Retiring to Europe (Portugal)

[snowballthecat]

On 6/15/2019 at 10:20 AM, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Some things are reasonable value and some are not.  A modern, well-built apartment for a single person (say 55 square metres) can be rented for about $400 per month.  Larger apartments for families are rather expensive to rent, houses can be very expensive to rent, and it's very expensive to purchase property or land.

 

So for me (single), the accommodation costs are cheap.

 

There are few taxes to pay, the main contribution being to the government pension and social fund, which is a fixed amount per month, regardless of age or pre-existing conditions.  If you're over 60 years old or nearing the 65 years old retirement age, there are ways to minimise your contribution, get a lump sum reimbursed or even opt out of contributions completely (once you hit 65 years old).

 

Food is as expensive or as cheap as you want.  Nowadays I model myself on a large fluffy rabbit... so I eat mainly vegetables, greens and fruit = cheap.

 

If I have to think of a disadvantage, then that is the lack of a nearby airport - the nearest being a few hour's drive away in France and Spain. There is a small airport at La Seu, just across the border with Spain, but it's mainly used by private planes - I don't think there are any schedule services.

 

When I was younger and lived in Andorra, I enjoyed the 'racetrack' drive down the mountain switchback road into France.  There are actually two adjacent roads, one for down traffic and one for up traffic.  So one could speed blindly around the mountain corners, safe in the knowledge that you wouldn't hit anything coming 'up'.  (That wouldn't work in Thailand, I'm sure).

 

In the Pyrenees region, Andorran drivers have a reputation for driving like crazy...

 

Your plan to go to Andorra now is very good. I would go ahead with the plan to buy some old stone house to renovate, in France or Andorra. 

 

I wouldn't worry to much to loose some students from China, at midnight!!!

 

It sounds as if you can find some school to teach "live" in Andorra, and this will enrich your experience. 

You can always pass your students to me, I will take good care of them!????????

 

You can still fly to Laos , every year, to spend-lets say- Nov-Feb and perhaps teaching also in Luang  Prabam? If you like Laos, why not to acquire some land and build something there,  in the future?

 

After all, you can keep one foot in each country , but only after obtained this government health care in Andorra. It sounds lovely, and more than lovely, considering the spiralling of medical costs all over the place....and the state of the NHS...at present.

 

Make full use of your dual EU-UK status and language abilities.

 

418 Euros a month for healthcare AND pension is not a lot! You can also opt-out anytime!

Finally, I can sense you have a sense of enjoyment and lust....(the way you describe your previous life in France, or that period in Laos). Wherever you go, Simon, you will be fine. Because it is Not the Place, it is you who "make the place" suitable and enjoyable. 

 

[youreavinalaff]

19 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

History has proved him right, sadly.

He is not 65 yet so will be claiming his pension in the future. In this case, history can prove nothing.

[simon43]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

He is not 65 yet so will be claiming his pension in the future. In this case, history can prove nothing.

In any case, having been out of the UK for so many years, it seems (upon checking), that I cannot top up my NI contributions.  One can only top up for about the previous 6 years, and I've been out of the UK for 18 years.

 

@snowballthecat, thanks for your sensible comments!  If I return to Andorra soon, I can still teach my afternoon and evening (Beijing time) students in daylight hours - it is only morning classes that would be in the middle of the night.  In any case, who's to know how long that morning teaching contract will last.....

 

To be honest, I don't really know which location to move to!  It was my 60th birthday on Saturday, and although I'm in excellent health right now, I need to be realistic and accept that this might not be the case in the future. I've lived in both countries and love them both, some for different reasons and some for the same reason (mountains, nature etc).

 

Andorra has the world's best healthcare, (according to The Lancet), and Laos probably has one of the lousiest.... (I experienced this personally in 2012 when I got a fever and worried that it might be dengue).

 

This online teaching means that one can choose to live almost anywhere in the world, and still earn a living income.... that means so many choices of wonderful locations to consider.  Portugal (the original topic of this thread) is also another option of course.

 

I need to clone myself or - as you suggest, have a little place in several countries and become a PT - perpetual tourist (again) ????

[youreavinalaff]

12 minutes ago, simon43 said:

In any case, having been out of the UK for so many years, it seems (upon checking), that I cannot top up my NI contributions.  One can only top up for about the previous 6 years, and I've been out of the UK for 18 years.

 

@snowballthecat, thanks for your sensible comments!  If I return to Andorra soon, I can still teach my afternoon and evening (Beijing time) students in daylight hours - it is only morning classes that would be in the middle of the night.  In any case, who's to know how long that morning teaching contract will last.....

 

To be honest, I don't really know which location to move to!  It was my 60th birthday on Saturday, and although I'm in excellent health right now, I need to be realistic and accept that this might not be the case in the future. I've lived in both countries and love them both, some for different reasons and some for the same reason (mountains, nature etc).

 

Andorra has the world's best healthcare, (according to The Lancet), and Laos probably has one of the lousiest.... (I experienced this personally in 2012 when I got a fever and worried that it might be dengue).

 

This online teaching means that one can choose to live almost anywhere in the world, and still earn a living income.... that means so many choices of wonderful locations to consider.  Portugal (the original topic of this thread) is also another option of course.

 

I need to clone myself or - as you suggest, have a little place in several countries and become a PT - perpetual tourist (again) ????

I have been out of UK for more than 18 years and am able to pay NI contributions to top up for a lot more than 6 years. You need to check again. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by youreavinalaff

[simon43]

6 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I have been out of UK for more than 18 years and am able to pay NI contributions to top up for a lot more than 6 years. You need to check again. 

That's what the UK government NI website said for expat class 3 voluntary contributions..

 

"You can easily make up any gaps in your payment record of National Insurance contributions for the last six tax year".

[sead]

On 6/8/2019 at 4:29 PM, stevenl said:

I have heard Rumania may be a good option.

Planning myself to stay in Thailand, so only hearsay.

Land if thieves and gypsies.  I would stay far away 

[madmen]

8 minutes ago, sead said:

Land if thieves and gypsies.  I would stay far away 

gypsies vs ladyboys? hmmm

[youreavinalaff]

23 minutes ago, simon43 said:

That's what the UK government NI website said for expat class 3 voluntary contributions..

 

"You can easily make up any gaps in your payment record of National Insurance contributions for the last six tax year".

That is 6 years once you have reached retirement age. Also, you are self employed. You can pay class 2.

[Mike Teavee]

11 hours ago, simon43 said:

That's what the UK government NI website said for expat class 3 voluntary contributions..

 

"You can easily make up any gaps in your payment record of National Insurance contributions for the last six tax year".

You can top up the previous 6 years NI payments then continue to pay them going forward.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's a shame you didn't do this a couple of months back as Expat's paid at Class-2 rates until April 2019 (Below are the top-ups I made in 2017)...

 

 

BUT even at Class-3 rates, each years "Top-up" gets you an additional 1/35th of the pension which at £168.60pw works out to be an additional £250 pa, Class-3 contributions are £780 so it will only take a little over 3 years before you net-benefit. 

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[simon43]

Thanks for those corrections to my misunderstanding about voluntary NI contributions.  I guess I need to get a projected pension statement, which firstly means I need to be reminded of my NI number, since I forgot it many years ago....

[Mike Teavee]

59 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Thanks for those corrections to my misunderstanding about voluntary NI contributions.  I guess I need to get a projected pension statement, which firstly means I need to be reminded of my NI number, since I forgot it many years ago....

If you don't have it on previous correspondence from HRMC (P45, P60 etc...) you can request HMRC to remind you off it... https://www.gov.uk/lost-national-insurance-number 

 

[simon43]

5 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

If you don't have it on previous correspondence from HRMC (P45, P60 etc...) you can request HMRC to remind you off it... https://www.gov.uk/lost-national-insurance-number 

 

In theory that sounds easy.  In practice, almost impossible!  They ask for start and finish dates for when one lived in the UK, and the same for companies that one worked for.  I can only hazard a guess at these dates... it's so long ago ????

[Mike Teavee]

Came across a site that focuses on retirement in Europe... https://www.retiringtoeurope.com/ 

 

They have a number of books available to purchase for specific countries, but also a 260+ page guide which covers most of the European countries that you can download for free 

[myjawe]

Someone of advanced age does not know if he wants to live in Asia or EU and I am the only one to laugh ? Really, I'm laughing even more now.

So funny.

 

[BritManToo]

15 hours ago, simon43 said:

That's what the UK government NI website said for expat class 3 voluntary contributions..

 

"You can easily make up any gaps in your payment record of National Insurance contributions for the last six tax year".

It's only worth buying years after 2016 anyway, because of the new pension rules.

So if you're 60 now, buy the past 3 years, then the next 6 years.

That's worth 40 pounds a week in pension payments.

Edited June 18, 2019 by BritManToo

[simon43]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

It's only worth buying years after 2016 anyway, because of the new pension rules.

So if you're 60 now, buy the past 3 years, then the next 6 years.

That's worth 40 pounds a week in pension payments.

Thanks for that!  I might try to locate my old NI somewhere, because I can't remember lots of the dates/information for the 'lost NI' form.

 

Oh - I put that <deleted> myjawe on ignore, since he has nothing useful to add to this discussion ????

[Mike Teavee]

41 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

It's only worth buying years after 2016 anyway, because of the new pension rules.

So if you're 60 now, buy the past 3 years, then the next 6 years.

That's worth 40 pounds a week in pension payments.

I'm trying to confirm this as in 2017 I backdated 7 years (6 years + 2017 itself) back to 2010/2011... and my NI Contribution Record now says I have 35 years worth, but my pension forecast says I need to contribute another 6 years... 

 

 

I did see an article on MoneySupermarket that suggested people (me) had been misled, I'll post the question in the UK Pensions thread where there are likely to be more people who have more knowledge of the subject (and might be able to advise whether I can get my cash back).

 

 

Back to Europe, the download  that I mentioned previously is very good & can be downloaded by filling any old information into the download form, don't even need a valid email address as it just lets you download rather than emailing you a link... 

 

Site is https://www.retiringtoeurope.com/ they have a Brexit guide on there as well but haven't had chance to look at this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

25 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

I'm trying to confirm this as in 2017 I backdated 7 years (6 years + 2017 itself) back to 2010/2011... and my NI Contribution Record now says I have 35 years worth, but my pension forecast says I need to contribute another 6 years... 

Years before the new pension scheme started aren't worth buying.

Nobody comes right out and says it, but no legit advisor will tell you to buy years before then.

Years after the new scheme started are worth 4.25/week for each year.

Edited June 18, 2019 by BritManToo

[observer90210]

Not to mention booze and meeow are much cheaper in those European destinations now then they are in Thailand...sounds amazing but it's true !

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, myjawe said:

Someone of advanced age does not know if he wants to live in Asia or EU and I am the only one to laugh ? Really, I'm laughing even more now.

So funny.

 

I'm not sure why you find it funny, I'm 53 & planning my retirement at the end of this year & can't decide whether to live in Asia (Lived in Singapore for 11 years + have a condo in Bangkok & had a house for a few years in Davao), Europe (Have worked in France + short term projects in Spain, Germany & Lithuania) or even LATAM (New world for me).

 

As somebody who (Financially & by virtue of not being tied/Thaid) down) can live more or less wherever they want to it's not an easy choice to make... Personally 

• Asia - Love living in Asia & have a lot of mates here (something I don't have so much of back in Europe anymore) but frankly after 11 years I'm wanting a change - I can always come back to visit for long holidays or even move back at some point in the future - Option to continue working in Manila (BGC, nice place).
• Europe - I like Europe, especially the warmer countries on the coast + I'd be much closer to my ageing parents - Option to continue working in Poland, would be interested but think it might get a bit cold for me
• LATAM - Only visited on Day Trips from a Cruise (Same with most of the Caribbean Countries) and would love to spend an extended period of time there so could move there for a few years to see if I like it & if I don't then I'll simply move somewhere else before I'm 60. - Potentially an option to move with work to Mexico, would be much harder to do than the other 2 but could be done.

 

 

Curious as to why you think it's funny, is it because you've limited experience of living in different places or limited options so you don't need to consider them  

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[seasia]

Hi

 

I also have put the latest troll on ignore, contributing nothing to what I am finding a very interesting thread.

Up util about 3 months ago, only had 2 posters on ignore, now 6, the last 4 all due to troll posts on "alternative locations " thread, 2 on JT s LATAM thread which I follow with interest, 1 here and one on another alternatives thread.

 

Anyway, back on topic am also considering  between Europe & Asia, maybe some time in Columbia, have never been.

 

Arrived in Italy yesterday lunchtime, next 4 months spending here, in the north.

Have been several times before but this will be my longest stay. Early days, see how I feel after 2 or 3 months.

Edited June 18, 2019 by seasia

[simon43]

My indecision about whether to settle is wholly to blame on my employment - online teaching, (as opposed to in-class teaching that I previously did), means that I'm not geographically-restricted to any one location.  As long as the visa/cost-of-living requirements are OK, then I can go live there.

 

Right now, I am only considering 2 countries where I have previously lived and worked ==> Laos and Andorra.  But I have also lived in France, Spain, Greece and Myanmar.  So it's no wonder my head is spinning ????

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, seasia said:

Arrived in Italy yesterday lunchtime, next 4 months spending here, in the north.

How's the weather?

[seasia]

Just now, BritManToo said:

How's the weather?

Nice, out of Milan ( MXP ) airport was greeted with sunny skies, a little cloud and about 26 C. This at about 11.30 AM.

I am now about 70 kms north of Milan, bright skies although it did rain overnight and was a bit drizzly early morning.

 

Lovely now and last night was sitting outside around 9.30 PM, glass of wine of course,just relaxing and  still a little bit of natural light left.

Not even chilly.

Spring to autumn here might suit me.

[GalaxyMan]

12 hours ago, seasia said:

Nice, out of Milan ( MXP ) airport was greeted with sunny skies, a little cloud and about 26 C. This at about 11.30 AM.

I am now about 70 kms north of Milan, bright skies although it did rain overnight and was a bit drizzly early morning.

 

Lovely now and last night was sitting outside around 9.30 PM, glass of wine of course,just relaxing and  still a little bit of natural light left.

Not even chilly.

Spring to autumn here might suit me.

I was in Milan a few years ago and it was 50% Chinese, it seemed. Really sucked. Big dollar Chinese, too, all with the latest fashion accoutrements.

[simon43]

One important consideration when choosing one's retirement destination is availability of good medical services, since no-one gets any younger.

 

In that respect, choosing between the world-class medical facilities of Andorra ad the diabolical facilities in Laos should be a 'no-brainer'.

[GalaxyMan]

33 minutes ago, simon43 said:

One important consideration when choosing one's retirement destination is availability of good medical services, since no-one gets any younger.

 

In that respect, choosing between the world-class medical facilities of Andorra ad the diabolical facilities in Laos should be a 'no-brainer'.

That was a big negative in Portugal. Unless you are very lucky, your chances of finding a competent doctor for just about anything aren't good. The Algarve is probably the worst. It seems that the dregs of the medical profession end up there when they can't get work anywhere else.

[seasia]

Just now, GalaxyMan said:

That was a big negative in Portugal. Unless you are very lucky, your chances of finding a competent doctor for just about anything aren't good. The Algarve is probably the worst. It seems that the dregs of the medical profession end up there when they can't get work anywhere else.

OK

 

Portugal ranked no 12 in the world by WHO.

 

Far higher than Thailand.

[seasia]

Just now, GalaxyMan said:

I was in Milan a few years ago and it was 50% Chinese, it seemed. Really sucked. Big dollar Chinese, too, all with the latest fashion accoutrements.

I am not staying in Milan, just used the airport.. Have visited Milan a few times,Italy as a country is the 5th most popular in the world for tourists( France no.1, Spain no. 2 ) Never seen Milan as 50 % Chinese but yes, it is a big money city as well as a fashion leader.

No interest in fashion myself and would not want to live in Milan. Costs are sky high ( accomodation )

 

[GalaxyMan]

Don't get me wrong, I love Italy. It's probably in my top 5 or 6 countries in terms of the amount of time I've spent there. But because of that, I also know the reality of Italy. I'd never live there, but will always be happy to visit.