Diesel generator 5-7 kVA Recommendation?

[bankruatsteve]

So, I'm ready to upgrade my 2 kVA Honda to at least 5 kVA diesel.  To me, it just makes sense to have a diesel engine for this purpose but if anyone has good reason to go with gas, please enlighten.  

 

I see Lazada has a couple with brand name "XYLON" and Global House has "BISON".  Anybody have experience to share with any of those?  I'm guessing these are Chinese brands and might well be a different name next month but those seem OK and priced lower than the "big name" companies.

 

I live in Udon Thani province so would not be interested in dealers outside this area.

[Crossy]

Make sure you get one that's key start AND stop, they sometimes come as "automatic ready" (or some such) with a socket for the remote start terminal fromyour auto transfer switch.

 

It's worth going for even if you don't have an auto transfer yet.

 

Also, if you can find a 1500 RPM unit (most are 3000) it will be much longer lived and rather quieter.

[bankruatsteve]

34 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Also, if you can find a 1500 RPM unit (most are 3000) it will be much longer lived and rather quieter.

That's to get 50hz, right?  I've read that 1500 rpm is "better" but almost always means 10 kVA or more?  3000 rpm seems like a normal "cruising" speed to me but I see where some say that makes a "throw away" product.  Is that really a big deal - or hyperbole and maybe not to worry?

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Is that really a big deal - or hyperbole and maybe not to worry?

 

In reality don't worry, if you come across a suitably sized 1500 RPM unit at a sensible price - buy it and tell us all about what your got and where.

 

Otherwise to modern 3000 RPM units are just fine, but don't skimp on the oil changes. Get an hours meter if it doesn't have one so you know just how much work it's done.

[twocatsmac]

Have a look at the range at Homepro in Udon Thani. I’m not saying buy from there but you can at least check them out physically as opposed to looking at Photos on Lazarda.

Some are only guaranteed for a year, I personally wouldn’t consider one of those, however they do have some good quality diesel units with better warranties.

As mentioned above please let us know your choice and how you rate it.

 

Also, if you do buy there get a member card for maybe 5 or 7% discount before purchasing.

Edited May 26, 2019 by twocatsmac

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, twocatsmac said:

Have a look at the range at Homepro in Udon Thani. I’m not saying buy from there but you can at least check them out physically as opposed to looking at Photos on Lazarda.

I would think that ToolPro would have a better selection along with the new layout at Global House, DoHome, Thai Watsadu

[bankruatsteve]

What I am looking for, hoping for, is any experience with the Chinese models in my OP.  I have found "selection" to be limited otherwise for the 5-7 kVA diesel.

[twocatsmac]

Curiosity got the better of me this morning and I called in Homepro and Toolpro. 

Only gasoline models in both stores, one year warranties at Homepro and two years at Toolpro. All are 3000 rpm 50 hertz.

5KVA units starting at 17,990 baht. Polo, Rowel and Welpro brand names at Homepro and Sakari at Toolpro. 

A poor choice to what I’ve seen previously and only gasoline models. The Sakari might be Honda copy engines but I still wouldn’t buy a Chinese motorcycle using one. 

[Crossy]

Global house have "silent" diesels 39,990 Baht for the 5kW unit.

 

https://www.globalhouse.co.th/product/detail/2422005400179

 

[bankruatsteve]

Aargh.  I went into Udon for my annual visa extension (10 min. done - no issues) and then went to the original Global with intent to buy a genset.  They didn't have the one Crossy showed (above) but had the other one that shows in Global online.  B41K something but the online shows almost identical specs for the two.  The more expensive one makes noise though.  Go figure.

 

Anyway, I asked about ATS hook-up and they had no clue.  I looked in the user manual and didn't see anything for automatic start - just the key operation.  I didn't buy since I wasn't sure.

 

Then, I re-view the ones in Lazada and they don't say anything about auto-start either.  (I'm sure I saw one somewhere that had an "ATS receptacle")  Actually, the higher price one doesn't show much of anything for specs.  When I translate the Thai of the cheaper one, it says "Maximum power 5000 watts for 380 V power and 1600 watts for 220 V lights".  Now, that makes me nervous.

 

Crossy, I recall you saying that if it has electric key start, it should be a no-brainer to hook up with ATC.  Is that right, or are there caveats?  Maybe back in to buy it anyway.

 

 

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

Crossy, I recall you saying that if it has electric key start, it should be a no-brainer to hook up with ATC.  Is that right, or are there caveats?  Maybe back in to buy it anyway.

 

If it's key start AND key stop there should be few real issues.

 

You will need an engine controller like this one https://www.gencontrol.co.uk/auto-start-for-hyundai-genset.html which can directly replace the key switch.

 

AND

 

An automatic transfer switch, there are many on the marked at assorted prices, some better than others. On a budget? then have a look at this thread

 

I too have seen "ATS ready" gensets (Hyundai IIRC) but, depite have looked occasionally I never saw another.

 

[bankruatsteve]

@Crossy I did follow your ATS thread when you first started it (impressive BTW).  My problem to follow you is that I don't have room in my cabinet for extra doodads nor a DIN box.  I am reluctant to fork out another B4000 or so to buy an engine controller along with the ATS.  If you don't mind saving me some research time, did your design have an engine controller and about how much was that to put together?

[Crossy]

 

Start here (should be Post #26)

It was designed to work with a gasoline genset but no real issues to adapt for diesel.

 

 

[Fruit Trader]

The Hyundai HD6500LDE is ATS ready. 

 

When investment passes 40,000 Baht one should also look at spare parts availability.

 

 

 

Same maybe

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Fruit Trader

[Crossy]

I wonder if that's a real Hyundai "Genertor"

[Fruit Trader]

8 minutes ago, Crossy said:

I wonder if that's a real Hyundai "Genertor"

Its a mystery why the red one is identical in layout.

 

Hyundai power products website but is it genuine...

 

http://www.hyundaipower-th.com/product/pro_cat.php?cid=35&cid_pr=35

[Crossy]

24 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

Its a mystery why the red one is identical in layout.

 

Many of these beasties, even "branded" units come out of the Chinese factories. The Hyundai one may have better parts support of course. 

 

 

 

 

And, as k-tel (remember them?) would say, "and many, many more".

 

[bankruatsteve]

I went to the Hyundai link.  I tried "Contact us" but in Thai and I'm not at the moment ready to tackle that.

 

Do you know where this unit is sold?

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, bankruatsteve said:

Do you know where this unit is sold?

 

I've seen Hyundai units in MegaHome.

[Crossy]

Of course, what you really need is this

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

 

I've seen Hyundai units in MegaHome.

Alas, I don't think have in Udon Thani.

[bankruatsteve]

Just now, Crossy said:

Of course, what you really need is this

50kW.  Right.  Maybe I can grid tie it and make some money?

[Fruit Trader]

15 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Do you know where this unit is sold?

https://www.europa.co.th/th/product/443664/

 

I would research the Global home generator Crossy posted. Check out spare parts availability as its not a bad price and appears to have many of the Hyundai features.

[bankruatsteve]

10 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

https://www.europa.co.th/th/product/443664/

 

I would research the Global home generator Crossy posted. Check out spare parts availability as its not a bad price and appears to have many of the Hyundai features.

They didn't have it at the original Global in Udon.  Maybe I'll try running down to the south branch.  Thanks.

[Crossy]

10 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

50kW.  Right.  Maybe I can grid tie it and make some money?

 

You wouldn't be the first. When the UK first introduced (very generous) feed-in tariffs for solar a number of stories surfaced about farmers supplementing their solar output with gensets running on their (un-taxed) farm diesel.

[Crossy]

Just been in MegaHome , Rangsit.

 

They have Hyundai diesel gensets (two types) both with ATS connectors. 

 

EDIT It would seem that the "S" on the end of the Model indicates the ATS option.

 

 

 

 

They also had a selection of Rowel gasoline gensets many with ATS connectors.

 

Of course none of the available staff knew anything about those connectors and whether they had the ATS to connect to it.

 

[Crossy]

This document has lots of diagrams, including the pin allocations of Hyundai 3 and 5 pin ATS connectors ????

 

ats_installation_manual.pdf

 

[bankruatsteve]

Aagh.  Global House.  I don't know whether to love or hate them.  The staff always very pleasant to me and try to be helpful even though most have no clue.  So today, I went into Udon Thani original Global and said I wanted the BISON  6500k diesel.  Wait a while to charge the battery.  OK.  Then it took the guy another 30 min. to install the battery (I have no idea what he was doing but he seemed to re-do things several times).  Turned the switch and it jumps up a little but that's it.  Another guy comes along and tells the battery installer that he's got red on the wrong pole.  Another 10 min.  Then another 30 min. trying to get the beast started.  It never turned over that I could tell - seemed like a fuel problem to me.  And they kept playing with some slider things that connected to the fuel line.  I asked what that was.  "Choke"  Huh?  I didn't think diesel engines have a choke. (?)  After a few minutes more, I could tell the battery was starting to drain so I said thanks but no thanks.  I went to the south Global and found the same unit without the welder kit for B2000 less so I said if you can start it I"ll take it.  Wait for the batter to charge.  No way - start it manually first.  I knew it wasn't going to go well when they tried to start it without the key.  It took them 20 minutes to find the key.  Then after 20 minutes of trying to start manually (and playing with the "choke"), I said thanks but I'm done.

 

I decided to go to Do Home and just get a gas unit.  They had 5-6 models all 6k and ranging in price from 12K to 27K.  The guy said the 27K one was "Italian" and had a "Honda" engine.  That sold it for me as my current 2k Honda has started 1st time every time and, except for a little cough when a heavy load comes on, worked flawlessly over the 4 years I've had it.  (Bought for 15K and selling for 10K so that's good I think.)  They started the display unit on the 1st pull and it didn't sound any more noisy than my 2k.  Then, when they pull out the box from stock (brand is WELPRO but the manual said nothing about Italy or Honda - whatever), I noticed they had some new arrival diesel genies!  Wait a minute - so I give the 6k a look and it even has ATS hookup (not the module - just the hookup.  The guy thought the module was another 6K baht but wasn't sure if they had in stock.  Looked like a good unit but with a 49K price and not sure if I would go through diesel starting torture again - I just went with the gas.

 

It's still in the back of my car at the moment - waiting for neighbors to get home to help.  I'll let you know how it goes once I get it set up.  

[Crossy]

I've had the above issues on several occasions.

 

Anything with an engine "don't test, if it won't start I'll bring it back", I trust myself and the instructions more than the ever helpful but invariably useless staff (after 20 mins of them trying to test a Honda brush cutter ...). We don't live far from the usual outlets but I've never had an issue, everything has fired up first time. 

 

Did the boys put oil in the engine?

Battery backwards - Fried electronics possible - No Sale.

 

EDIT No, diesels don't have a choke, they may have glow-plugs, hardly needed here. From new it may have needed the injector bleeding, a fuel issue.

 

EDIT 2 If it already has oil in the engine don't buy it, it may well be a customer return (didn't work).

 

EDIT 3 The Global staff had put 2-stroke in the brush cutter although it fired up fine when I got it home. The kill switch was set to "stop"  

I admit that I had noticed this within 10 seconds of them failing to start it, but as a "stupid farang" I don't see it as my job to tell them.

 

EDIT 4 From the Hyundai instruction manual:-

 

Quote

4.1.7. If the engine does not start after 10 seconds, wait 15 seconds before trying again. Excessive start attempts will cause the battery to flatten.

4.1.8. If it does not start after 3 attempts, or runs intermittently with excessive smoke check that the fuel system is fully primed.

4.1.8.1. Priming - before starting to prime make sure that there is fuel in tank and that you can contain any fuel spilt.

4.1.8.1.1. It is done by releasing the pipe clip on the diesel fuel line connected to the injector pump. Make sure you pinch the fuel line and then release slowly until all air is released and fuel appears.

4.1.8.1.2. When fuel appears replace pipe onto the injector pump and replace clip. Clear up any fuel spills before restarting.

4.1.8.1.3. The above may be necessary when new, or if the machine runs out of fuel.

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

Yah I made sure it had oil.  At first just a litten bit - they kept adding more during thier tries.  To me it was obvious a fuel issue - and so did they but couldn't figure it out.  

 

The neighbors came and now my new WELPRO is waiting for me to put wheels on and set up.  Looks good.  I'm happy so far.