are many here who went down that route, including myself.

[moontang]

there is a huge difference in moobaan type townhouses and shop houses on city streets...the latter will be a much better investment.  Oh, and 2m for a place that rents for only 7000...almost 24X....only if it is a very precious location....Thailand as a a whole sells for more like 16X.  

Edited May 20, 2019 by moontang

[Lacessit]

Given the current uncertainty with respect to visas, health insurance requirements etc. I would say the OP would be better off telling his Mrs. nothing will happen until some clarity is evident from Immigration. Buying property when one could be kicked out at their next extension would be one definition of insanity.

[moontang]

i bought this 400 sf house on 170 wah..7250 sf..while sitting at an internet shop in Chiang Rai in late 2010...paid 18,500.  I used data on the zip code, walkability, and value of lot..figured it was worth that without the house.  Nat gas, city water and sewer, and 1.2 km to light rail in Midtown Phoenix.  Guess what it is listed for at this moment?  Had to remove the bars for insurance.

[Avrock]

Given the current uncertainty with respect to visas, health insurance requirements etc. I would say the OP would be better off telling his Mrs. nothing will happen until some clarity is evident from Immigration. Buying property when one could be kicked out at their next extension would be one definition of insanity.

Although I do agree with what you’re saying a 100% still this uncertainty about visas shall remain the same & I don’t see it going any other way. I have been living in Thailand for 7 years yet every time I go for an extension there’s this feeling wether the immigration is going to pull one on me or not. So this thing we as foreigners have to live by if we do want to continue our stay here.


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[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Avrock said:

Although I do agree with what you’re saying a 100% still this uncertainty about visas shall remain the same & I don’t see it going any other way. I have been living in Thailand for 7 years yet every time I go for an extension there’s this feeling wether the immigration is going to pull one on me or not. So this thing we as foreigners have to live by if we do want to continue our stay here.


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I've been living in Thailand for 10 years now. This year is the first time I have felt the goalposts have shifted, and not for the better.

[Avrock]

The house is 30 talangwah.
3bed 3 toilets.
7km from future park Rangsit.
Big c teach lotus macro are at 3-5km
Schools hospitals nearby
It was initially bought by a Thai person for his daughter to move in but it never happened. So even though it is listed as second hand but just because no one lived in it is brand new. The owner bought this house at the listing price without a kitchen & security bars. He made the kitchen himself with marble top, tiled floors & walls & cabinets. The prices of the same style houses in the village at basic cost more.


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[moontang]

21 minutes ago, Avrock said:

The house is 30 talangwah.
3bed 3 toilets.
7km from future park Rangsit.
Big c teach lotus macro are at 3-5km
Schools hospitals nearby
It was initially bought by a Thai person for his daughter to move in but it never happened. So even though it is listed as second hand but just because no one lived in it is brand new. The owner bought this house at the listing price without a kitchen & security bars. He made the kitchen himself with marble top, tiled floors & walls & cabinets. The prices of the same style houses in the village at basic cost more.


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Rangsit?  Land prices too cheap, but should be interesting near the train stations.  If the lot is worth less than 1 m..i would walk..because that means they could build more and more of the same, right near you, making it difficult to compete.

[sandrabbit]

On 5/20/2019 at 7:47 PM, Avrock said:

The owner bought this house at the listing price without a kitchen & security bars.

Having to have security bars would make me nervous, we live in a low crime area in Rayong and the poor Thais in the street leave their kids bikes out etc. We see a few people with barred windows here but from what I understand is that if there is any crime the locals will know who it is or how to find them. My friend's apartment was broken into with his wife sleeping there and the police had the guy within 1 day. Stay friendly with the locals.

[BobbyL]

Interesting thread. We have recently changed our plan of buying a 2 bed condo into the idea of buying a house of some sort. We have been looking around Phattanakarn Road in Bangkok as there are many new build developments and the location is good for both of us. 

 

To the people who mentioned making larger payments off during the mortgage period, was there a penalty charge to doing so?