Immigration Crackdown - Need To Carry Passport?

[suiging]

Now if there was a threat to bomb Blackpool in the UK and the UK had similar laws to LOS in requiring some form of identification, you would probably guess that the UK authorities would ask for a check of all in the town. Now if the threat was say Middle Eastern, would the cops be allowed only to enforce the law on anyone who looked vaguely Arabic ? I think not.

There may well be a crack down on identification in the coming months for good reason. I am sure in the bars they are checking Thai ID's so why not check everybody else without fear or favour. They have a little problem in the South, which they hope will not turn into a big problem. For a time, if it means carry your passport to help with the effort...........do it.

[BigSnake]

WOW!! I wonder what the Fine will be?? Yet another way to discourage Tourists, a shame, but they are the power that be.

[tuky]

I remember a year or two or three ago a bunch of tourists were loaded into a truck and taken to IDC in BKK...reason? they did not have their passports with them and were discovered during one of the infamous piss tests. I think was after the initial closing time/war on drugs/reclaiming thai culture/Thaksin crack downs.

It was reported here on tv.com

This happened to two friends of mine (at the same time), though it was outside a bar, with no piss testing. They loaded up a bunch of guys without their passport and took them down to immigration (in BKK). Each friend had a copy of the visa page and information page - it was not enough, they wanted their passports. When they got to immigration, calls were made to girlfriends to pick-up the passports and bring them to immigration. After about four hours, and once their status was confirmed as legal, my friends were let go. Three others who were picked up still had not been able to produce their passport by the time my friends left and their ultimate fate is unknown.

If there is a law requiring you to have your passport or if there is not a law requiring it, good luck if immigration asks for it and you try to explain all the reasons you don't need it.

Yours might be the case I am remembering furbie.

[Acquiesce]

I remember a year or two or three ago a bunch of tourists were loaded into a truck and taken to IDC in BKK...reason? they did not have their passports with them and were discovered during one of the infamous piss tests. I think was after the initial closing time/war on drugs/reclaiming thai culture/Thaksin crack downs.

It was reported here on tv.com

This happened to two friends of mine (at the same time), though it was outside a bar, with no piss testing. They loaded up a bunch of guys without their passport and took them down to immigration (in BKK). Each friend had a copy of the visa page and information page - it was not enough, they wanted their passports. When they got to immigration, calls were made to girlfriends to pick-up the passports and bring them to immigration. After about four hours, and once their status was confirmed as legal, my friends were let go. Three others who were picked up still had not been able to produce their passport by the time my friends left and their ultimate fate is unknown.

If there is a law requiring you to have your passport or if there is not a law requiring it, good luck if immigration asks for it and you try to explain all the reasons you don't need it.

Yours might be the case I am remembering furbie.

Q Bar on Sukhumvit soi 11 if i remeber correctly.

[PeaceBlondie]

I looked in the wallet and saw that the faded, worn b/w photocopies only included my extension to November of 2006. I jumped on the bike and went to my favorite internet cafe, Buddy's. The counter clerk there made color, life-size copies of front photo page, visa to Thailand, and latest extension, all on the same page, which fits into the wallet nicely. The whole page looks authentic, though obviously a copy. Plus, I have Thai driver's licenses for car and bike.

If the police officer isn't happy with those papers, even a bribe attempt would probably fail. If I'm in a short-time room after midnight, drunk out of my mind, naked and belligerent, with no papers, I deserve whatever they choose. But fully clothed and sober, with really pretty color photos of the right papers, might do it.

[Lucifer]

I Think the rules of carrying ID documents are the same for Thai's and Farangs alike.

However, the Police find Farangs can cough-up 200 baht instantly.

[Furbie]

I remember a year or two or three ago a bunch of tourists were loaded into a truck and taken to IDC in BKK...reason? they did not have their passports with them and were discovered during one of the infamous piss tests. I think was after the initial closing time/war on drugs/reclaiming thai culture/Thaksin crack downs.

It was reported here on tv.com

This happened to two friends of mine (at the same time), though it was outside a bar, with no piss testing. They loaded up a bunch of guys without their passport and took them down to immigration (in BKK). Each friend had a copy of the visa page and information page - it was not enough, they wanted their passports. When they got to immigration, calls were made to girlfriends to pick-up the passports and bring them to immigration. After about four hours, and once their status was confirmed as legal, my friends were let go. Three others who were picked up still had not been able to produce their passport by the time my friends left and their ultimate fate is unknown.

If there is a law requiring you to have your passport or if there is not a law requiring it, good luck if immigration asks for it and you try to explain all the reasons you don't need it.

Yours might be the case I am remembering furbie.

Q Bar on Sukhumvit soi 11 if i remeber correctly.

There have been two piss tests incidents that I can recall hearing first hand - Q Bar and CM2 I think - which in the end netted people without passports. The incident that I mentioned took place by Thong Law/Emporium area if memory serves. But I have not heard of a recent episode.

One point to note, is that all of these incidents occurred during a crack down (though this was on drugs at the time) as it seems Pattaya is about to undergo.

[Acquiesce]

I remember a year or two or three ago a bunch of tourists were loaded into a truck and taken to IDC in BKK...reason? they did not have their passports with them and were discovered during one of the infamous piss tests. I think was after the initial closing time/war on drugs/reclaiming thai culture/Thaksin crack downs.

It was reported here on tv.com

This happened to two friends of mine (at the same time), though it was outside a bar, with no piss testing. They loaded up a bunch of guys without their passport and took them down to immigration (in BKK). Each friend had a copy of the visa page and information page - it was not enough, they wanted their passports. When they got to immigration, calls were made to girlfriends to pick-up the passports and bring them to immigration. After about four hours, and once their status was confirmed as legal, my friends were let go. Three others who were picked up still had not been able to produce their passport by the time my friends left and their ultimate fate is unknown.

If there is a law requiring you to have your passport or if there is not a law requiring it, good luck if immigration asks for it and you try to explain all the reasons you don't need it.

Yours might be the case I am remembering furbie.

Q Bar on Sukhumvit soi 11 if i remeber correctly.

There have been two piss tests incidents that I can recall hearing first hand - Q Bar and CM2 I think - which in the end netted people without passports. The incident that I mentioned took place by Thong Law/Emporium area if memory serves. But I have not heard of a recent episode.

One point to note, is that all of these incidents occurred during a crack down (though this was on drugs at the time) as it seems Pattaya is about to undergo.

The reason for the problems at Q Bar around that time was because the owner was refusing to pay the police tea money, so the police were trying to inconvenience them as much as possible and as regular as possible.

[Mobi]

I Think the rules of carrying ID documents are the same for Thai's and Farangs alike.

However, the Police find Farangs can cough-up 200 baht instantly.

Precisely - I was about to say that. I remember years ago -when farangs weren't targets of police harrassment that they used to raid coffee houses where girls of the night congregated, and arrest any girl who didn't carry an ID. Some, who had no money, were taken down town, but the rest paid up and were allowed to continue 'working'.

I think this is a load of fuss about nothing. In the UK, there is no requirement to carry an ID with you, but this isn't the UK.

In many countries there is such a requirement - including Thailand. The law is the law, and if they say you must carry a passport, then carry it.

Most Thais carry their ID's with them and don't go on about "Oh if I get drunk, I may lose it, or it may get stolen". Act in a responsible way, and there is no reason why you should lose it.

However, as this is Thailand, most of the time, a passport copy, or a Thai driving licence will suffice. But there are no guarantees. You know the law - you decide on whether you want to risk it - and to what extent.

[Jingthing]

This is a practical problem. A Thai ID is a small plastic card. A passport is a rather large paper booklet which often contains hard to obtain visas. They are not the same and don't carry the same consequences when lost, damaged, or stolen. My passport is valid for 10 years. It would not survive in serviceable condition if I carried it around for 10 years.

I have suggested this before and will again now. If the Thai authorities (if they INSIST) are going to enforce that all foreigners must carry their passports at all times, it would be a great thing to offer foreigners a PRACTICAL solution. Give us a way to buy an alternative ID card with a photo that is obtained by showing our original passport and visas to an authorized agent. This would not have to be immigration. They could be agents stationed at photo shops and the like. This would also create lots of wealth for Thais, a source of fees that didn't exist before.

Personally, I don't really believe this so called crackdown is going to be enforced for any serious amount of time. The reasons are obvious. The bad PR of arresting thousands of innocent tourists would be devastating to Thai tourism. However, if they are serious, avoid the bad PR, and make this easy and practical.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Jingthing

[tijnebijn]

In the eight years I stay in thailand I never have been asked to show my passport,allright once and just told them I forgot it,I mean not a big deal or what?If they really did get difficult ,i would have gone home and showed it too them.Like some members posted,it is very inconvenience to carry such a large thing around you all the time,just give me a small penalty then,until then when going around in the province I will just go on like the last eight years,until I got a bill one time,proberly will change my thinking then......In the north here they seem (police)to be more easy then everywhere in Thailand,cause I never saw something over the normal.

Maybe I am wrong ,or maybe it is if they like your face or not,some people always seem to attract problems.....

Or maybe many farang just stay in a too bad place...

[Axel]

Same to me, in over 15 years I have never been asked to show my p/port for no specific reason.

Still, I always carry it, tightly wrapped in a plastic folder, in my trouser-pockets. My p/port is valid for 10 years but usually must be replaced within 2-3 years being full and extra pages not possible.

Another ID would be a work permit, it is smaller and long time ago I 'tested' it for opening a bank account, they accepted.

Anyway, we all know the rules, everybody MUST carry an ID which is the same in many European countries. Thais do have an ID-card, which farang don't have. So it is the p/port. And, as mentioned, it is th location. Go out to some night-entertainment and the chances are by far higher than walkig on the street in daytime.

Best thing would be, if the Thai immigration could issue a ID-card for foreigners, as done in Japan and Hong Kong, for example. BAut this would only help those of us who are here on long-term visa resp. permissions to stay.

[COBBER]

This is a practical problem. A Thai ID is a small plastic card. A passport is a rather large paper booklet which often contains hard to obtain visas. They are not the same and don't carry the same consequences when lost, damaged, or stolen. My passport is valid for 10 years. It would not survive in serviceable condition if I carried it around for 10 years.

I have suggested this before and will again now. If the Thai authorities (if they INSIST) are going to enforce that all foreigners must carry their passports at all times, it would be a great thing to offer foreigners a PRACTICAL solution. Give us a way to buy an alternative ID card with a photo that is obtained by showing our original passport and visas to an authorized agent. This would not have to be immigration. They could be agents stationed at photo shops and the like. This would also create lots of wealth for Thais, a source of fees that didn't exist before.

Personally, I don't really believe this so called crackdown is going to be enforced for any serious amount of time. The reasons are obvious. The bad PR of arresting thousands of innocent tourists would be devastating to Thai tourism. However, if they are serious, avoid the bad PR, and make this easy and practical.

Perhaps they should bring back the alien ID card.

[guru]

There have been two piss tests incidents that I can recall hearing first hand - Q Bar and CM2 I think - which in the end netted people without passports. The incident that I mentioned took place by Thong Law/Emporium area if memory serves. But I have not heard of a recent episode.

One point to note, is that all of these incidents occurred during a crack down (though this was on drugs at the time) as it seems Pattaya is about to undergo.

The incident I remember being posted on here involved Sukhumvit Rd end of Soi 22 where a group of caucasian westerners were approached by immigration police and arrested for not having original passports. One of the group lived in soi 22 within walking distance but was not allowed the option of being accompanied to his apartment to produce it. If I remember correctly it was only because he had his mobile with him that he could make a call to his girlfriend who took the passport to the detention unit and only then was he released.

So if you don't carry the original make sure you have a mobile which is always recharged with power and credit and someone who is contactable who can gain access to your passport to get you out.

[Jingthing]

Does anybody have any experience or reports of what happens if you are arrested for not carrying an original passport on you AND also having no way of producing the passport except going back to your place yourself? Would they actually send you to the monkey house long term just for that? How long would they hold you? Where is Amnesty International when you need them?

Now I can see this would an inconvenience for the police. Compared to a long jail term for a small offense, not very balanced. However, it seems to me they could choose to be reasonable and send a cop with you back to your place, and set a price for this service. Again, a win win. More funny money from farangs and keeps us out of jail.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Jingthing

[scotsman]

If I am not mistaken The passport is not really your property as the united kingdom government can ask for the passport back if you have done something very bad. In the declaration that you sign when you apply for a passport it says that you must take very good care of the passport. So why would you carry it everywhere The risk of loss or theft is to great for me so I will have a photo copy & my Thai driving license if thats not good enough then i will pay the price. I will not carry my passport everywhere its not my property to gamble with and its my responsibility to take good care of it.

[Penkoprod]

I think this is a load of fuss about nothing. In the UK, there is no requirement to carry an ID with you, but this isn't the UK.

In many countries there is such a requirement - including Thailand. The law is the law, and if they say you must carry a passport, then carry it.

I think you will find that there IS such a requirement in the UK

Its just that they give you 5 days grace to produce them at a police station

Penkoprod

[Basil B]

I think this is a load of fuss about nothing. In the UK, there is no requirement to carry an ID with you, but this isn't the UK.

In many countries there is such a requirement - including Thailand. The law is the law, and if they say you must carry a passport, then carry it.

I think you will find that there IS such a requirement in the UK

Its just that they give you 5 days grace to produce them at a police station

Penkoprod

In the UK there is no official ID card system, so how can you produce one in 5 days?

What you are referring to is the requirement to produce at a police station your driving documents within 5 days when stopped or involved in an accident, this is farcical now because the police have access to the DLVC data base that can verify if a driver is licensed, insured and the vehicle taxed and has a current MOT test certificate.

The police need to verify a person is who they say they are and here in the UK we are debating the introduction of ID cards, personally I think there should be a national ID card but there would not be a legal to carry it at all times but banks etc may request it as proof if you are making sizable transactions.

There should be a national data base with verifiable data which can only be accessed by authorised persons, with today’s technologies it is possible for the police to use a radio which looks like a mobile phone so when the need to check somebody’s ID they enter that persons name and DOB and the computer with post a picture to the radios display.

At preset the police in the UK have every right to stop and question anybody who is acting suspiciously, committed a road traffic offence, etc, and will ask for name and address, if the police are suspicious that the information is false the may take the person to the nearest police station for the details to be verified, if the person gives false details they can and will be arrested.

BB

[Jimmyd]

Back to the original topic. I've been here many years and work here. I almost always carry my wallet with my Thai driver's license, but I keep my passport in a safe place. I'll take my chances on being stopped and bad things happening to me--so far I haven't heard of anyone with a Thai driver's license being thrown in the slammer.

In terms of risks, I rate this extremely far below being hit by a car in traffic, somewhere around the possibility of being hit by a meteor, and the consequences of being put in jail and perhaps even fined until things are sorted, are minor anyway. Wow, I'm a wild and risky kind of guy!

[midas]

Does anybody have any experience or reports of what happens if you are arrested for not carrying an original passport on you AND also having no way of producing the passport except going back to your place yourself? Would they actually send you to the monkey house long term just for that? How long would they hold you? Where is Amnesty International when you need them?

Now I can see this would an inconvenience for the police. Compared to a long jail term for a small offense, not very balanced. However, it seems to me they could choose to be reasonable and send a cop with you back to your place, and set a price for this service. Again, a win win. More funny money from farangs and keeps us out of jail.

I agree with Jingthing that the suggestion that huge numbers of foreigners are going to be

locked up long-term for failing to carry their original passports ( as opposed to good quality

copies which I don't dispute should be carried ) is too hard to believe -

particularly with Thailands somewhat slightly tarnished image following all the recent

negative events ?? Can you imagine all the Russians that are now arriving in Pattaya

being aware of this requirement - many of them cannot even speak English !

If there was such a potential risk of ending up in jail for not having your original passport

-then maybe there should be a warning printed in bold red writing on the arrival cards

( like they do regarding drug possession in Singapore ) warning that if you dont

carry your original passports at all times -you could be imprisoned ??

This would be an interesting news topic on CNN or Fox news - would do wonders

for tourism ........................?

[jeffrosner]

How ridiculous is all of this? Crackdown. What a stupid word. Are we children? I tend to think of the Thais as children as they rarely exhibit adult behaviour. Has there been another raid?

Really, what the Thais are doing, is not a crackdown but more like the old Gestapo used to do. It is all about control.

JR

[chuchok]

In many countries there is such a requirement - including Thailand. The law is the law, and if they say you must carry a passport, then carry it.

Most Thais carry their ID's with them and don't go on about "Oh if I get drunk, I may lose it, or it may get stolen". Act in a responsible way, and there is no reason why you should lose it.

Try carrying a new passport with an intergrated circut chip around with you every day and see how long your passport lasts.

[taxexile]

Most Thais carry their ID's

thats the size of a credit card and easy to carry around.

a passport is a different thing altogether and i think the hassle should you lose it will be more than the hassle of getting stopped by the police without one.

it would have to go in your trouser pocket , and would very soon be creased and messed up , that in itself can cause problems at some borders

a credit card sized laminated copy of the main page , with your current visa status and dates on the reverse should suffice 99% of the time.

[Jimmyd]

I tend to think of the Thais as children as they rarely exhibit adult behaviour.

Wow, the things people say.

[midas]

Most Thais carry their ID's

thats the size of a credit card and easy to carry around.

a passport is a different thing altogether and i think the hassle should you lose it will be more than the hassle of getting stopped by the police without one.

it would have to go in your trouser pocket , and would very soon be creased and messed up , that in itself can cause problems at some borders

a credit card sized laminated copy of the main page , with your current visa status and dates on the reverse should suffice 99% of the time.

I dont agree !! How can you read the details on a creit card sized copy ?

Surely it should be full size ?

[moo9]

I dont agree !! How can you read the details on a creit card sized copy ?

Surely it should be full size ?

I will carry neither my passport nor a credit size copy with me which is barely unreadable due to its size.

My 2 Thai driving licenses should be enough. I doubt that there will be any problem. It's a hype.

Many countries require you to carry ID or passport with you, but who really does.....

[taxexile]

How can you read the details on a creit card sized copy ?

thais seem to be able to read the minutest print , just photocopy the main page sized down by the photocopier by 50% , its easily readable.

[Basil B]

I dont agree !! How can you read the details on a creit card sized copy ?

Surely it should be full size ?

I have a colour credit card sized copy of the “photograph” page of my passport, I made this a few years ago and even though my eyesight is not as good as it used to be it is very readable.

My view is if Thailand (or any other country) wishes “aliens” to carry ID at all times then they should make available facilities for issuing temporary ID cards valid say 30 days, this could easily be done if Thailand was to introduce a system of doing the "landing" TM card online, you fill in your details that would normally be written on the TM card online and attach a recent photo that conforms to passport rules.

On arrival you go to the desk that issues the TM cards, you get a strip of paper that is perforated twice, the first part is a small piece that is adhesive on the back with immigration logo and bar code on the front, and this holds the second part which should remain attached to the first in your passport until you leave Thailand, the third is your temporary ID card, this should be stamped by immigration after verifying that the photo is a good likeness and you then seal it in a self-adhesive cover.

This could also speed up immigration as the immigration officer would not have to type all the info into their computer.

BB

[begsaresponse]

If you have concerns about loss or damage to your passport do what we have done and if you can scan the information page of your passport and the current visa page onto your computer...if you have one! Then if it is lost etc you have a copy of all your details. Hopefully this will enable you to get a new passport quicker?

[ZZZ]

Perhaps they should bring back the alien ID card.

Think they still have the alien ID card. This is issued by your local police station. Normally this is issued to tribes people up north but cant see why it could not be issued to a farang alien.

Having this card would at least replace the DL as a mode of identification but when it comes to the Immigration Police the only thing valid is a Passport, or maybe a copy certified by your embassy.

Maybe someone who can speak a bit of Thai could go down to the local copshop and ask?